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...blah blah blah.... going to ENWorld...Nobody here is trying to drive you away. But to be perfectly honest it was you who over-reacted not FH who was itching for a rumble - so don't hack at us over it.
Anyway. We'll miss you. Please write!
Sigh.
DId he overreact? Probably.
Did the people responding to him make this community seem better or worse?
Did the people responding to him make this community seem better or worse?
I dunno. Did he make the community seem better or worse?
See, that's my big b!tch with this kind of logic, only those who have something deviating from the "Gee, ain't WotC great" mindset have to worry about watching what they say. If you're posting in the discussion, you're making yourself part of the community. No one's holding a gun to anyone's head making them post or take an argumentative attitude (regardless of which side of the aisle you argue from).
It's a two-way street, brother.
I've been reading the thread over on ENWorld about the GSL and it seems a little... scary.
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=224085
Yeah. And some say, provisions targeted straight at Paizo. Once you GSL, you lose it if you publish OGL again.
In short, you publish GSL 4e or continue to publish OGL 3e, not both.
I've been reading the thread over on ENWorld about the GSL and it seems a little... scary.
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=224085
Yeah. And some say, provisions targeted straight at Paizo. Once you GSL, you lose it if you publish OGL again.
In short, you publish GSL 4e or continue to publish OGL 3e, not both.
Yep. Means that Sinister Adventures is not going to be embracing 4E. I plan to offer my adventures in as many systems as possible. If I can't do that and do 4E, then I can't do 4E.
Radavel
(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber)
Yep. Means that Sinister Adventures is not going to be embracing 4E. I plan to offer my adventures in as many systems as possible. If I can't do that and do 4E, then I can't do 4E.
[Emphasis mine]
That's telling them, Nick.
Ahhh, that clears that up, I had heard a few differing stories, some of which involved pre-pubescent otters, and was hoping you would clarify the terms.
Don't worry, I am sure the GSL will be out soon. *tries to keep a straight face*
Oh, all the stories you heard about the pre-pubescent otters are 100% true! ;-)
In the meantime...I'll be Sinister and make Golems! I'm not too concerned one way or the other.
The inability to publish both GSL and OGL material makes the partnership between Necro and Paizo look like an increasingly smart long-term strategic move - my respect for Paizo management seems to increase on a weekly basis!
Make no mistake. Lisa is a GENIUS. I kid you not.
Erik is a mastermind as well. I've had about a grand total of 20 discussions with Erik about gaming, the industy, publishing, etc. Each one I walk away with a dozen pure GEMS of brilliance. The guy should be in charge of something awesome...oh wait he is.
Eh, never bought much 3rd party stuff in the first place.
I'll never understand this viewpoint. Why is the "official" stamp so important? The best WotC books (IMHO) are written by Paizo's peeps (James Jacobs' name on a book guarantees my money). Why does the writing have to be through the official brand to be any good?
I should say that I am not limiting the above comments to RPGS. I'm talking about everything from clothing to toilet paper too. I buy quality, I could care less who makes the stuff.
If an awesome book is published by Wizards, I pick it up. If an awesome book is published by Green Ronin, I pick it up. If an awesome book is published by Joe Jenkins in his garage, I pick it up.
Just my personal opinion of course.
Good. Cause I may have just accidentally left your address down low where it might have maybe been noticed by him. You might wanna wear your iron breastplate again tonight as you sleep.
I love that little Rat Daemon...Jason
Great.. you know how that thing itches... but I guess it is better than itching from the inside.
Jason
(BTW James and Nick, nice to see that the two of you are also up watching the craziness unfold.. fun fun...)
Good. Cause I may have just accidentally left your address down low where it might have maybe been noticed by him. You might wanna wear your iron breastplate again tonight as you sleep.
I love that little Rat Daemon...Jason
Great.. you know how that thing itches... but I guess it is better than itching from the inside.
Jason
(BTW James and Nick, nice to see that the two of you are also up watching the craziness unfold.. fun fun...)
Where there is craziness...my kielbasa leadeth me...always. ;-)
Edit: I'm just sad my kielbasa led me into Brown Jenkins!!! :-0
Good. Cause I may have just accidentally left your address down low where it might have maybe been noticed by him. You might wanna wear your iron breastplate again tonight as you sleep.
I love that little Rat Daemon...Jason
Great.. you know how that thing itches... but I guess it is better than itching from the inside.
Jason
(BTW James and Nick, nice to see that the two of you are also up watching the craziness unfold.. fun fun...)
Hells yeah! Who can sleep when the whole gaming world is all topsy-turvy! That... and it's hardly even 3:00 AM yet. Who can be sleepy before that?
