Hey, DarkWhite. I don't think what happened in this thread really had anything to do with custom sneakers. There's just a certain attraction between how it was perceived and a raw nerve among certain former customers who take it as a further mark of their alienation, and that collided with the desire of others to defend said company from what they see as unfair errors of the intellect. No big deal.

I'm an aging gamer, and I'm not happy with Wotci or their new edition, but I kind of think the contest and the shoes are kind of cool. (And I've never played a MMORPG.)

You are right, the whole shoe thing just served as a starting point for my thoughts.

aylengyr wrote:

Thank you very much. I think it's funny that people want to stop me or anyone else from saying anything critical about 4.0. It's just MY opinion. I'm not all powerful or anything, if you don't like my opinion why make me mad by attacking me? Just say I disagree or whatever and move on. Or say something not provocative. It's easy to be nice.

Because the equivalent of "A shoe contest? How low could you go, Wizards?" is totally not provocative at all.

Ok I was going to say /ignore again, BUT what you said was reasonable, so here goes. No what you said was not in the least provocative, EXCEPT you went out of your way to come over here and post it. Ok check it out, the title of the thread is obviously uh not so friendly to 4.0/wotc. So why come post here at all? Clearly you were looking for trouble and you found it. If you don't want trouble don't look for it. I think if you disagree with my post you should ignore it, or say something about how you disagree, but understand that you can''t change my mind about it. I just think you came over here and picked on my post because you were looking for trouble and that is what I think is provocative. Not what you said but that you bothered coming here to say it at all. Oh yeah and while I'm not ignoring I just have to ask, why do you care so much? If I hate, just seethingly absolutely hate 4.0 and wotc, why do you care so much? Why not chill? You seem to be a reasonable man. This isn't Wotc's website, what does it matter if I post here complaining about something that obviously bothers me about wotc? Hummm? I mean who cares? It's just my thoughts! If I think something is silly or stupid or whatever who cares! If you don't agree then fine! That's cool, awesome. I don't come over and police your thoughts and posts, so leave mine alone. If you made a thread and said, "I hate (insert whatever here)." I would not come over and post how silly you are in that thread because that would be looking for trouble. That's about it.

Mairkurion {tm} wrote:

Hey, DarkWhite. I don't think what happened in this thread really had anything to do with custom sneakers. There's just a certain attraction between how it was perceived and a raw nerve among certain former customers who take it as a further mark of their alienation, and that collided with the desire of others to defend said company from what they see as unfair errors of the intellect. No big deal.

I'm an aging gamer, and I'm not happy with Wotci or their new edition, but I kind of think the contest and the shoes are kind of cool. (And I've never played a MMORPG.)

You are right, the whole shoe thing just served as a starting point for my thoughts.

I was/am clearly disillusioned with the whole mess right now.

I think that's a lot of people's feelings. A lot of former supporters/fans still feel bitter and unhappy with Wizards. Even if I shouldn't, I can't help but feel irked by most things they do. Maybe this is just in good fun. But to me I have such a bad taste in my mouth from being let down and disregarded (even if they wanted to make a new edition I don't like did you have to screw with the Realms to make it easier for NEW people who don't even play it/like it?) I just don't like anything they do anymore. I won't even buy their plastic minis anymore (which I don't use for my own characters but for monsters they work good).

It's their company and they can do what they want but if I don't like it I'm sure as hell not supporting it with my money.

... of course if they suddenly transform Golarion into a land full of smurfs and sparkling vampires then I'll have to look somewhere else again >_>

Ok I was going to say /ignore again, BUT what you said was reasonable, so here goes. No what you said was not in the least provocative, EXCEPT you went out of your way to come over here and post it.

Wow. Forgive me for chiming in.

Ok check it out, the title of the thread is obviously uh not so friendly to 4.0/wotc.

No. The thread title is "If I wasn't convinced before ..." which says absolutely nothing about what the contents of the thread might be.

So why come post here at all?

It never struck you that maybe people might want to talk about the shoe contest?

Clearly you were looking for trouble and you found it.

