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So as of last week I started watching a "new" program on Spike, Deadliest Warrior.
Mostly they pit two warriors (the episode on today was Pirate vs. Knight) each other in a hypothetical battle to the death.
Both of the warriors are given weapons they're associated with. They then collect data over each weapon and run a computer simulation to determine the average winner of one thousand battles. After the winner is determined, a mock battle takes place to showcase how each weapon is used in a real battle situation, and to determine which combatant is the deadliest warrior.
Well anyway while I can't find the full episode of Pirate vs. Knight, here's the AFTERMATH, a round table discussion over the show.
Here's a quick write up I did while watching show.
Pirate Fighting Style
Greed and Guns
Pirate Attributes
Deception and Versatility.
Pirates Drive
Greed and the will to survive against any odds.
Loyalty
Money
Pirate Weapons
Grenado
Flintlock Pistol
Blunderbuss
Cutlass
Boarding Axe
--------------------------------------------
Knight Fighting Style
Strength, Honor
Knights Attributes
Mix of speed and strength with a focus on defense.
Knights Drive
Combination of Chivalry, Personal Advancement, and Prestige.
Loyalty
France
Knights Weapons
Morning Star
Crossbow
Broad Sword
Halberd
Plate Armor
Next up they compared the twos weapons. Each weapon was given it's own catagory (special, long range, mid range, close range and close range offense vs. defense)
First up the special weapons
Grenado vs. Morningstar*
The morningstar proved to be a fast and deadly in close range. Shatterin a dummys (ballistic gel) skull with one swing.
The Grenado was detonated surrounded by several pig carrcasses, one having Plate Armor. The expert** on the knights team began saying that there was no way the Grenado would do any damage. Claiming nothing could ever overcome the Plate.
The grenado produced a great blast, and sharpnel, tearing holes in the pigs. The armored pig was damaged just not anywhere the armor covered. The expert again said that since the knight is entirely armored he would take no damage at all. Even the blast and concussion would have no effect.
Edge
Grenado - The damage it could cause over an area and shock value.
*What they actually used in the program was a flail
**The expert kept yammering the same thing over and over and over and over... get the point... Throughout the show.
After this we move on to long range.
Crossbow vs. Flintlock
The crossbow bolt penetrating deeply into an unprotected dummy. The knight expert totted how supperior the crossbow was to the flintlock. Even bringing up that it was banned from use and the Pope deemed it evil. One of the other experts determined the the iron bolt used would have easily damage the pirate dummys internal organ resolting in death.
The flintlock, by the way our knight expert stepped in once again to mention how impenatrable the armor is, dented the Plate Armor, but did not penetrate. The dent would have probably knocked any man to the ground, but the knight expert of course said knights were trained since children, and thanks to that training had the endurance to keep standing after the hit.
Edge
Crossbow - Killing power and accuracy
Mid range time
Blunderbuss vs. Halberd
The Blunderbuss had problem, several misfires. Knight expert of course stepped in saying the the pirate would be dead by now, and even if he got the shot off it would NEVER penetrate the knights armor. Anyway the Blunderbuss finally fired, putting a hole with one of its pellets through the Plate Armor.
The Halberd was a deadly and versatile. Slashing the dummys skull and puncturing it's abdomen.
Edge
Blunderbuss - Power of penetration and concussion.
Moving on to close range
Broadsword vs. Cutlass
Both swords were tested against pig carcasses. Both swords managed to cut the carcasses in half.
Edge
Draw - Both showed high killing power.
Finally close range offense vs. close range defense.
Boarding Axe vs. Plate Armor
The Plate Armor was tested throughout the show, being effective against most of the Pirate weapons.
The Boarding Axe was put put against, what the team considered, the strongest part of the armor. The helmet. The Boarding Axe put a very small hole, later confirmed only to be a dent (but a 3 inch dent though), in the knights helmet. I was determined that the dent would have been easily ignored by the knight.
Edge
Plate Armor - All-around ability.
