I was browsing my Pathfinder Core Book the other night and, as a result of trying to get to know some of the new rules changes, got an idea for a Githyanki BBEG with a Sorcerer Bloodline and a few Pathfinder Cleric Levels.

So I grabbed my trusty Pathfinder Monster Manual and remembered, again to my chagrin, that the stat block for the Githyanki -- my long-time, ALL-Time favorite humanoid in D&D -- isn't allowed in "official" Paizo stuff.

We're the ones actually playing D&D; They're the ones who get the Beholder, Githyanki and Mind Flayer.
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.
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At least, officially.

Isn't it about time a hypothetical "someone" at Paizo came to the Boards and said Hey, we're Pathfinder, we don't have Beholders, Githyanki or Mind Flayers -- but if we did (not saying we do) they might, supposedly, theoretically, have a stat block that looked something like this, kinda:

And then, just for the Boards, and certainly, certainly, only as a theory -- not a suggestion and not officially -- stat block a Beholder, Githyanki and Mind Flayer.

couldnt you just use the beholders, githyanki or mind flayers from the previous edition? isnt it backwards compatible?

Or, if our Paizo heroes can't save the day (not because they don't want to), some of our esteemd Lords of the Boards could do it.

Maybe using this Thread as a suggestion box and series of rough drafts.

Actually, I believe a 3PP somewhere had already devised some 'monsters with the serial number's filed off' to replace said beasties. I know Hugo did a drawing for the Mind Flayer analog.

As for actual Paizo employees coming out with something, I think they've come out against the idea, kinda as a 'respect the IP of our competititors' thing.

Me, I just use the damn 3.5 versions anyway. Not like my games will ever be published, right?

link to Ryan Costello's Mind Flayer analog (the Thought Ripper) & Hugo's drawing of same >HERE<

Ryan's site (with takes on all IP D&D monsters) >Here<

I'm in the same boat with Yuan-Ti, who happen to be high on my personal faves list. I've just been using some slightly-tweaked and updated versions of them from the 3.5 MM with a new name - Ophion, singular Ophia, thank you Greek Mythology - until something equivalent comes out for PF.

Beholder -> Eyedra (Creature Collection 3), basically a hydra crossed with a beholder.

Mind Flayer -> Abollar (Dungeon Crawl Classics #29 The Adventure Begins), basically a half aboleth template, doesn't have mind blast but can be put on a human and given levels of psionic.

Yuan-Ti -> Numerous snake races out there, I'll do a quick collection of what I have later tonight.

Githyanki -> Nothing comes to mind immediately, but as I collect the snake races I'll try to keep an eye out.

I'm in the same boat with Yuan-Ti, who happen to be high on my personal faves list. I've just been using some slightly-tweaked and updated versions of them from the 3.5 MM with a new name - Ophion, singular Ophia, thank you Greek Mythology - until something equivalent comes out for PF.

I thought the Yuan-Ti were mentioned in the Darklands book (or was it the AP?). I do know James mentioned it as a critter that certainly will get the Pathfinder treatment.

In Golarion, the Serepntfolk replace the Yuan-Ti. Quite well, actually.

I remember a pretty good article a year or two ago (or maybe three) on the WotC site where one of the writers re-worker beholders and switched out some of the eye attacks for ones that made more sense. Don't remember what he did, exactly, but I remember liking it at the time. Might be worth looking for to get some inspiration.

EDIT: re-reading my post, I'm pretty sure I contributed pretty much nothing to this discussion ;)

In Golarion, the Serepntfolk replace the Yuan-Ti. Quite well, actually.

And I thought yuan-ti was hard to pronounce :)

Gorbacz wrote:

In Golarion, the Serepntfolk replace the Yuan-Ti. Quite well, actually.

And I thought yuan-ti was hard to pronounce :)

Yoo-ahn-tee? (Though it gets lazy-fied into Yawn-tee more often than not...)

I like what PFWiki has to say about the Serpentfolk, keeps the flavor I was hoping for, but I think I'll be sticking with my name for my games. ;) We already call Fenrin (3.5's Lupins) Wolffolk and the Ophion Serpentfolk, so just need to apply the stats or something.

Now if I could just find a picture.

Gorbacz wrote:

Serepntfolk.

