I mean, who gets spell-like abilities except demons and devils? Clearly, they long ago traded their stature to dark gods in exchange for eldritch powers. :)

You got it all wrong. Spell-like powers comes from confidence. Since gnomes never were insecure about themselves, they got an extra share. It's only those guys insecure about their size (or, often, "size") that lose their innate powers.

I know I have a lot of magical ability. Don't tell me you don't. Was nature... shortchanging you?

:P

I just read that the default world for D&D 4.0 will not have a name. It will just have one sun and one moon, so we don't confuse anyone. Also, it will include sites from other named worlds like the Isle of Dread (Mystara) and the Temple of Elemental Evil (Greyhawk). I am pretty sure that Waterdeep will be there too.

Huh? Waterdeep?? Linky please? I smells me a strawman...

The 3.x books had no campaign world, either. You needed to get the LGG to really play in Greyhawk, or use some of the older stuff on the campaign world. There wasn't much info in the core books on Greyhawk, other than the deities, some spells names and some magic item names.

FR will get it's own book almost right away. Eberron (much to my chagrin, but I guess there are some that like it) will be getting a core book in 09.

Otherwise, the world is your to create as you see fit. I have no less than 3 great ideas for 4E worlds, plus I plan on using Golarion, too. It's all good.

Oh, hey, and Paizo already put the Isle of Dread into Greyhawk. So blame Erik and James for that. :p

Leafar the Lost wrote:

I just read that the default world for D&D 4.0 will not have a name. It will just have one sun and one moon, so we don't confuse anyone. Also, it will include sites from other named worlds like the Isle of Dread (Mystara) and the Temple of Elemental Evil (Greyhawk). I am pretty sure that Waterdeep will be there too.

Huh? Waterdeep?? Linky please? I smells me a strawman...

The 3.x books had no campaign world, either. You needed to get the LGG to really play in Greyhawk, or use some of the older stuff on the campaign world. There wasn't much info in the core books on Greyhawk, other than the deities, some spells names and some magic item names.

FR will get it's own book almost right away. Eberron (much to my chagrin, but I guess there are some that like it) will be getting a core book in 09.

Otherwise, the world is your to create as you see fit. I have no less than 3 great ideas for 4E worlds, plus I plan on using Golarion, too. It's all good.

Oh, hey, and Paizo already put the Isle of Dread into Greyhawk. So blame Erik and James for that. :p

Agamon the Dark! It figures. Tell me, who paid you to post your pro-D&D 4.0 garbage? Was it Richard Baker? Logan Bonner? Or was it the Devil himself Bill Slavicsek? Go back to the Shadowfell! Go back to the 9 Hells! I will stand by my D&D 3.5 brothers and sisters to wait for the Apocolypse...

There won't be a 4.5 because going to 5.0 is so much easier. :)

Going all the way up to 11 rocks...

I predict that ALL of the former D&D worlds (Eberron, the Realms, Greyhawk, Dark Sun, Birth Right, etc...) will fall to the sword of the D&D 4.0 design team. They will take what they like, and stick it somewhere on the Nameless World. The rest will face Annihilation!

It's like Marvel Secret Wars!

I fully expect to see a chunk of Manhattan has made it into the setting, complete with the Baxter Building.

Curse you, Richards!! Your constant frigging about with the Negative Zone has proved our undoing!!"

...General Urza and Doctor Zaius pursue Taylor and Nova along the beach of The Isle of Dread. Taylor is making a desperate attempt to reach The Forbidden Zone, on the central plateau, where he will find the truth of the islands original inhabitants in the fabled village of 'Manhattantru'...

He comes at last to the remains of a great statue, its spiked crown and torch unmistakable...

Taylor:"You bastards! You blew it all up!"
Nova:...
Taylor: "G0D d@mn you to hell, you blew it all up!"
Nova:.... "Mama?"......

Not only that, but all the NPCs will be those poor souls abducted by aliens. That "probing" they talk about is in fact the process of 4e conversion.

They aren't creating a new campaign world at all. That was apparently suggested, but rejected. They are just creating a conceptual framework for setting their adventures, which they expect will be adapted to whatever world you are actually using...homebrew, GH, FR, Ebberon, whatever.

According to Rich Baker: "The idea is to create just enough flavor to have interesting proper names and links for DMs to pick up and use, without dictating how their worlds have to go together."

That may involve some name dropping of things that are part of another campaign world, but I haven't seen any suggestion of that yet unless you mean the new core pantheon.

Wow....that sounds just like Greyhawk that they failed to support in 3.X........

I dont mind a generic framework world. I just dont want them using Geyhawk items like Pelor or ToEE. If you werent willing to support it then....

If they also make non-continuity crossover appearances in some Team-Up project, is this some kind of heresy?

lol "WOTC Team-Up featuring Elminster and Mordenkainen"

talk about epic...

Timothy Mallory wrote:

They aren't creating a new campaign world at all. That was apparently suggested, but rejected. They are just creating a conceptual framework for setting their adventures, which they expect will be adapted to whatever world you are actually using...homebrew, GH, FR, Ebberon, whatever.

According to Rich Baker: "The idea is to create just enough flavor to have interesting proper names and links for DMs to pick up and use, without dictating how their worlds have to go together."

That may involve some name dropping of things that are part of another campaign world, but I haven't seen any suggestion of that yet unless you mean the new core pantheon.

Wow....that sounds just like Greyhawk that they failed to support in 3.X........

