I need to discuss with my fellow GM, but at the moment I will probably run COCT using the rules in this. I was highly impressed with this and haven't fully gone through it yet. I suspect my fellow GM for our group will get more out of it than I will as he's much more into character building than I am.

I'd love to read how a Experimental Wizard plays in an actual game - anyone know if one of Monte's players ever posted anything like that, or Monte himself?

I'd love to read how a Experimental Wizard plays in an actual game - anyone know if one of Monte's players ever posted anything like that, or Monte himself?

2 points:

(1) Be careful ordering from One Book Shelf (Drivethrurpg, etc.) My credit card information was lifted immediately after ordering and now I have to close down the account and switch credit cards.

(2) I don't understand why Monte Cook doesn't make more of his stuff Open Content. There's no reason to have Chapter 2 and 4 be completely closed, some of that material is already open content, but he's trying to protect absolutely everything he can. It makes it a lot less usable.

Yeah, I got my credit card info stolen from RPG Shop about a year and a half ago. They sent me an E-mail, basically saying sorry crap happens. I'll have to check the card now that I ordered from RPGNow.com since Drivethru and them are the same company now.

Lord Zeb wrote:

I'd love to read how a Experimental Wizard plays in an actual game - anyone know if one of Monte's players ever posted anything like that, or Monte himself?

I don't know, but you could look on montecook.com, where his forums are. I'd guess that his players post there, so if they haven't written about the variant yet, they might if you ask for it.

Haven't read it all..but there is a player using the alternate wizard:

Monte's site

2 points:

(1) Be careful ordering from One Book Shelf (Drivethrurpg, etc.) My credit card information was lifted immediately after ordering and now I have to close down the account and switch credit cards.

Other that that, I printed the pdf yesterday and had it bound as well. So, I´m at about 11,30 Euros for the whole thing, that´s still ok.

Stefan

2 points:

(1) Be careful ordering from One Book Shelf (Drivethrurpg, etc.) My credit card information was lifted immediately after ordering and now I have to close down the account and switch credit cards.

Did this happen recently?

I wonder if using PayPal (and then using your credit card to pay for the PayPal transaction) will make it safer.

A couple more "preview points" for those that may not be sure if they want to purchase this: (Note, I am neither trying to claim these are good, or bad. Just pointing them out.)

I skimmed the first few levels of the Wizard Spell List and I noticed a few things.

1) Magic Missile and Scorching Ray appear to be removed completely - or at least, aren't within the first 6 levels.
2) Lightning Bolt can be gained at 5th Level, but Fireball waits until 6th Level.
3) There are quite a few new spells. Under a traditional system, I would recommend dividing the new spell level in half as a baseline of what level the spell should be. It may then need to be adjusted up or down a level.

I like the presentation. Monte Cook explains a lot of his reasoning. For those areas, if you do not agree with his reasoning, you know ahead of time that you probably won't like the changes.

There are quite a few gems hidden in there. But if adopted whole cloth, so to speak, it does make for a drastically different feeling game.

Not sure if I like the whole discipline thing, although they might be cool as a new type of feat (since you have to spend feat slots for them anyway). Also it doesn't address non-core classes, so you would have wizards that can throw eldritch bolts and warlocks that can throw eldritch bolts (although the mechanics are different).
I do like the hit point bonus with health and grace, don't know about the 20 levels of spells. Not a bad idea but if you use spells from other sources then you have to go through and recalculate their levels (not sure if the end result is worth it for myself).
He does say in the book, that you simple divide the current spell level and then adjust up or down.
Not sure about the whole feat every level, but I've been resently giving them out every other level so it might not be that big of a deal for my campaign (and haven't had any problems so far).
Just my 2 cents.

One thing that also bears mentioning: He'll put the book out on Lulu.com, which means that for the parents among us who get most our reading done on the Porcelain Throne, there's hope.

A couple more "preview points" for those that may not be sure if they want to purchase this: (Note, I am neither trying to claim these are good, or bad. Just pointing them out.)

