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Given the authors, this certainly looks cool...
...but...
I had the old Castle Greyhawk adventure for 2E (or possibly even 1E), and while it was funny to read, it was not runable. I still resent the DM who tried to run it as a serious adventure.
Just tell me this one is a real adventure and not a string of unconnected inside jokes.
Craig Shackleton,
The Rambling Scribe
Given the authors, this certainly looks cool...
...but...
I had the old Castle Greyhawk adventure for 2E (or possibly even 1E), and while it was funny to read, it was not runable. I still resent the DM who tried to run it as a serious adventure.
Just tell me this one is a real adventure and not a string of unconnected inside jokes.
Craig Shackleton,
The Rambling Scribe
I don't think you have anything to worry about. The jokey WGR7 Castle Greyhawk was not part of our research for this adventure.
Jason Bulmahn
I'd love to get an autographed copy, but the overseas shipping is $21.50! Why is it so high, compared with the Pathfinder shipping?
One reason is that we had an estimated shipping weight for that product that was too high—I've corrected it, so you'll probably get a lower quote now.
Nevertheless, Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk is a much bigger book than Pathfinder (Expedition has more than twice as many pages, and is a hardcover.) Pathfinder weighs in under a pound, while Expedition is nearly two pounds, and that's a significant difference to shipping companies.
Unfortunately, no. However, the three authors Wizards did choose to write it bent over backwards to not invalidate material written by those two pillars of the setting and the industry. We tried to do our best by them.
If you want Gygax and Kuntz, I suggest Troll Lords's "Castle Zagyg" and some of the self-published stuff Rob is doing with his own outfit, Pied Piper.
I will absolutely buy the new Expedition to Greyhawk Ruins book. I had not decided whether to buy Gygax's Castle Zagyg book, owing to the fact that I did not know if it is 3.5/d20 material or some other type of Game System. Anyone know what game system Gygax's book is "written in"???
No word on that product my friend. However, I am definitely getting this bad boy, if nothing else to get it in advance of WoTC once again torpedoing the WoG for another decade or so ...
What is it about Delve that you don't like? I'm just curious.
It seems to take up so much more room that it feels like you are getting a much smaller adventure than you paid for. I get a beautifully rendered map for each encounter that I can't show my players because it has DM info on it... same of hand drawn on a battle mat for them. It just adds very little IMO and takes up a ton more room. I was unimpressed with the format.
I am curious about this product due to the authors but am wary of something that is traditionally a dungeon delve with little RP opportunity (like I would be with Undermountain). On the other hand Red Hand of Doom was phenominal... so... what type of adventure is this one? Is it primarily a dungeon delve or is there a good deal of RP?
Sean Mahoney
I've just had a chance to look through the PDF of this adventue, and while yes it DOES use the Delve format... there's a LOT of roleplay-themed encounters in there as well. Several of the battles can actually be solved before they hit initiative if you've got some good social skill characters, and the first chapter (which is quite sizable) has, I believe, only one combat encounter in it: it's mostly RP encounters and details on the city of Greyhawk and the locations that figure prominently.
Personally, I prefer Dungeon's (or Red Hand of Doom's) adventure presentation style because the Delve format, while great for running encounters, is indeed a space hog and does limit the type of combat encounters in certain ways (you can't really have the classic evil adventuring party encounter, since there's no room for four NPC stat blocks, for example). But that said, it's also really cool at encouraging authors to come up with combats that are actually interesting and memorable, rather than just a fight with 4 ghouls in a ten-foot-square room.
Anyway, in closing, yeah. Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk is primarilly a dungeon crawl, but there's a LOT of roleplaying stuff in there as well. And plus... if you're a fan of Greyhawk, the sheer amount of Greyhawk goodness and easter eggs we were able to fit into the advenutre is kind of staggering to me even now... :-)
I also do not like the way some delve adventures are formatted - Barrow of the Forgotten King comes to mind - where you have to flip back and forth from the encounter description and the numbered map key descriptions. I like to read adventures like a book, not as a set of rules for a board game. :(
EDIT - That's encouraging James! Our group is very jazzed to play it...
What is it about Delve that you don't like? I'm just curious.It seems to take up so much more room that it feels like you are getting a much smaller adventure than you paid for. I get a beautifully rendered map for each encounter that I can't show my players because it has DM info on it... same of hand drawn on a battle mat for them. It just adds very little IMO and takes up a ton more room. I was unimpressed with the format.
I am curious about this product due to the authors but am wary of something that is traditionally a dungeon delve with little RP opportunity (like I would be with Undermountain). On the other hand Red Hand of Doom was phenominal... so... what type of adventure is this one? Is it primarily a dungeon delve or is there a good deal of RP?
Sean Mahoney
Taking another look at a couple newer adventures (using the Delve format) I see what you mean. I didn't really notice before because I ran the adventures off my personal notes and photocopies from the books, but I can see now how frustrating it could be to run Ravenloft or Cormyr from the HC book.
I have to admit I would not have bought this if it wasn't for (a) the Greyhawk Ruins in 3.5 ? w00t!! ,and (b) that is has John Hancocks on it, I wouldn't have touched it. The "delve format" sucks eggs.
