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First off, if you are a female gamer, by no means is this thread meant to be offensive. This is my personal opinion, and is meant to be voiced and not as an attack.
or, in otherwords, I'm exercising my 1st amendment rights.
I am a Female Gamer, and I am hetrosexual, and I support scantily clad females in gaming.
and now I'll tell you why.
I've been a gamer for most of my life. (I believe, it's been over 13 years). I started when I was young, about five or so. And scantily clad female archetypes were everywhere. My mother taught me long ago, that you show the world your own opinion of yourself by how you present yourself. At at that young age this is what I saw.
A female. Standing proud, confident and not caring about the societal norm. In most rpg settings, a conservative society abounds. These women threw their swords in the face of that society and said "Look at me! I'm strong, I'm beautiful, and I'm not going to hid it!"
At that young age, I saw those warrior women. and I wanted to be them!
I wanted to be confident. I wanted to be beautiful. I wanted to be respected as an equal combatant by the men in my 'party'. And yes. I wanted to cast magic and wield a sword like Boudecia.
Yes, men love scantily clad women. It's Nature!
Admit it women, you want to be in charge sometimes. You want to be the one wielding the sword! You want to be strong and confident, just like these women.
I don't believe this objectifies women. I believe this empowers women.
It did for me.
Snorter
(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber; GameMastery Superscriber)
Karui Kage
(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber)
Elizabeth Cougill
(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game, Campaign Setting, Companion, Battles Case Subscriber)
I am also a Female Gamer (though I didn't know until now that I qualified for capital letters -- yippee!) and a Female Game Designer and I like the occasional scantily clad woman as well. What I don't like is a pervasive, unchanging image of the scantily clad fantasy-woman as the only available model in RPGs. Variety, after all, is the spice of life.
-Amber S., who likes sexy medusas
I am also a Female Gamer (though I didn't know until now that I qualified for capital letters -- yippee!) and a Female Game Designer and I like the occasional scantily clad woman as well. What I don't like is a pervasive, unchanging image of the scantily clad fantasy-woman as the only available model in RPGs. Variety, after all, is the spice of life.
-Amber S., who likes sexy medusas
I think that may be part of the point. The people side trying to censor the "scantily clad heroine" out of all gaming/art/etc. are just as wrong as troglidites (like myself :D ) who would make that the only option.
The Gamer Girl portraying a "Scantily Clad" Heroine can be empowering when it is her choice. After all, Women's Right coincided with both the mini-skirt and the bikini - there appears to be a correlation. :)
Kudos to you!!! (and in my years of gaming, only a few times has it been only males...now I wont say that the female gamers were in abundance, but they were and are there. Hell a few years aago I was in a campaign with 2 guys and 4 women...now granted they were my sister and her three daughters, *chuckle* but still....)
Inara, thank you for the thread - your thoughts are quite similar to mine. :)
I am also a Female Gamer (though I didn't know until now that I qualified for capital letters -- yippee!) and a Female Game Designer and I like the occasional scantily clad woman as well. What I don't like is a pervasive, unchanging image of the scantily clad fantasy-woman as the only available model in RPGs. Variety, after all, is the spice of life.
You put the words in my mouth! :D
-Liz C., who likes shmexy succubi and naughty pretty boys
My wife, who Lilith and the rest of the chatgoers know, is a gamer.
She and I also raise and breed a type of gecko called Rhacodactylus Ciliatus, called Crested Geckos for short. When referring to the genus group as a whole they are usually just called 'Rhacs."
My wife has recently stated to me that she wants a T-shirt that says
"Hey! Nice Rhac!" Across the chest.
Now to distract everyone with a peaceful picture of my Rhacodactylus Leachianus,
Snorter
(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber; GameMastery Superscriber)
Hugo Solis
(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber)
My game group of 6 (regular at least)has 2 women in it. My wife and my brother's wife. I must say that in the group, my brother's wife if the one "with the pants" and usually leads the group on the "subtle manipulative" way women and DMs are so familiar with... And my wife is always the quite one in the background always ready to jump and save the party from a TPK with her "mighty-yet-discreet" PCs. So, the women in my group are the ones leading the party in the end, and believe me, they are not afraid or humbled by wearing the long-but-fashioned cloak or the chain-mail bikini, and WOE to the PC or NPC who dares to make sarcastic or demeaning remarks on their outfits... I don't want to think where will their staves or swords swill end up (literally "up")!
