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One of my players sent me this LINK.
Whats the big deal.
He's a CRIMINAL. He lost all rights and freedoms when he took another life.
Quite worrying about these losers and their civil rights after they have demonstrated a total disregard for the life,rights and dignity of others.
So he cant play D&D then he shouldn't have killed his victim and put her family through h3ll mourning her lose. He's alive and can see his family or talk to them, his victims family will never be able to do that ever again.
Please do not misunderstand this post to be in any way advocating inhuman treatment for our prisoners, we as a society are better than that, however the free medical,free education for lifers,free cable,entertainment and other things are not makeing prison what it should be.
I'm going to quite ranting now.
*steps off soapbox*
Whats the big deal.
He's a CRIMINAL. He lost all rights and freedoms when he took another life.
Quite worrying about these losers and their civil rights after they have demonstrated a total disregard for the life,rights and dignity of others.
So he cant play D&D then he shouldn't have killed his victim and put her family through h3ll mourning her lose. He's alive and can see his family or talk to them, his victims family will never be able to do that ever again.Please do not misunderstand this post to be in any way advocating inhuman treatment for our prisoners, we as a society are better than that, however the free medical,free education for lifers,free cable,entertainment and other things are not makeing prison what it should be.
I'm going to quite ranting now.
*steps off soapbox*
Just so I understand - because he's a imprisoned criminal or an imprisoned murderer?
I greatly disagree with this. I know that they are a prisoner and they lost their rights, but they get flipping cable! I know someone who is wrongfully in (politics explained on another thread), and he said they removed all dice where he is at because the gangs were making d20s into gambling games for cigarettes. I would think it total crap if they removed the books though (they still let them play world of darkness stuff as they feel they can get by without dice).
I guess some ******s ruin it for the whole, just like everything else.
Whats the big deal.
He's a CRIMINAL. He lost all rights and freedoms when he took another life.
Quite worrying about these losers and their civil rights after they have demonstrated a total disregard for the life,rights and dignity of others.
So he cant play D&D then he shouldn't have killed his victim and put her family through h3ll mourning her lose. He's alive and can see his family or talk to them, his victims family will never be able to do that ever again.Please do not misunderstand this post to be in any way advocating inhuman treatment for our prisoners, we as a society are better than that, however the free medical,free education for lifers,free cable,entertainment and other things are not makeing prison what it should be.
I'm going to quite ranting now.
*steps off soapbox*
With all due respect, while I would expect this sort of vitriol from a friend or family member of the victim, you're sounding a little hot under the collar about this.
The man murdered someone, yes. He has been tried, convicted, and sentenced according to law. His crime has been punished. Your statement that he has "lost all rights and freedoms" by killing another person is patently false. He still holds rights; they are simply much more limited.
While I agree that many prisons offer comforts I don't think prisoners require or should necessarily have, I think in this instance that banning the game is wrong. It can be a healthy outlet and is certainly a much better thing to have a prisoner doing in their spare time than other things I can think of, and unlike the cable television his D&D books aren't bought with the taxpayer dollar. He's going to be in a cell for the rest of his natural life for his crime. Playing an RPG to pass the next several decades doesn't seem to be too much to ask.
You know, my knee jerk reaction was to be outraged by this. Not that he lost the right, but the reason they cited for banning d&d. However, upon thinking about it more, I can see why a prison might have a problem with an activity that involves prisoners working together to defeat a common enemy, fiction or not.
With all due respect, while I would expect this sort of vitriol from a friend or family member of the victim, you're sounding a little hot under the collar about this.
The man murdered someone, yes. He has been tried, convicted, and sentenced according to law. His crime has been punished. Your statement that he has "lost all rights and freedoms" by killing another person is patently false. He still holds rights; they are simply much more limited.
While I agree that many prisons offer comforts I don't think prisoners require or should necessarily have, I think in this instance that banning the game is wrong. It can be a healthy outlet and is certainly a much better thing to have a prisoner doing in their spare time than other things I can think of, and unlike the cable television his D&D books aren't bought with the taxpayer dollar. He's going to be in a cell for the rest of his natural life for his crime. Playing an RPG to pass the next several decades doesn't seem to be too much to ask.
