Made a screen name here simply for this purpose. Anonymity is very useful.

The basis of this is my desire to kill myself.

I suppose I just want to discuss more of the philosophical sides of the issue. Perhaps delve into myself to show this isn't a spur of the moment thing.

Background: Tried multiple times since december. Last real attempt was end of february. Mostly via overdosing on pills.

Not in a weak way... like ten tylenol or something. Pill of choice was Tramadol. They say if you take more than 6 in a 24 hour period you risk lots of bad things. Up to and including, stroke, coma and death.

First round was somewhere around fifty. Second round was about thirty to forty with alcohol etc.. Kept taking more and drinking more. Never worked.

Tried grilling a steak in the bathroom. The smoke was quite overwhelming so I took sleeping pills to not notice.

Woke up.

So, since then.. I've been writing in my spiral notebook in order to show at a minimum a month or two of thoughts to show my reasoning behind this.

Subtle ways haven't worked. Obviously, so I've been planning on shooting myself. Now, plenty of rifles and shotguns available. I don't think I could look down and still do it. Plus length of the weapon might make it difficult. There is a 45 revolver and a 22 semi-automatic both pistols - but with very long barrels. I've looked at the 45 and it is intimidating. The 22, is what I think I'm going to go with.. but, I'm slightly worried it wont work.

I would use my .380 pistol but finding ammo for that is like looking for the holy grail. I do however, dry fire it against my temple every day.

Bit of conditioning there.

I had planned on driving my car to the middle of nowhere... but due to unforeseen circumstances that might be an option.

That's my basic history of trying and plans.

On a more philosophical side, I'm not worried about a heaven or hell. I've done enough evil in my life that if there is a heaven or a hell - I'm already bound for one.

Ofcourse, if I had a solid faith.. I probably wouldn't be considering death as an option.

I simply believe that I'm a waste of space. A waste of resources and I have nothing to offer anyone.

I think we should have the right to die if we so choose. We should be able to go to our doctor and get assistance. If they can't change your mind, should the be allowed to try, they give you what you need to go to sleep peacefully. Rather than risk messing up or having a loved one find you with your brains across the wall.

I'm going to take a break from this for a moment. I'll be around for a bit.

Is there really no one/nothing in life that you are willing to live for?

If you think that life has no meaning, visit a cemetery today--soldiers who died gave meaning to their deaths by doing something important--defending their loved ones/homeland, opposing evil, trying to bring peace to the world.

You say that you aren't concerned about the afterlife, and imply that if hell exists, you have set yourself up to go there. But consider this--as terrible as life can be at times, hell is unending misery with no hope of relief or escape. If you are willing to consider the possibility that hell exists, why would you risk trading an unhappy mortal life for a truly awful eternity?

If you are willing to consider the possibility that heaven exists, I'd point you in that direction. It is true that God hates evil, but He made you and loves you--loves you enough to have sent his son Jesus to suffer the punishment your evil deeds deserve. Jesus rose from the dead so he can forgive you--forgive anything and everything you have done. He opens heaven to you, if you will take his outstretched hand.

Most of us find our personal value through relationships--the love and approval of parents, friends, lovers. When such love is absent, we can feel like we're a 'waste of space.' But even when humans screw you over, Jesus loves you--you have value because God wants you in a loving relationship with himself.

Don't walk away from a love that can fill the emptiness in your heart and give your days value.

EDIT:: QXL99 jumped in while I was typing. All you's, your's, and such are directed at Welcoming Death. /EDIT::

I've just woken from a critical failure of an attempt at sleep, so I am a bit fuzzier than even normal...

If I am reading your post correctly, are you asking for advice on how to commit suicide?

If that is the case, I have to tell you that you won't get that here. It has nothing to do with you, or the choices you are making, nor what any one might think of it. Paizo is based in the US, and in the US the act is illegal. I do not think anyone here will put Paizo at risk by giving you advice on how to commit a crime.

