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MegaTraveller!!! >:)
Ancients rock! Vilani rock! Hivers rock! Give me my FGMP... Nah, screw that. Give me my Oynssork!
But seriously, I loved their task rules. And DGP's supplements were the best any RPG system has ever gotten.
I whole-heartedly agree. The only trouble I had with MegaTraveller was all of the defense/offense tables for starship combat. The DGP stuff and the task resolution system rocked.
I whole-heartedly agree. The only trouble I had with MegaTraveller was all of the defense/offense tables for starship combat. The DGP stuff and the task resolution system rocked.
I completely agree.
While Traveller starships are way-cool, MT starship rules were either way-complicated, way-crappy, or both. A sad fact for a game that so often centers around space travel.
Chello!
Have to go with either Classic or Mongoose. If you play GURPS, the G-T is excellent, otherwise, no.
And don't get me started on TNE....! ;)
Tony
Having played the original rules, Megatraveller, TNE and GURPS, the best times I have had is playing GURPS Traveller. However, the were all pretty fun.
I don't think there's no best version of the game. If you comfortable with GURPS or d20 rules then Traveller D20 or GURPS Traveller is good.
If you're comfortable with some elements of an apocalyptic setting/time period then the New Era setting might be your cup of tea. If you prefer overall stability in the government then GURPS Traveller or Classic Traveller settings might be more your cup of tea.
Its what you want out of the rules and the setting that make Traveller great.
Mike
I don't think there's no best version of the game. If you comfortable with GURPS or d20 rules then Traveller D20 or GURPS Traveller is good.
I agree. I don't think there's no best version -- which means I think there is a best version -- and it's MT. Just teasing :)
But I find it telling that so very few like TNE -- I'm definitely sticking with it being the worst :P
I don't think there's no best version of the game. If you comfortable with GURPS or d20 rules then Traveller D20 or GURPS Traveller is good.I agree. I don't think there's no best version -- which means I think there is a best version -- and it's MT. Just teasing :)
But I find it telling that so very few like TNE -- I'm definitely sticking with it being the worst :P
I don't think T4 with its half-dice was much better, frankly. But at least it didn't have the post-virus setting. Blech!
(waves) A fan of TNE here. In fact, I picked up several copies of the basic rulesbook.
I really like the breadth of careers available in TNE. I like the sense of adventure, of knowing what used to be out there, but not what's been dying, or growing, out there over the last two generations.
I like the ship-to-ship combat rules (Brilliant Lances, Battle Rider, Striker II). They're clean, they integrate well into the rest of the rules system (unlike every single other version of Traveller before GURPS.)
I liked the Big Mystery carried over from MegaTraveller, the Empress Wave propagating out from the core. (It was supposed to tie psionics together with the Jump drive mechanics in a way that would have opened the Traveller universe up to strange new things.)
I liked the system. It was so much more flexible than the original rules. (And there was, finally, more than that same damned page of psionics rules!)
(And Marc Millar hated it. He hated the idea of people starting a galactic civilization. So he created T4, set in Milieu Zero, where people were starting a galactic civilization. Except with, you know, a lot more typos and crappy editing...)
--+--
I also like the spirit behind the GURPS:Traveller materials.
But not the GURPS 4th Edition TRAVELLER: Interstellar Wars. Pfah. Instead of making Earthlings smart, or industrious, or just lucky, it's made the Vilani just stupid. There are ways of weakening a foe without making them dense.
The fact that it's GURPS 4th Edition doesn't make it go down any better for me.
Well, the MegaTraveller universe was a bloody mess, Tony.
Ther was an issue of Challenge, the GDW house organ, where the authors of TNE explained the reasons behind the shift:
The Problem with original Traveller as the MegaTraveller designers saw it:
- Too staid. Ten thousand stars, and everybody's ship's library had all the statistics on every single planet.
- Too settled. There wasn't much you could so except break laws. You were burglars, thieves, and looters.
- Too much backstory for new players. (Kind of like the reasons WotC just upset the Forgotten Realms.)
The Problems with MegaTraveller as the TNE designers saw it:
- Too chaotic. "If you're going to have a watershed event, don't role-play through it. Narrate it, and role-play the aftermath."
