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THE WHEEL OF TIME is an epic fantasy series written by South Carolina-based author Robert Jordan. Originally planned as a trilogy and then a six book series, the author passed away from a blood disease after finishing the eleventh book in the series. Another author, Brandon Sanderson, is completing the series from Jordan's notes (which he left behind for this eventuality). The first of his final three books comes out next month in the UK and USA. There are plenty of fantasy series around that are longer than 14 books, but generally these consist of smaller arcs or self-contained books merely set in the same universe, such as Raymond E. Feist's 30-volume RIFTWAR setting or RA Salvatore's Drizzt books, which are divided into many smaller trilogies. THE WHEEL OF TIME is unusual in that it is one sustained, continuing narrative: the story that begins on page 1 of Book 1 will not be concluded until the final page of Book 14. And these are not short books either: the shortest book in the series is still 600 pages long in paperback, whilst the longest two are about 1,000 pages. The series is immensely popular. Several of the biggest SF/fantasy websites on the Internet are dedicated to this series (or started off dedicated to it). It has sold 44 million copies since 1990, making it officially the second-biggest-selling epic fantasy series in history, behind only Tolkien's Middle-earth books. The last four books in a row were NYT #1 bestsellers. The impact of the series on the entire fantasy genre has been huge. Before Jordan, trilogies were all the rage, but since 1990 publishers have actively sought out longer series. Terry Goodkind and Steven Erikson were both contracted to write massive series purely as a response to Jordan's success (Erikson responding in an interesting and offbeat manner with his MALAZAN books, Goodkind, erm, with a corny derivative of WHEEL OF TIME but with more bondage). GRRM's A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE's initial success is often attributed to Jordan's cover quote on the first book saying how awesome it was. The series is a big deal. Not a HARRY POTTER level of a big deal, obviously, but still a dominant work in the genre sales-wise. Artistically and qualitively, the series has a bit more of a varied reaction. THE WHEEL OF TIME is also easily the most divisive fantasy series out there, bar none. What's it about
Effectively, the first three books see Rand and his companions as unknown adventurers gradually accumulating knowledge of the world and what is needed in the war to come. Rand 'goes public' in the fourth book and the series shifts into a political phase, with armies sweeping the land, large changes in the socio-political make-up of the main landmass and the gradual spread of war and chaos as the Dark One becomes more active. The last two books have seen the fabric of reality begin to wear thin, the introduction of more advanced technology (or re-introduction in some cases) and the revelation that the Last Battle is imminent. The later books also see Rand starting to unravel, as insanity is starting to claim him and he is also suffering various traumatic psychological shocks and stresses, not to mention grievous wounds suffered in battle. So a late-developing plot thread sees Rand's various friends and allies trying to keep him both alive and sane enough to see them through the final battle. There is also a major subplot which begins in the second book and continues throughout. A thousand years ago, a continent-spanning empire despatched a massive army and colonising fleet to conquer a continent on the far side of the world. The empire collapsed shortly after the fleet's launch, and it was presumed lost. Instead, the colony fleet succeeded, forging a massive empire built on the idea of using magical artifacts to enslave and control women who can channel, turning them into living weapons with no will of their own. This utterly formidable faction, the Seanchan, has now decided it wants to reconquer the homeland of its founders, and doesn't believe in the Last Battle or the Dragon Reborn or any of that guff. The presence of their armies in the later books gives Rand enormous headaches as he cannot fight the Seanchan and the Dark One simultaneously. What is good about the series?
