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One of the changes that we are considering for our group is favored class. As written, it is more of a penalty than a bonus. Our change is to add a +2 bonus on 2 skills at first level with an additional +1 every 5 levels as well as an additional class skill. For example, elven wizards gain a bonus on Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft with Balance as a class skill. Humans may choose any skills.
I would greatly appreciate feedback on this idea, both from the staff and community.
Thanks,
Dan
This alteration seems unnecessary to me and I find a little bit of possibility for abuse. Halflings, in particular, would presumably get bonuses to skills associated with their favored class (rogue) as well. Imagine a rogue with a +4 size bonus to Hide, max ranks for his level, a Skill Focus in Hide, and your +2 'racial' bonus at 1st level. Assuming a 14 Dexterity, you've got a +15 bonus to Hide at level ONE. The Skill Focus might be a little extreme, but even without it you've got a +12 skill modifier on a 14 Dex and, let's face it, with a +2 racial Dex bonus and rogue as a favored class, most Halfling rogues will do better than 14.
I would caution you to choose your skills carefully when bestowing these bonuses if you intend to go through with this alteration. All in all, I don't really think it's necessary to throw out the normal favored class rules regarding XP penalties, but it's your game. Just be aware of the potential consequences.
I'm not really in favour. Basically favoured class just means you have a more difficult time being multi-classed into half a dozen different classes. Personally thats fine by me. I can't stand players that are multi-classes out the wazoo. Multi-class a few times and thats fine but when they start having five and six classes I think its overkill.
I really don't see that doing away with the favored class distinction is necessary, inasmuch as it helps define the races and thereby adds flavor to the game.
That said, I definitely wouldn't trade favored classes for skill bonuses or any other bonuses. As earlier noted, that would only tend toward a grossly overpowered game.
I have considered doing away with favored classes and even multiclassing penalties in my own games, but decided against it. It probably wouldn't be a problem with my current players, but I can easily see how it could hurt those players who might go crazy with the multiclassing.
Ok now that I think I understand what you are saying, the most I would do is treat every race as a human for the purposes of favored class: his or her highest-level class does not count when determining if an XP penalty should be applied. I certainly would not provide a benefit in the form of skill boosts or any other benefit to choosing a race's nominal favored class.
Don't forget that favored classes are meant as a check on munchkin multiclassing and are also a fairly meaningful "flavor rule" to further show why humans are more flexible than other races. Eliminating them altogether will lead to some strange things, like a lot of 1st level rogues, barbarians, rangers and fighters as a basis for otherwise "pure" classes for which they have no synergistic match, like clerics, wizards or monks. If you trust your players, this may work, but the potential for some ugly "munchkinclassing" is there if they are eliminated altogether.
One of the changes that we are considering for our group is favored class. As written, it is more of a penalty than a bonus...
I think it was intended that way. Favored class rules accomplish two things:
- Encourages certain class choices with non-humans, helping to establish a flavor for each race
- Grants a superior favored class rule for humans, helping to maintain the human-dominated flavor D&D milieux (and most fantasy settings) have always had.
My two cents :)
Jack
This alteration seems unnecessary to me and I find a little bit of possibility for abuse. Halflings, in particular, would presumably get bonuses to skills associated with their favored class (rogue) as well. Imagine a rogue with a +4 size bonus to Hide, max ranks for his level, a Skill Focus in Hide, and your +2 'racial' bonus at 1st level. Assuming a 14 Dexterity, you've got a +15 bonus to Hide at level ONE. The Skill Focus might be a little extreme, but even without it you've got a +12 skill modifier on a 14 Dex and, let's face it, with a +2 racial Dex bonus and rogue as a favored class, most Halfling rogues will do better than 14.
I would caution you to choose your skills carefully when bestowing these bonuses if you intend to go through with this alteration. All in all, I don't really think it's necessary to throw out the normal favored class rules regarding XP penalties, but it's your game. Just be aware of the potential consequences.
Thanks to everyone for the feedback. We have had a few people in the past who attempted to multiclass as many classes as possibly, but they ran into problems at high level, namely a lack of higher level spell and feat access. I'm quoting Fatespinner because his post was the most constructive. My plan should we do this is to give bonuses on class related skills, but to stay away from racial bonuses, for example, a halfling rogue would gain +2 on Sleight of hand and Gather information checks with perform as a class skill.
To add to this little discussion it has come to my attention that with all the additional classes popping up out there that giving a race a choice between a couple of favored classes might be an option (such as an elf who gets to choose between duskblade, scout, and wizard as his or her favored class). What do people think?
To add to this little discussion it has come to my attention that with all the additional classes popping up out there that giving a race a choice between a couple of favored classes might be an option (such as an elf who gets to choose between duskblade, scout, and wizard as his or her favored class). What do people think?