After computing the numbers the mock battle began. It was back and forth from both warriors. The end came when the Pirate shot the Knight in the face with the Flintlock
Winner
Pirate - The Pirate's advanced weaponry proved to be crucial in this battle with the Blunderbuss and Grenado providing a vast amount of kill shots. The Knight's halberd inflicted serious damage and his plate armor was even able to hold the Flintlock, the Grenado, and to an extent the Blunderbuss in check but in the end the Pirate proved to hold just too much firepower and dirty tricks for the Knight.
This was without a doubt a better episode than the last one (Spartans vs. Ninjas). Won't even go into that one...
Of course this week Premiere episode is Green Beret vs Spetsnaz. Which you can watch the entire episode here.
Next weeks episode has me interested as well, Shaolin Monks vs Maori Warriors!
Apache vs. Gladiator has been my personal favorite so far, but Samurai/Viking is a close second ...
So far this my favorite, haven't seen those two yet. I'll let you know after I see them.
The thing I really like is the ER trauma doctor giving a detailed breakdown of the damage delivered.
Agreed, I like hearing the explaination of just what was injured or destroyed through testing.
Got through the first 4 of these tonight (you think listening to macho stuntmen repeat th same thing over and over is bad enogh for one episode try several),
Me and my mate came to the conclusion that theres a certain level of input bias into whatever program it is their using to come up with the comparisons (overvalue on the kill power of grenade and blunderbuss especially and overestimate of shock value of a grenade on a 15th century knight which is what they said they were testing),
the gladiator did get short changed versus the Apache but then they were supposed to be vulnerable to arrow fire, and in open fight the ninja would have lost though as the not chubby expert said no worthwhile ninja would fight a spartan they'd run away and kill them in their sleep. Viking Samurai was fairly good though the insistance that Vikings (or Pirates) for that matter were trained warriors really had us giggling.
Didn't watch the Green Beret episode, no interest. So last nights episode Shaolin Monk vs. Maori Warrior was actually entertining.
Write up I did while watching show.
Monk Weapons
Twinhook Sword
Emei Piercers
Staff
Whip Chain
--------------------------------------------
Maori Weapons
Stingray Staff
Mere
Taiaha
Shark Tooth Club
First up Mid Range Weapons
Twin Hook vs. Stingray Staff
The staff proved just how deadly it could be. The barbs penetrated a good 3 four inches into the balistic gel dummy. The serated edges of the bards were almost impossible to remove. And no to mention the barbs would pump poison into the victim.
The Twin Hook was an excellent short range weapon. The Shoalin expert showed how the swords could easily be linked and turned into a Mid Range weapon.
Edge
Twin Hook - Steel, effective in short or mid range combat.
Short Range Weapons
Emei Piercers vs. Mere
First off let me say the piercers are some of the coolest things I've ever seen! Then again I've always like them.
The Shaolin expert is up first. With 4 seconds he destryos the balistic gel dummy. Impaling the dummpy twice in the cranium and removing the eyes. By the end of the test the skull was completely destroyed.
The Mere was impressed but promises a weapon with one hit kill potential. They test the jade Mere against a bulls skull (twice as thick than a human skull). With one blow the Mere obliterates the skull. To further test it they pit the green rock weapon against a steel weapon.
They have the mere swing two weapons (a bowie knife and Mere) at a stack of wood planks. The knife only get through one plank. The Mere though breaks through three planks.
Edge
Mere - Brute force/power
Another mid range match up.
Staff vs. Taiaha
The staff proved to be fast and effective. But in the end no a deadly weapon.
Taiaha wooden edge proved capable of no only cleaving flesh, but easily breaking a spine.
Edge
Taiha - Optimised for killing. Pure power.
Finally special weapons.
Whipchain vs. Shark Tooth Club
The chain was fast. The movement and sound produced also proved to be disorienting. In the end it was deemed a nonlethal weapon.
The club was tested again a side of beef. The teeth easily slashed through the meat.