Actually, I was looking to read the thread. I then came across something - namely, your post - which immediately struck me as hostile and terribly unreasonable, not to mention the latest in a terrifyingly long string of threads which make it very clear that the Paizo fanbase is, on the whole, both a) overtly hostile towards WotC, and b) when not overtly hostile, unwilling to take others to task for their overt hostility towards WotC.

If you don't want trouble don't look for it.

One might say the same about you sharing your opinion of the shoe article. If you're allowed to rant against WotC's shoe contest, what possible ground could you stand on to say that I'm not allowed to rant against your own rant?

I think if you disagree with my post you should ignore it, or say something about how you disagree, but understand that you can''t change my mind about it.

It's really unfortunate that this is the case. I prefer to start with the optimistic view that a person's mind is open to change, but all too often that turns out to not be true.

I just think you came over here and picked on my post because you were looking for trouble and that is what I think is provocative.

Your thoughts, in this case, are quite wrong.

Not what you said but that you bothered coming here to say it at all.

Ah, yes. I'm particularly fond of this double standard. I've held many times that if someone has a seething hatred of WotC that they cannot restrain, they should not bother to post it at all, because the community is not improved by it. I'm sure you'd take me to task for that, but here we have you saying that if someone wants to leap to WotC's defense against an unreasonable attack, they shouldn't bother doing so.

Marvelous.

Oh yeah and while I'm not ignoring I just have to ask, why do you care so much?

Because this is just as much my community as yours, and the unrepentant, unmitigated, unrelenting vitriol spewed in WotC's direction makes this community uglier. As a Paizo fan and a WotC fan I have a vested interest in seeing this become a place where fans of both companies can feel welcome. As it stands, fans of WotC do not feel welcome here, sometimes not even when they stay huddled behind the walls of the 4th Edition board.

If I hate, just seethingly absolutely hate 4.0 and wotc, why do you care so much? Why not chill? You seem to be a reasonable man. This isn't Wotc's website, what does it matter if I post here complaining about something that obviously bothers me about wotc? Hummm? I mean who cares? It's just my thoughts! If I think something is silly or stupid or whatever who cares! If you don't agree then fine! That's cool, awesome. I don't come over and police your thoughts and posts, so leave mine alone. If you made a thread and said, "I hate (insert whatever here)." I would not come over and post how silly you are in that thread because that would be looking for trouble.

I am not going to ignore the vitriol just because you want your personal opinion to be free of challenge.

If you post your opinion on the internet, especially in a public forum, you need to be prepared to deal with responses to that opinion. This forum is here for discussion. If your desire is to rant at another gaming company for running a shoe contest and to forbid others from commenting on your own comments, I'm sure there are places where that can happen. But if you want to share your opinion, you have to accept that others can share their opinions as well, including their opinions of your opinion.

This is the kind of thing Paizo-bashers just love to latch onto whenever they want to paint the entire community here as hostile and insular, never mind that it's a minority of posters on the board who simply cannot live and let live.

This is the kind of thing Paizo-bashers just love to latch onto whenever they want to paint the entire community here as hostile and insular, never mind that it's a minority of posters on the board who simply cannot live and let live.

First, I'm very, very far from a Paizo basher.

Second, I'm also very, very aware that it's a minority of posters who constantly recycle the same vitriol. They are only part of the problem, though. They create the hostility, but it's the rest of the board's population that allows that hostility to continue. The reason these boards are seen as hostile isn't because WotC-bashers rant against 4th Edition or whatever - that sort of thing happens everywhere. It's because they rant, and then that ranting is tolerated by the rest of the community, and occasionally even encouraged.

aylengyr and Scott,
Will you two please knock it off? Both of you are now bashing each other for the sake of it. It's getting tiresome, especially when we could be talking about Olivia.

aylengyr,
I suggest you go with the advice you were given earlier: If you find something annoying, take deep breaths and, if necessary, flag and/or ignore. Do not get into a pissing contest as that'll just leave you even more upset and angry and this really isn't worth it.

Scott,
You keep telling other people they shouldn't be surprised if they post something provocative that they get a reaction. You do realise that they consider what you post equally provocative, don't you? Physician, heal thyself. You are not the board police. You have no more right to dictate what other people rant about than they have the right to tell you to stop talking about 4E positively. You can do it as much as you like, but it's not exactly having a positive result so far, is it?