Hells yeah! Who can sleep when the whole gaming world is all topsy-turvy! That... and it's hardly even 3:00 AM yet. Who can be sleepy before that?Good. Cause I may have just accidentally left your address down low where it might have maybe been noticed by him. You might wanna wear your iron breastplate again tonight as you sleep.
I love that little Rat Daemon...Jason
Great.. you know how that thing itches... but I guess it is better than itching from the inside.
Jason
(BTW James and Nick, nice to see that the two of you are also up watching the craziness unfold.. fun fun...)
Ha! Its approaching 5:00 am for me!!! ROCK!
Edit: And by ROCK! I think its safe to assume: GUAYAKI!
Hot.And you didn't even catch my edit yet! ;-)Where there is craziness...my kielbasa leadeth me...always. ;-)That's what I dig about you, Nick. You always have such family-friendly comments that can't be misinterpreted in subversive ways. You say things EVERYONE can enjoy!
IM?
Edit: And by IM? I think it's safe to assume I mean a peanut butter sandwich!
Hot.And you didn't even catch my edit yet! ;-)Where there is craziness...my kielbasa leadeth me...always. ;-)That's what I dig about you, Nick. You always have such family-friendly comments that can't be misinterpreted in subversive ways. You say things EVERYONE can enjoy!IM?
Edit: And I by IM? I think it's safe to assume I mean cyber-blow-job!
Ladies and Gentlemen! The thread has officially been DERAILED! Let's hear a round of applause for our resident maniac and future "Energetic Guy Who Sits Down The Hall," NICK LOGUE!
No one's fooled! We all know what you REALLY mean when you talk about peanut butter sandwiches. Just look at the first 3 syllables alone! Pervert.Whoa! You totally changed what I posted when you quoted me!!! ;-)
Edit: I love the Edit function!!! :-)
Public Broadcasting Station...yeah, that IS sick.
::Goes to work on Big Bird with a Snuffuffagus strap on::
No one's fooled! We all know what you REALLY mean when you talk about peanut butter sandwiches. Just look at the first 3 syllables alone! Pervert.Whoa! You totally changed what I posted when you quoted me!!! ;-)
Edit: I love the Edit function!!! :-)
Public Broadcasting Station...yeah, that IS sick.
::Goes to work on Big Bird with a Snuffuffagus strap on::
I said syllables, not letters, you!
Pea. Nut. Butt. (er sandwich)
Wow. Now I have to point out your own filth to you, man. You're TOO CLOSE!
No one's fooled! We all know what you REALLY mean when you talk about peanut butter sandwiches. Just look at the first 3 syllables alone! Pervert.Whoa! You totally changed what I posted when you quoted me!!! ;-)
Edit: I love the Edit function!!! :-)
Public Broadcasting Station...yeah, that IS sick.
::Goes to work on Big Bird with a Snuffuffagus strap on::
I said syllables, not letters, you!
Pea. Nut. Butt. (er sandwich)
Wow. Now I have to point out your own filth to you, man. You're TOO CLOSE!
LOL!
And on that note...I must SLEEEEEEP...with Big Bird...and my sandwich...! :-)
G'night James!
G'night EVERYONE!
What a shame. I like much what the designers have come up with for 4e. Hate what the lawyers have come up with for 4e. It's as if Microsoft banned third party vendors from producing software to run on Vista if they make software for XP, or Mac, or anything except Vista.
A license that effectively locks out any independently minded company, including talent like Paizo and Sinister, from producing for fourth edition? Thank god neither of them held their breath waiting on this document.
Some of the execs at Wizards/Hasbro really seem to be doing everything in their power to make me not want to buy 4th edition. I'm going to have to think about the possibility of canceling those preorders. I'm really thinking I'm going to feel better about sending that money to Paizo, Open Design, and Sinister instead.
I'll never understand this viewpoint. Why is the "official" stamp so important?
I'll venture a guess here, I used to be the same way.
The "official" stamp is an assumed badge of quality. There could be many different reasons behind this assumption. I, personally, used to think that the company that produced the "official" branded stuff had a better grasp of the system, and where it was going. That while others might put out good stuff, they weren't knowledgeable enough to be worth taking the time to read.
In my case, I wised up when I started paying attention to authors. When I started noticing a trend in the material I liked coming from the same group of authors. regardless of who they were publishing for.
And that revelation couldn't have happened if I hadn't started to notice the "revolving door," at the official company.
I no longer assume non-official = inferior... But I also can't think of any gentle way to open others eyes to that...
