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I somewhat get where you’re coming from Aaron. Whilst I’m quite pleased that Paizo has chosen to explore mature themes in their work, and I enjoy reading and playing these games myself, I know I’m probably going to have some tough choices to make in a few years if and when my son decides he wants to read the books or play the game. Mind you, this is not just limited to Paizo products; some of the D&D stuff in my collection (particularly the Book of Vile Darkness, Heroes of Horror and the Fiendish Codices) features pretty mature / dark themes and non-kid friendly images.
My almost-four year old is already interested in my Pathfinder books (he frequently requests them as bed time stories – we flick through and I make up stories around the pictures. He also knows most of the Iconics by name) and there are a few images I need to flick quickly past. These tend to be more the gory images (particularly things like a rakshasa eating some poor guy’s guts, or a ghoul chewing on a human arm) than the sexually suggestive ones. I don’t have such an issue with him seeing some slinky outfits, cleavage and topless monster women – he can and does see more flesh on billboards and if I take him down to Bondi beach.
Nevermind all that - where do you stand on 4e and health care?
I'm still pissed off at Pelosi for ramming 4e through using reconciliation, and I pray that Wizards never gets their health care bill passed. I just can't afford to be forced to pay for potion insurance--I say leave it in the hands of private spontaneous casting providers.
I have posted my unpopular opinion on these boards before, and will do so again. I would be happier with Paizo - or more specifically, Golarion - if the books avoided sexual themes. As it is, I feel the need to hide my Golarion books from my kids. I can't read them in their presence.
A few years down the road, it may become a bigger issue. If my kids show an interest in Pathfinder RPG, I might have to use only homebrew worlds and adventures. If I get them interested in Golarion, and they start flipping through some of those Golarion books, and see some of the material in those, I might get into a bit of trouble with my family.
I think that TSR was right to keep their material tasteful, and even to err on the side of caution. More mature material may be fine for a more mature audience, but what about children?
Would you care to elaborate on this? I'm not really sure what you mean could happen to children who read a Golarion book?
Interested,
GRU
I have posted my unpopular opinion on these boards before, and will do so again. I would be happier with Paizo - or more specifically, Golarion - if the books avoided sexual themes. As it is, I feel the need to hide my Golarion books from my kids. I can't read them in their presence.
A few years down the road, it may become a bigger issue. If my kids show an interest in Pathfinder RPG, I might have to use only homebrew worlds and adventures. If I get them interested in Golarion, and they start flipping through some of those Golarion books, and see some of the material in those, I might get into a bit of trouble with my family.
I think that TSR was right to keep their material tasteful, and even to err on the side of caution. More mature material may be fine for a more mature audience, but what about children?
Would you care to elaborate on this? I'm not really sure what you mean could happen to children who read a Golarion book?
Interested,
GRU
Sorry - I can see from later posts that you already have. I think that I understand better now....
No thanks, I'd rather not have Golarion sanitized. It's a not a kids book line, and should remain so.
True. Paizo is making the sort of products that Paizo wants to make, and that Paizo fans like. That's fine. I certainly don't expect Paizo to change its style because I'm grumbling in the midst of thousands of gushing fans.
But I wouldn't criticize TSR for trying to make family-friendly products, that's all.
And I wouldn't mind a PG line of Pathfinder products as introductionary stuff for new players. Heck, I even bloody want a Pathfinder Starter Box Set which would be safe for kids and family use. But until then, I want Paizo to stay afloat. And gritty stuff helps stay afloat, because I believe that the "thousands of gushing fans" are pretty much tired of "play-it-safe" campaign settings that try to portray a psuedo-realistic quasi-medieval world while cutting off all the Bad Things That Could Get Us In Trouble With Conservative Parents.
9 and 10 in that list got shot down when Wizards released the BOEF.
Poor TSR must have been rolling in the grave...