I skimmed the first few levels of the Wizard Spell List and I noticed a few things.

1) Magic Missile and Scorching Ray appear to be removed completely - or at least, aren't within the first 6 levels.

Not sure if I like the whole discipline thing, although they might be cool as a new type of feat (since you have to spend feat slots for them anyway). Also it doesn't address non-core classes, so you would have wizards that can throw eldritch bolts and warlocks that can throw eldritch bolts (although the mechanics are different).

They are replaced with the Eldritch Bolt discipline power (although the mechanics are slightly different from Magic Missile). If one were to not use the disciplines it should be easy to put the two spells back in the list (I'd probably put MM at 1st level and SR at 3rd level).

My own personal opinion... I've never understood the fascination with the Warlock - is it because he's connected with entities most foul? That latent wish in so many people to play someone who's mysterious and might just be evil?

Oh, and another preview: I really like the familiar variant. It would take a little work to shoehorn it into a standard game... But it makes familiars "worth it" to me.

My own personal opinion... I've never understood the fascination with the Warlock - is it because he's connected with entities most foul? That latent wish in so many people to play someone who's mysterious and might just be evil?

GentleGiant wrote:

My own personal opinion... I've never understood the fascination with the Warlock - is it because he's connected with entities most foul? That latent wish in so many people to play someone who's mysterious and might just be evil?

My warlocks have always taken the fey-oriented route, personally. Take the moderate Fey bloodline from UA (major bloodline actually starts replicating most of the Warlock's class abilities!) to make it even more apparent. I prefer humans, but an Elven fey-based Warlock has definite potential, too.

They're not open content, but a killoren (Races of the Wild) makes a very interesting warlock. The only problem I have with fey-based warlocks is rewriting the flavor text on most of the invocations; the great majority assume a lower-planar origin.

And definitely agreed on the lower-planar origins, which is odd since the flavor-text for the base-class specifically states "many warlocks are created by non-evil sources."

Not sure if I like the whole discipline thing, although they might be cool as a new type of feat (since you have to spend feat slots for them anyway).

Also it doesn't address non-core classes, so you would have wizards that can throw eldritch bolts and warlocks that can throw eldritch bolts (although the mechanics are different).

He couldn't address them even if he wanted, since wizards doesn't let anyone use the warlock and other classes.

I'd say, though, that the warlock becomes mostly obsolete with this system, since the wizard will already be the arcanist who can blast away all day. It's easy to hourserule one with Cha instead of int - and the infernal pact stuff is just flavour.

don't know about the 20 levels of spells. Not a bad idea but if you use spells from other sources then you have to go through and recalculate their levels (not sure if the end result is worth it for myself).

Not sure about the whole feat every level, but I've been resently giving them out every other level so it might not be that big of a deal for my campaign (and haven't had any problems so far).

1)Magic Missile and Scorching Ray appear to be removed completely - or at least, aren't within the first 6 levels.

They're not the only spells left out:

Many are left out because there are disciplines doing basically the same thing as the spell, but some are left out because Monte didn't like them and their effect on the game. He said (/wrote) that if you don't agree, it would be easy enough to put them back in.

2) Lightning Bolt can be gained at 5th Level, but Fireball waits until 6th Level.

3) There are quite a few new spells. Under a traditional system, I would recommend dividing the new spell level in half as a baseline of what level the spell should be. It may then need to be adjusted up or down a level.

But you're right: It's very easy to convert them to the standard 0-9 range: Just look what spell level is the highest a character of that level could cast and you have your spell level:

So there's a Wizard 13 spell? A 13th-level wizard knows 7th-level spells, so that spell is sor/wiz 7 in standard d20.

One thing that also bears mentioning: He'll put the book out on Lulu.com, which means that for the parents among us who get most our reading done on the Porcelain Throne, there's hope.

But I have access to a laser printer (not that they're expensive - even the colour laser printers aren't that expensive any more, at least the entry-level models) and an ink-jet one for covers.

