Well if you want to see characters die I suggest reading Marvel Ultimatum they seem to be killing plenty in that (To the point that its actually getting really Really depressing.)

As depressing as when the "New Universe" started dying?

Kevin Mack wrote:

Well if you want to see characters die I suggest reading Marvel Ultimatum they seem to be killing plenty in that (To the point that its actually getting really Really depressing.)

As depressing as when the "New Universe" started dying?

Well, one reviewer described Ultimatium as "eye-rape."

I don't mind Ultimatum as a concept. But it seems to have gone from 'let's shake up the universe where death means something' to 'lets shock and disgust a lot of people'.

As to Wolverine/Cap/Thor dying, I'm one who's against it for iconics. Has Wolverine gotten silly? Yes. Is his death going to be sillier? Yes. Is his return in 1/3/5 years going to be silliest of all? Yes.

Somewhere people forgot that in comics the good guys are supposed to win. We don't root for Cap because he's in danger, we root for him because he doesn't know he has 'PC Shields' we root for Cap because he does the right thing. I trace Cap going downhill to 'Truth'. It offended me that they'd a) trivialize the Tuskeegee experiment like that and b) they'd darken Cap's origin story. Steve Rogers has been risking everything since he first took that serum.

Wolverine lost his edge when he lost the mystery.

Look at Batman. We all know Bruce is coming back eventually. Because he <i>is</i> Batman, no matter who wear's the cowl. Marvel used to know this about Cap. Take away the shield and the stars and stripes, Steve Rogers <i>remains</i> Captain America. John Walker proved that.

Eric Masterson is the polar opposite. He proved you don't have to be a god to be a hero. You have to step up.

I think that what's really disgusted me about Batman's "Death" is that we know he's coming back, DC knows he's coming back and they know we know. At least when they killed off Superman, they showed his dead body, they gave him a funeral and buried him. We might have known he was coming back, but they kept up the "show" for the benefit of the story.

Whatever time Pat's talking about up above.

I don't mind Ultimatum as a concept. But it seems to have gone from 'let's shake up the universe where death means something' to 'lets shock and disgust a lot of people'.

As to Wolverine/Cap/Thor dying, I'm one who's against it for iconics. Has Wolverine gotten silly? Yes. Is his death going to be sillier? Yes. Is his return in 1/3/5 years going to be silliest of all? Yes.

I'm actually taking him at his word that "dead means dead" and that Wolverine is not coming back, mostly because he doesn't have to worry about being forced to bring him back, and also, I've got a hunch that

Somewhere people forgot that in comics the good guys are supposed to win. We don't root for Cap because he's in danger, we root for him because he doesn't know he has 'PC Shields' we root for Cap because he does the right thing.

QFT. Even antiheroes still are motivated by what's right. Han Solo may have wanted the money, but he still came back to save Luke's bacon at the end of the movie. They just go about upholding right in a way different from the stereotypical "knight in shining armor." But the post-modern BS of the "Dork Age" 90s threw that for a loop.

I trace Cap going downhill to 'Truth'. It offended me that they'd a) trivialize the Tuskeegee experiment like that and b) they'd darken Cap's origin story. Steve Rogers has been risking everything since he first took that serum.

Again, it's the idea that "everything you thought you knew is wrong" and "nothng in this world can go untarnished" with a hefty dose of politically correct sermonizing thrown in. And you're right -- the Tuskeegee experiments were mockeries of any sort of medical ethics and human dignity, and to turn them into the back-plot of Captain America? A disgrace.

Wolverine lost his edge when he lost the mystery.

If handled right, it could have worked. I just did not buy the convoluted BS story that was handed us in Origin. I liked the hints that Sabertooth was Wolverine's dad.

Take away the shield and the stars and stripes, Steve Rogers <i>remains</i> Captain America. John Walker proved that.

Well said. A true hero doesn't need fancy pajamas -- he just is.

Got to say part of me is worried that x-men forever will turn into Ultiimatum (ie killing characters just because they can or as some bizarre way of saying see dead means dead)

To answer the OP, yes, Steve Rogers is officially on his way back to the land of the living.

To answer the OP, yes, Steve Rogers is officially on his way back to the land of the living.

Dang, ya beat me to it!

That's dumb.

I'm shocked, shocked I say! This is a momentous occasion that has never happened before!

The anger that boils in me has no name....