Just as a thought here but....
No job to go to.Free meals, albeit not the best faire.
Free TV and fitness equipment access.
Nothing but freetime to play D&D.
That sounds like Paradise, not prison. I do understand that you give up some things like being able to go out and do oddball stuff that we all take for granted and there is a real lack in the sex area, but damn that sounds like a pretty sweet deal.
Just as a thought here but....
No job to go to.
Free meals, albeit not the best faire.
Free TV and fitness equipment access.
Nothing but freetime to play D&D.
That sounds like Paradise, not prison. I do understand that you give up some things like being able to go out and do oddball stuff that we all take for granted and there is a real lack in the sex area, but damn that sounds like a pretty sweet deal.
That's not true. There's all the non-consensual sex you could ask for!
Skeld
(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Battles Case Subscriber)
You know, my knee jerk reaction was to be outraged by this. Not that he lost the right, but the reason they cited for banning d&d. However, upon thinking about it more, I can see why a prison might have a problem with an activity that involves prisoners working together to defeat a common enemy, fiction or not.
And yet that would describe many other activities currently allowed within prisons.
Like I said earlier, I didn't post this as a commentary on the prison system itself or on the rights of prisoners, but as to the perception of D&D in the minds of those who don't understand.
PS. If I were to eliminate an activity that I find "dangerous" within the prison system, I would look at inmates spending enormous amounts time and energy working out in the provided gyms. I think that as a correctional officer within a prison, I would rather deal with the D&D players versus the hulking inmate who benches 300 lbs with ease. Just a thought.
Stardust has a point. Back in 1991 the CDCs released a report about the cathartic effects of RPGs and how they actually lessened violence by giving a social acceptable outlet for violent urges. If you can take your anger out on an imaginary orc, you are less likely to go and shoot your boss.
This actually did come up during the trial - the prisoner provided evidence that D&D isn't harmful and can in fact be helpful, but the appellate court held that the issue was whether it was arbitrary or irrational to ban D&D, given that the organization of a D&D group is similar to the organization of a gang. I don't necessarily agree with this, I just wanted to clarify.
While Cardwell and his other affiants, including a literacy tutor and a role-playing game analyst, testified to a positive relationship between D&D and rehabilitation, none disputed or even acknowledged the prison officials’ assertions that there are valid reasons to fear a relationship running in the opposite direction. The prison officials pointed to a few published circuit court cases to give traction to their views. We view these cases as persuasive evidence that for some individuals, games like D&D can impede rehabilitation, lead to escapist tendencies, or result in more dire consequences.
With all due respect, while I would expect this sort of vitriol from a friend or family member of the victim, you're sounding a little hot under the collar about this.
The man murdered someone, yes. He has been tried, convicted, and sentenced according to law. His crime has been punished. Your statement that he has "lost all rights and freedoms" by killing another person is patently false. He still holds rights; they are simply much more limited.
While I agree that many prisons offer comforts I don't think prisoners require or should necessarily have, I think in this instance that banning the game is wrong. It can be a healthy outlet and is certainly a much better thing to have a prisoner doing in their spare time than other things I can think of, and unlike the cable television his D&D books aren't bought with the taxpayer dollar. He's going to be in a cell for the rest of his natural life for his crime. Playing an RPG to pass the next several decades doesn't seem to be too much to ask.
Just as a thought here but....
No job to go to.
Free meals, albeit not the best faire.
Free TV and fitness equipment access.
Nothing but freetime to play D&D.
That sounds like Paradise, not prison. I do understand that you give up some things like being able to go out and do oddball stuff that we all take for granted and there is a real lack in the sex area, but damn that sounds like a pretty sweet deal.
Ever been to a real prison? I spent 30 days in the local lockup and I just about went out of my mind and I didn't have to deal with the racial gangs, people tring to steal my food or just use me in general. You really don't know the impact of your loss of freedom until you don't have it anymore. I would do allmost anything to keep myself from being sent to prison or even going back to county jail.