WotC didn't produce BoEF, Valar Project, Inc did. It was originally under the d20 license, but WotC made them pull it because it violated their "good taste". It was re-released without the d20 logo.
9 and 10 in that list got shot down when Wizards released the BOEF.
Poor TSR must have been rolling in the grave...
Wizards didn't release the BoEF. That book was published by Valar Project, Inc. And Wizards did plenty of rolling. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard that Wizards actually changed the OGL to try to prevent another book like the BoEF from coming out (or at least, a d20 one).
EDIT: I just KNEW I'd be ninja'd.
I can appreciate your position Aaron, but I don't understand the pressures. My first reaction was: "Really!? Who cares what other people think about how you raise your child?" But I can't grasp the nuances of the community you live in, so I won't comment on that.
Many years ago (mid-80s) I dated a girl from a strict Roman Catholic family. When they heard I played D&D (frown) they were concerned. When they heard I was a GM (GASP!), they told her she couldn't see me anymore. So I did what all good 18-yr-olds do, I went and talked to them. They were definately part of the anti-D&D movement. They even gave me a book to read. People actually took time to write on the evils of the game, piece-by-piece.
I took that book apart, chapter by chapter, in an hours long discussion with them. Think about that, an 18 yr old kid can out-logic a book by an "expert"? Tells you how well that book was researched and written.
Premise of my argument: if D&D teaches kids to be devil-worshippers, what does Monpoly do? or Cops n Robbers? or Cowboys and Indians? Even the card game War can be twisted if you are willing to make the stretch. To their credit, they were open minded.
I remember the good, old "D&D was evil" days, good times...you were a rebel then, now we are just geeks...<sigh>
I took that book apart, chapter by chapter, in an hours long discussion with them. Think about that, an 18 yr old kid can out-logic a book by an "expert"?
I congratulate you on winning the debate. But against some other people I know, who are NOT so open-minded, you wouldn't have won. You could have out-logicked them until you were blue in the face, and they wouldn't change their opinions or their behavior one iota.
Furthermore, I feel - although you're certainly free to disagree with me - that it's not worth hours of my time to argue that point. I don't play RPGs because I like stories about sex, gore, and drugs. I play them because I like stories about fantasy. Will I get into serious trouble by throwing in more mature themes? Probably not, but I'd rather not put myself in the position where I'd have to ask. It's just not worth it to me.
I took that book apart, chapter by chapter, in an hours long discussion with them. Think about that, an 18 yr old kid can out-logic a book by an "expert"?I congratulate you on winning the debate. But against some other people I know, who are NOT so open-minded, you wouldn't have won. You could have out-logicked them until you were blue in the face, and they wouldn't change their opinions or their behavior one iota.
Furthermore, I feel - although you're certainly free to disagree with me - that it's not worth hours of my time to argue that point. I don't play RPGs because I like stories about sex, gore, and drugs. I play them because I like stories about fantasy. Will I get into serious trouble by throwing in more mature themes? Probably not, but I'd rather not put myself in the position where I'd have to ask. It's just not worth it to me.
Fair enough. And I was 18, I needed to prove my point. Now? Not so much.
I congratulate you on winning the debate. But against some other people I know, who are NOT so open-minded, you wouldn't have won. You could have out-logicked them until you were blue in the face, and they wouldn't change their opinions or their behavior one iota.
I have two questions regarding that.
One, why do you continue to associate with such closed-minded people?
Two, why do you care what they think?
I congratulate you on winning the debate. But against some other people I know, who are NOT so open-minded, you wouldn't have won. You could have out-logicked them until you were blue in the face, and they wouldn't change their opinions or their behavior one iota.I have two questions regarding that.
One, why do you continue to associate with such closed-minded people?
Two, why do you care what they think?
The talking ankheg has a point.
Charlie Bell
(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Battles Case, GameMastery Maps Subscriber)
I congratulate you on winning the debate. But against some other people I know, who are NOT so open-minded, you wouldn't have won. You could have out-logicked them until you were blue in the face, and they wouldn't change their opinions or their behavior one iota.I have two questions regarding that.