This is the most insane thread I've ever read on these boards.

First, I'm very, very far from a Paizo basher.

Wasn't implying that you were. That post was aimed squarely at those arguing for the right to rage while being free from any counter-argument and not expecting the same allowance for "the other side", and how this just keeps exacerbating the problem faster than a kid who just hit puberty and discovered Cinemax.

Scott,

You keep telling other people they shouldn't be surprised if they post something provocative that they get a reaction. You do realise that they consider what you post equally provocative, don't you?

Yes, that was kind of my point.

Physician, heal thyself. You are not the board police. You have no more right to dictate what other people rant about than they have the right to tell you to stop talking about 4E positively. You can do it as much as you like, but it's not exactly having a positive result so far, is it?

It doesn't strike you that speaking positively about something might be preferable to speaking negatively about something else? Filling the forum with vitriol is bad. Other boards have successfully dealt with it; they have made it clear that unrestrained hostility towards another company in the industry is both unhealthy and intolerable, and it has allowed members from both communities to participate in discussions with each other.

That doesn't happen here. At no point has this community made a concerted effort to deal with this situation, and it shows. The vitriol continues, and when people do try to make it clear that such behavior is ugly and unwanted, they are lashed out at by yet more members of the Paizo community.

You need to stop seeing this as a "Pro-4th Edition vs. Anti-4th Edition" issue and start seeing it as a "Pro-open community vs. Anti-4th Edition" issue. There is a very, very good reason that the much of the rest of the D&D internet community has come to see the Paizo community as hostile and insular.

This is the most insane thread I've ever read on these boards.

Did you actually read it all? I just kind of skimmed all the arguing for more references to Olivia Munn and just how much Erik Mona would pay for her.

FabesMinis wrote:

This is the most insane thread I've ever read on these boards.

Did you actually read it all? I just kind of skimmed all the arguing for more references to Olivia Munn and just how much Erik Mona would pay for her.

Are we bidding, here? Because, really, $1 can be outdone.

Wolf Munroe wrote:

FabesMinis wrote:

This is the most insane thread I've ever read on these boards.

Did you actually read it all? I just kind of skimmed all the arguing for more references to Olivia Munn and just how much Erik Mona would pay for her.

Are we bidding, here? Because, really, $1 can be outdone.

Oh, easily, especially with the relative weakness of the dollar these days.

Is anyone here actually interested in discussing shoes printed with fan-created custom art? I was hoping my post on the previous page re custom tees, shoes and mugs might be sufficient enough detour sign to enable some actual discussion. Has anyone here submit designs to threadless or zazzle or similar sites, and what has been your experience? Maybe my methods were too subtle, or maybe noone really cares for custom merchandise. Otherwise, with all due respect, I really see no purpose in following what I had hoped might be an interesting thread.

Is anyone here actually interested in discussing shoes printed with fan-created custom art? I was hoping my post on the previous page re custom tees, shoes and mugs might be sufficient enough detour sign to enable some actual discussion. Maybe my methods were too subtle, or maybe noone really cares for custom merchandise. Otherwise, with all due respect, I really see no purpose in following what I had hoped might be an interesting thread.

Definitely.

I plan on messing around with the design program once the contest starts on the 30th. There's so much great D&D art out there that I could probably lose hours and hours just fiddling with it. Some of the examples on their website for the Magic shoes are really creative.

Companies tend to make custom branded mugs, shirts, etc. Shoes, not so much. Seems like an untapped resource.

Scott,

I can't speak for everyone but myself personally I don't stop people from bashing 4th because I don't quite care for it myself nor most of what WotC has decided to do. I no longer like the company so when people start bashing it, I understand they are likewise venting their frustration with the game.

A lot of the stuff they say I agree with so if they feel like voicing their mind then go for it. However if someone else like yourself comes along to voice THEIR side then that's fine too. It's going to happen. Hell Democrats and Republicans do it.

However you stating that the community let's it happen and is part of the problem I find a bit off. The situation with Wizards of the Coast is NOT on the same level with other boards dealing with keeping company bashing in line.