The whole thing sounds more like punishment more than trying to prevent gang activity. Like taking away tv privliges when the guards find drugs in your cell. The Warden saw the killer was having too much fun and decided to put an end to it.
Just as a thought here but....
No job to go to.
Free meals, albeit not the best faire.
Free TV and fitness equipment access.
Nothing but freetime to play D&D.
That sounds like Paradise, not prison. I do understand that you give up some things like being able to go out and do oddball stuff that we all take for granted and there is a real lack in the sex area, but damn that sounds like a pretty sweet deal.
You're welcome to get yourself into maximum security prison for life and then report back how well it's going for you. We'll wait...
Stardust has a point. Back in 1991 the CDCs released a report about the cathartic effects of RPGs and how they actually lessened violence by giving a social acceptable outlet for violent urges. If you can take your anger out on an imaginary orc, you are less likely to go and shoot your boss.This actually did come up during the trial - the prisoner provided evidence that D&D isn't harmful and can in fact be helpful, but the appellate court held that the issue was whether it was arbitrary or irrational to ban D&D, given that the organization of a D&D group is similar to the organization of a gang. I don't necessarily agree with this, I just wanted to clarify.
While Cardwell and his other affiants, including a literacy tutor and a role-playing game analyst, testified to a positive relationship between D&D and rehabilitation, none disputed or even acknowledged the prison officials’ assertions that there are valid reasons to fear a relationship running in the opposite direction. The prison officials pointed to a few published circuit court cases to give traction to their views. We view these cases as persuasive evidence that for some individuals, games like D&D can impede rehabilitation, lead to escapist tendencies, or result in more dire consequences.
Interesting. I wonder if the Seventh Courts definition of Escapist is the same as the rest of the worlds.
Well as Prince pointed out, the very idea of a group of inmates banding together against a common foe is one that could be very troubling to prison officials. As for how it encourages gang activity, you not only have the Thieve's Guilds but the party itself could be veiwed as gang, battling other gangs for dominance over other gangs.
I know people want prisoners to be punished, but remember that a good portion of those people will be coming back out ^_^, they still need their outlets or else they literally do go crazy o_o we don't need criminals coming out even more screwed up than they already are ^^
Yes there is precedence of folks doing 25-30 years coming out of jail and so forth... that squeaky chick that went after reagan is being let out, that guy who shot the pope in the 70s(?) is being let out.
So you have to ask yourself how badly can you punish someone yet still humane? O_o tough questions.
Well as Prince pointed out, the very idea of a group of inmates banding together against a common foe is one that could be very troubling to prison officials. As for how it encourages gang activity, you not only have the Thieve's Guilds but the party itself could be veiwed as gang, battling other gangs for dominance over other gangs.
I'm a little confused here. Are you suggesting the prison's objections are "in game" concerns versus the gathering of prisoners around a table to partake in a game?
Ever been to a real prison? I spent 30 days in the local lockup and I just about went out of my mind and I didn't have to deal with the racial gangs, people tring to steal my food or just use me in general. You really don't know the impact of your loss of freedom until you don't have it anymore. I would do allmost anything to keep myself from being sent to prison or even going back to county jail.
The whole thing sounds more like punishment more than trying to prevent gang activity. Like taking away tv privliges when the guards find drugs in your...
I did a couple minor stints. One for 6 months, and after the initial 'break-in period' of a month or so, it all settles down a bit and you can get more normal things going on. I played spades and other card games fairly frequently with a group of guys, worked out with a couple of them several times a week, learned a couple of inside skills like making cross necklaces out of different color thread harvested from socks and how to speak street-slang. Now to be fair, I was absolutely physically ripped when I went in and had 10 years of Martial arts training in various styles. A dude tried to take my roll off of my plate on the second day in there and I sent him to the hospital with a broken collarbone. Nobody wanted to start stuff after that. It really isn't that bad if you are able to adapt to it and learn the rules of survival. No harder than life out here, just different with different rule systems.