I think the favored class rules are more about flavor than balance and could be abandoned altogether without dire consequence. What you propose is less extreme (and adds new flavor), and I wouldn't bat an eye at such a house rule.
To add to this little discussion it has come to my attention that with all the additional classes popping up out there that giving a race a choice between a couple of favored classes might be an option (such as an elf who gets to choose between duskblade, scout, and wizard as his or her favored class). What do people think?
I think it would be a good overhaul.
To add to this little discussion it has come to my attention that with all the additional classes popping up out there that giving a race a choice between a couple of favored classes might be an option (such as an elf who gets to choose between duskblade, scout, and wizard as his or her favored class). What do people think?
This is what I do in my homebrewed world. Here are the favored classes for each race (with a brief description of who they are/how the differ from the core version):
Messpin: Small humanoids who live in the sewars and slums of large cities. They have bonuses to hit and damage against vermin. Rogue, Savant (from the Dragon Comendium), Urban Druid (ibid.).
Erbusts: Crude elephantine people who favor simple weapons and revere the spirit world. Ranger, Spirit Shaman (Complete Divine), Witch (more powerful version of the class from Green Ronin/DMG).
Hadozees: Pretty standard version of the race from Stormwrack. Bard, Rogue, Swashbuckler (Complete Warrior).
Sachita Dwarves: Naturally magical, wiccan-like dwarves. Barbarian, Scout, Sorcerer.
Flo'sam Dwarves: Formerly great sub-race of dwarves who destroyed their civilization by abusing magic. They've turned into sea-gypsies who tattoo their bodies with runes that describe their race's fall and shave their beards daily as penance. Cleric, Fighter, Rogue.
Elves: Highly magicaland very militaristic, elves have organized a society based on firm castes and are ruled by a military junta. Duskblade (Players Handbook 2), Warmage (Complete Arcane), Wizard.
Gnomes: Xenophobic merchants who ply the high seas and consider themselves the pinnacle of civilization (somewhat middle ages Japan-ish in flavor). Monk, Ninja (Complete Adventurer), Wu Jen (Complete Arcane).
Halflings: Pretty standard, but with a darker (philosophical) tint. Rogue, Spellthief (Complete Adventurer), Warlock (Complete Arcane).
Tibbits: No changes from the Dragon Compendium race. Beguiler (Player's Handbook 2), Rogue, Sorcerer.
Darfellan: Only change from this Stormwrack race is that they've developed a complex underwater dance/martial art. Barbarian, Battle Dancer (Dragon Compendium), Druid.
As you can see, I'm a big fan of the Dragon Compendium.
I tried to give each race favored classes that cover three of the four iconic roles.
Humans have favored class any, and there are no "half-" races.
El Skootro
I've tinkered with the idea, but never did anything with it. My current campaign isn't set up to make it a viable prospect (since different favored classes are one of the differences between my elf clans).
Funny thing about your campaign El_skootro is that the campaign I'm likely to use the changes in is a swashbuckling campaign with hadozee (it's my next D&D campaign after I finish my Ice Age one).
Funny thing about your campaign El_skootro is that the campaign I'm likely to use the changes in is a swashbuckling campaign with hadozee (it's my next D&D campaign after I finish my Ice Age one).
Yeah. I love me some hadozee. My campaign world is very piratey and swashbucklery (STAP was perfect, and I'm eagerly awaiting Green Ronin's new Freeport fluff product).
If you're interested in the more detailed descriptions of the races or any of the other swashbucklery aspects of my campaign, I'll happily email them to you.
skooter3 at gmail dot com
Cheers,
El Skootro
Currently, the favored class rules seem to be more of the stick, less of the carrot. You get nothing extra for being in your favored class, and you loose if you stray from it. That doesn't strike me as "favored", it seems more like you have a single "not sucky at this" class.
In my games, I houseruled out the XP penalty, added a few of the new classes (I use almost every splatbook) to each race (duskblade for elves, etc.) and because I run skill heavy games, and feel that the skill points per level is too low for all but genius human rogues (a bit of sarcasm, but you get my point) every level in your favored class gets you an extra skill point, similar to a human bonus skill point. Multiplied at first level and everything, stacks with the human one. Yes, since human's have favored class "any" that means they get an extra 4 skill points at first level. Essentially, the class with the highest number of levels is the human's favored class.
Since I also changed cross class skills to only costing 1 for 1, but still limited to half the max ranks, this makes cross class skills more attractive, especially for low skill point classes like fighter and barbarian.
I found this works well, and hasn't caused any upsets or abuses, and seems to be helping do what I feel it was intended to do: show that some races have a racial or cultural skill or tendency towards certain classes.