I also have a thermal binding machine (cost me 10 tacken). It's a bit of work, of course, but not that much. I have so far used it on my house rules, on the Book of Experimental Might, and the Complete Book of Eldritch Might. Got another couple of PDF's I'll give the same treatment, too.

Anyway, with the disciplines (especially the Eldritch Bolt) the Warlock becomes somewhat obsolete and you could easily make a Wizard with the same background.

This thread prompted me to pull out my Unearthed Arcana . . . something I don't look at near enough. There are some sweet rules in there that could invariably add to the gaming experience of 3.5 without proving to be too cumbersome. I like the Item Familiar and already have something similar in my campaign. I was interested in the spell recharge rule, but it seems a bit imbalanced. Anyone try the latter in their campaign? Thoughts?

The Disciplines idea is just sweet. I immediately caught myself dreaming up new Discipline ideas (one based on illusion, for instance, starting with simple fake-looking black and white images or ghost sounds, and increasing in complexity and scope with enhancements), and had to stop myself and get back to reading.

I do agree with the criticism that it doesn't do much for Fighters and Rogues, compared to the coolness it bestows upon casters, but, IMO, Monte's work has always been stronger in the spellcasting areas.

The only problem I have with fey-based warlocks is rewriting the flavor text on most of the invocations; the great majority assume a lower-planar origin.

Perhaps an Invocation that allows the Warlock to summon up a Fey Wolf type critter (only one at a time), or even a pack of same (as a Dark Invocation, Call the Wild Hunt, with a bunch of Shadow-template Wolves and perhaps even a Shadow-template Stag for the Warlock to ride!).

The Disciplines idea is just sweet. I immediately caught myself dreaming up new Discipline ideas (one based on illusion, for instance, starting with simple fake-looking black and white images or ghost sounds, and increasing in complexity and scope with enhancements), and had to stop myself and get back to reading.

I do agree with the criticism that it doesn't do much for Fighters and Rogues, compared to the coolness it bestows upon casters, but, IMO, Monte's work has always been stronger in the spellcasting areas.

Any idea how much Lulu will charge for dead tree? And are the other Books of Might on there? Boy it would be nice to have a dead tree Tome of Horrors....

Any idea how much Lulu will charge for dead tree? And are the other Books of Might on there? Boy it would be nice to have a dead tree Tome of Horrors....

And, blessings from on high, they don't use that foul-smelling ink / glossy streaky paper combination that seems to be cropping up every now and again. So nice to open a book and not recoil, eyes watering.

I also picked up Elements of Magic Revised and a few of it's sequels. All done up very nicely. I'd never used print-on-demand before, and, in my grognard fashion, didn't expect much from it. My bad!

I do agree with the criticism that it doesn't do much for Fighters and Rogues, compared to the coolness it bestows upon casters, but, IMO, Monte's work has always been stronger in the spellcasting areas.

I think the Book of Iron Might is probably the weakest of the series and the stunts are needlessly complex, but some of the feats and other choices are nice. It was actually with the Book of Iron Might that I realized I wasn't fond of Mike Mearl's work. He is a good designer for what he does, I just haven't found his design work always fits my needs.

I really like the His Dark Materials inspired familiar. The idea is something I think is a long time coming for D&D.

The disciplines are very cool and I can see those getting a ton of use in my game.

Feats every level threw me at first. Then, as I started to think about it, the concept didn't bother me that much. It seems so powerful but its probably not half as extreme as I think it is. I think you would need to watch the requirements for prestige classes and how that plays in the game. Otherwise, the opportunity to swap feats is nifty.

I really like the His Dark Materials inspired familiar. The idea is something I think is a long time coming for D&D.

Feats every level threw me at first. Then, as I started to think about it, the concept didn't bother me that much. It seems so powerful but its probably not half as extreme as I think it is. I think you would need to watch the requirements for prestige classes and how that plays in the game. Otherwise, the opportunity to swap feats is nifty.

I play a fair amount of M&M2E, where the basic super-hero has 150 points to spend on abilities and Feats only cost 1 pt each, so a Martial Artist with 30 different Feats is in no way ridiculous.