I dont mind a generic framework world. I just dont want them using Geyhawk items like Pelor or ToEE. If you werent willing to support it then....

The D&D 4.0 team, or the "Scions of Satan" as I like to call them, are not going to support Greyhawk in 4.0. Unless you define "support" as destroying Greyhawk and putting parts of it on a Nameless World.

Also, the "Ho's of Hasbro" need to realize that their new world will be named, one way or another. If they don't name it, we will. How about "Hsit World"?

"We can do this the easy way, or the very easy way." Denton Van Zan, REIGN OF FIRE, 2002.

Also, the "Ho's of Hasbro" need to realize that their new world will be named, one way or another. If they don't name it, we will. How about "Hsit World"?

Maybe we could honor the company at the heart of it all and call the world Hassbronia.

Presenting: ...4E, the illegitimate edition! Also known as 4I- a hodgepodge of unnecessary goofy stuff. The edition that required the destruction of the meticulously crafted world of Faerun, and a jumbled cacophony of mash-ups to get kids to play the game.

But wait! That's not all! The so-called designers of 4.crap will also throw in un-schooled interpretations of what fans of the game have enjoyed for 30+ years.

If you order now, you'll also recieve piss-poor marketing aimed at alienating long-time players of the game along with your subscription to formerly free online stuff that you already have in a more coherent form in your 3.5 book collection.

So don't dely—just call 1-800-NOT-D&D

...a place called Greydarkjammeloft.

Point.

SirUrza wrote:

There won't be a 4.5 because going to 5.0 is so much easier. :)

Going all the way up to 11 rocks...

'cause you know, it's one louder.

Wow....that sounds just like Greyhawk that they failed to support in 3.X........

I dont mind a generic framework world. I just dont want them using Geyhawk items like Pelor or ToEE. If you werent willing to support it then....

No, its not. The botched "Greyhawk is core" is almost exactly the opposite of what they are doing now. Then they took an established setting and then were forced to try to twist it to make their new stuff suitable for it at the expense of any semblance of the setting's flavor or continuity.

Now they are making an amorphous setting that consists of little more than some flavored name drops to be used as placeholders, without any expectation that they have any other purpose than as placeholders. Yeah, ToEE is a GH locale that they are apparently using in this namedropping thing. But they are NOT saying that the ToEE is a distinct place in a distinct world with distinct relations to other peoples and places in that world. Or that any offhand comments they make about the "generic" ToEE are 'official' for GH.

Its their opinion that many many people used ToEE (or Return to ToEE) in their homebrew campaigns or converted it to the FR or Ebberon or whatever. So it is an iconic property that is setting independent now.

I am MUCH happier that they are not pretending that anything they publish is necessarily part of Greyhawk (or any other published setting).

The D&D 4.0 team, or the "Scions of Satan" as I like to call them, are not going to support Greyhawk in 4.0. Unless you define "support" as destroying Greyhawk and putting parts of it on a Nameless World.

Also, the "Ho's of Hasbro" need to realize that their new world will be named, one way or another. If they don't name it, we will. How about "Hsit World"?

First, you have no idea if they will or won't. They've suggested they might, but it wouldn't be for a while since they apparently only want to do one Campaign setting book per year. And FR and Ebberon get the first two. I expect they won't make a GHCS, but you are just spouting opinion like it has some basis in fact. Which it does not.

Secondly, they aren't making a new world. There isn't going to be a map, there isn't going to be any sort of 'history' except in the sense of a few placeholders along the lines of "tieflings came from somewhere, so we'll call that somewhere Tieflandia" on the assumption that DMs will either place Tieflandia in a suitable location in their own campaign or use something entirely different.

Could they change their mind down the road? Sure. TSR had no intention of producing a campaign setting at all originally. Gygax figured everyone would want to run a homebrew. He was convinced otherwise by constant customer feedback and ended up making the World of Greyhawk out of his, Dave Arneson's, Len Lakofka's, and Rob Kuntz's various homebrews. That was a true "patchworkia" world in origin and its been rather successful, I tend to think.

Leafar the Lost wrote:

The D&D 4.0 team, or the "Scions of Satan" as I like to call them, are not going to support Greyhawk in 4.0. Unless you define "support" as destroying Greyhawk and putting parts of it on a Nameless World.

Also, the "Ho's of Hasbro" need to realize that their new world will be named, one way or another. If they don't name it, we will. How about "Hsit World"?

First, you have no idea if they will or won't. They've suggested they might, but it wouldn't be for a while since they apparently only want to do one Campaign setting book per year. And FR and Ebberon get the first two. I expect they won't make a GHCS, but you are just spouting opinion like it has some basis in fact. Which it does not.

Secondly, they aren't making a new world. There isn't going to be a map, there isn't going to be any sort of 'history' except in the sense of a few placeholders along the lines of "tieflings came from somewhere, so we'll call that somewhere Tieflandia" on the assumption that DMs will either place Tieflandia in a suitable location in their own campaign or use something entirely different.

Could they change their mind down the road? Sure. TSR had no intention of producing a campaign setting at all originally. Gygax figured everyone would want to run a homebrew. He was convinced otherwise by constant customer feedback and ended up making the World of Greyhawk out of his, Dave Arneson's, Len Lakofka's, and Rob Kuntz's various homebrews. That was a true "patchworkia" world in origin and its been rather successful, I tend to think.

ARE YOU INSANE?! HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND?! Get it, "lost" your mind? Never mind...