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From ENWorld
"We know the wizard. Their focus is now more an evoker than anything else. They blast enemies while remaining in the back.
Spells are divided among at will (lesser power than a fighter’s melee attack), per encounter, per day (the really powerful stuff, these are the most powerful abilities in the game) and rituals. Rituals cover magic item creation, and non-combat spell (divinations are prime examples).
Schools are dead, long live the implements: the orb, the staff and the wand (with others, such as the dagger, possible in later supplement). Staffs are for rays and cones, wands for long distance control, while orb stands for blasts, terrain control, and retributive and perception based effects.
Divinations, long range teleport, restorative effects (the cleric’s remove disease for example) are rituals.
Evocation and illusion are there and now they are the focus of wizardry.
Necromancy was nerfed mostly by removing save or die effects.
Transmutation was a haphazard pile of powers (according to them), and some part remains, other do not.
Enchantment is nerfed to be saved for other classes (others they state that it will be psi).
Wizards spell failure due to armor is gone (hurrah!). Picking the right feats wizards can go around in heavy armor.
Feats don’t have class as a prerequisite. Race, level or skill training might be needed, but no class. You can steer your character wherever you want.
There are class training feats (Fighter training, Wizard training, Warlock training, etc.) that gives some power of that class to someone not in that class.
Power progression
There is 2 or so pages on tiers of power (heroic, paragon and epic). The important part is the paragon paths and epic destinies. They replace prestige classes. They are additional power/abilities, that you can choose once you hit 11th or 21st level. They are very much like prestige classes and battle captain, mystic theurge, weapon master, prince of knaves and cavalier are mentioned.
Epic destiny gives few but very powerful ability. Also it describes how you exit the world (seem like at level 30 you retire). You can become a demigod for example.
Epic level game is much about slaying gods and clearing the Nine Hell (I made the last up).
In the cleric section they muse about gods being redesigned, and one of their goals is, that they can be challenged by epic level characters. "
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I really have problems seeing Pathfinder without Schools of magic. The Runelords are based on being specialists in each school. The schools of magic have defined D&D since the begining, droping them pushes D&D2.0 farther away from what I consider D&D.
So basically, at least until 2009 when the next Player's Handbook comes out, the following will be pretty hard to model using the opening line up of rulebooks:
Creating a Traditional Necromancer: Though from what they have said there may be some "monsters" that work as necromancers that have specific powers to do necromantic things . . . still, anything that you might want to use as a necromancer that isn't stated up in the Monster Manual will be a difficult road though.
Creating a Traditional Enchanter: Not only does this look like it will be hard out of the box, but it looks like no "wizard" will ever be good at this, since its being reserved for psions. I guess there have never been any fantasy archetypes of enchanters using arcane power that me might want to emulate.
Creating a Shapeshifting Wizard: Yeah, the rules on polymorph are a bit convoluted in 3.5, but instead of fixing them, lets just say you can't do it. Again, guess there aren't any fantasy archetypes of wizards that could shapeshift or use that ability to shapeshift to fight more effectively. I know they are saving this ability for druids, but it really seems like we are going for almost no overlap in ability, which means that only divine characters can shapeshift effectively now . . . kind of limiting.
As for the "exit strategy" passage . . . so one of the "standard" ways to retire is to become a demigod? And gods are suppose to be "more" easily fought by epic characters?
No wonder they had to kill off high level NPCs and gods in the Realms . . . they have to make room for the "natural progression" of demigods that result from high level adventurers retiring. I hope they save enough gods for the PCs to kill though . . .
Is it just me or does this kind of sound like the Wizard from Gauntlet (the old Atari videogame)?
Holy crap, I'm not the only one! It sounds less like the old Wizard and more like the Wizard, Sorceress and Jester from the new Gauntlet thta came out not too many years ago- I've got to pick up a copy, speaking of....
I really have problems seeing Pathfinder without Schools of magic. The Runelords are based on being specialists in each school.
Or you could say that the Runelords operating under the old system of magic (from the previous edition) enforces the feel of them being an ancient culture.
It all depends on whether or not you're looking for another reason to complain about 4e.
Or you could say that the Runelords operating under the old system of magic (from the previous edition) enforces the feel of them being an ancient culture.
It all depends on whether or not you're looking for another reason to complain about 4e.
Well it would kind of help if the old school of magic existed. But ummm, ... WotC kind of ... dumped that, like completely, like nothing even similar remains. So Paizo is going to have to do a FR change to their setting if they want to use ... this.
While I don't love the loss of spell schools (it makes converting my illusionist a pain until the arcane book comes out, allegedly in late 2008), I agree that the Runelords using "old" magic is a pretty good fit, actually.
As for my gnome illusionist/bard, I guess that's what retraining rules will be for.
Well it would kind of help if the old school of magic existed. But ummm, ... WotC kind of ... dumped that, like completely, like nothing even similar remains. So Paizo is going to have to do a FR change to their setting if they want to use ... this.
The runelords are monsters, not PCs. They can have non-standard abilities. It's not a big deal.