The world is impressively detailed. The main continent (colloquially known as 'Randland' to the fandom, although the 'Westlands' is a favoured alternative) is home to a variety of different kingdoms, cultures, (human) races, ethnic groups and political ideologies, all of them built on the ruins of earlier kingdoms. There is a real sense of weight and history to the world. Jordan's world is batting on the same level as Middle-earth, Westeros, Earwa or the Realms for sheer scope and detail. Similarly, the One Power is incredibly well-detailed and intelligently-designed, not to mention remorselessly logical, with loopholes exploited to create ferocious weapons on occasion: the Dark One's non-human, genetically-engineered monstrous servants cannot pass through teleport gates (as only proper living matter can traverse them) and live, so our heroes promptly employ spinning mobile gates which prowl battlefields like mobile black holes, sucking enemy forces into them. Which is obviously badass. The One Power is probably the best magic system yet created for a work of fiction (although some may prefer the non-scientifically-rigorous, more mysterious magic of GRRM and Tolkien), probably not matched until the recent emergence of Scott Bakker and (appropriately) Brandon Sanderson. Jordan prefigures events books in advance: a dream sequence in Book 1 foreshadows major events in Book 7 and also some things expected to occur in the last book in the series. Whilst the author obviously had to introduce a lot of filler to spread the series out to 14 books, he clearly knew where the story was going from page 1 and many storyline elements are cleverly set-up hundreds or thousands of pages in advance. Many of Jordan's characters are genuinely interesting protagonists who evolve in a logical manner over the course of the series, such as the central core cast of Rand, Mat, Perrin, Egwene, Nynaeve, Lan, Moiraine and Thom and important supporting characters like Elaida, Pedron Niall and Davram Bashere. As well as the obvious epic fantasy stuff, Jordan explores SF ideas like quantum/parallel universes and temporal paradoxes, along with more primeval fantasy ideas like dreamscapes and mythology in interesting ways throughout the series. He also derives a lot of inspiration (but not always in the most obvious manner) from Norse and Celtic mythology, but also throws in some other ideas from Buddhism and Japanese mythology as well, to keep things interesting. Jordan writes very good battle sequences, in fact saving the best until the last book he wrote. What is bad about the series
Some of the supporting characters are really lame. Whilst a main castmember, Elayne is a really annoying character who shows little sign of change or growth throughout the story, basically starting as a spoiled noble in Book 1 and still being that way in Book 11. There is some evidence this is a deliberate choice rather than a writing failure, but it is annoying. The main villains (the senior servants of the Dark One) are also distinctly underwhelming, particularly the way they keep getting their asses kicked by the equivalent of medieval peasents. The writing varies from acceptable to pretty good but Jordan has a tendency to reuse phrases. A lot. The terms 'tugged her braid' and 'folded her arms under her breasts' appear a ridiculous number of times per book. The detail of the world may be impressive but Jordan delves too deeply into the minitiuae of the characters' lives in later books, sometimes using a whole chapter to cover characters taking a bath and talking about the plot, which the reader already knows about. Jordan certainly isn't/wasn't George RR Martin. He hasn't killed any of the major characters, and the secondary ones who die tend to be the more interesting and intriguing ones, leaving the bland ones untouched, which is somewhat irritating. Whilst there's no need for every series to be a bloodbath, it is stretching credulity that the dozen or so main characters could go through so many battles, skirmishes and fights and come out alive (although not unscathed). Also, the series is actually otherwise pretty brutal in its battle sequences. Field engagements leave behind heaps of corpses with crows gathering overhead and Jordan doesn't pull any punches when people start using the One Power to really unleash carnage. So the continued survival of the main cast seems a little implausible. The male/female relationship dynamic throughout the series is quite interesting, but very uneven. Lan and Nynaeve have a genuinely interesting and well-developed relationship throughout the series, but other characters (such as Perrin and Faile) feel like they're high school kids whose manner of letting one another know they like each other is to call each other names and argue a lot. There is a tendency for the relationship of the sexes to be boiled down to very basic and juvenile levels lacking the sophistication of real adult relationships. Book 1 is very close in tone and content to THE LORD OF THE RINGS (although it's not exactly the IRON TOWER or SHANNARA). The story goes in a completely different and far more interesting direction in Book 2, but Book 1 being so close to LotR is a bit uncomfortable and may put some readers off from proceeding further into the series. Summary