Before I continue, I have to explain that I am a jaded, cynical, son of a b#$+$. I'm snarky and angry. In short, I'm an a~*@@&+.
I'm not trying to make any excuses for myself.
I'm trying to warn you that what I am about to ask is likely to come across like I'm trying to be a prick.

I'm not.

But I am not socially graceful enough to come up with a better way of asking.
So know that I am not trying to belittle you, or your decision, or what you are going through.

Is your reason only that you think you are a waste?

I ask, because the times I considered suicide there was more to it. But I haven't thought like that for quite a few years now, so I might be missing something. Thinking back on those I've talked to that were thinking of it, and especially those that tried, there was more to it.
More hate. More anger. More despair.

Is there more to it?

I'm just looking for a yes or no answer. You don't need to share details you aren't willing to. But if you would, it would help me get an idea of what you are going through.

So, when you are ready, let me know. Call me a douchebag. Whatever. And we will go from there.

I just got off the phone with the National Suicide Prevention Hotline, and because of your anonymity, they can't help me help you. So you're going to have to do it yourself: Please call 1-800-273-TALK (8255) right now. You might get put on hold for 30 seconds, but please just wait, someone will be there on the line.

No one is ever a waste of space. Please listen to Gary and call.

A fine use for "justification of space" is to give your frienship to somebody else. Makes you quite useful and making other people happy is a good way to feel better about yourself. An easy way to do it is to post here. You see, its a very friendly place in there is always people on the lookout for new friends.

Join us and take Gary's advice -please-!

I read quite a bit in your post about your plans and methods for carrying out suicide. However, one thing that I couldn't find (please forgive me if I just missed it) is reasoning for why you find yourself thinking about/attempting suicide.

I understand if you prefer not to talk about it, but the fact that you have posted here at all (even anonymously) makes me think that you are looking for some dialogue. Therefore, let me ask: Why is it that you are attempting to do this? I want to help, but without knowing more about your situation, that will be difficult.

That said, I would also reiterate Gary's suggestion. Please call the hotline. I think we all would like to hear back from you soon.

For everyone, there is some reason to live. Please, listen to Gary. Paizo is a caring community, and more importantly, the world is a caring community. There is always a reason to live. Please make the call.

The fact you even posted your intention here on Paizo suggests that you want help. You only make more problems by attempting suicide. You need to make that call. All these people you don't even know are trying to help, don't let them down. Don't let yourself down. Make the call and live a long and happy life.

No one is a waste of space. Everyone is important. No matter what, there are people who care about you and will miss you.

P.S. - If you think you are that much of a waste, then volunteer somewhere first. Look around and ask "What can I do to make this world a better place?" and then do something about it. Find someone who needs a friend and BE their friend. Hell, the local Humane Society could use your help and those animals want to be loved and needed. ~smiles at my dog~ There is plenty that you can do that helps this world and there are plenty of people who want you around. The Paizo community is just one of those groups.

whew; I didnt know if this was a joke like Monty Python or to call the police an say; hey; some guy I value is posting he wants to cancel his XMAS and all the rest.

I am trying to hard to think of something encouraging to say, but not doing very well. Life is all perspective; whatever you desire good or bad; that is what you get; best I can think of is to listen to some Abraham tapes.

I could tell you about my life; had some suckage to the max; but things are great now and getting better; little bit all the time. All I did was look for something to enjoy doing and things got better.

I am sorry to talk about myself; I know you need someone who can listen and encourage; I suck at it; but am trying.

@OP: Suicide is never the answer. Don't give up. There are people who care about you. Have courage.