I completely agree. I am a female gamer, and if the guys get off on pretending to be strong and athletic, I don't see any difference between that and my wanting to play a character who is attractive and not ashamed to show it off. I have been surprised by the attitudes of others I have gamed with, who are shocked when I choose to play a female character who is not ashamed of her sexuality. And I'm there going, huh? If that had been a male character doing that you wouldn't have even blinked. And this even from another female gamer who claims to be a feminist. That just seems so...wrong.
I don't mind the "scantily clad" females in this venue at all but I do wish they would illustrate a female character -- who is not one of the monsters (such as Mama Graul) who isn't unrealistically beautiful.
And I hate that women fighters put a wee bit of armor over their t#&~ and ass and wear nothing else -- oh, or armor where the breasts are displayed instead of hidden.
-W. E. Ray
I don't mind the "scantily clad" females in this venue at all but I do wish they would illustrate a female character -- who is not one of the monsters (such as Mama Graul) who isn't unrealistically beautiful.
And I hate that women fighters put a wee bit of armor over their t@&@ and ass and wear nothing else -- oh, or armor where the breasts are displayed instead of hidden.
-W. E. Ray
I blame the artist, who failed to show that these women were protected by magical force fields one centimeter above their skin!
Seriously, this is a funny and interesting topic. Again, it comes down to choice. Ladies, you have the absolute right to choose. Any image you desire. I suspect the male gamer population adores 99% of you.
I completely agree. I am a female gamer, and if the guys get off on pretending to be strong and athletic, I don't see any difference between that and my wanting to play a character who is attractive and not ashamed to show it off. I have been surprised by the attitudes of others I have gamed with, who are shocked when I choose to play a female character who is not ashamed of her sexuality. And I'm there going, huh? If that had been a male character doing that you wouldn't have even blinked. And this even from another female gamer who claims to be a feminist. That just seems so...wrong.
Remember there is no single definition of "Feminist" any more.
My wife has recently stated to me that she wants a T-shirt that says
"Hey! Nice Rhac!" Across the chest.
I swear, one of the T-shirts I want the most is the shirt with two d20s right over the chest area, standing at 20. The quote of course being: "yes, they're natural."
Seriously though. It's great to know that my opinion is being heard. And even greater to know that it was well recieved. It unfortunately seems that a Female Gamer with my opinion is rare.
Nice to know I'm not the only one out there.
My wife has recently stated to me that she wants a T-shirt that says
"Hey! Nice Rhac!" Across the chest.
I swear, one of the T-shirts I want the most is the shirt with two d20s right over the chest area, standing at 20. The quote of course being: "yes, they're natural."
Seriously though. It's great to know that my opinion is being heard. And even greater to know that it was well recieved. It unfortunately seems that a Female Gamer with my opinion is rare.
Nice to know I'm not the only one out there.
Though neither of them are Paizoians, two of the four members of our group are female, and both of them pretty much share your opinions.
And one of the two women in my group wants that shirt as well. :)
Seriously though. It's great to know that my opinion is being heard. And even greater to know that it was well recieved. It unfortunately seems that a Female Gamer with my opinion is rare.
I'd be surprised if it is that rare, just a less-frequently discussed issue. Afer all, people are more likely to post "That really annoys me!" than "I quite relaxed about that" - the motivation to post the former is greater than the latter.
Something to think about too everyone, is that people who have what I might term an 'enlightened' view of things (i.e. Don't care what society or feminist movements say and just do what feels right to them), who are willing to express those views are not common people. Essentially, at least in my experience, being fully open to personal freedom is not something a lot of people are willing to understand or accept.
Inara, you expressed in your first post the exact same way I see such portrayals of female characters of this sort. Its not objectifications, its more like admiration. There is a strong, independent (perish the thought) woman who doesn't give a damn what others think and will be that way regardless.
My admiration and attraction to such women is one of the reasons I asked the lady who is now my wife to marry me. That is exactly the sort of woman I wanted to have in my life. Not an ornament, but a woman who wasn't afraid to be the person she really was.
As a side note, my wife is a total spitfire, a kickboxer of respectable skill and defeater of telemarketers everywhere. I love her so much.
Thanks Inara for making a posting that I didn't have to tiptoe on.
Oh...and my wife calls me a pervert all the time (like daily), but she has told me she likes me that way...go figure?
Yasha
My group was talking about things like this earlier... The core group consists of myself (GMing), and an old friend of mine (occasional GM) and her husband. And some part timers who drift in and out, work schedules permitting.
She always plays male characters, Adonis-esque paladins, or half-orc barbarians. I always play female sorceresses or bards.