- Too dark. War involves killing. Interplanetary war involves killing planets.
- Too gray. There wasn't a "good" side to play. You picked a faction, and then felt bad when that faction was involved in war crimes and atrocities.
- Too huge and terrible. There wsn't anything that you could actually do to impact the war. So, you were still entertaining yourself shooting people, stealing things, and looting.
So, there we were. The Archduchy of Deneb ("Behind the Claw") was still puttering along, Virus-free and quarantined. The rest of the Third Imperium was now mysterious and ripe for exploration.
As for the system:
MegaTraveller, written by the DGP people, instituted a new system, based on what was then the current Traveller rules, but with new task-management mechanics that were half-written and sort of unplayable. I don't know about you, but everybody I know who tried to play MegaTraveller just went back to using Traveller rules and played with the new univese.
This was okay for Traveller veterans, but not for anyone new to the game who picked it up and tried to actually perform any tasks in the MT system.
And GDW had this other system, originating with Twilight: 2000 and Traveller: 2300, and enriched through development with Dark Conspiracy. This system had been out for a while, worked well, and was generic enough to fit the Traveller universe.
It won Origin Awards. And it was the first version of Traveller that didn't assume that most PCs were retired military officers looking to turn to a life of crime.
But, yeah, Santa Claus in space? That was pretty dumb.
As for the system:MegaTraveller, written by the DGP people, instituted a new system, based on what was then the current Traveller rules, but with new task-management mechanics that were half-written and sort of unplayable. I don't know about you, but everybody I know who tried to play MegaTraveller just went back to using Traveller rules and played with the new univese.
This was okay for Traveller veterans, but not for anyone new to the game who picked it up and tried to actually perform any tasks in the MT system.
And GDW had this other system, originating with Twilight: 2000 and Traveller: 2300, and enriched through development with Dark Conspiracy. This system had been out for a while, worked well, and was generic enough to fit the Traveller universe.
It won Origin Awards. And it was the first version of Traveller that didn't assume that most PCs were retired military officers looking to turn to a life of crime.
See, I hated TNE because it took everything original Traveller and threw it on the dungheap. I suppose a lot of people would say that's where MT was taking it too, but I don't think there was a bit that was completely unsalvageable until TNE was was well under development and the Traveller News Service started steering the MT universe in the TNE direction.
Plus, while there was always a lot of militarism in Traveller, TNE was the edition that was simply too militarized for me. Between the jargon, the default assumption of being in some neo-colonial organization, and the combat system, I was out. Way out, and terribly disappointed.
I certainly see your position, Bill, and there are a lot of people who agreed with you. Which is why I think the Deneb Regency sourcebook came out as far ahead of schedule as it had.
A "Shattered Imperium" with a half-dozen more-or-less stable protectorates, each claiming to be the legitimate heir to the Third Imperium, might have been a fun campaign setting, but I honestly don't think that MegaTraveller could have gotten us there, at least not after the Rebellion Sourcebook came out.
EDIT: So, did you just stick with MT then?
(Oh, and are you, by chance, coming down to ICON over the Halloween weekend?)
I certainly see your position, Bill, and there are a lot of people who agreed with you. Which is why I think the Deneb Regency sourcebook came out as far ahead of schedule as it had.
A "Shattered Imperium" with a half-dozen more-or-less stable protectorates, each claiming to be the legitimate heir to the Third Imperium, might have been a fun campaign setting, but I honestly don't think that MegaTraveller could have gotten us there, at least not after the Rebellion Sourcebook came out.
So, which version of the game have you played?
Classic, MegaTraveller, GURPS, and T20. Interest in the local area seemed to just dry up with TNE. Don't have a copy of Mongoose's version yet. Interested in checking it out.
Another vote for MegaTraveller.
Though Mongoose Traveller and T20 aren't half bad. I even daresay that Gateway to Destiny/995 is one of my favorite Traveller regions/milieus.
I also appreciated GT not for its rules, but some of its supplements, especially First Survey.
TNE and T4 I hate with the burning fury of 1000 spectral class O stars.
MegaTraveller, written by the DGP people, instituted a new system, based on what was then the current Traveller rules, but with new task-management mechanics that were half-written and sort of unplayable. I don't know about you, but everybody I know who tried to play MegaTraveller just went back to using Traveller rules and played with the new univese.