As someone who's suffered from depression and suicidal thoughts/actions, I say: Wth stop.
It may seem easiest to just end it all and go to sleep, but there are people that can help you. Call someone, anyone, and talk to them. Explain how you are trying to kill yourself, just as you did here. The simple act of telling people about it means that you aren't that far gone. Go play a video game or go for a walk while you're waiting for someone to come.
Often, you want to kill yourself because people will care about you more then, but you don't want to be embarrassed by telling people before you die.
Your body wants to live, and it won't let you destroy it with smoke or pills.
If you're in the military, which I assume you are, then call up people you knew there. People in the military have a much higher chance of getting PTSD, depression, and/or suicidal. Most senior officers have experience with this kind of thing. No matter what you've done, you shouldn't die for it.
Edit, after reading other posts: If you have a pet, pet them, hold them. If you don't, go to the humane society or just walk out in the street and look for one to pet (or if not in a town/city, then just go running or something). In my experience, pets are an awesome way to keep living. When you're holding them, you know that they need you. Would you want to kill them?

Sometimes even when you think that there is no one who would miss you or would be effected if you weren't there, you can be totally blind to the people who are there. Reach out for help. make a phone call. Talk to someone you know. Reaching out over the computer is better than nothing, but please, take the next step.

One of my two best friends in high school committed suicide while we were in college - in different states, and so I wasn't there for her when her life spiraled out of control. For years afterward, just thinking about it for a couple of minutes could spiral me into a deep depression. It's been twenty years now, and it still can.

I worked with a man at a retail store after college. One of his family members, that he had been estranged from for a couple of years at the time, committed suicide. This man was so badly affected by it that he started drinking. He was an alcoholic for ten years after that before starting to pull himself together, getting off the streets, and getting that retail job where I met him. We talked often about how the loss of these people in our lives had affected us.

Your life has touched people more than you know - often, you've touched people you don't even realize. People care about you. All I know about you so far is that you're hurting very badly, and I care about you. I want for you to be okay. Not for me, but for you, because I know what it's like to hurt so badly that you just can't stand to be stuck inside yourself for one more moment.

Look at the responses so far in this thread. All of us here would be deeply affected if we were to think that after calling out for help here, you'd gone off and ended things. Please don't think that you have to be alone in this.

Call the hotline number that Gary listed in his post. Call someone you know. Don't be alone with your thoughts. And if it helps you, please keep talking to us here. But please, no matter what, don't give up on yourself.

I mainly posted here because I felt the urge to write. My notebook is in my car, which is currently impounded.

Yes, there are people that care about me. If I wasn't a selfish person I wouldn't be considering suicide. So, their feelings in the event of my death aren't at the forethought of my mind.

Gary, I called that number before. Not only did I explain to the woman on the phone what I intended to do - this was the grilling incident. But, after twenty minutes of berating her on how their techniques (hospital or otherwise) are such a joke. I convinced her nothing would happen. This was so she wouldn't send an ambulance and police to my apartment.

The first time in December I woke up in the hospital due to my now ex-wife realizing that I had taken medication. I didn't go to one single session in there, and yet convinced them everything was fine. Despite learning about she divorcing me while I was in there. They would've let me out three days earlier than they did - but she asked them to keep me because she was scared.

To Disenchanter, no... being a waste isn't my only reason. I could and would go into detail.. but it might touch base on some other conversations and then would ofcourse lead to whom I am. That is unacceptable.

Gark, I've talked to people that have cared about me at least one point or another about things. People don't like to hear about this sort of thing. Yes, I was in the military but I'm not anymore.

A lot of the posts assume I haven't tried a lot of these remedies. I've looked for things to take my mind of stuff and think positive. Thing is; Nothing has worked. I have yet to experience a reprieve on any level. I feel extremely detached from everything around me. From family, to getting laid multiple times on a first date. It is very empty.

I was thinking about doing it right now actually. However, I want to get my car back first. My notebook and wedding ring is in there. Plus, I'd like to send the title to my ex so she can get money for it. If she wanted.

I want to point out this is not because of a divorce. This has been an internal struggle for the majority of my life. Ofcourse the divorce doesn't help. But, it is not the catalyst.