One, why do you continue to associate with such closed-minded people?
Two, why do you care what they think?
I can't answer for Aaron, but my parents were dead-set against me playing D&D when I was a teenager. You can love and associate with people even when they're being irrational, and you do care what they think.
I congratulate you on winning the debate. But against some other people I know, who are NOT so open-minded, you wouldn't have won. You could have out-logicked them until you were blue in the face, and they wouldn't change their opinions or their behavior one iota.I have two questions regarding that.
One, why do you continue to associate with such closed-minded people?
Two, why do you care what they think?
My goodness.
I mean... my goodness.
The direction this thread has taken just stuns me. I'm at a loss what to say.
Two days ago, when I saw a couple of people posting some slightly derogatory remarks about TSR keeping this code of ethics, I thought I'd just voice my opinion - knowing I was in the minority - that TSR's approach was a good one, and one that I would prefer, all other things being equal. I didn't expect to get so many responses. When I did, I was astonished. I enjoyed the attention.
It was incredible to me - it still IS incredible to me - that there are so many people on these boards who care what *I* think! Let alone care about my life story! It beats me why they should. So I kept posting, milking this for all the attention I could.
But some of these questions make me wonder what can of worms I opened.
But since you asked, and since I couldn't possibly give a comprehensive answer to encompass ALL my experiences, maybe I can just give a couple examples that happen to spring to mind.
When I was in high school, playing D&D with a handful of friends, a lot of other students at the school jeered at us. They would come up to us to make derogatory remarks. I guess they did this to fill up some time. In some cases, I explained what RPGs were all about... and in a few rare cases, I actually got through to them. In other cases, I didn't bother trying, because I felt certain that some people were already set in their ways, and beyond persuasion, and thus, weren't worth my time.
Why did I associate with such people? I didn't have a choice. They were my school-mates. If I needed help studying, I certainly wouldn't hesitate to ask someone just because he's prejudiced against D&D!
Why did I care what they thought? Well, the jeering going on during games was a tad disruptive... but for the most part, I DIDN'T care. In fact, in a way, it was good. One younger student, who was, in a way, my protégé as a DM, once came to me and announced proudly "Well, I just got my DM badge; someone said to me..." and he proceeded to repeat a certain insult that was often directed to me.
Okay, maybe that example was a tad irrelevant.
The point is that being an Orthodox Jew, I have to associate with other Orthodox Jews. I have to go to an Orthodox synagogue, and send my children to an Orthodox school. I associate with people based on those criteria, not on RPGs. And while I expect adults to be more mature than children, there are other issues. As someone once joked "These Orthodox Jews sure are conservative!"
When I'm waiting to pick up my kids from school, I often read. Sometimes, I might read RPG material. Now just supposing another parent saw it, and asked about it. Here would be a chance to explain RPGs. I would obviously want to portray it in the best light possible.
Or supposing, some time in the future, I got a chance to GM for one of my children and his / her classmates. This would be a golden opportunity that I would try my best not to screw up. But then some of the parents would ask about it. Again, I would want to portray it in a good light.
When given this golden opportunity, do I want to show these parents a book, flip through it, and have the book open to a picture of topless women? Do I want them to read a line about "a slut and a whore?" Nothing good would come of that! And if I get to GM for children, and they start getting their own materials, and their parents see it, then, again, I don't want them to read about the NPCs' secret affairs. Why do I care what those parents think? They might decide not to allow their children to play. That probably won’t happen, but why take the risk? For what purpose? To play a game with sexual content? I have no particular desire to do so. And if my children see me reading a book, and they start quoting it to other people, I want it to be appropriate.
That's why I don't read Pathfinder books in front of my children, nor in their school.
Don't get me wrong. I'm a Paizo fan in spite of this. I intend to order a handful more Paizo products, including some Golarion books, soon. I don't mean to imply that Burnt Offerings, the Pathfinder Campaign Setting, etc. were bad; on the contrary, I loved them. But they're just not right for certain audiences.
