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This is board for people that play 4e ... so ... why wouldn't I come here?Oh, and thanks for validating the OP. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside to know you want all of us that play 4e to make ourselves scarce.
Actually, this board is to talk about 4e, which certainly could be from a 4e-player perspective, or from non-players. Criticism of the game should not be shut down. The question, as it is in all fora and not just this one, is in the posting tone, rigor, and courtesy. People should not troll or generally post while wearing their asshats, on either side of the game-playing divide.
That said, the call to leave the boards was unwarranted. On the other hand, posters should stop threatening to leave because they feel unwelcomed. Both responses are a churlish.
I have to say that one of the larger problems I see is that a small group of people who have gotten themselves banned by WotC, have come over here as a result. Some have even taken to starting threads to brag about their trollish behavior, as if we would welcome them as some sort of heroes. I would suggest that when someone that starts dumping on you for enjoying 4th edition, just check their recent posts. Often times, on other subjects, I have found that the person who enters the board negative usually just spends most of their time trolling, or joined the board specifically to troll on that subject. Most of us who spend a lot of time in the social threads, like the Off-Topic Board, are not going to be the ones trolling you.
Most of us who spend a lot of time in the social threads, like the Off-Topic Board, are not going to be the ones trolling you.Yeah, we're a fun-loving bunch; a bit inane at times, but still friendly.
We even manage to keep it mostly civil when hot button issues like politics and religion are brought up. The only ones we troll are Sebastian and CourtFool.
Edit: And even that is meant in the best of intentions and the spirit of fun and frivolity.
Frankly, I haven't really noticed all that many attacks against people who like 4th edition that go beyond criticisms of the game itself, but maybe I'm just not seeing it. I've never felt like anyone has personally insulted me on this board for being interested in 4th edition, or for playing it rather than Pathfinder. Is this because I'm a superscriber? I don't know. But it just doesn't seem bad enough to be driven away.
I've seen a few pretty bad rants that started down the road to being personal. I don't play 4th edition, and since I don't have any strong feelings one way or another, I usually stay off the 4th edition boards. I have seen some pretty vitriolic stuff in the threads that I have read though.
Edit: I do enjoy picking through 4th edition material for ideas, however.
Frankly, I haven't really noticed all that many attacks against people who like 4th edition that go beyond criticisms of the game itself, but maybe I'm just not seeing it. I've never felt like anyone has personally insulted me on this board for being interested in 4th edition, or for playing it rather than Pathfinder. Is this because I'm a superscriber? I don't know. But it just doesn't seem bad enough to be driven away.
I ask again for links to the threads discussing the game itself (rather than WotC's marketing) that degenerated into nasty and trollish attacks on fans of 4e. I keep hearing about them but would like a link so I can better empathize with my 4e-loving fellow gamers.
I haven't seen anything specifically about the game. The problem I see is that most of the trolls I've seen can't seperate the marketing from the game itself. Here is an example of what I'm seeing
- apparently you read what's in between the binding of fourth edition, but have no clue as to what is between the lines.
This strikes me as someone who can't seperate the game from the way that it was marketed/released. Here is the link for the thread where people were bragging about getting banned by WotC.
Actually, this board is to talk about 4e, which certainly could be from a 4e-player perspective, or from non-players. Criticism of the game should not be shut down. The question, as it is in all fora and not just this one, is in the posting tone, rigor, and courtesy. People should not troll or generally post while wearing their asshats, on either side of the game-playing divide.
This is board for people that play 4e ... so ... why wouldn't I come here?Oh, and thanks for validating the OP. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside to know you want all of us that play 4e to make ourselves scarce.
I agree but the post to which I was responding was suggesting that people who play 4e should not come here at all. That is an undercurrent for many of the anti-4e posters here. They wonder why any of us can play 4e AND be Paizo fans to boot. They want us gone - plain and simple.
I ask again for links to the threads discussing the game itself (rather than WotC's marketing) that degenerated into nasty and trollish attacks on fans of 4e. I keep hearing about them but would like a link so I can better empathize with my 4e-loving fellow gamers.
Tarren - just search for Razz and you will find plenty of them.
Tarren - just search for Razz and you will find plenty of them.
At least he hasn't been posting for over two months now. If it helps in any way, I don't want any 4E people to leave. It's unfortunate that some people can't deal with other peole enjoying 4E, but that's not a reason to condemn all the Paizo boards. No matter where you go, you're going to find undesireables. That's life. Some people are jerks, but we have to deal with that ourselves, don't we?