Edge
Shark Tooth Club - Primitive chainsaw. Killing weapon made for death.
Mock battle was up next. most of the combat saw the monk on the run from the Maori. The end came as the monk disarmed the Maori of his Taiaha and stabbing him in the cranium with the Emei Piercers.
Out of 600 simulated battles the monk won thanks to the pirecers. It mostly came down to one thing. Steel. The monks more modern and steel weapons easily overpowered the Maori's simple, wooden ones.
The Maori chimed in at the end of the show though. Mostly saying that the Maori could eaily beat a little china man. Plus how can you trust results from a computer. Because all computers are made in China.
Mock battle was up next. most of the combat saw the monk on the run from the Maori. The end came as the monk disarmed the Maori of his Taiaha and stabbing him in the cranium with the Emei Piercers.
Out of 600 simulated battles the monk won thanks to the pirecers. It mostly came down to one thing. Steel. The monks more modern and steel weapons easily overpowered the Maori's simple, wooden ones.
Just as a clarification, the monk won that one duel via the Emei Piercers, but out of the 692 simulated fights that the monk won, 566 were due to the Twin-Hooks. The Emei Piercers were the deciding weapon in only 31 of the monk's victories.
The issue I have with the show is that they do not match up fighting styles.
They pit stealth fighters against squad fighters and rage based fighters against skill based fighters.
They should compare the different fighters in different situations and terrain. After all pirate vs knight looks pretty stupid if you add "when fighting on a boat over deep water". The armour doesn't seem so good now huh?
The show provides an interesting evaluation of techniques and weapons but not a head to head comparison.
I hope they used some actual training manuals for the fighting style instead of just waiving it around like a sharpened crowbar. :)Pretty cool overall, it was neat to see the claymore in action.Tomorrow's show
William Wallace vs Shaka Zulu
They used it to lop off three skulls that were attached to eitherpig necks or steer necks.
Yeah, I just watched it on Youtube. Meh. They really do need to start matching up similar types of fighters though. It starts to become like America's Most One Sided Fistfights otherwise.
I also saw that some kids did their own Youtube video spoof: Cowbow vs.Persian (Ancient Persian Warrior). If an eight-year-old is savvy enough to see how uneven these matchups are, one hopes we adults can do the same.
Wait until you see Ninja vs SpartanThat was the first episdoe I saw :)
I was disappointed. The battle that was played out really made the ninja look bad. It's like they found the worse ninja in the history of ninja to battle the spartan. RIGGED I TELL YOU, RIGGED!
Honestly if the ninja is caught in a fight...he will lose. He wasn't suppose to be fighting, but killing quickly, quietly, and be gone before any fight broke out.
A real issue I have had is when they talk about warriors from different eras. How can a knight beat a pirate with granades...I mean seriously...How about a current tanker with a tank...is the tanker really a better warrior then the knight? No but he has an M1-A1 so he doesn't have to be.
The thing I don't like is that they seem to not want to take into account the defensive abilities of the weapons unless they are a polearm of some sort. A claymore has a good amount of defense involved with it when used properly. The show reflected none of that potential.
They also tend to have some "expert" try to hit targets but when they miss the panel of judges claims the weapon isn't accurate. Joe the 2nd degree blackbelt probably doesn't run around tossing throwing stars or hatchets anywhere near as much as a real user of that item.
And they crapped on the sling because they found a less than good slinger. I sling better than that clown they put up and I am decidedly an amateur. Not to mention that they didn't give the sling enough respect as a weapon that can blast a hole in 3/4" plywood at 50'.
Opinions are like.......fill in the rest.
Wait until you see Ninja vs SpartanThat was the first episdoe I saw :)
I was disappointed. The battle that was played out really made the ninja look bad. It's like they found the worse ninja in the history of ninja to battle the spartan. RIGGED I TELL YOU, RIGGED!