Aaron has a lot of good points here. You don't always get to chose the community that you have to deal with, especially as an adolescent. Fundamentally, its a social game on more levels than just who sits at the table. Its an entire sub-culture that some people just aren't willing to accomodate (that also includes many online gamers). I've met my share of them as well, many were/are church goers I met during my sisters time of adopting faith. Others just don't understand or choose to not want to. However, when I learned to play D&D most of those people were siblings of friends, friends of friends, and direct friends.
I GM a game with a 15-16 year old and there are somethings that just aren't that appropriate for him, and complicating matters is that his father also plays with our group. They're faithful Catholics but they take the time to explore the game for more than just what their community wants. Still, the Father wouldn't want his son needlessly exposed to something graphic. I wouldn't want to offend and I have to choose what I allow carefully when I GM as a result.
Don't get me wrong. I'm a Paizo fan in spite of this. I intend to order a handful more Paizo products, including some Golarion books, soon. I don't mean to imply that Burnt Offerings, the Pathfinder Campaign Setting, etc. were bad; on the contrary, I loved them. But they're just not right for certain audiences.
I completely agree. I love Paizo's products but some of their stuff is not something I would share with children. I would love to see a couple products made with young kids in mind.
Don't get me wrong. I'm a Paizo fan in spite of this. I intend to order a handful more Paizo products, including some Golarion books, soon. I don't mean to imply that Burnt Offerings, the Pathfinder Campaign Setting, etc. were bad; on the contrary, I loved them. But they're just not right for certain audiences.I completely agree. I love Paizo's products but some of their stuff is not something I would share with children. I would love to see a couple products made with young kids in mind.
+1. I love Paizo products. I play some Paizo adventures with my son and I have a daughter who likes to dress up as a knight, pick up a crossbow, and go hunting. (She's 4 but she'll be playing soon.)
There are some Paizo products I won't share with them. That's fine. I have no problem with that.
I hope though that if Paizo decides to make a Pathfinder Basic set that they keep younger audiences in mind for that line.
I thought "Into the Haunted Forest" was a really good one for younger players. I don't recall any more mature players complaining that it lacked anything.
Edited for clarity.+1. I love Paizo products. I play some Paizo adventures with my son and I have a daughter who likes to dress up as a knight, pick up a bright purple nerf bold shooting crossbow, and go hunting imaginary monsters. (She's 4 but she'll be playing soon.)
brb, calling Social Services to cancel a call-in.
One, why do you continue to associate with such closed-minded people?
Because close-minded people will remain close-minded without exposure to new ideas. They may remain close-minded with exposure, it is true. But without giving it the chance, you'll never know.
Two, why do you care what they think?
Because, like it or not, they are a part of society, and can do harm to that society through their close-minded ideals.
One, why do you continue to associate with such closed-minded people?Because close-minded people will remain close-minded without exposure to new ideas. They may remain close-minded with exposure, it is true. But without giving it the chance, you'll never know.
Two, why do you care what they think?Because, like it or not, they are a part of society, and can do harm to that society through their close-minded ideals.
Don't forget that asking why someone associates with close minded people can be on levels including: Why do you associate with your mom? Why do you associate with you friends? Why do you associate with guys like TriOmegaZero? ^_^
Don't forget that asking why someone associates with close minded people can be on levels including: Why do you associate with your mom? Why do you associate with you friends? Why do you associate with guys like TriOmegaZero? ^_^
'Ey! I don't need you to patronize me! I got LOTS of people ready to patronize me! :P
Don't forget that asking why someone associates with close minded people can be on levels including: Why do you associate with your mom? Why do you associate with you friends? Why do you associate with guys like TriOmegaZero? ^_^'Ey! I don't need you to patronize me! I got LOTS of people ready to patronize me! :P
Glad you got the point! >:D
You know, writing that last post I wrote really got me thinking...