I'm not trying to bring anybody down here. I'm not asking for suggestions on how to kill myself. I didn't plan on posting here. Simply felt the urge to write.

I hope no one really lets this get to them. I know Paizo is a caring community.

Everyone here did everything they could. No one should feel responsible for actions outside of their control.

Hello, my name's Heath. Are you there?

Wow, I'm really sorry that life has led you to contemplate the ultimate door shutting WD, my heart goes out to you.

I really don't have much else to add to the excellent advice others have given you, just remember that suicide is the undoable option. Once you commit to it and succeed, you can't say 'do over!'. Death is final and no one can say what is beyond that Veil. All you leave behind are the friends and family who love you, and who will suffer with the guilt that they didn't see this coming and help you.

There will never be an option to improve after this step, WD. There will never be any more of the joys that you have experienced, never looking into the eyes of a loved one, seeing your children grow, enjoying a twilight summer day, petting a cat or dog. You lose the option to help others.

A wise man once said, 'no man is an island'. Your life, and your death, impact those around you, for good or ill. On this day, when we remember those who sacrificed their lives to protect us, it is a good time to realize how precious a life is, even when it has sorrow interspersed with it.

I wish you the best WD, and I hope that you will back away from the Abyss. Your ending will create a hole in the fabric of Life, and that is never a good thing. Stay strong, look to the happy things that define your existance and find a reason to delay the Final Descision.

Yes Heath.

Patrick, in about 100 years all those reasons will be gone.

I'm up for talking to pass the time at the moment. About to try and eat and watch the 80's videos on VH1.

Aside from my bringing folks down... how is everyone else doing?

I'm doing allright.
Just saw the new Star Trek movie yesterday.
It was pretty sweet.

Yeah, I've heard good things.

Patrick, in about 100 years all those reasons will be gone.

But why cheat yourself of the enjoyment of the good aspects of life? You might be in a bad place now, but things always improve. A good portion of life is struggle and pain, but another part of it is enjoyment and happiness. There's never all of one or the other.

I'm only quoting one part of your post since it was directed towards me specifically.

To Disenchanter, no... being a waste isn't my only reason. I could and would go into detail.. but it might touch base on some other conversations and then would ofcourse lead to whom I am. That is unacceptable.

I can respect that. I wasn't trying to pry. It is just really hard to have a discussion with you on the topic without having some baseline to work with. I'll have to ask forgiveness ahead of time if I make a stupid assumption then.

You can't be too awful selfish. You're trying to get your car out of impound for the benefit of your ex-wife, on top of other reasons. You are reluctant to go the gun route to spare a family member/other loved one from discovering you that way. Even going so far as to consider driving out where no one you know would be the one to find you. I never thought it through that much. I never could get past the problem of not finding a method I was comfortable with, that I also knew that the animal part of me wouldn't prevent somehow. I'd say you are less selfish than me. Not that that means anything.

Why did you join the military? That can be rhetorical, if you like. If it wasn't solely for the financial reasons, which I am led to believe are a bit of a scam, then there is another clue that you may not be as selfish as you lead us to believe.

Is it that you don't realise this yourself? Or are you trying to paint yourself as a worse person than you really are?

You mentioned in your first post that doctors should assist. I certainly agree with the concept. But I get the impression most doctors wouldn't. I've only known one doctor really well, so I'm basing this off of nearly pure speculation. But I would think that the kind of person that becomes a good doctor wouldn't help unless the patient - in this case - was already terminally ill. But what the hell do I know, when we get down to it?

Well, you mentioned you would go into detail if it wouldn't reveal who you are. If you would like, drop me an email. Let me know if you want to keep the conversation private, or if I can - or should - respond to you here.

The address is prestoragu AT gmail DOT com. After the first contact, I'm willing to give you a less spam address if you would rather. I'm not comfortable putting my more personal addresses in a public forum.