The Red Hand of Doom format was the easiest to run I've come across in all these years (25) of playing. The Delve Format is going to be a pain in the kiester to run... I am so not looking forward to having to heavily annotate things, make copies etc. The format makes it very difficult, if not impossible, for me to just pick it up and run it like I could with the RHoD.
I get a module in order to be able to sit down, skim through it and then be able to run it as I go. The delve format torpedoes that concept.
I'll have to admit that I despise the Delve format (if that is the format that the newest Castle Ravenloft is in). I hate using miniatures, so the format doesn't help me one bit. It also seems that the room necessary for all those encounters means less material overall. Heck, the old Ravenloft module is better than the new one as far as I'm concerned, it certainly feels like it gives me more to work with, and maybe that's the point of this new format, to hold our hand and not give us any room to play around with the material on our own. That said, as a huge Greyhawk fan, I will purchase this, but I don't have high hopes for its usability.
I couldn't resist, either! I hope we don't give you guys RSI...
I get a beautifully rendered map for each encounter that I can't show my players because it has DM info on it...Very true - I don't suppose there's any chance of getting a pdf of player-friendly maps to go along with this?
Well, you would have to ask WotC for it. Paizo is the wrong address for this. Otherwise, scan them and edit them with some software...
Stefan
I couldn't resist, either! I hope we don't give you guys RSI...
I get a beautifully rendered map for each encounter that I can't show my players because it has DM info on it...Very true - I don't suppose there's any chance of getting a pdf of player-friendly maps to go along with this?
They have up loaded all the othe maps for the other Expedition books, on thier Site (WOCT) but they are the same version as the ones in the book (with all the DM info).
I'm just gonna chime in and note that I love the add for this book:
It was in the Ruins of Castle Greyhawk where a lesser warrior would've said, "Pee, meet Pants."
But not I. I led my party to victory.
Pants unsoiled.
Yeah, it was great -- and I loved the use of the Erol Otus art! Is it just me, or does no other artist capture the 'spirit' of old-school D&D as well as Erol Otus?
I can't wait for the Expedition to Castle Greyhawk!
Hi all -
I'm wondering about the autographing of the book. Remember Alternity by TSR/WotC back around 1996-97? My 5 friends and I ordered it signed and numbered. What we got was Numbered. Numbered only. No autographs. We were told the reason for this was that only the first couple hundred were signed because then the authors got tired and didn't have time to sign 2500 copies.
On top of this, This product is about $32 here + shipping whereas Amazon offers it for $24 + free shipping (esp. for me with a Prime membership of $80/yr). I'm all for paying the extra $15 or so for the autograph, but I would like assurances that my book would indeed be signed by the three authors stated above. And I understand that Paizo is not WotC or even TSR. But the concern still stands for someone that paid for a signed copy previously.
Thanks for listening to my concern and hopefully addressing it.
Be Well. Be Well Signed.
Theocrat Issak
I believe it's slated as a Gen Con debut, so chances are it will be shipped very close to Gen Con.
All three of the authors work at Paizo, and we sign all copies of books written by us sold on Paizo.com.
In the case of "Hordes of the Abyss" we signed something like 20 cases of the books, so we don't get to back out of it just because we sold a lot of books.
But we enjoy signing the books, so it's not a problem.
I believe it's slated as a Gen Con debut, so chances are it will be shipped very close to Gen Con.
All three of the authors work at Paizo, and we sign all copies of books written by us sold on Paizo.com.
In the case of "Hordes of the Abyss" we signed something like 20 cases of the books, so we don't get to back out of it just because we sold a lot of books.
But we enjoy signing the books, so it's not a problem.
Good! I did enjoy the Hordes of the Abyss. Having it signed was a very nice extra! Thanks again for doing that!
Hi all -
Now since I've gotten a response from Vic and Erik, I'm all jazzed. So what's the added sticker price (like dealer prep, shipping charges, and that extra coat of paint they "put on" at the car dealer) for a PERSONALIZED signiture? Ok, I realize that's $1000 at GEN CON, but is there an added price we can pay if we wanted our book to say,
Dear Theocrat Issak of Pholtus (not the "Pholtus" guy from San Diego) - Your god is the best and we're sorry it's not in the PHB, DMG, or even in Exp. to Castle Greyhawk, but no worries because you will carry the torch.
In honor,
Erik Mona (Iquander)
And Lackey's....
Ok, maybe not even the And Lackey's part....but you know, I'm in that wicked weird sarcastic demeaner mode and willing to fork over an extra $3 per lackey.
In Glee,
Be Well. Be Well Lackied.
Theocrat Issak
I hate using miniatures, so the format doesn't help me one bit.
I know what you mean, but I don't feel the same way. 3.5 encourages if not demands a physical representation of the encounter for the combat rules. When I first began playing, under 2nd Ed., the one thing that frustrated me most was a vague notion of what the encounter really looked like in a 3D space. The best DM in the world can describe it, but there's no room for doubt when it's right in front of you. Plus, minis these days rule.
and maybe that's the point of this new format, to hold our hand and not give us any room to play around with the material on our own. That said, as a huge Greyhawk fan, I will purchase this, but I don't have high hopes for its usability.
The point probably is a hand-holding, newbie friendly format. But the DM is still in charge of the material at the end of the day. I'm with you on the spatial issues though. Less material sucks.