My recommendation: give it a go. It doesn't entirely deserve the slamming it often gets (usually by people who haven't read very far into the series), even if it's also overrated by its hardcore fanbase. There is some good stuff in there. I'm excited to see how Brandon Sanderson finishes it up. I'd love to compare his final book, er, 3 books with the notes he took in conversations with Jordan before his death. From what I gather from dragonmount.com, Jordan had written some key scenes and outlined the whole ending, but obviously there was a ton he hadn't done yet, if it was only once Sanderson got ahold of the reins that A Memory of Light turned into three more books. I'm sad that what could have been a nice even dozen-book-long series will now be an awkward 14. In any case, I will most likely wait until the final book comes out and then reread all of them. I would do that now before the new one, but I know I'd just want to do it again in another few years, and there's only so many times I can read about the hairstyles and clothing in Cairhien. I remember a friend lending me the first three books and they sat in a plastic bag in my family room for a couple of months before I got them out. I started to read the first and got a little ways in and told my then-wife "meh, it's okay but nothing really groundbreaking" - but about a third of the way through I started getting hooked. Might have been the first taste of Shadar Logoth and the splitting of the group that follows. Book 1 is actually very good, and it's fun to reread the wide-eyed innocence of the first few chapters in light of what we know is gonna go down later. Books 2 through 6 are the wheelhouse of the series, absolute lights-out awesome. Book 7 still pretty good. Book 8... well... okay, I guess, but it felt like there were about 200 pages missing at the end. Book 9... a bounce back to pretty good, with a fantastic ending. Book 10... oh, Crossroads of Twilight, how do we hate thee, let me count the ways. Book 11... hey, we're back on track! Could have been a little more, but still good. And plot threads get resolved! Yay! I'm also looking forward to the new book. I really should put it on my Christmas list, but I dunno if I can wait that long! I recommend this series to anyone with a bit of patience. I was given the first three books as a gift; after reading the first one I was fairly nonplussed so I neglected to read the second until I ran out of all other immediately available books. The second book was much more interesting, so when I finished inhaling that one I moved on to the third book and realized that this must be what crack addicts feel when they get their fix. I've read the whole series, including the recently written prelude, and despite its minor flaws I feel like an addict getting a fix every time. I even went back and read the first book again, something that I normally reserve only for LotR, and loved it the second time. I can't wait to read book 12, thanks for the heads-up Werthead! Say what you will about the man but Jordan clearly had talent. I was very disappointed with a few books but I kept reading. I enjoyed his characters, and after seven or eight books and thousands and thousands of pages I was pretty much hooked and I knew I was going to need to finish this series to see how it ended. I had too much time and energy invested to do otherwise :) BTW, nice write up there Werthead Sanderson has confirmed the real title for Book 13 will be Towers of Midnight, a reference to the Seanchan fortress in the city of Imfaral (where the first a'dam were created) which has thirteen towers. Appropriate. So that means the full series is: 1: The Eye of the World (1990)
Nice :-) I read the first five books (including the prelude), and just lost interest, life is too short. Your post makes it look much more interesting than it is. The series made the final nail in the coffin for my hate of prophecies and most dark lords. It has many great ideas and concepts (from my favourite mythologies) but they didn't fulfill its potential at all. I like the books overall. They just get reeeaaalllyyy slllloooowwww at about book nine. I think it would be cool to do a Pathfinder conversion of the world. Maybe use the Sorcerer as a base for the Channeler Class. I have the Wheel of Time D20 RPG that was published in 2001, I just do not have it with me right now. I'm sort of conflicted on Robert Jordan. On the one hand: he had me through eight phonebook thick novels (stopped with The Path of Daggers). On the other hand, the last few that I read felt padded out with side plots and tertiary characters and were honestly sort of a chore. Ambition is great, but it would have been good to cut it down to six books or so and drop the redundant characters and boring side plots. And now it seems I'm ignoring my own advice and plowing into Steven Erikson's massive series. Oh, well. Adam Daigle wrote:
Thanks. Do you want about 30 pounds more of them? They dropped off two massive packages of the hideous things at my parents' house about a year ago. My mom threw away one but for some reason my dad insists on holding onto the other one.IMO, Jordan's 'problem' is that he's every bit as much of a world-builder as Tolkein was, but he tried to cram every single thing he had into the series. Tolkein also had a big map, but he didn't feel the need to take us to *every single place* on that map, and immerse us in the culture of each place. (And he saved the really detailed stuff for the Silmarillion.) I can't even blame the man. He was selling books, after all. I blame his editor for lacking the cajones to tell him to cut out all of the extraneous travelogue crap that was slowing things down. It was turning from the increasingly ironically named 'Wheel of Time' to 'Fyodor's Guide to Every Darned Idea I've Ever Had, by Robert Jordan.' It's like, oh, the Trollocs are amassing in force, and Myrdraal, and flying things! Oh wait, they're all gone. Now it's the Aiel sweeping across the lands! Oh, nevermind, that's done. The Children of Light are cleansing the nations of men with righteous fire! Hmm, they must have made a left turn at Albuqurque, 'cause they're gone, too. Oh, the Seanchan, who chose this exact moment to show up and try to conquer the continent! Thank goodness the Children of the Light, Aiel and Trollocs all simultaneously went on vacation, or else we'd really be screwed! Hey, I blew this horn that summoned a bunch of legendary heroes from beyond the grave. Where did they all go, by the way? They'd sure be useful, one would think... Oh, hey, wasn't there a Dark One, who'se *name* was dangerous to even say, back in book one, who was so close to breaking out of his prison that it was shaking the earth and giving Rand nightmares? Yeah, apparently he shot his wad and rolled over and went back to bed, 'cause we haven't heard from him lately. There's this cool race of really big dudes that sings to trees and, uh, something shiny, and I forgot what I was writing, so that character goes off to sing to a tree or something and I'll just ignore the existence of his entire species for the next six books... Deeply frustrating