WotC holds THE foundation, the NAME of Dungeons and Dragons. A lot more people were hurt and felt more betrayed and frankled quite angry with things WotC decided to do. So with it being a bigger company and bigger changes, this is GOING to happen.

It's a dicussion or an argument or whatever it turns into. But at the end of the day it's still just words so I don't see why it should have to be policed by the board community because things get heated.

Man I wish I could type less long winded posts but basically I understand that 4e lovers will come to defend their game of choice but I also understand and empathize with the fact a lot of people are still flat out angry and likely will be for some time. And quite frankly, venting frustrations sometimes helps and in general a lot of us feel this is a good and safe place to do it with other likeminded individuals.

... am I making sense or did I lose my meaning somewhere?

Is anyone here actually interested in discussing shoes printed with fan-created custom art?... Otherwise, with all due respect, I really see no purpose in following what I had hoped might be an interesting thread.

I hear you dude.

Personally, I think it's a great idea, I don't get why anyone argues that WotC is reaching on this one, but I suspect some of the posters have forgotten the difference in likes between a teenage D&D player and a grizzled grognard.

Of course, let's remember that the OP's point was that this was somehow a straw on the proverbial camel's back and he'd had about enough of WotC's marketing. Hence the general tone of the thread.... Although if you put up a thread for people to brainstorm design ideas it probably wouldn't be much more positive. Or so I suspect.

I don't get why anyone argues that WotC is reaching on this one, but I suspect some of the posters have forgotten the difference in likes between a teenage D&D player and a grizzled grognard.

Personally I just want worn leather boots that fold down at the top to come back into style.

Man I wish I could type less long winded posts but basically I understand that 4e lovers will come to defend their game of choice but I also understand and empathize with the fact a lot of people are still flat out angry and likely will be for some time. And quite frankly, venting frustrations sometimes helps and in general a lot of us feel this is a good and safe place to do it with other likeminded individuals.

It's been over a year. That's more than long enough. Continuing to hate on something, unprovoked, at this point is not healthy.

And while some of you may feel that you have a safe place where you can verbally trash another company free of criticism, that's a) not true, as you will receive criticism for unjustified vitriol, and b) not conducive to an open, accepting community.

It's time to accept that there is yet another game out there you don't like, that there's yet another company out there you don't like, and that in the interest of fostering a tolerant community you need make an effort to get over the anger.

Kruelaid wrote:

I don't get why anyone argues that WotC is reaching on this one, but I suspect some of the posters have forgotten the difference in likes between a teenage D&D player and a grizzled grognard.

Personally I just want worn leather boots that fold down at the top to come back into style.

Can mine have mind flayers burnt into the side?

DarkWhite wrote:

Is anyone here actually interested in discussing shoes printed with fan-created custom art?... Otherwise, with all due respect, I really see no purpose in following what I had hoped might be an interesting thread.

I hear you dude.

Personally, I think it's a great idea, I don't get why anyone argues that WotC is reaching on this one, but I suspect some of the posters have forgotten the difference in likes between a teenage D&D player and a grizzled grognard.

Of course, let's remember that the OP's point was that this was somehow a straw on the proverbial camel's back and he'd had about enough of WotC's marketing. Hence the general tone of the thread.... Although if you put up a thread for people to brainstorm design ideas it probably wouldn't be much more positive. Or so I suspect.

As ashamed as I am to admit this when I was a kid I didn't let ANYONE know I played D&D in high school. My brother and I (he was 2 years younger so when I was a junior he was a freshman) gamed primarily with homeschooled kids along with one or two other people that went to our school. We had the luxury of not really standing out as D&D types.

The both of us spent our highschool lives and even before that practicing the art of being ignored; completely. We have never been in any real fight in our lives and stayed pretty quiet in school.

So basically we weren't about to advertise any form of gaming aside from playing Magic on occasion which wasn't as taboo (we live in the south by the way in Tennessee at the time and Alabama now). Heck even the typical looking gamers didn't do it either. But thats here so I can't say how the rest of the world does things.