That's 180 degrees out of phase from where I am standing. The task system was anything but half written. It was the perfect combination of comprehensive and easy-to-use. To this day, I think it's one of the most compelling task systems going.
But we had people who took the MT rules and kept chugging away with their no-rebellion universe, plugged it in to CT adventures, etc.
I was never that fond of the T20 system. I love D&D (and now Pathfinder RPG!) but not everything needs to be shoe-horned into the same mechanics framework. I love the Gurps Traveller supplements, but I think going for either a hybrid of CT and MT or trying the new Mongoose rules are probably your best way to go.
lots of good stuff...
Chris:
That was a very good summary of why different things happened. Despite all that, my group stuck with MT through any and all new editions.
The clunky aspects of MT (task system and vehicle/starship rules) weren't a huge problem for us -- I'm pretty good handling MT rules, so the players didn't have to (just a quirk of fate, not because I'm particularly competent with such things; unfortunately, I couldn't play since I was our only Traveller GM). Also, the qualities of the MT universe you mentioned above meshed well with what my group likes.
The reset that TNE represented pretty much wiped away the things we liked, so chances were slim to none that we'd switch -- no matter how good or bad TNE might have been.
To each their own...
For what any of it's worth :)
MegaTraveller, written by the DGP people, instituted a new system, based on what was then the current Traveller rules, but with new task-management mechanics that were half-written and sort of unplayable. I don't know about you, but everybody I know who tried to play MegaTraveller just went back to using Traveller rules and played with the new univese.
That's 180 degrees out of phase from where I am standing. The task system was anything but half written. It was the perfect combination of comprehensive and easy-to-use. To this day, I think it's one of the most compelling task systems going.
I'm (almost) with both of you on this.
I love the task system. I don't think it was 'half-finished,' nor do I think it was a 'perfect combination,' but rather put out by people accustomed to it that didn't appreciate it's shortcomings -- many couldn't quite get the knack of juggling all the factors required to make it work (my guess is that playtesting was mostly internal to DGP & GDW).
But it certainly worked great for me and my group :)
As per above:
What's the best version of Traveller?
GURPS Traveller - best system, best "real" technology imho - it suxx enormously at the non-metric system, what a *$%§ idea (cubic-inches makes my head hurt).
Mongoose is good, but by far not complete enough - and the layout is one of the worst I have seen in the last years. (except maybe the new judges guild books, they are worse).
TNE has a good system, but the background was never my kind of traveller.
If you're new to Traveller you might pick of the new Mongoose rules and the Spinward Marches book. It's faithful to the Classic Traveller setting and the rules are easy to learn and use.
I have the books and I think its an improvement over Classic Traveller since there's an option *not* to have the PCs die in character generation :P
I think there's good points about the TNE and MT settings but the radical changes aren't what attracts me about Traveller. I like Dark Conspiracy so I'm not adverse to the GDW rules but just the TNE setting. I have some of the sourcebooks but only cause I like collecting Traveller materials :)
Mike
If you're new to Traveller you might pick of the new Mongoose rules and the Spinward Marches book. It's faithful to the Classic Traveller setting and the rules are easy to learn and use.
I have the books and I think its an improvement over Classic Traveller since there's an option *not* to have the PCs die in character generation :P
I think there's good points about the TNE and MT settings but the radical changes aren't what attracts me about Traveller. I like Dark Conspiracy so I'm not adverse to the GDW rules but just the TNE setting. I have some of the sourcebooks but only cause I like collecting Traveller materials :)
Mike
Ditto this.
Oh, there was always the option to have your character muster out in the middle of a tour-of-duty with some injury, instead of dying.
My favorite memory of PC death, back when we were playing classic Traveller, was about two hours into the second session, with characters we just loved. Some bad guys had stolen a McGuffin and were headed out-of-system, and we were following a half-hour behind. So our pilot decided to hit Jump Drive while we were still in a planet's gravity radius. Risky, but it would buy us the time we needed.
Roll, roll. Umm. Roll roll; roll roll. Sorry, guys, ship blows up.
And we returned to the character generation tables. And the new characters, whom we didn't love quite so much, never ever tried that maneuver.