It is an odd trend. Lol. Although I suppose I shouldn't try to psychoanalyze us. I probably wouldn't like what I found, LOL.
Variety and choice are all good things in this case. Practical clothing and scanty clothing, beautiful and less-than-beautiful characters, etc.
As a side note, a fellow Female Gamer suggested that the scantily-/impractically-clad miniatures were simply the characters as seen when posing for a portrait (full body, as opposed to head and shoulders). Maybe posing for very private portraits in some cases ... :)
- One more Female Gamer
Tharen the Damned
(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber)
And mine axe!You can count on MY steel!and my bow?
And my...sharpened pencil*!
* I can also disarm people with my ruler.**
** I can not believe I spent 2 Feats for this.
Tharen the Damned
(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber)
I don't mind the "scantily clad" females in this venue at all but I do wish they would illustrate a female character -- who is not one of the monsters (such as Mama Graul) who isn't unrealistically beautiful.-W. E. Ray
She is no Monster! She is just a girl with a mighty appetite! In GB or Ireland you would call her a "Ladette"!
Agreed, from yet another female gamer! My main problem with scantily clad women in fantasy is that it sets off the same alarm bells in my head as say, the ridiculous costumes characters wear in some Japanese RPGs. I like my fantasy characters attractive and wearing clothing that flatter them (though a realistic variety of body shapes is good, people don't need to be a pair of melons attached to a stick to be incredibly attractive after all), and I accept that characters are not going to be depicted in truly realistic adventuring clothing, nor would I want them to be (boring!), but it seems my threshold for the flat-out ridiculous is fairly low. I can't switch off the part of my brain going "But... but... she's in the arctic! She'd freeze to death!"
On the other hand Justified scantily clad, strong women? Now that I can get behind. A warrior in a tropical climate, an arcane caster, a social rogue, or any character during their down time; if it would be in character to be dressed in an alluring fashion, then awesome! This goes for any character willing to shell out for Glamered armour too :P.
Incidentally, I've been part of my RP society for over 5 years now, and our female membership has been steadily growing. It's still very much male dominated, but we've really got quite a few girl-gamers these days. I've also noticed when we're recruiting the new university students, that it's far easier to get the girls who know nothing about RP curious about the hobby than the guys, so hopefully this trend will continue :).
Tharen the Damned
(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber)
On the other hand Justified scantily clad, strong women? Now that I can get behind. A warrior in a tropical climate, an arcane caster, a social rogue, or any character during their down time; if it would be in character to be dressed in an alluring fashion, then awesome! This goes for any character willing to shell out for Glamered armour too :P.
For me Seoni is one of those justified scantily clad women. She does not need armor and knows she looks good and has the charisma.
On a sidenote: As much as i like to see women in High Heels, it is completely ridicoulous for most adventurers. Trecking though the woods or Dungeoncrawling in 5 inch Stilettos?
Thankfully all Iconis have sensible footwear. Although Seonis Sandals are pushing it.
I just don't like being patronised.
I'm 28, I think with my head, not with my penis. If my DM shows me a scantily clad warrior woman with a big sword I want to be thinking, in character; "So, the queen likes to unsettle and distract her guests, rather than having a real bodyguard - either she can protect herself well enough, or she's over-confident."
But I have to engage in a bit of meta-game thinking instead.
As in; "So the pictures of a supermodel in a leather thong, chainmail bra and 8ft long sword - but I'd better ask the DM to confirm what she's actually wearing, carrying and looks like."
Male characters usually have functional equipment and if they don't then it is revealing - we learn something about the character by looking at it. But with so many female characters, we don't.
I've just been re-reading Carnival of Tears - Valeros looks like a fighter, Namdrin's fancy cloak, long hair and paired short swords (scabbards across his back) tell me that he's a perfomer, rather than just a TWF.
I want versimilitude.
I am also a Female Gamer (though I didn't know until now that I qualified for capital letters -- yippee!) and a Female Game Designer and I like the occasional scantily clad woman as well. What I don't like is a pervasive, unchanging image of the scantily clad fantasy-woman as the only available model in RPGs. Variety, after all, is the spice of life.
-Amber S., who likes sexy medusas
I have to say I wholeheartedly agree with this. What I think many women may find offensive is not the "scantily-clad" part, but the single uber-curvy/bodacious body-type of the scantily clad woman. When the Dove commercials/ads came out featuring some more "plus-sized" women, I was very impressed.
More spice please.