Course now I wear a Drizzt shirt out on the town happily enough with D&D's logo on the back and any wolverine shirt I can find as I've grown more confident in myself over the years. Life lessons eh?

Also, is $1,000 dollars a good reward price for a design for a shoe? Or is it fairly subpar of what most people might get paid for such a thing?

Also, is $1,000 dollars a good reward price for a design for a shoe?

I'd guess that given the fact that everyone has an equal opportunity to have their design seen, and that the design program is reportedly pretty easy to use, it's probably worth giving it a shot if you think you have a winning idea.

I think it would be awesome if a Paizo fan came up with the winning design.

Mikaze wrote:

Kruelaid wrote:

I don't get why anyone argues that WotC is reaching on this one, but I suspect some of the posters have forgotten the difference in likes between a teenage D&D player and a grizzled grognard.

Personally I just want worn leather boots that fold down at the top to come back into style.

Can mine have mind flayers burnt into the side?

Hell, go one step further and have 'em made out of genuine mind flayer skin.

I'm not sure how well squid skin tans.

Is anyone here actually interested in discussing shoes printed with fan-created custom art? I was hoping my post on the previous page re custom tees, shoes and mugs might be sufficient enough detour sign to enable some actual discussion. Has anyone here submit designs to threadless or zazzle or similar sites, and what has been your experience? Maybe my methods were too subtle, or maybe noone really cares for custom merchandise. Otherwise, with all due respect, I really see no purpose in following what I had hoped might be an interesting thread.

Shirts and mugs? Yes.

Shoes? Ehhhh.

Honestly, looking through the shoes for the "Magic: The Gathering" voting going on right now, I would say that I wouldn't really want to wear most of them. I prefer simple solid colors for my shoes, and I can't see myself getting shoes with art like that on them. Just because I think the art on the shoe is wonderful, doesn't mean I would like to have it on my footwear.

////
Except this pair. I would actually wear these shoes. They are simple, effective, show that I play "Magic: The Gathering" and I don't need to shove it in someone's face for them to see what it is about.

They are my favorite design that I've seen. I rank them a 5 merely because there is nothing higher. They make me laugh, but as I picture myself wearing them, I don't see myself being embarrassed by wearing them.

Edit: I can not seem to stop coming back to this to add that I really like these shoes far beyond 90% of the others and still more than the other shoes that I like. I really do like this shoe design. If they made something like it with a similar mindset (not an art piece on your shoe) would find it hard not to get them right away.

Edit2: I go on further that if you hate these shoes, that you just have no sole.
////

But back to the shoe contest in general, many seem to use it as a reason to take a piece of art that they like, and place it on some footwear. That, for me, is going to not result in a good set of footwear. I'm somewhat concerned that this might result in people voting for the prettier art on the shoe, rather than people actually voting for the better looking shoe.

Hell, go one step further and have 'em made out of genuine mind flayer skin.

Won't anyone call People for the Ethical Treatment of Aberrations?

Misery wrote:

Man I wish I could type less long winded posts but basically I understand that 4e lovers will come to defend their game of choice but I also understand and empathize with the fact a lot of people are still flat out angry and likely will be for some time. And quite frankly, venting frustrations sometimes helps and in general a lot of us feel this is a good and safe place to do it with other likeminded individuals.

It's been over a year. That's more than long enough. Continuing to hate on something, unprovoked, at this point is not healthy.

And while some of you may feel that you have a safe place where you can verbally trash another company free of criticism, that's a) not true, as you will receive criticism for unjustified vitriol, and b) not conducive to an open, accepting community.

It's time to accept that there is yet another game out there you don't like, that there's yet another company out there you don't like, and that in the interest of fostering a tolerant community you need make an effort to get over the anger.

It depends on the situation of it being unprovoked. This thread in question they saw something that triggered the bitter feelings. Hell it's been 2 years since I quit and moved on from one of my jobs and I still got bad memories and feelings over that place. If someone talks about it I do indeed still have the bad feelings for the place ... stinkin hell hole >_>

I also don't think a lot of people's criticism's are unjustified even though your wording makes it sound more like a fact. I'm going to assume that was just poor wording as I do myself a lot and it's your opinion that the way people feel about this is unjustified.