The runelords are monsters, not PCs. They can have non-standard abilities. It's not a big deal.
See this is what worries me most about the 4th edition monster design philosophy. I get that, if something is an innate ability, it is handy to have that ability work like an ability of the monster instead of having it be a just like a spell out of the Player's Handbook. That doesn't bug me.
But what does bug me is when a power is clearly due to some kind of "class training," but it will be handled like a power intrinsic to the monster. Once the PCs are fighting someone that is a wizard, he should work like a wizard, not like "monster wizard" that gets to break all sorts of rules and do things they can't because he doesn't have to follow the same rules.
Once the PCs are fighting someone that is a wizard, he should work like a wizard, not like "monster wizard" that gets to break all sorts of rules and do things they can't because he doesn't have to follow the same rules.
In both AD&D and C&C I use "monster wizards" all the time. Since when does not having 'level # wizard" in the monster name make them different than a wizard?
My orc "wizards" work like wizards.
My lizardmen "druids" work like druids.
Why the thought that you need to give them a class to make it work? Thats a regularly touted idea that I just never understood.
In both AD&D and C&C I use "monster wizards" all the time. Since when does not having 'level # wizard" in the monster name make them different than a wizard?My orc "wizards" work like wizards.
My lizardmen "druids" work like druids.
Why the thought that you need to give them a class to make it work? Thats a regularly touted idea that I just never understood.
I suspect what you are talking about is that your lizardman has more or less stats for a lizard man, but can cast spells like an X level druid, etc. I did this too, especially for monsters like vampires when I ran 2nd edition.
What I'm talking about here is that an "orc shaman" isn't going to cast spells that are analogous to any druid or cleric spells, it will have completely different abilities that are described like a monster ability.
In other words, they won't cast cloud kill or acid breath, they will have a unique ability to belch a cloud of noxious fumes or to spit a line of acid that doesn't have to work anything like the powers that a PC of a similar profession would have, I suspect in part so that they can have orc shaman and the like before those classes are fully fleshed out.
We always complained in psionic land that it didn't seem right that the psion was not as good at frakking with people's heads like enchanters, but now we go the opposite direction?
Again, that sounds more like a case of lets chuck what's not broken. So a 4E wizard needs to be a guy with a stick instead of a guy with bat guano. Whee...
In other words, they won't cast cloud kill or acid breath, they will have a unique ability to belch a cloud of noxious fumes or to spit a line of acid that doesn't have to work anything like the powers that a PC of a similar profession would have, I suspect in part so that they can have orc shaman and the like before those classes are fully fleshed out.
I dunno, sounds like some pretty big assumption on your part there. Monster have spell abilities too,even without having to vomit up the effects.
I dunno, sounds like some pretty big assumption on your part there. Monster have spell abilities too,even without having to vomit up the effects
Actually Mike Mearls already said that orc shamans are going to puke up acid. This might be changed somewhere down the line, but he seemed pretty proud of that effect.
Actually Mike Mearls already said that orc shamans are going to puke up acid. This might be changed somewhere down the line, but he seemed pretty proud of that effect.I dunno, sounds like some pretty big assumption on your part there. Monster have spell abilities too,even without having to vomit up the effects
Gawsh. All the possibilities there...all the myriad bodily functions...earwax tanglefoot bags....I'm brainstormin now.
Actually Mike Mearls already said that orc shamans are going to puke up acid. This might be changed somewhere down the line, but he seemed pretty proud of that effect.
*winces*
They're killing me.
At least as a DM it's not hard to change "pukes" to "stamps his feet and calls upon the orcish god, Hoobakooba."
Actually Mike Mearls already said that orc shamans are going to puke up acid. This might be changed somewhere down the line, but he seemed pretty proud of that effect.*winces*
They're killing me.
At least as a DM it's not hard to change "pukes" to "stamps his feet and calls upon the orcish god, Hoobakooba."
Does he pray in front of a porcelain bowl for spells?
DarkWhite
(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Battles Case Subscriber; GameMastery Superscriber)
Actually Mike Mearls already said that orc shamans are going to puke up acid. This might be changed somewhere down the line, but he seemed pretty proud of that effect.
I wouldn't mind if acid were just one of many spell choices an Orc Shaman might prepare, but this suggests that if you meet an Orc Shaman, don your raincoat and ready your umbrella, because you already know he's gonna spray you with acid. If this is the way they're going, replacing class levels with pre-defined powers, It kinda takes the mystery out of the encounter, don't you think?
It kinda takes the mystery out of the encounter, don't you think?
No, it just changes the type of mystery you are facing:
Did he eat an undercooked halfling?
Is he possessed?
Is this really an orc shammy or is it Vomit Guy in disguise?
Did the designers really think this was a good idea?
See. Mystery abound!
It kinda takes the mystery out of the encounter, don't you think?No, it just changes the type of mystery you are facing:
Did he eat an undercooked halfling?
Is he possessed?
Is this really an orc shammy or is it Vomit Guy in disguise?
Did the designers really think this was a good idea?
See. Mystery abound!
Your mystery sounds like the foregone conclusion to Chinese buffet night to me.