I experienced the same things, as though I had blinders on, I used to think that there was such a thing as offical content - but in the past 2 years, I've paid attention to the authors of the materials and actually realized that WOTC does not own dungeons and dragons any more than the NFL owns football. I started reading OGL materials, and realized the high quality of superior PAIZO materials and the brilliance of some NECROMANCER GAMES materials.
At that same time, the so-called designers of 4th editions were making fan-limiting choices about the fluff and crunch of the game - choices that were nonsensical or arbitrary, that's when I realized the "true" stewards of dungeons and dragons (as a beloved frpg steeped in tradition, history, and community) were the PAIZONIANS under the leadership of Erik Mona.
On these message boards I've asked people to reset their thinking, to look past the marketing of WOTC, and see that there is no such thing as "official content" anymore, because 4th edition breaks the continuity and 30+ years of game traditions. This is evident in their design choices, and reconcepting of our game.
For a long time unofficial did equal inferior. Paizo really changed that with great material and high production quality.
WotC's move makes sense. They are just doing what works for them.
Oh, and BTW someone mentioned the software industry - believe me Microsoft does actively discourage folks from developing software for multiple versions of Windows.
carmachu
(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber)
For a long time unofficial did equal inferior. Paizo really changed that with great material and high production quality.
WotC's move makes sense. They are just doing what works for them.
Oh, and BTW someone mentioned the software industry - believe me Microsoft does actively discourage folks from developing software for multiple versions of Windows.
Just one point though, offical doesnt mean quality either. Some of WotC's books leave alot to be desired....
Just one point though, offical doesnt mean quality either. Some of WotC's books leave alot to be desired....For a long time unofficial did equal inferior. Paizo really changed that with great material and high production quality.
WotC's move makes sense. They are just doing what works for them.
Oh, and BTW someone mentioned the software industry - believe me Microsoft does actively discourage folks from developing software for multiple versions of Windows.
I agree 100% - though that has alway been the case.
On these message boards I've asked people to reset their thinking, to look past the marketing of WOTC, and see that there is no such thing as "official content" anymore, because 4th edition breaks the continuity and 30+ years of game traditions. This is evident in their design choices, and reconcepting of our game.
So has every frickin edition before it.
So has every frickin edition before it.
On these message boards I've asked people to reset their thinking, to look past the marketing of WOTC, and see that there is no such thing as "official content" anymore, because 4th edition breaks the continuity and 30+ years of game traditions. This is evident in their design choices, and reconcepting of our game.
I Don't know that they did to the same extent as 4e.
I transitioned quite nicely from OD&D to Ad&D to 2e to 3e and the things I learned about the world in OD&D have for the most part stood me in good stead all the way to today.
There have been a few odd tweaks here and there but I always knew that gold dragons were inherently good, red dragons were always evil, and which creatures were demons and which were devils.
So has every frickin edition before it.
On these message boards I've asked people to reset their thinking, to look past the marketing of WOTC, and see that there is no such thing as "official content" anymore, because 4th edition breaks the continuity and 30+ years of game traditions. This is evident in their design choices, and reconcepting of our game.I Don't know that they did to the same extent as 4e.
I transitioned quite nicely from OD&D to Ad&D to 2e to 3e and the things I learned about the world in OD&D have for the most part stood me in good stead all the way to today.
There have been a few odd tweaks here and there but I always knew that gold dragons were inherently good, red dragons were always evil, and which creatures were demons and which were devils.
All so whats stopping you from using the previous fluff (I hate that word)? Its not like WotC is going to come to your house and put a gun to your head and force you to use it.
So has every frickin edition before it.
On these message boards I've asked people to reset their thinking, to look past the marketing of WOTC, and see that there is no such thing as "official content" anymore, because 4th edition breaks the continuity and 30+ years of game traditions. This is evident in their design choices, and reconcepting of our game.
I would have to disagree here. At least how I interpreted it, "breaking continuity" refers to the fluff as well as some core basics of the game mechanics. Of course, there is debate about where to draw the line, but it's pretty clear that pretty much through 1, 2, and 3e, there was a Great Wheel cosmology, demon succubi, schools of magic, alignment for everyone, wizards memorizing/preparing all of their spells for the day, fireballs that were a handful of d6's for damage, so on and so on. There were of course changes between each edition , but the changes here seem far more significant (especially on the fluff side) than any previous edition change. 2 to 3 was pretty major, but much of the fluff and basics of how classes worked was tweaked not thrown out. Of course, many people do think all of those changes are for the better. But to deny that far more traditions are being changed with this edition shift than any past one is a pretty tall claim that I don't see much support for ("Every edition has had changes" and "Zee game remains zee same." aren't convincing arguments without more details). ;)