Someone else, living my life and experiencing everything I experienced, might have come to precisely the opposite conclusions.
In high school, when my schoolmates asked me about D&D, they sometimes asked me "Can there be sex in D&D?"
At that time, I wasn't mature enough to deal with the idea. Deep down, the idea of sex in a D&D game offended my artistic sensibilities. So I tried to downplay the idea.
Today, if I were asked such a question, I would say "Anything that can happen in a story can happen in a role playing game. If the players and DM want to describe sexual encounters, they can."
Had I given such an answer in high school, maybe those schoolmates would have gotten interested enough to start playing. I doubt it, but who can say for sure?
Maybe if I were to read the Pathfinder Campaign Setting in my kids' school, and some other father were to see it and notice pictures like that sexy Erinyes kissing a prisoner, that other father might say "Hey, what is that book? And where can I get a copy?" Okay, I REALLY doubt that. In fact, it's silly. But again, who can say for sure?
So if Paizo wants to make their products with these mature themes, I won't presume to tell them what their code of ethics ought to be...
...but neither would I presume to tell TSR what THEIRS should have been. Really, if I had brought a book to my high school and used it in a game during lunch hour, and one of the rabbis had seen it, I would NOT want it to have a picture of topless women. I would have been prohibited from bringing such a book to school.
You know, writing that last post I wrote really got me thinking...
Someone else, living my life and experiencing everything I experienced, might have come to precisely the opposite conclusions.
In high school, when my schoolmates asked me about D&D, they sometimes asked me "Can there be sex in D&D?"
At that time, I wasn't mature enough to deal with the idea. Deep down, the idea of sex in a D&D game offended my artistic sensibilities. So I tried to downplay the idea.
Today, if I were asked such a question, I would say "Anything that can happen in a story can happen in a role playing game. If the players and DM want to describe sexual encounters, they can."
Had I given such an answer in high school, maybe those schoolmates would have gotten interested enough to start playing. I doubt it, but who can say for sure?
Maybe if I were to read the Pathfinder Campaign Setting in my kids' school, and some other father were to see it and notice pictures like that sexy Erinyes kissing a prisoner, that other father might say "Hey, what is that book? And where can I get a copy?" Okay, I REALLY doubt that. In fact, it's silly. But again, who can say for sure?
So if Paizo wants to make their products with these mature themes, I won't presume to tell them what their code of ethics ought to be...
...but neither would I presume to tell TSR what THEIRS should have been. Really, if I had brought a book to my high school and used it in a game during lunch hour, and one of the rabbis had seen it, I would NOT want it to have a picture of topless women. I would have been prohibited from bringing such a book to school.
I don't think anyone is criticizing TSR's CoC. I believe we're all just remembering the days when the hobby was often pointed at as the cause for 'bad things' to happen to teenagers back in the day. Much like video games get the blame nowadays.
I don't think anyone is criticizing TSR's CoC.
I guess I read criticism into comments like "no wonder TSR folded."
Even when I read comments like "Im surprised they produced anything of value with that as there guidelines" or "I'm glad the Comics Code and the TSR Code are pretty much things of the past," I felt compelled to say that, all other things being equal, I would prefer that approach.
Heck, since I brought up that Comics Code matter, I would add that I'm GLAD of the Comics Code. I'm more comfortable reading OLDER comics to my kids. When I look through newer comics, I have to be more careful and selective of what I read to my kids.
As for comments like "Quick, we must defend the children against stuff that doesn't exist!" (referring to "real" magic,) I would say: does it really hurt D&D not to have magic based on real-world practices? Would a magic system based on, say, ancient Egyptian sorcery, or on Wicca, or on Satanism, be any more fun to play than a completely fictitious magic system TSR just made up for the purpose? I don't think so.
I completely agree. I love Paizo's products but some of their stuff is not something I would share with children. I would love to see a couple products made with young kids in mind.