EDIT: I don't mean this post to undermine your position in any way. It sucks, and I'm sorry you guys have to deal with this.
I ask again for links to the threads discussing the game itself (rather than WotC's marketing) that degenerated into nasty and trollish attacks on fans of 4e. I keep hearing about them but would like a link so I can better empathize with my 4e-loving fellow gamers.Tarren - just search for Razz and you will find plenty of them.
Here is an example.
Here is an example.I ask again for links to the threads discussing the game itself (rather than WotC's marketing) that degenerated into nasty and trollish attacks on fans of 4e. I keep hearing about them but would like a link so I can better empathize with my 4e-loving fellow gamers.Tarren - just search for Razz and you will find plenty of them.
Uh...that's my Razz-mocking alias, not actually Razz...
Edit: Oh wait, he's there too, but the "not interested in a conversation" bit is me.
I ask again for links to the threads discussing the game itself (rather than WotC's marketing) that degenerated into nasty and trollish attacks on fans of 4e. I keep hearing about them but would like a link so I can better empathize with my 4e-loving fellow gamers.Tarren - just search for Razz and you will find plenty of them.
The accusation I first posted this request in response to was that Paizo has recently become a place where many 4e haters are attacking 4e players. That was not recent. Please, try again.
My beef here is simple. Paizo is an lightly moderated board that has a pretty decent community. There are a few jerks who make outrageous and hurtful statements. Hey, it's the Internet. There are a lot of other considerate and thoughtful people too.
You have repeatedly asked Paizo to shut down the 4e forum. I think it should remain open to hopefully thoughtful discussion both in favour and critical of 4e. Moderation does not improve the tone of messageboards. Trolls just find ways to push the limits and see what they can say to get banned.
I ask again for links to the threads discussing the game itself (rather than WotC's marketing) that degenerated into nasty and trollish attacks on fans of 4e. I keep hearing about them but would like a link so I can better empathize with my 4e-loving fellow gamers.Tarren - just search for Razz and you will find plenty of them.
While I do not say that this makes Razz's statements less bad, it should be noted that Razz did leave (apparently) in part due to action by the Paizo staff, which does go against the assertion that Paizo has taken no action to stop certain things on these forums.
Edit: Because people might want a link.
While I do not say that this makes Razz's statements less bad, it should be noted that Razz did leave (apparently) in part due to action by the Paizo staff, which does go against the assertion that Paizo has taken no action to stop certain things on these forums.I ask again for links to the threads discussing the game itself (rather than WotC's marketing) that degenerated into nasty and trollish attacks on fans of 4e. I keep hearing about them but would like a link so I can better empathize with my 4e-loving fellow gamers.Tarren - just search for Razz and you will find plenty of them.
To be specific, Razz's last post was on July 16th.
You have repeatedly asked Paizo to shut down the 4e forum.
Actually I only said that the one time and even then it was just to spark a discussion about why 4e folk should be allowed to post here without the constant barrage of flames and troll poop.
But to your original question - I would say the personal insults have all but disappeared. The only one still pitching the low balls is Pax.
And yet you complain about evil clones.Uh...that's my Razz-mocking alias, not actually Razz...
Edit: Oh wait, he's there too, but the "not interested in a conversation" bit is me.
Duh. There's a different standard for me than for others - you, as my clone, should understand that! Besides, my evil clone is funny and educational, yours is an attempt to subvert my cultists and little girl stalkers.
You have repeatedly asked Paizo to shut down the 4e forum.Actually I only said that the one time and even then it was just to spark a discussion about why 4e folk should be allowed to post here without the constant barrage of flames and troll poop.
But to your original question - I would say the personal insults have all but disappeared. The only one still pitching the low balls is Pax.
So what's the purpose of this thread again? :D
Duh. There's a different standard for me than for others - you, as my clone, should understand that! Besides, my evil clone is funny and educational, yours is an attempt to subvert my cultists and little girl stalkers.And yet you complain about evil clones.Uh...that's my Razz-mocking alias, not actually Razz...
Edit: Oh wait, he's there too, but the "not interested in a conversation" bit is me.
No, our intention is to save your cultists and little girl stalkers from themselves. Besides I hear your stalker has her own growing crime family.
Edit: I have been empowered to speak for all of your clones, by me. It is one of the joys of being a clone of the great and powerful Sebastian.