Well, they probably just stripped the b#*$!%$! mythology from the ninja. :)
The show definitely displays a lack of tactical sensibility at times (Ninja would have done a strike and fade routine to maximize their advantages and weakening the enemy before moving in for the final kill doesn't seem to be used at all by any combatants) but the actual weapons themselves are interesting. Morningstar in the Knight/Pirate episode caught my attention and I got to thinking "you know, aside from the firearms, these weapons could prove interesting as inspiration for DMs in the game - morningstar slams down and splits open an enemy's head for the coup de grace as an example. Many either already have in game stats or could be adapted to the game (kanabo=greatclub, naginata=glaive, claymore=greatsword, etc) Pirate firearms could fit but the modern firearms not so much.
This is pretty much my favorite show on TV right now.
I think I liked the Apache warrior one the best, but I also enjoyed watching the Maori Mere club prove it was stronger than steel and my favorite part so far was the called shot demonstration of the samurai archer. Wow.
Not so sure about Shaka Zulu vs. William Wallace, yet. I've been out of town and haven't seen it. I'd prefer generic warriors rather than specific people. Not sure if that will work.
But I do love me some gruesomely maimed ballistics gel test dummies.
YES!
So I guess the terrorist episode was the last one of season one. No word on a season two but if there was one, what warriors would you like to see?
My ideas:
-Roman legionary
-Crusader knight
-Turkish jannisary
-Spanish conquistador
-Napoleonic grenadier
-Indian thuggee
-Prussian infantry or Junker
-Maybe a cavalry-based show with something like Hussars and Mongols or Cossacks
-Maasai warriors of East Africa
-Nizari Hashshashin
^
Some very good suggestions there. I was also thinking about the Roman Legionaire, Turkish Janissary, Spanish Conquisitor and Mongol warrior. Maybe even an Aztec warrior or Frankish warrior (known for their thowing axes). For a group on group fight, how about a World War II era match-up: a squad of Waffen SS (Mauser Rifle, MP-40 SMG, the Potato Smasher Hand Grenade, and the combat knife) vs. a squad of U.S. Marines (with the M-1 Rifle, the Thompson SMG, the "pineapple" hand grenade, and the bayonet)?
Perhaps they can have some new match-ups with warriors from the previous shows, such as the Ninja vs. the Apache or the Knight vs the Samurai.
^
Roman battlefield tactics certianly took them a long way, but don't forget that the Legionaire would have at least two of the those nasty pilium spears, and a Gladius, not to mention some armor and that tower shield. Still, it could be an interesting match up.
Celts invented chain mail, had a head in height over them, and a big ass sword.
Legionaires won because they fought better as a tactical unit. The celts placed too much value on single combat, which ended up being their downfall.
Bruce Lee Vs. Chuck Norris
We already know the outcome of this clash of the titans. It takes him nearly six minutes, but Lee takes him down. Note that Norris did not yet have the power of Beard when this was filmed - he had to rely on the not-quite-as-impressive power of Shoulder Hair. Luckily, the only live spectator to this battle was a kitten - anyone else would surely have had their faces melted, Raiders of the Lost Ark style.
Celts invented chain mail, had a head in height over them, and a big ass sword.
Of course. But that sounds a lot like what the Viking advocates boasted about on the Viking vs. Samurai matchup. Yet the Viking lost. Plus, as demonstrated in the William Wallace vs. Shaka Zulu episode, it takes a piercing weapon (such as the gladius and the pilum) to defeat chainmail. But still, it could an entertianing match-up.
Hmmm...imagine a D&D/Pathfinder equivalent to the Deadliest Warrior. Such as someone posting a match-up of say, a Shoanti beserker (main weapon, the earth-breaker) vs a Hellknight (main-weapon, the bastard-sword).
Season finale on Sunday:
IRA vs. Taliban
This was actually an interesting one: two groups that are similar enough to be comparable but different enough that you have something to stack them up against. The Mafia versus Yakuza one also makes sense, especially when they are using equipment from a specific time period.
My big issue is them matching up groups that make no sense, like Spartan versus Ninja.