This.
If any game company is serious about creating more gamers, one avenue is to hook very young gamer early. Complex rules can be a turn off when gaming with little kids, but I can dumb down the rules by myself. Coming up with a good adventure for young kids would be excellent. Granted, it's a niche product, but it's a niche market who would grow up to buy your primary products.
If any game company is serious about creating more gamers, one avenue is to hook very young gamer early. Complex rules can be a turn off when gaming with little kids, but I can dumb down the rules by myself. Coming up with a good adventure for young kids would be excellent. Granted, it's a niche product, but it's a niche market who would grow up to buy your primary products.
+1.
Even if sales figures say that "Pathfinder Basic Set" isn't selling as well as other products, it would be important for the health and well-being of the game - and for the industry - as a whole. I know *I* would never have gotten into RPGs if it weren't for the D&D Basic Set.
And Erik Mona would also agree. I refer you to this thread.
I play some Paizo adventures with my son and I have a daughter who likes to dress up as a knight, pick up a bright purple nerf bold shooting crossbow, and go hunting imaginary monsters. (She's 4 but she'll be playing soon.)
Haha, my daughter will be four this month. She has a foam sword and for a while when I'd have a weekly raid in WoW, she'd tell me that she would "help me fight that scary monster" on the screen and would swing the sword wildly in the air.
(She also absolutely loves saying "Hi" to everyone in the voice chat, who all respond with their greetings. Or, if we're not using voice chat, I'll tell everyone she said "Hi," and she loves to see her name on the screen as people respond in chat.)
I play some Paizo adventures with my son and I have a daughter who likes to dress up as a knight, pick up a bright purple nerf bold shooting crossbow, and go hunting imaginary monsters. (She's 4 but she'll be playing soon.)Haha, my daughter will be four this month. She has a foam sword and for a while when I'd have a weekly raid in WoW, she'd tell me that she would "help me fight that scary monster" on the screen and would swing the sword wildly in the air.
(She also absolutely loves saying "Hi" to everyone in the voice chat, who all respond with their greetings. Or, if we're not using voice chat, I'll tell everyone she said "Hi," and she loves to see her name on the screen as people respond in chat.)
Love it.
Nerd girls are great.
I have to be careful though that her lack of the 'princess-gene' doesn't upset her mother. Her mother keeps buying her Barbie dolls and my little nerd keeps feeding them to her dinosaurs.
I play some Paizo adventures with my son and I have a daughter who likes to dress up as a knight, pick up a bright purple nerf bold shooting crossbow, and go hunting imaginary monsters. (She's 4 but she'll be playing soon.)Haha, my daughter will be four this month. She has a foam sword and for a while when I'd have a weekly raid in WoW, she'd tell me that she would "help me fight that scary monster" on the screen and would swing the sword wildly in the air.
(She also absolutely loves saying "Hi" to everyone in the voice chat, who all respond with their greetings. Or, if we're not using voice chat, I'll tell everyone she said "Hi," and she loves to see her name on the screen as people respond in chat.)
Love it.
Nerd girls are great.
I have to be careful though that her lack of the 'princess-gene' doesn't upset her mother. Her mother keeps buying her Barbie dolls and my little nerd keeps feeding them to her dinosaurs.
Can't you compromise?
Couldn't she put her princess dolls into a story where they fight monsters?
My daughter loved it when I told her stories about warrior princesses.
I play some Paizo adventures with my son and I have a daughter who likes to dress up as a knight, pick up a bright purple nerf bold shooting crossbow, and go hunting imaginary monsters. (She's 4 but she'll be playing soon.)Haha, my daughter will be four this month. She has a foam sword and for a while when I'd have a weekly raid in WoW, she'd tell me that she would "help me fight that scary monster" on the screen and would swing the sword wildly in the air.
(She also absolutely loves saying "Hi" to everyone in the voice chat, who all respond with their greetings. Or, if we're not using voice chat, I'll tell everyone she said "Hi," and she loves to see her name on the screen as people respond in chat.)