I agree but the post to which I was responding was suggesting that people who play 4e should not come here at all. That is an undercurrent for many of the anti-4e posters here. They wonder why any of us can play 4e AND be Paizo fans to boot. They want us gone - plain and simple.
I really don't think that's the case. I don't think there's that much wonder about being a 4e player and Paizo fan (rather, I think it's more about simply being a 4e fan), nor that they explicitly want you gone. Any people getting personal or trashing 4e in an unreasonable manner, I think, just want to pick a fight or vent. I suspect any more significant motive is unlikely.
The "why do you come here" seems to come up most often after a 4e-defender offers up the complaint about not feeling welcome or that Paizo is fostering an anti-4e environment. At that point, if you really do feel unwelcome, I think the question isn't necessarily a wrong one to ask. After all, once someone offers up that they feel unwelcome, they've open the door to a conversation about why they feel that and why they persist even though they feel that way. Sometimes the question may be an obnoxious reposte but I've seen an occasion or two where I actually thought it was a sincere and non-hostile question.
You have repeatedly asked Paizo to shut down the 4e forum.Actually I only said that the one time and even then it was just to spark a discussion about why 4e folk should be allowed to post here without the constant barrage of flames and troll poop.
But to your original question - I would say the personal insults have all but disappeared. The only one still pitching the low balls is Pax.
"The only one still pitching the low balls is Pax" does not equal "constant barrage of flames and troll poop".
Please clarify.
Edit: I have been empowered to speak for all of your clones, by me. It is one of the joys of being a clone of the great and powerful Sebastian.Ack. Somewhere, someone appreciates the irony and justice of me having to deal with me.
I hate that person.
I think it is your little girl stalker. She wubs you though.
The only ones we troll are Sebastian and CourtFool.
I am happy to be the board’s whipping boy.
That is an undercurrent for many of the anti-4e posters here. They wonder why any of us can play 4e AND be Paizo fans to boot. They want us gone - plain and simple.
Why am I here? I do not play Pathfinder or 4e.
The only ones we troll are Sebastian and CourtFool.I am happy to be the board’s whipping boy.
That is an undercurrent for many of the anti-4e posters here. They wonder why any of us can play 4e AND be Paizo fans to boot. They want us gone - plain and simple.Why am I here? I do not play Pathfinder or 4e.
You said it yourself, to be the board's whipping boy.
Mmm... you just said you didn't do it abode...The Jack cult is accepting new members and yes, we do play Pathfinder.The Poodle Lord does not play Pathfinder?!?!...
*going into a nervous crisis*
We do not allow poodles though. You must have another avatar to join.
Edit: Poodles are allowed if they stay off the rugs and the furniture.
You have repeatedly asked Paizo to shut down the 4e forum.Actually I only said that the one time and even then it was just to spark a discussion about why 4e folk should be allowed to post here without the constant barrage of flames and troll poop.
But to your original question - I would say the personal insults have all but disappeared. The only one still pitching the low balls is Pax.
"The only one still pitching the low balls is Pax" does not equal "constant barrage of flames and troll poop".
Please clarify.
It takes a long time for wounds to heal. Pick at a scab - even lightly - and you may find that you bleed worse than the original cut.
There have been moments over the nine months when tranquility seemed to be restored yet here we are again with frayed nerves and bleeding scabs wondering why we can't just talk about the game. We lost another regular poster because people can't leave well enough alone.
Perhaps you don't see it because you are not effected by it. It is easy to stand under an umbrella and wonder why the person without one is complaining about the weather.
I really don't think that's the case.I think you should go back and re-read the post I was responding too. In essence the post said - Paizo isn't doing 4e so why are you guys here talking about 4e.
I have and, quite frankly, it doesn't sound like he wants you gone at all. You're ascribing motives that, I think, are unfounded.
Be upset all you want but the people that play 4e are not the ones that made that cartoon.It takes a long time for wounds to heal. Pick at a scab - even lightly - and you may find that you bleed worse than the original cut.Which is another reason to be upset about that inane cartoon.
And who exactly blamed 4e players for WotC PR? :)
(EDIT: I think you already admitted you can only think of a single current poster doing this sort of thing.)
I'm just saying that its one thing for 4e players to talk about their recently healed wounds, but it cuts both ways. 4e players (and WotC in particular) should be a little more sensitive to the still sore feelings of those who do not play 4e. Burning bridges is usually a bad idea in the long run.