And you didn't even cuss me out. I would have thought anyone would jump at the invitation... :-)

30,000 Leagues Under The Sea or Major League

Both are coming on in ten minutes. Can't decide which one to watch.

Yeah, I've heard good things.

I've heard the X-men Origins movie is pretty good, have you seen it WD?

I joined the military I guess to get away. I couldn't really hack it.

I'm not giving my car to her because of noble reasons. I owe her. Big time. Multiple times throughout our marriage I strangled her and made her fear for her life. Apparently, I can't handle not being in control. And when she got really down and depressed and started talking about killing herself.. well.. It's messed up isn't it.

Part of why I want to kill myself is nurture over nature.

I'm worried about passing on some of my issues to others... best idea would to be take myself out of that equation.

Nope haven't seen X-Men either.

Is major league the one with Charlie Sheen? I think I saw that when it came out; like 20 years ago.
Don't know what 30,000 leagues is though.

Yeah, the Charlie Sheen one. Very good movie.

30,000 leagues is about the psychotic cap'n nemo who tries to make people live under the sea apparently. Haven't seen it.

I'd suggest Major League, myself.

Military to get away? Couldn't hack it? That boggles my mind. I'm just not lawful enough I guess, but I can't imagine the military would be a useful vessel to get away from not being able to handle civilian life...

No, mentally. I ended up using an old injury to start conversations to leave but then they delved into my psyche and said I had borderline personality disorder and they sent me home.

Yeah, the Charlie Sheen one. Very good movie.

30,000 leagues is about the psychotic cap'n nemo who tries to make people live under the sea apparently. Haven't seen it.

Who plays Captain Nemo?

WD, all I can do is wish you the best and put you in my prayers. If you want to talk, my e-mail is...

...and we can talk. I am more than willing to give you my cell number.

I'm worried about passing on some of my issues to others... best idea would to be take myself out of that equation.

Problem is dude, if you have kids, your actions affect them for life, whether or not you are there.

If you don't trust yourself to be a nurturing father, then even if you live across the country you can call the kids to say, 'Hey, Daddy loves you.' Perhaps you will find the right thing to rekindle your happiness, and you can be a positive influence on your kids.

Kids whose parents commit suicide grow up blaming themselves. I know, my ex-wife's father killed himself, and it was a real big issue with her. Often times they inherit the genetic predisposition for depression and your example will always be in the forefront of their minds ...

If you can't live for yourself, live for your family. Try being strong for them, even if you don't feel you can live with them.

I see. I misunderstood.

What does borderline personality disorder mean? If it is what I think it might mean, I can't think of anyone I am in regular contact with not having it...

You can e-mail me at

Never heard of him.
I saw he is going to be in "Not Another Not Another Movie...." that looks promising...

Exactly Pat. Thing is, I'm going to ruin their lives one way or another. If I go now, at least one of them would be spared.

Not sure Heath, the three billed is Lorenzo Lamas, Sean Lawlor, and Natalie Stone...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1056026/
Looks like Sean Lawlor

Then you definetly want Major League, watching Lorenzo Lamas is pure torture... and I don't think you need that right now.

Okay, according to wikipedia borderline personality disorder is a bit more severe than what my friends have. So I guess they have borderline borderline personality disorder.

Exactly Pat. Thing is, I'm going to ruin their lives one way or another. If I go now, at least one of them would be spared.

The absolute worst you can do alive is make things rough, the best you can do by being dead is to destroy their lives.

It sounds like you have more than one child, am I reading that right?

Can you say how many?

Disenchanter, that was just the military doc.

If nurture over nature is true.. then they have a strong chance to end up like me as I did my parents. I cannot allow that to happen.

I think Major League might be the best choice, but....me, I don't really care much for giant squids. Although;....I like undersea stuff and old Victorian looking steam punk type getups, so I'm kindof at an impasse.

WD, I hope you have taken or will take Gary's advice and call. It may not seem like it now, but what you are contemplating will not make things better.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

So what did you end up watching?

