So, a friend of mine and I were at our FLGS this weekend, and I was perusing the used books, and found a copy of the 1st Edition Deities & Demigods for $3.00. It's a second printing, so it still contains the Cthulhu and Melnibone stuff, but it's got the credit to Chaosium in it.

For $3.00, I couldn't go wrong, as it was in great shape.

My buddy took a look at it didn't have the Christian Mythos in it, which he claims the first printing had.

I've heard this rumor before, but never found any truth in it - supposedly, the actual first printing is identical to the second printing, save for that credit to Chaosium page 4.

My friend swears that he's personally seen a copy that had the Christian Mythos in it. I'm inclined to think he might be confusing a couple of books, because I could have sworn that I've seen a book from that era with the stuff in it, but that it wasn't Deities & Demigods.

Anyone able to shed some light on this? Perhaps you've got a first printing of the book?

Try www.acaeum.com. They should have the answers you seek somewhere.
I cannot imagine that they used christian religion at any time, besides the cleric being modeled vaguely after fighting monks/crusader knights.

Stefan

No, the first printing didn't have a "Christian Mythos". Closest it came was the "Arthurian Mythos". I have the first printing in my lap as we speak, and have owned three different copies other than this one over the years, so, unless it was written in invisible ink...

Maybe he's thinking of Fantasy Wargaming?

My buddy took a look at it didn't have the Christian Mythos in it, which he claims the first printing had.

Nope, different book and not even produced by TSR.

You had me going for a second there... :-)

-That One Digitalelf Fellow-

There was a ton of stuff came out from Judges' Guild in the 1970s, including more than a few focussed on gods and demons of real-world myth. They did an adventure based in Dante's Inferno, which, I'm sure, would have needed those stats.

There was an article in Dragon Mag (I remember it most from the Best Of vol. 2? Or was it 1?) - same one that had the Anti-Paladin. In that it has the stats for "Satan" and some christian mythos from the "bad guys" point of view.

Only thing that comes to mind.

S.

Anyone able to shed some light on this? Perhaps you've got a first printing of the book?

From the rec.games.frp.dnd FAQ, question E8 (long ago I contributed to this answer):

E8: What was removed from Deities & Demigods?

A: The first printing of Deities & Demigods included the mythoi of
Cthulhu and Melnibone. The ideas behind the Cthulhu mythos were in the
public domain at that time, but copyright on the Cthulhu books in print
was owned by Arkham House, who had licensed Chaosium to create a Cthulhu
RPG based on those books. TSR thought the public domain status allowed
them to create game representations of whatever Cthulhu creatures they
desired, and so that mythos was added to Deities & Demigods. TSR then
contacted Michael Moorcock, who gave permission for TSR to include the
Melnibonean mythos in Deities & Demigods. However, again, Chaosium had
already arranged for a license to create an Elric RPG. Chaosium became
upset that TSR was apparently violating Chaosium's licenses, and the
print run of Deities & Demigods was halted while the two companies sat
down to talk. Eventually, they agreed that TSR could continue printing
the books with the two mythoi as is, on the condition that a note be
added to the preface: "Special thanks are given to Chaosium, Inc. for
permission to use the material found in the Cthulhu Mythos and the
Melnibonean Mythos." The printing plates were changed, and the first
printing continued.
When the time for a second printing came, the Blume brothers decided
that a TSR book should not contain such a prominent reference to one
of their competitors. They decided to remove the two mythoi, and thus
the need for the note. (Apparently, Gary Gygax offered to write up
two new mythoi to fill the space, but the Blumes decided they could make
more money charging the same price for a book with fewer pages.) They
removed the two mythoi, but forgot to remove the note on the next
print run of the book, though the note was removed for the following
print run. Later, the book--still without the two mythoi and the
note--was republished under the name "Legends & Lore."
When Legends & Lore was updated to 2nd ed. AD&D, several more
mythoi were removed, namely the Babylonian, Finnish, Nonhuman, and
Sumerian mythoi; the Central American mythos was renamed the Aztec
mythos. Contrary to rumor, the Newhon mythos was never removed, and,
in fact, was included in the 2nd ed. L&L, probably due to the fact
that it is TSR who owns the license to produce Lankhmar materials.
The deities of the nonhumans were reintroduced in Monster Mythology.

The DDG book (or L&L) has *never* had the "Christian mythology" in it. Your friend may be thinking of an old, old issue of Dragon that gave D&D stats for the God of the Bible.

Thanks all for the responses!!

Stefan Hill/Sean: Any idea which issue of Dragon that might have been?

I'm going to need to dig up my Dragon Magazine Archive CD set from storage...

you wouldnt happen to be from albuquerque would you?

Thanks all for the responses!!

Stefan Hill/Sean: Any idea which issue of Dragon that might have been?

Brian E. Harris wrote:

Thanks all for the responses!!

Stefan Hill/Sean: Any idea which issue of Dragon that might have been?

In the 20s, 30s, or 40s, that's the most I can narrow it down to, sorry.

Fortunately, I went crazy a few years ago and purchased a ton of those folding-lid storage totes, and re-organized all my storage, so finding the software totes was easy, and I recovered my Dragon archive!

I'll let ya'll know which issue it is when I find it!

Thanks!

you wouldnt happen to be from albuquerque would you?

cool.

why i asked: i have moved from there, and in the process, i have been trying to reduce my footprint. i took six boxes of gaming stuff to active imagination, and traded it for a ph2. i had this book in those boxes.

it would have been interesting to talk to whoever got my book.

cool.

why i asked: i have moved from there, and in the process, i have been trying to reduce my footprint. i took six boxes of gaming stuff to active imagination, and traded it for a ph2. i had this book in those boxes.

it would have been interesting to talk to whoever got my book.