As for trashing another company free of criticism or for that matter trashing anything, I didn't mean for it to sound like it's even possible. I tend to keep my posts fairly light on hate scales with me just saying "I don't care for this or this or this," but staying away from the "Wizards are money grubbing b#@@%&#&s who don't care about anything but teh cash and making me mads and eating babies". Yea, that's over the top but I stay away from commenting on those posts because it's kind of hard to take someone like that seriously.

Same way it's hard to take 4e people that claim 3e and paizo lovers are some sort of extreme negative as well. Heck the edition wars caused me to generally stay away from the wizards forums because it just got WAY too much. So I started frequenting Candlekeep more ... which was a lot more WotC anomosity then I've viewed yet here (doesn't mean it's true just that I haven't seen as much). The whole forgotten realms being screwed with and all.

I guess I understand that some people may never get over their bitterness or disappointment with wizards. Same way I understand some people will always be there to argue with them.

Some things just won't change or heal with time. I accept that so I'm not asking for a free ride (but you'll also not likely find me posting extremisms either) but just trying to ... iono ... air things?

Shirts and mugs? Yes.

Shoes? Ehhhh.

Except this pair. I would actually wear these shoes. They are simple, effective, show that I play "Magic: The Gathering" and I don't need to shove it in someone's face for them to see what it is about.

I really do like this shoe design. If they made something like it with a similar mindset (not an art piece on your shoe) would find it hard not to get them right away.

Would you wear your pathfinder Society faction symbol printed on a pair of solid-colour shoes, similar to the t-shirt designs? (some colours lend themselves better to footwear than others, depending on what you'd wear them with).

Misery wrote:

Also, is $1,000 dollars a good reward price for a design for a shoe?

I'd guess that given the fact that everyone has an equal opportunity to have their design seen, and that the design program is reportedly pretty easy to use, it's probably worth giving it a shot if you think you have a winning idea.

I think it would be awesome if a Paizo fan came up with the winning design.

Guess that's true. If nothing for people trying to make a name for themselves in the designing business it'll look good in a portfolio and such.

Too bad it's on your feet where it'll be mostly unseen.

... then again I hardly ever get past my wife's chest so god only knows what she has on her feet >_>

Noting that kids shoes are available for custom designs on Zazzle, how cool would a Pathfinder goblin printed on a pair of kids shoes be?

I can imagine my young nephews now, chasing each other around in their Pathfinder goblin sneakers chanting the Goblin song!

The shoes look cool. I wonder when we can buy them.

As to the OP, you're complaining about shoes, get a real life.
I wonder if you would so pissed if Paizo came up with the idea?

Noting that kids shoes are available for custom designs on Zazzle, how cool would a Pathfinder goblin printed on a pair of kids shoes be?

I can imagine my young nephews now, chasing each other around in their Pathfinder goblin sneakers chanting the Goblin song!

I have a 6 year old daughter.

... tempting.

How about laptop or shoulder bags? I've seen some custom designed in Melbourne night markets. The designs seemed more to appeal to women, but I think a laptop bag I could bring to games/conventions carry on the tram/train with my own design might be quite cool. I wonder if there are any websites catering to this market?

I would consider it. Pretty much anything that doesn't force them to look at or below my waist to examine the design is much more strongly considered for me.

Would you wear your pathfinder Society faction symbol printed on a pair of solid-colour shoes, similar to the t-shirt designs? (some colours lend themselves better to footwear than others, depending on what you'd wear them with).

I would definitely consider it (Edit: Considered it and unless the particular design makes me giddy, the answer would be "no"), but as I have not bought even the T-shirts yet, it would be still a bit from be going out to buy them for shoes. They still fall below the "Tap Dancing" shoes in my mind, which manages to bring a bit of joy to my heart as well.

Know that I think about it, I don't think I would be considering buying any sort of special footwear and I would prefer to get something less expensive and more visible. Once again the "Tap Dancing" shoes make me reconsider this because I like them so much. I'm might want to buy similar Pathfinder or D&D shoes, but can't say without seeing some sample.

They still fall below the "Tap Dancing" shoes in my mind, which manages to bring a bit of joy to my heart as well.