I been watching a Land of the Lost marathon on and off whilst wrangling kids in and out of a back yard pool.....

I'm watching Major League. I always appreciate a good Charlie Sheen movie. I started the other one.. and it was slow and boring.

Exactly Pat. Thing is, I'm going to ruin their lives one way or another. If I go now, at least one of them would be spared.

I would say that you are definitely going to ruin their lives by suicide. You always have the option to improve your relationship with your family if you are still on this plane of existance.

They will always remember you by what you do. Ask yourself if you want your kids to remember you this way.

Ten years from now, you might be a whole different person. Lord knows I am.

I am ex-military. When I was in Basic, my first wife left me. I didn't find out until I was in AIT. I loved that woman with all my heart. We had a beautiful daughter together, and she ran off with a crack head for no reason I could fathom and sold all our stuff and cleaned out our bank account. For two years I studied Arabic, trying to immerse myself in work, and I felt as if I was dead. At the end of my training I was denied my security clearance. All that work (I thought) for nothing. I also found out my daughter had been abused by some creepy babysitter my ex-wife had left her with. I was ready to lock and load and go ex-wife hunting, going out in a blaze of glory.

I know pain, I know sorrow. I now have a new wife I love and who loves me back. We struggle, and I struggle with my daughter's mental issues that are the legacy of her mistreatment while she was in my ex-wife's custody. But if I had given up when at my darkest, I would never have the many joys that my life brings to me. I would have never fallen in love with my new wife, or made a difference with the many folks I have helped since I got 'Jodied'.

All I'm trying to say man, is you can never find a better way if you are dead. Death is the ending of all options, at least in this incarnation.

You say you're an egoist, and you say you don't want to hurt others, which you say is the main reason for doing it. I see some inconsistency there (which might be explained by the Borderline syndrome). Have you really thought this through?

I don't think you're realy an egoist, or you wouldn't even think about others, and would certainly not consider extreme actions for the sake of others.

I do think you care about others. Which is a big reason against suicide. It may free you from all your problems (or not - but I'll leave the religious considerations to the priests among us), but you'll mess up things for those you care for.

I suspect that part of you doesn't want you to go through with this, and I think you should explore that part. Listen to that part of you, find out what keeps it going. You might find reasons for staying there.

And for the record: I do think there are people that are a waste of resources. I don't think you're among those. You really don't sound like the sort or egoistic, arrogant parasite I think of when I talk about "waste of space". And those guys never think about killing themselves.

Have you considered therapy? Are you getting therapy? It's not quite guaranteed to work, but I think everyone with problems is going to benefit from it one way or the other. If you have had psychotherapy before and it didn't help, try a different flavour: If you had behaviour therapy, try depth psychology, or vice versa. Sometimes, people need to be taught how to deal with problems, and sometimes, they need to find out just what the problems are.

I know from experience that really knowing your problem, and naming your demons, can be of tremendous help.

watching Lorenzo Lamas is pure torture...

Hey! I liked him in Renegade - of course, I was a lot younger when that show was on, but still. Nostalgia and all.

What does borderline personality disorder mean? If it is what I think it might mean, I can't think of anyone I am in regular contact with not having it...

Look it up on wikipedia or google.

Basically, it involves stuff like extreme mood-swings, up to "black/white-personality". People like that can go from euphoria to deep depression and back with nothing in between, or have no middleground (they either really like you or really hate you), or maybe even unable to tell it all apart.

I know/knew someone who was diagnosed with Borderline. It may have been a light case, but still, you never knew what to expect.

Imagine someone going for a walk with you on the first day they meet you , and tell you their life story - which involves being raped several times in their young life and losing a child, which was result of one of those rapes.

And then imagine that same person freely talking about their sex life a couple of minutes later. You just don't know what to think.

Imagine someone comes to the lunch table upbeat but leaves as a crying wreck before you had a chance to touch your dessert.