Cant say I'm surprised (after all there is a movie with him in it coming out soon) Still doesn't mean I have to like it.

I'm not surprised, though the 'we need heroes to believe in now' bugs me. What? We didn't need them before?

Doesn't change that Marvel has already tainted and corrupted Cap some time ago.

I hope he's not "back from the dead" but really "he never died and they kept him in an induced coma in Zone 42" instead... :P

Well I'd prefer they explain that the formulae he was infused with has the effect of regenerating him as long as a) he's frozen and b)only technically dead rather than warm and dead and hopefully both of these cases are currently in effect if they really want to pull a Superman style ressurrection also have him involved in a fight in the afterlife as some hero goes looking for him to tell him Bucky is using a gun or some other effect explaining why he'd want to return at all maybe that cosmic cube he used to restore Bucky's memories or somesuch idea.

Well okay as long as it actually makes sense and not another attempt to mess the entire series up to cope with a serious lack of imagination.

PS:Don't get me started on Identity Crisis and what they did with Alexander Luthor, Superboy "Prime" or why Cyclops is still moping over Jean Grey when he was the one who split up with her before she died or the Madelyne Pryor mess!

Well I'd prefer they explain that the formulae he was infused with has the effect of regenerating him as long as a) he's frozen and b)only technically dead rather than warm and dead and hopefully both of these cases are currently in effect if they really want to pull a Superman style ressurrection also have him involved in a fight in the afterlife as some hero goes looking for him to tell him Bucky is using a gun or some other effect explaining why he'd want to return at all maybe that cosmic cube he used to restore Bucky's memories or somesuch idea.

Well okay as long as it actually makes sense and not another attempt to mess the entire series up to cope with a serious lack of imagination.

PS:Don't get me started on Identity Crisis and what they did with Alexander Luthor, Superboy "Prime" or why Cyclops is still moping over Jean Grey when he was the one who split up with her before she died or the Madelyne Pryor mess!

*poke* Batman creates an artificial intelligence to watch the heroes since he's paranoid because other heroes 'altered' his memory since they were lobotomizing villains who discovered their secret identities and then the artificial intelligence revolts!

Enough to get you started? :P

This is an excellent example of why I stopped reading most comics years ago.

*poke* Batman creates an artificial intelligence to watch the heroes since he's paranoid because other heroes 'altered' his memory since they were lobotomizing villains who discovered their secret identities and then the artificial intelligence revolts!

Enough to get you started? :P

Or that they infected a large number of people with nano tech turning them into OMACs so they could wipe out anyone or anything as a means of fighting... wait for it superhumans sorry metahumans or whatever the term they now use at the behest of a computer controlled by someone whose ability allows them to plant suggestions in others no offence but if he wants to fight superpowered people and programme that into an AI built by Batman wouldn't it make more sense that it would kill him as he's what he hates so much?

Sorry the answer to your question is yes but I actually read a little of Atom's past and when they hinted a link to Atom's wife I honestly thought they were going to use his history not refurbish some elaborate ruse that would even make Columbo shake his head in disbelief!

Here's the Captain Amercia Reborn Trailer at the Marvel.com website.

It looks cool. And this is the type of writing that has brought me back to reading comics lately. Very cool.

Swwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!

Cyclops is still moping over Jean Grey when he was the one who split up with her before she died

Given his relationship with Emma Frost, I think he's gotten past the moping phase pretty well. He even got criticized by the hairy dude with claws for 'not waiting for her body to get cold.' :)

Not that the Immortal Virgin has any business talking smack about other people's sex lives. The last girl he dated was like 15 years ago. He's re-hymenated twice by now. He's just jealous that Cyke hasn't gone 2 issues without being in bed with some incredibly hot super-powered babe, since he's been a teenager...

My Marvel pet peeve of the moment is, once again, the treatment of the Scarlet Witch (and Jan Van Dyne, who has mercifully been killed, rather than turned into a freakshow, like so many of her peers). Wanda miraculously survived being John Byrne's whipping post (how many times can one woman be impregnated / infested / possessed by alien and / or supernatural entities?), then became the source of everything wrong in the Marvel Universe with her 'no more humans / no more mutants' Wanda Ex Machina crap, and now she's the Avengers neighborhood bicyle, 'Step right up, *everybody* gets a ride! Heya Hawkeye, sorry I killed you, want to have sex by way of compensation?'

Steve Rodgers made it in as a gag in today's Order of the Stick.