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Let me start off by saying that I am very fond of the Star Wars d20 game. I love the flavor of the game, the dramatic vitality/wound system (even with its flaws), and the coolness of lightsaber combat.
BUT!
I hate the way Force powers are done. I think it's fine that they are skills. They should be. Mastering the Force is something one does gradually and I'm fine with that. No no, what I hate is the fact that the Force is WEAK. Force Lightning, a power that should be DREADED AND FEARED BY ALL maxes out at a pathetic 3d6 damage. Force Choke, another dreaded Dark Side power, deals 3d4. Not only that, but the saving throw DCs are heinously low. C'mon! These are dark powers here! Make them formidable! Make them scary! Make us FEAR the people who use them! Unless these powers are supposed to deal damage directly to Wounds (which it does not state anywhere that they do), they utterly fail to be scary.
Does anyone have any recommendations for making the Force powers more functional? As it stands, characters in our Star Wars game typically max out Battlemind, Heal Self, and Move Object and don't really worry about the rest because they are either too weak or too easy to save against (or both). Those who play Consulars will take Heal Other and the Mind Trick one (can't remember the name) in addition to those listed above. Most of the other powers just aren't useful or formidable enough to waste points in. I'm looking to revitalize the system. Make the Force something other than "nifty psychic parlor tricks" for this game! Sound off your ideas here! Thanks.
I hate the way Force powers are done. I think it's fine that they are skills. They should be. Mastering the Force is something one does gradually and I'm fine with that. No no, what I hate is the fact that the Force is WEAK. Force Lightning, a power that should be DREADED AND FEARED BY ALL maxes out at a pathetic 3d6 damage. Force Choke, another dreaded Dark Side power, deals 3d4
Well, on the one hand, I can see your point, and think that maybe the damage is a little low. But on the other hand, I can still see how this sort of thing is dreaded and feared by all, considering that Jedi can do this damage at range, completely naked, while the victim on the other hand, if they want to do something to the Jedi in question, he or she will have to close the distance, and/or have a weapon.
Not only that, but the saving throw DCs are heinously low.
Okay, that blows big chunkies.
Use midichlorians.....
Gee! Why didn't *I* think of that?!?! o_o
Because you like Star Wars?
:D
In the defense of Episode I... um... Liam Neeson rocks!
;D
There is however no defense against Episode 2....
And yes, Liam Neeson rocks mightily (especially when going through blast doors).
Saurstalk hit it on the head. Basically from the design standpoint force users (in your average RP setting) should not be so tough as to overshadow soldiers and scoundrels. Even in the WestEnd Games version you couldn't do everything they did in the movies. If you are looking for something different what about using the gestalt rules from Unearthed Arcana for force users?
GGG
Fatespinner, they (WotC) are releasing a Saga Edition of the Star Wars roleplaying game. It was pushed back to June, but it might resolve these issues. In what Ive seen thus far, I like the changes. In my opinion, the Star Wars game system was riddled with more holes than a sift (evidence of that can be seen in the over 100 Jedi Counsil posts at the website). I found it completely unplayable - next to West Ends system. I've got the new book preordered at Amazon and have my fingers crossed.
Of course, the odds of WotC putting out a decent Star Wars roleplaying game are approximately 3,720 to 1.
Fatespinner, they (WotC) are releasing a Saga Edition of the Star Wars roleplaying game. It was pushed back to June, but it might resolve these issues. In what Ive seen thus far, I like the changes. In my opinion, the Star Wars game system was riddled with more holes than a sift (evidence of that can be seen in the over 100 Jedi Counsil posts at the website). I found it completely unplayable - next to West Ends system. I've got the new book preordered at Amazon and have my fingers crossed.
Of course, the odds of WotC putting out a decent Star Wars roleplaying game are approximately 3,720 to 1.
Do a review somewhere on the boards here to let me know if it's any good once it comes out. If it's a WotC product, odds are that Paizo will even carry it and you can just do a 'Product Discussion' post for it when it shows up. I'd be interested to hear someone else's opinion before I spend any more money on this game.
I was running a West End game that never got too far.
One guy was a jedi, and his backstory he hung out at Kenobi's old gaff on Tatooine;
what he DIDN'T know is he was a clone of Darth Vader, a hundred of whom had been sprinkled here and there across the galaxy Boys From Brazil-style by crazy imperial holdouts.
We never got to the reveal, though.
I also keep track of every PCs dark side points secretly. I never tell them when they get one. It's awesome.Yeah, we ramp up the damage on the force powers as house rule when we play...of course we ramp up the dark side too...Never underestimate the power of the dark side.
*scribbles down some dark side points for Logue for having that idea in the first place*
*scribbles down some dark side points for Logue for having that idea in the first place*I also keep track of every PCs dark side points secretly. I never tell them when they get one. It's awesome.Yeah, we ramp up the damage on the force powers as house rule when we play...of course we ramp up the dark side too...Never underestimate the power of the dark side.