And I thought yuan-ti was hard to pronounce :)

Amethal humor: it takes a village. ;P

I created a workable mind flayer analog. You should check it out.

David Fryer's

Mind Flayer
CR 6 (2,400 XP)
LE Medium Abberation
Init: +3, Senses: Darkvision 60 ft, Low-light Vision, Perception +1
AC: 19, Touch: 13, Flat footed: 16
(+3 Dex, +6 natural)
hp: 52 (8d8+16)
Fort: +8, Ref: +9, Will: +10
Speed: 30 ft
Melee: shortsword +7 (1d6+1/19-20), tentacles +2 (1d4+1)
Ranged: Masterwork light crossbow +10
Special Attacks: Mind Blast (60 ft cone, Will DC 17 or stunned for 3d4 rounds.)
Sorcerer Spells Known: (CL 6)
3rd (4/day) Fireball
2nd (6/day) False Life, Summon Monster II
1st (7/day) Burning Hands, Charm Person (DC 14), Mage Armor, Summon Monster I
Str 12, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 12, Wisdom !2, Cha 16
Base Atk: +6, CMB: +9, CMD 20
Feats: Agile Maneuvers, Combat Casting, Combat Reflexes, Eschew Materials, Spell Focus (Evocation)
Skills: Diplomacy +15, Knowledge (Arcana) +12, Spellcraft +12
Languages: Common, Undercommon
Enviroment: Underground
Organization: Solitary, Pair, Coven (3-12)
Treasure: Standard

That's the one.

My Yuan-Ti analog

Sthein
CR 4 (1,200 XP)
Usually CG Large Monsterous Humanoid
Init:+2, Senses: Darkvision 60 ft, Low-light Vision, Perception +3
AC: 17, Touch: 10, Flat footed: 16
(+1 Dex, +7 natural, -1 size)
Fort: +6, Ref: +9, Will: +6
Speed: 40 ft
Melee: masterwork ranseur +6 (2d4+3/x3), bite +1 (1d6+2 plus poison)
Special Attacks: Posion (Injury, Fortitude DC 15, Inital and secondary 1d4 Con)
Sorcerer Spells Known (CL 4): 1st (5/day)-Cause Fear (DC 13)
0-Detect Magic, Daze (DC 12), Flare, Ray of Frost
Str 15, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 15
Base Atk: +4, CMB +6, CMD: 18
Feats: Alertness, Combat Casting
Skills: Perception +3, Sense Mtive +10, Spellcraft +7
Languages: Common, Elven
SQ: Alternate Form
Enviroment: Warm forests
Organization: Solitary, Pair, Family (3-10)
Treasure: Standard
Alternate Form (Su): Sthein have the inate ability to assume humanoid form. They can assume the unique form of a humanoid of elven origin. their tail is replaced by a pair of legs, but otherwise they have the same apperance and coloration as their natural form.

I thought Paizo meant for the the intellect devourer (and those worms with arms) to replace the Mind Flayer and the Denizens of Leng to replace the Githyanki?

My Yuan-Ti analog

Sthein
CR 4 (1,200 XP)
Usually CG Large Monsterous Humanoid

Good? Heh, interesting.

Any particular reason they're Large? Or is this comparable more to the Halfbloods/Abominations? I mostly focused on the Purebloods myself.

David Fryer wrote:

My Yuan-Ti analog

Sthein
CR 4 (1,200 XP)
Usually CG Large Monsterous Humanoid

Good? Heh, interesting.

Any particular reason they're Large? Or is this comparable more to the Halfbloods/Abominations? I mostly focused on the Purebloods myself.

They are large because they cambine the traits of elves and nagas. However, in their alternate humanoid form the revert to being medium sized. Thuse pureblood yuan-ti would just be sthein in their humanoid form.

Coolness then.

@Pres Man: I like Rokugan Naga, statistically, and tweaking them to work with Pathfinder shouldn't be too hard. Are they Open Content, though? If so I think I'll just use them rather than go with a Yuan-Ti bastardization. :)

Folks looking for snaky people in Golarion should check out "Into the Darklands," for the serpentfolks. Or barring that, wait until next August when we launch the "Serpent's Skull" adventure path, which is set in the jungles of the Mwangi Expanse and has a LOT to do with the serpentfolk.