Not that the book is an uber-rare worth billions, but, dang...

They basically gave you $20.

I need to hang my shingle out to start buying peoples collections, I see too many of these stories where a large collection is sold for next to nothing.

Check out Best of Drag. Mag II. That has the stuff you are looking for.

S.

Brian E. Harris wrote:

My buddy took a look at it didn't have the Christian Mythos in it, which he claims the first printing had.

Nope, different book and not even produced by TSR. I is called "The new Testament". Seems to be kind of anthology with 4 authors contributing most of the stuff. As far as know this is a system neutral book because there are now stats as far as I know.
If you ask me they stole a lot of ideas from D&D. There are Angels, Demons and Devils (though they mix both up).
There is a prequel for this Book with the name "The old Testament". I prefer this one as there is more action. But again they lifted some ideas from D&D (e.g the sticks to snakes spell this Moses guy uses).

Brian E. Harris wrote:

My buddy took a look at it didn't have the Christian Mythos in it, which he claims the first printing had.

Nope, different book and not even produced by TSR. I is called "The new Testament". Seems to be kind of anthology with 4 authors contributing most of the stuff. As far as know this is a system neutral book because there are now stats as far as I know.
If you ask me they stole a lot of ideas from D&D. There are Angels, Demons and Devils (though they mix both up).
There is a prequel for this Book with the name "The old Testament". I prefer this one as there is more action. But again they lifted some ideas from D&D (e.g the sticks to snakes spell this Moses guy uses).

Brian E. Harris wrote:

Thanks all for the responses!!

Stefan Hill/Sean: Any idea which issue of Dragon that might have been?

In the 20s, 30s, or 40s, that's the most I can narrow it down to, sorry.

donnald johnson wrote:

cool.

They basically gave you $20.

I need to hang my shingle out to start buying peoples collections, I see too many of these stories where a large collection is sold for next to nothing.

there was probably 6 or 7 hundred dollars worth of stuff in the boxes. alot of uber rare stuff, alot of old, mint condition avalon hill games, some tsr stuff still in the shrink wrap.

i wasnt concerned about the money, i just wanted it to go to a good home, and to help out my flgs. plus, i went from a large house to a small appartment. no room, havent looked at the stuff in years, i mostly just kept core stuff for dnd (minus 2nd edition, hated it) a few war games.

i also got rid of stuff that i could get as pdf. such as twilight 2000, traveler, etc, or stuff that i could replicate with d20 modern or d20 future. i also kept my top secret stuff. all my dragon and dungeon mags, etc. oh, and i also kept my nearly complete collection of od&d (im missing eldrich wizardry, so, if anybody has an extra copy, send it my way).

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

Brian E. Harris wrote:

Thanks all for the responses!!

Stefan Hill/Sean: Any idea which issue of Dragon that might have been?

In the 20s, 30s, or 40s, that's the most I can narrow it down to, sorry.

I found stats for Satan, Belial and Astaroth in issue 28, but haven't found the Big Guy or JC yet. :|

S.

I think I might know the book that you are speaking about. It was called Fantasy Wargaming by Bruce Galloway (1982). It had most of your devils stated out, and most of the saints, angels, all the way up to God. This book was crusty as can be and had about 200 pages of charts so small you needed a ruler and a magnifying glass to keep track of what was going on. Hope this helps, and long live Pathfinder!!!

-Gear

First time poster, old school gamer.

I had that Fantasy Wargaming book, but I know there is an old issue of Dragon that talks about angels in a Judeo-Christian context.

I had that Fantasy Wargaming book, but I know there is an old issue of Dragon that talks about angels in a Judeo-Christian context.

Stefan

Brian E. Harris wrote:

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

Brian E. Harris wrote:

Thanks all for the responses!!

Stefan Hill/Sean: Any idea which issue of Dragon that might have been?

In the 20s, 30s, or 40s, that's the most I can narrow it down to, sorry.

I found stats for Satan, Belial and Astaroth in issue 28, but haven't found the Big Guy or JC yet. :|

And you won't. While it was deemed appropriate to "stat-erize" the team down under, those up stairs were left out.

S.

I had that Fantasy Wargaming book, but I know there is an old issue of Dragon that talks about angels in a Judeo-Christian context.

I found that particular issue last night/night before.

I'll find it when I get home tonight and let you know which issue that is.

Maybe I skimmed over what I'm looking for in that article? We'll see.

I think I might know the book that you are speaking about. It was called Fantasy Wargaming by Bruce Galloway (1982). It had most of your devils stated out, and most of the saints, angels, all the way up to God. This book was crusty as can be and had about 200 pages of charts so small you needed a ruler and a magnifying glass to keep track of what was going on. Hope this helps, and long live Pathfinder!!!

-Gear

First time poster, old school gamer.

Had lots of oddball things such as conjuring your own ghost. Neat read even if I'd never use it for anything.

cool.

it would have been interesting to talk to whoever got my book.

I have that book. It's one of the most bent things I've ever run into. (not very appealing for female gamers as one of the rules stating that Female characters can only be Nuns sort of deal. I think he broke into the Vatican or some old pilgrim library to reansact their Exorcist Dictum or something like that.

Had lots of oddball things such as conjuring your own ghost. Neat read even if I'd never use it for anything.