Not ever having played a game of MTG, I don't really understand the "Tap Dancing" thing, but I do get that it's subtle and clever and that MTG players get the inside joke, gamer culture reference.

I agree that it helps having a clever "hook" more than just pretty artwork to draw emotional attachment to a product, but finding the right "hook" can be elusive - it's often like capturing lightning in a bottle.

I'm just glad to see some companies branching wider than the tried-and-true custom t-shirts and mugs.

I read an article recently about how the internet was bringing (yet another) revolution to the way we shop. It started with the concept of Sunday craft markets, where you could buy framed artwork, hand-crafted soaps, you know the drill. Well, it's hard being a market crafter, some days you sell, others you don't. Then the internet, eBay and other outlets appeared, and suddenly the crafters market went global!

The upshot of this is that customers can find a wider range of highly custom and unique products online. Showing off expensive name-brand labels is rapidly falling out of fashion, in favour of wearing unique creations that reflect your personality and lifestyle. And online sellers are quickly learning that forming a personal relationship with their customers is the way to attract loyalty, word-of-mouth referrals etc. In a way, exactly what Paizo are doing with their subscription model, being so approachable to customers on their message-boards, being responsive to Paizo community trends, and PaizoCon! As opposed to the more traditional corporate approach.

MTG art shoes aren't going to appeal to everyone, but the internet is a vast and wondrous place, which is why custom design online stores are appearing. There's room for tap dancing shoes for you, laptop bags for me, and goblin sneakers for the kids, in a choice of size, style and colour!

Can we get back to talking about Olivia Munn? I never heard to her until last night and I want more.

In Magic: The Gathering, you spread out cards in front of you, representing resources that you can use to either play more resources from your hand or attack your opponent's resources. Halfway through your turn, you wil have spent some resources, but not others, and the visual way to keep track of which ones you've used is to turn the cards sideways. This is called "tapping" the resource, and is represented by the "bent arrow" symbol on the shoe in question.

It's a merry little pun, in the spirit of the men's tie that had a small, repeating pattern of the PC "on / off symbol (the circle with the vertical segment at the top). That is to say, the "power tie".

Can we get back to talking about Olivia Munn? I never heard to her until last night and I want more.

Did you check her website? She's got some funny going on.

And then there's the OMFG: Olivia Munn Fan Group.

I'm not a fan of the specific piece of art used in this demo model...

Gravesworm Ryzing

...but I can imagine any number of great pieces of D&D (or even MTG) art that would look great when painted on the canvas like that.

Choosing among the proposed MTG designs (well, the half of them that I've clicked through), here's a pair of shoes that I would actually love to wear:

Squirrels!

Tarren Dei wrote:

Can we get back to talking about Olivia Munn? I never heard to her until last night and I want more.

Did you check her website? She's got some funny going on.

And then there's the OMFG: Olivia Munn Fan Group.

Yes, ... on that ... What's the fastest way to close Internet Explorer when your wife walks into the room?

aylengyr wrote:

Well it smells like a marketing ploy intentioned to aid in pushing dnd to the young casual gamer crowd. Like I said, an attempt to make it palatable to the new players weaned on modern ps3/xbox games. A visualization: a young child is sitting on the floor near you and you are snapping your fingers at it and saying look at me, come on look here. Trying to keep its focus on you. This is why I don't approve. It's debasing to the real players. Real players don't need strange marketing ploys to keep their attention and it shows how far the game has fallen that WOTC feels like it has to resort to these things to keep the mass publics attention. I also perfectly understand that these things have happened before, history is funny that way. Lots of silly stuff happened with them(TSR and friends) also. I still didn't approve.

What we need is some type of card or tatoo so we can differentiate these "real players" from their counterparts, which I can only assume are either "imaginary players" or robots.

Maybe we could come up with a secret handshake! That would be so cool. I always have trouble identifying the individuals I should scorn. The other alternative I could imagine would be to let them post their thoughts on a public internet forum and identify them by what they say and how hard it makes me laugh.

You need a reason to scorn? I thought it came as naturally as a bird s&#!ting on my car ten minutes after I washed it!

Damn, now I have to rethink my entire perception of the universe.