Eeeeeeexcellent.

Coolness then.

@Pres Man: I like Rokugan Naga, statistically, and tweaking them to work with Pathfinder shouldn't be too hard. Are they Open Content, though? If so I think I'll just use them rather than go with a Yuan-Ti bastardization. :)

I am no lawyer, so be careful listening to me. But I believe the stats in Creatures of Rokugan is OGL, from what I could tell glancing at the text. You might have to rename, I don't know for sure.

Folks looking for snaky people in Golarion should check out "Into the Darklands," for the serpentfolks. Or barring that, wait until next August when we launch the "Serpent's Skull" adventure path, which is set in the jungles of the Mwangi Expanse and has a LOT to do with the serpentfolk.

Any chance of seeing a dragon with an affinty for snakes in the AP?

I created a workable mind flayer analog. You should check it out.

Given it's mind blast and fireball capabilities, wouldn't it be more suitable to rename him the mind fryer instead?

*tap*

Back to my regular day job.

;)

But seriously, looks cool.

David Fryer wrote:

the mind fryer

8D

Orthos wrote:

Coolness then.

@Pres Man: I like Rokugan Naga, statistically, and tweaking them to work with Pathfinder shouldn't be too hard. Are they Open Content, though? If so I think I'll just use them rather than go with a Yuan-Ti bastardization. :)

I am no lawyer, so be careful listening to me. But I believe the stats in Creatures of Rokugan is OGL, from what I could tell glancing at the text. You might have to rename, I don't know for sure.

I don't think the name Naga can be copyrighted, as it's an ancient mythical creature, just like you can't copyright Greek and Norse gods and the monsters and people in their legends.

I was mostly worried about if there was going to be trouble with borrowing the stats and converting/upgrading them to Pathfinder level. I'll have a double-check over the text when I get home. Thanks!

Orthos, let me know what you find, as I've had Creatures of Rokugan sitting in my cart, assuming that it's worded the same way the rest of their products were.

Turns out I don't have it - I have Rokugan Campaign Setting and Oriental Adventures but not Creatures of Rokugan. Both of those are "restricted by copyright law" so I assume that means not-Open Content.

I'll have to double check my copy at home, but IIRC the "Creatures of Rokugan" was not completely open. I seem to remember it uses the lame "Only the rules bits are open, not the monster's name" version of "open" content. But I could be wrong. They might also not be open at all... can't remember if they had some sort of weird special non-open license with WotC like Kenzer did.

I seem to remember it uses the lame "Only the rules bits are open, not the monster's name" version of "open" content.

I can understand that in the case of Flayers and Beholders and other things originally created by the D&D teams, but it wouldn't make much sense to me for this situation where the critters in question have mythological origin. But maybe that's because legalese gives me a headache in the first place.

I'll have to double check my copy at home, but IIRC the "Creatures of Rokugan" was not completely open. I seem to remember it uses the lame "Only the rules bits are open, not the monster's name" version of "open" content. But I could be wrong. They might also not be open at all... can't remember if they had some sort of weird special non-open license with WotC like Kenzer did.

Well, I can rename creatures pretty easily, as relatively lame as that is. I've recently gotten Way of Shugenja and Magic of Rokugan, and they were mostly open except for names, world-specific stuff, and such like.

I love these threads. This one got me to make a degenerate serpent folk-abollar-psychic(empath)-soulknife to use in my Freeport Trilogy game. That half-illithid lizardfolk miniature will make a great representation.

Lessee...the Mind Flayer (aka Illithid) is an original work of WoTC, I mean TSR, uh, I mean HP Lovercraft, uh I mean Japanese folklore. I, too, went looking for the Mind Flayer in my newly acquired copy of the Beastiary only to find it wasn't there. I immediately assumed it was due to IP infringement rules. OF COURSE I have created my own version. After 31 years of gaming as a die-hard D&D RPGer, I have made the switch to PF and have not looked back, nor will I. 'D&D' is dead. WoTC killed it. Nuff said.

I may post my version here if anyone would be interested. I have stuck as true as possible to the original, but changed a few things (non-psionic for one as I have yet to see anything from PF regarding psionics). I must say, this version of the Mind Flayer is scary dangerous compared to the WoTC version.