I am frustrated. I need to figure out what the perception out there in the general public is because I feel like my view has been skewed by my group.
I'm not looking for the best numbers possible, just what is expected and usual for a normal game without munchkinism or over-optimization.

What should a high AC be for PCs at 5th level? 10th level? 15th level?

What should a high 'to hit' bonus be for PCs at 5th level? Etc? Etc?

What should high spell DCs be for PCs at 5th level? Etc? Etc?

What should high damage output without a crit be for PCs at 5th level? 10th level? 15th level?

I fear my groups numbers are way off and I want to verify it. Please help me see what is really going on out there. I would love to see a response from James Jacobs or one of the other Paizo crew to see where they sit in this stuff.

Thanks all.

What should a high [total modifier] be for PCs at 5th level? 10th level? 15th level?

I suggest you consider 6th, 12th and 18th level. Why the "minor" change? Because these are the levels at which spellcasters and magic-item enchanters gain bumps. For example, +1 every 3rd level is a common armor, shield or weapon bonus.

This should be easy to ball-park. At 6th level, assume a character has "Good" or "Best" base advancement and a "Prime Requisite" Ability stat of 17 (16 at 1st level, bumped at 4th). Then give them +2 for a magic item adjustment and another average +3 (could be +2 to +4) from a pair of stacking spell buffs that don't overlap magic item enhancements, Feats or whatever else.

Thus, a Fighter's total Attack Bonus comes in at +14 (+11 without spell buffs) at 6th level, with AC for a "tank" in full plate and large shield but only 12 Dex. coming in at 26.

Obviously, min/maxers and optimizers will find ways to vastly exceed these values, but I think this process will yield good "baseline" results.

HTH,

Rez

P.S. Many groups will have much higher Spell Buffs, but doing so is a choice that reduces spells available for other purposes, from blasting to healing, thus my choice to include only a +3 "average" as a baseline.

I'm currently running a group of mostly 5th-6th level characters. Their ACs vary from 14 to 32 depending upon individual Class, armor, buff, enchantment and use of Defensive FIghting/Full Defense action selections.

What should a high AC be for PCs at 5th level? 10th level? 15th level?

What should a high 'to hit' bonus be for PCs at 5th level? Etc? Etc?

I'm not sure about the others, but at 4th level, the best attack bonus I've seen was +10, and an AC of 22 was considered as good as it gets.

Sorry to Jump into a thread on an unrelated topic but I'll make it quick!....

Rezdave,

I read an old post of yours about Sterich and would love some advice. I am running a campaign based around Istivin dealing with the giant invasion then eventually liberation of Sterich. I would love any input! Here is my email so as not to disrupt the current topic. zagyg591@hotmail.com

Sorry again for interrupting on an unrelated subject.

Crits get wonky fast. I've built a falchion wielding leap attack power attack ranger/warmage/arcane heirophant who was commonly called "the Comet" because he would drop quickened true strikes to power attack for the world. Right out the gate at level 4, a good crit could break 30 points of damage easy. By 20th level, I never missed, and was breaking 250 on a crit if I "set it up" for a round.

In my SCAP game, a PC version of Todd Vanderboren, as a simple rogue/assasin, is regularily breaking 50 points on critting sneak attacks at level 14. He also crits all the time thanks to a keen rapier.

I've also seen a level 1 barbarian crit for 40 points of damage with a greataxe.

Crits are hard to measure, because so many variables affect them. There are more feats that affect crits than there are feats for attack bonus or AC bonus. The flip side is how a lot of spells can be used to ramp up attack bonus and AC, but a relative handful exist for crits.

Regarding attack bonus, you also have to consider the individual, and the individual in the group. Consider what the fighter can reach by himself (base attack + str + weapon ehancement + feats) and then add what he can reach with assitance from the party (bardic music/jester quip/divine spells + flanking + aid another from ally/summoned creature + dexterity of foe denied due to grapple+ etc etc etc).

I had a group of 4 3rd level characters take down an Ogre Warblade who's AC was initially 25. The best attack bonus was the rogue, who had an attack bonus of +6 at the time due to weapon finesse and a masterwork short sword. But after bardic music (+1), a tanglefoot bag (AC -2), the bard moving to flank and aid another (+4), the wizard casting grease (AC -4), and the fighter grappling and electing to make a gauntlet attack to aid another (no attacks of opp and +2) , the rogue made mincemeat out of him as his "effective" AC was now 19 against a +13, from the origional 25 vrs +6.

In all honesty, munchkins can make crazy stats, but its TEAMWORK that breaks the game wide open. Which, in my opinion, is the way it was designed to be.

I would say reasonable, but unbuffed, would be:

Attack Bonus: 5th level +10, 10th level +18, 15th level +27
AC: 5th level 22, 10th level 27, 15th level 32
Spell DC: 5th level 15, 10th level 19, 15th level 23

A character could easily get a bit higher with optimization, and quite a bit higher by adding in buffs.

The following assumes a standard 3e game, where PCs get regular access to all the basic magical items which the CR system assumes that they will have.

What should a high AC be for PCs at 5th level? 10th level? 15th level?

I assume an average AC to be +1 per level/CR, with a baseline dependent on class/role. For example a 20th level fighter will be wearing a set of full-powered items: full plate (+13), a nat AC item (+5), a deflection AC item (+5), and a shield or shield-like item (+7). So a high AC would be 40ish.

What should a high 'to hit' bonus be for PCs at 5th level? Etc? Etc?

For a PC, high AB is about Level X 1-1/2, plus starting stats. So a 20th level fighter would have a starting stat of 15, a +20 BAB, a +5 weapon, +10 for magical stat boosters and +5 for level stat boosters, for a total BAB of +35ish.

For a monster, high AB is CR X 1-1/2 to CR X 2.

What should high spell DCs be for PCs at 5th level? Etc? Etc?

A 20th level caster would have a total stat bonus of +10 (15 to start, +5 level, +10 magic) and a base DC of 20 (I like to round up as if 10th level spells existed, just because it's a nice round number), for a total DC of 30ish. So about (Level X 3/4) + 12.

What should high damage output without a crit be for PCs at 5th level? 10th level? 15th level?

Well assuming the weapon is doing about 5 base damage, I'd tack on another 5 for the enhancement bonus, 20 for oddball weapon enchantments and 10 for Strength. So that's a total of 40 damage at 20th level, and about (Level X 1-1/2) + 5 overall.

High monster damage is through the roof, I don't even want to go there.

I fear my groups numbers are way off and I want to verify it. Please help me see what is really going on out there. I would love to see a response from James Jacobs or one of the other Paizo crew to see where they sit in this stuff.

Thanks all.

Mind telling us why exactly you fear your group's numbers are off?