Oh I turned long ago Riskbreaker, don't listen to the foolish nonsense others tell you...the darkside is the only true power of the force. Give in to it and you'll reap rewards beyond your wildest dreams...
Oh, and I'm your father by the way, just fyi.
Although I'm sure you weren't necessarily wainting on pins-and-needles, Spinner, I posted my Star Wars review on the product thread (look for the post, not the actual review - I ran out of space).
In short: Close, but no cigar.
I checked it out. Thanks for the insight, IGR. My group doesn't tend to play Star Wars d20 very often as it is and, seeing your review (along with others) leads me to believe that the new system is not enough of an improvement (if it's an improvement at all) to warrant the expenditure. Thanks for the review!
DV:Luke, I am your father Luke!
LS:No, it can't be!
DV:Search your feelings, you know it to be true. And that brass droid of yours...
LS:Threepio?
DV:I built him when I was six years old. And that hot chick you've been frenching is your sister.
LS:But Obi Wan said that you killed my father.
DV:Don't interrupt boy! You think you are hot s#$% for blowing up the death star? I blew up a droid control ship before I hit puberty!
LS:Aaaaaaaaaargh! (falls)
DV:Get a haircut!
I've had some experience trying to translate the STAR WARS mileau from one game system to another. Back when the 2nd Edition of West End Games' STAR WARS was all the rage, I decided to be odd and home-designed a set of SW mechanics for the MasterBook game system. Some friends played a campaign (this was before Episodes 1-3, and the campaign was set three yeas before episode 4) that was generally well-received.
Some years later, as an intellectual exercise, a friend and I tried to convert STAR WARS to GURPS, and it was less successful, primarily because it lost the "feel" for being STAR WARS. The more we tried to, say, get Han to do Han-like things, the more the underlying assumptions of the system fought against us.
I've looked at a couple versions of the STAR WARS d20 rules, and I have to ask: How do these help a GameMaster convey the "feel" of the STAR WARS universe?
I don't think they do, particularly. Midichlorians aside, SW is a big "wahoo" universe, full of unexpected wonder, heroic risks, and bravery in the teeth of terrific odds; and the d20 rules system is ever-more-refined and carefully balanced, and, well, randomness-favors-the-underdog-and-that's-not-the-PC's and, ... phah.
WEG's "d6" system (especially the Wild Die) was faster, simpler, and --as I see it-- more fun to play.
Alright, I'm reviving this post because I didn't know where else to put this mini-rant of mine. I also hope that somehow some word of this might get back to WotC and something will be done about the situation.
Yes, I realize that the majority of the furor over Star Wars has died down now that all of the movies have come and gone. The Republic comic has been canceled in favor of Dark Times (which is so so at best). But - SAGA has just recently been released - Why isn't it being more heavily supported/promoted?
The Star Wars website over at WotC used to be updated weekly - with new characters, encounters, Jedi Counseling articles, etc. While the new movies were coming out, the site was a hotbed of new information that tied the movies, books, and comics together. It was great. Now, we're lucky if we get a monthly update - and at best, it's another edition of Jedi Counseling dealing largely with Star Wars mini questions. What happened to the new stuff?
Did WotC fire all the people working on Star Wars? It just seemed to dry up rather quickly. This is Star Wars for cryin' out loud - the marketing is built into the products. Why isn't anything new being released to capitalize on the Saga Edition? Why isn't there any product support? An Adventure Path would be awesome. New adventure modules, new books, new characters, . . . new ANYTHING.
Is this bothering anyone else? It feels like Star Wars is just fading away - making it a few year/short run game whose time has come and gone.
Does anyone have any insight into this? I love Star Wars, and can't believe the lack of attention it's getting.
They are going to release new products, it's just taking a while to do it. I agree that things are moving slowly over there, but I think they only have 3 guys working on the line at the moment (if I'm wrong, someone please correct me), and those guys are working hard to get new product out.
They have announced a few books and accessories by the end of the year:
Starships of the Galaxy
The Force Unleashed Sourcebook (which ties into the game of the same name coming soon from Lucasarts)
Some Character Sheets and a DM Screen.
Also starting sometime around GenCon they will start an Adventure Path called Dawn of Defiance. They'll have 10, 32 page adventures posted on the website for free download that'll take players from 1 to 20. How much time between adventures are posted is another story.
They are going to release new products, it's just taking a while to do it. I agree that things are moving slowly over there, but I think they only have 3 guys working on the line at the moment (if I'm wrong, someone please correct me), and those guys are working hard to get new product out.
Thank you! This is really good news. It just seemed like there was one guy working on stuff for them, then it stopped.
The website just isn't putting anything out.
Star Wars ain't going nowhere. It's here to stay.
I'm absolutely looking forward to the TV series. I'm just worried about the game. Maybe it'll see new life once the tv series comes out....in 2009 (God, I can't believe I have to wait that long).
