I have been under the impression that the d20 OGL was independent of WotC, but i'm seeing some indications that some of the companies, notably the dungeon crawl classics by goodman games and Troll Lord Games, that they are having to discontinue their d20 lines (and in the case of Troll Lord, it distinctly appears that this is not a voluntary decision.) have i been under a misconception and the d20 license is being revoked?

Is this something that was forcing the construction of the Pathfinder RPG? I really get the feeling i'm missing something here.

I have been under the impression that the d20 OGL was independent of WotC, but i'm seeing some indications that some of the companies, notably the dungeon crawl classics by goodman games and Troll Lord Games, that they are having to discontinue their d20 lines (and in the case of Troll Lord, it distinctly appears that this is not a voluntary decision.) have i been under a misconception and the d20 license is being revoked?

Is this something that was forcing the construction of the Pathfinder RPG? I really get the feeling i'm missing something here.

But the d20 STL is not the same thing as the Open Gaming License. OGL products can continue to be sold in perpetuity. The problem here is the branding. d20 no, OGL yes. Most d20 PDFs can be turned into OGL products rather simply with a few branding changes (removal of the d20 logo, for example) but it's not that easy unfortunately for print products.

Incidentally, this whole thing is one of the reasons against most companies signing onto the GSL, as it too contained a "destruction of product after suspension of the license" clause. Who knows when WotC will go 5e, and thus who knows when products published under the GSL will be worthless.

Yet another d20 STL/OGL confusion. The d20 System Trademark License has been discontinued by WotC, and as such all d20 products must be sold or destroyed (by November, IIRC).

...in June of 2008 [the d20] license will be terminated as we release the new game system license.

We’re going to give publishers a sell-off period where they’ll have until the end of 2008 to move through any stock that they have in their warehouses. Once it’s at distribution or in retail, the product can continue to sell through in its natural progression. We’re not going to ask publishers to recall that product and destroy it. But any excess inventory that they may happen to have in their warehouses at the end of ’08 would need to be destroyed. Any subsequent reprints they can still publish through the Open Gaming License, they just have to remove the d20 system trademark logo. That would include both PDF and physical product that continues to be sold after 2008.

Does anybody out there have any real evidence that the d20 license has actually been terminated?

...Does anybody out there have any real evidence that the d20 license has actually been terminated?

Kvantum wrote:

Yet another d20 STL/OGL confusion. The d20 System Trademark License has been discontinued by WotC, and as such all d20 products must be sold or destroyed (by November, IIRC).

So, here's a weird thing about that... in April, Scott Rouse said this in an interview on ICv2:

Scott Rouse wrote:

...in June of 2008 [the d20] license will be terminated as we release the new game system license.

We’re going to give publishers a sell-off period where they’ll have until the end of 2008 to move through any stock that they have in their warehouses. Once it’s at distribution or in retail, the product can continue to sell through in its natural progression. We’re not going to ask publishers to recall that product and destroy it. But any excess inventory that they may happen to have in their warehouses at the end of ’08 would need to be destroyed. Any subsequent reprints they can still publish through the Open Gaming License, they just have to remove the d20 system trademark logo. That would include both PDF and physical product that continues to be sold after 2008.

...but, as far as I've been able to tell, there's never been an official announcement that this plan was actually carried out. I'd expect notice to be posted on Wizards' d20/OGL license page, but I don't see anything like that there.

Does anybody out there have any real evidence that the d20 license has actually been terminated?

Perhaps the idea at WotC is that they will discontinue the license at the end of the year with the understanding that everyone was warned and had enough time to sell.

(Fortunately it's not relevant to Paizo—the only products we published with the d20 logo were official D&D products published under a license separate from the d20 license.)

(Fortunately it's not relevant to Paizo—the only products we published with the d20 logo were official D&D products published under a license separate from the d20 license.)

Maybe they are only giving official notice to those that it is relevant to...

A) How would they know who those people are? The d20 license did include a registration card, but returning it was not mandatory.

B) I'd expect to see that notice reposted by SOMEONE, somewhere.

C) That wasn't the deal. In their d20 System Trademark FAQ, they say this (regarding changes the license): "There will be no formal notification process. You should periodically check the official d20 website (wizards.com/d20) for notice of any changes."

As far as I can see, they're no longer offering the d20 license from that page (though all of the important bits are still available as links from their FAQs in the "archive" area)... but the removal of previously available information is not the same as notice of change.