Re: The Topic. They're freaking shoes! Who cares?

Olivia!

Um, damn?

...and I expect Scott Rouse would probably be pretty hurt by some of the things seen here...

Scott, if Mr. Rouse would get upset by stuff on a message board (and a message board mostly populated by people not buying his stuff anyway), dude needs therapy.

Seriously.

Can we get back to talking about Olivia Munn? I never heard to her until last night and I want more.

OUCH!

I am not sure if my eyes hurt, or I need a confession.

Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Olivia Munn - the most important thing I learned on the messageboards this week.

Wolf Munroe wrote:

FabesMinis wrote:

This is the most insane thread I've ever read on these boards.

Did you actually read it all? I just kind of skimmed all the arguing for more references to Olivia Munn and just how much Erik Mona would pay for her.

Are we bidding, here? Because, really, $1 can be outdone.

Wait. There's an auction?

Damn, of all the times to not be an international drug smuggler anymore...

Frickin' square jobs keepin' me from making a serious bid...

...On the topic of these shoes..... perhaps I've missed what the issue is...? Outside of the "Once you've finished min/maxing your design," I'm not sure I see any issues.

On the shoes:
I'd never wear graphics-adorned shoes like that, but maybe I'm just getting too old (I can see the appeal of the "Tap dancing" shoes, but that's more because it's a simple symbol on the side of the shoe (which could really be anything) - I've never actually played M:tG).

Olivia Munn (never heard of her before this thread):
Seriously? You guys think she's so damn hot? Meh, I find her quite boring and ordinary. Yawn'ish really.

aylengyr wrote:

Ok I was going to say /ignore again, BUT what you said was reasonable, so here goes. No what you said was not in the least provocative, EXCEPT you went out of your way to come over here and post it.

Wow. Forgive me for chiming in.

aylengyr wrote:

Ok check it out, the title of the thread is obviously uh not so friendly to 4.0/wotc.

No. The thread title is "If I wasn't convinced before ..." which says absolutely nothing about what the contents of the thread might be.

aylengyr wrote:

So why come post here at all?

It never struck you that maybe people might want to talk about the shoe contest?

aylengyr wrote:

Clearly you were looking for trouble and you found it.

Actually, I was looking to read the thread. I then came across something - namely, your post - which immediately struck me as hostile and terribly unreasonable, not to mention the latest in a terrifyingly long string of threads which make it very clear that the Paizo fanbase is, on the whole, both a) overtly hostile towards WotC, and b) when not overtly hostile, unwilling to take others to task for their overt hostility towards WotC.

aylengyr wrote:

If you don't want trouble don't look for it.

One might say the same about you sharing your opinion of the shoe article. If you're allowed to rant against WotC's shoe contest, what possible ground could you stand on to say that I'm not allowed to rant against your own rant?

aylengyr wrote:

I think if you disagree with my post you should ignore it, or say something about how you disagree, but understand that you can''t change my mind about it.

It's really unfortunate that this is the case. I prefer to start with the optimistic view that a person's mind is open to change, but all too often that turns out to not be true.

aylengyr wrote:

I just think you came over here and picked on my post because you were looking for trouble and that is what I think is provocative.

...

Ok I at first posted something else here but on retroflection I decided this was all a silly thing. I didn't even say anything bad!!!! Oh and I think your coming here and posting not on topic but on my post was certainly you looking for trouble. You know anytime anyone posts about someone else's post and no the thread they are picking a fight. But anyway look I'm moving on, I have work to do and I can no longer be bothered defending myself over here for my opinions. I will just say this last piece. I have my opinions and I WILL POST THEM HERE unless PAIZO asks me not to. This is their forums. Otherwise I HIGHLY suggest you do as I am going to do and when I see your hostile posts I will reply, If I reply at all with only /IGNORE.

...On the topic of these shoes..... perhaps I've missed what the issue is...? Outside of the "Once you've finished min/maxing your design," I'm not sure I see any issues.

I laughed SO hard when I read that. And I know what you thought, and you know I thought the same thing, so there is no need to post it so that the thought police can come, on our own turf, and tell us we must defend ourselves or change.