Love it.
Nerd girls are great.
I have to be careful though that her lack of the 'princess-gene' doesn't upset her mother. Her mother keeps buying her Barbie dolls and my little nerd keeps feeding them to her dinosaurs.
Can't you compromise?
Couldn't she put her princess dolls into a story where they fight monsters?
My daughter loved it when I told her stories about warrior princesses.
Nope, its much better for barbie to be eaten by the dinosaurs.
Much like video games get the blame nowadays.It was an unfair label for D&D back then but video games are pretty vile these days and pretty much deserve everything they get.lol blanket statement much? :)
What do you mean by vile though?
Heheh, you're right, that is a blanket statement. That'll teach me to rush a posting. ;-)
Anyways, I should have put "many" video games are vile and by those I mean the Grand Theft Auto types (does that need explanation?) and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 where you can play out a terrorist attack.
Much like video games get the blame nowadays.It was an unfair label for D&D back then but video games are pretty vile these days and pretty much deserve everything they get.lol blanket statement much? :)
What do you mean by vile though?Heheh, you're right, that is a blanket statement. That'll teach me to rush a posting. ;-)
Anyways, I should have put "many" video games are vile and by those I mean the Grand Theft Auto types (does that need explanation?) and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 where you can play out a terrorist attack.
lol no worries jack, I was just ribbing ya :)
But being more specific definitely helps. Idefintely understand where you're coming from,
whether I agree or not. GTA was a game I had
to hide from my nephews cause of the content...
plus I figure I could get a 6 year head start on them
before they master it and make me look sad...
I’m coming late to this - so sorry if someone already brought it up.
I think that if you don't have kids of your own - you may be a little insensitive to mature themes in games. A while back I gave a copy of God of War (PS 2 video game) to my friend's son who is 15. My friend was okay with it, but he told me he was a little blind-sided when he sat down with his son and watched him play and rightly busted my chops. He won't be asking my opinion anytime soon on content I've viewed if it is age appropriate for his kids. (God of War can be…err…quite bloody.) He feels his kid has already been exposed to quite a bit gore as a horror movie fan – even if he is not 17.
I just really didn’t give it any thought until this incident. And now that I became a Godfather to my brother's son – I think about appropriate content – never did before. <shrugs>
I’m coming late to this - so sorry if someone already brought it up.
I think that if you don't have kids of your own - you may be a little insensitive to mature themes in games. A while back I gave a copy of God of War (PS 2 video game) to my friend's son who is 15. My friend was okay with it, but he told me he was a little blind-sided when he sat down with his son and watched him play and rightly busted my chops. He won't be asking my opinion anytime soon on content I've viewed if it is age appropriate for his kids. (God of War can be…err…quite bloody.) He feels his kid has already been exposed to quite a bit gore as a horror movie fan – even if he is not 17.
I just really didn’t give it any thought until this incident. And now that I became a Godfather to my brother's son – I think about appropriate content – never did before. <shrugs>
Ah yes... it's the same regarding language. Those without kids (like myself) have to more consciously censor 'bad words' because the in everyday life, the censor's turned off. ;)
It was an unfair label for D&D back then but video games are pretty vile these days and pretty much deserve everything they get.
To be fair, TTRPGs do have FATAL and Gangbang the RPG under their belt.
Though their equivalents in videogames would be trash like Ethnic Cleansing and pick-an-offensive-flash-game-at-random rather than anything found in stores.
I congratulate you on winning the debate. But against some other people I know, who are NOT so open-minded, you wouldn't have won. You could have out-logicked them until you were blue in the face, and they wouldn't change their opinions or their behavior one iota.I have two questions regarding that.
One, why do you continue to associate with such closed-minded people?
Two, why do you care what they think?
I couldn't agree more with your second point.
Your first however seems rather closed-minded itself, if you think about it.