books, much like some of Stephen Kings Dark Tower ramblings, which only made sense if you were tripping as heavily as he (allegedly) was when he wrote them. I don't think that's an entirely fair summary. The focus has moved around a bit, sure, but the already-introduced factors are still there in the background and continue to play a role in events. Set wrote: IMO, Jordan's 'problem' is that he's every bit as much of a world-builder as Tolkein was, but he tried to cram every single thing he had into the series. Tolkein also had a big map, but he didn't feel the need to take us to *every single place* on that map, and immerse us in the culture of each place. (And he saved the really detailed stuff for the Silmarillion.) This I agree with. The side-journey to Far Madding in Book 9 was a blatant example of visiting a place just because he'd mentioned it a couple of times and it looked interesting on the map. Book 12 kicks off in Arad Doman, which was a country hitherto unvisited in the series. I'd have preferred it if he'd gotten his chance to do the other spin-off books and packed the extra stuff in there. NEW SPRING features a visit to the country of Kandor and the city of Chachin, which haven't appeared in the main series because there is no need for them. Quote: It's like, oh, the Trollocs are amassing in force, and Myrdraal, and flying things! Oh wait, they're all gone. Now it's the Aiel sweeping across the lands! Oh, nevermind, that's done. The Children of Light are cleansing the nations of men with righteous fire! Hmm, they must have made a left turn at Albuqurque, 'cause they're gone, too. Oh, the Seanchan, who chose this exact moment to show up and try to conquer the continent! Thank goodness the Children of the Light, Aiel and Trollocs all simultaneously went on vacation, or else we'd really be screwed! That's odd. All of these groups continue to play major roles in the series. The Seanchan and the Children of the Light fought a big (but offscreen) battle in Book 8, and we see the political infighting amongst the few survivors of the Children in Books 10 and 11. The Seanchan and the Aiel also fought one another in a massive battle at Malden in Book 11, and there have been skirmishes elsewhere. Finally, the Seanchan and Shadowspawn finally face one another down in Book 12. Quote: Hey, I blew this horn that summoned a bunch of legendary heroes from beyond the grave. Where did they all go, by the way? They'd sure be useful, one would think... Only Mat can blow it, and the Horn got taken from him by the Aes Sedai and locked in a vault below the White Tower in Book 3 ;-) He forgot to grab it when he escaped and it's still there. Characters worry about this from time to time in the later books. Quote:
The Dark One's servants, the Forsaken, have been very heavily active in the latter half of the series, with frequent POV chapters showing what they are up to. The Dark One itself has a low profile at the moment, but then that has always been the case. It only ever 'talks' in two of the books (6 and 7). Quote: There's this cool race of really big dudes that sings to trees and, uh, something shiny, and I forgot what I was writing, so that character goes off to sing to a tree or something and I'll just ignore the existence of his entire species for the next six books... The Ogier are a reclusive species with a low population who have very limited contact with humanity, and haven't played a huge role in events so far. Loial, however, has had some big moments in the latter half of the series, and the attitude of the Ogier community to the looming war was a subplot in Book 11. James Keegan wrote:
I appreciate the gesture, but I'll have to pass. One is enough for me. I bought the calendar because you had a painting in it, and it benefited a charity. When the year is over, I'll probably just cut out your piece. ericthecleric wrote: It's out now? Cool. I just did a search on Play.com; it's 672 pages, and it's the first of three books. Technically, it's the 12th of 14 books, but yes, it was originally supposed to be a 12 book series, but the final book ended up being too much for a single volume. That's much how the first book started as well. Originally, it was intended to be Eye of the World, The Great Hunt, and Dragon Reborn all in the same volume. Obviously it didn't turn out that way. I do wonder, though, how many books A Memory of Light would have been broken into had Jordan still be been the one writing most of it. My guess is five. There are certain authors that don't seem to be able to constrain themselves adequately... (Hello Neal Stephenson!) I invariably like their earlier work better than their later because it isn't until they are successful that their editor's seem to give them free reign. As other's have suggested these books could have been fantastic if condensed into 10 books. Spin off books such as New Spring could have filled in any gaps, but then again some authors probably just can't work that way. In a way I think its much similar to the success of Star Wars first trilogy versus the second trilogy. Sometimes absolute creative control doesn't result in the finest piece of 'art'. Yes. Quote:
Werthead, thanks for the review! I got my copy at a signing with Brandon and Harriet on Tuesday but haven't had a chance to sit down and start reading yet. This is a really well done review, and stokes the fires for me. I'm a bit disappointed out of the gate as Mat is my favorite character and I hope he's not completely ruined but we'll see. And as for the last lines about the cover... it stands out even in the long line of terribad covers as extra cringe-worthy. With so many amazing artists out there (at least one in this thread) what the hell have they been thinking for the last couple of decades? Dragnmoon wrote: I am a little more then Half Way through, so far loving the book, though I am really starting to Hate Rand.. Of course I have hated Rand for many books now, since at least Dumai's Wells in A Crown of Swords. Interestingly enough, I'm actually starting to like Rand again. I'm seeing a more realistic/human side to him, although that may just be me reading the book at 30 as opposed to 17 when I started the series. In many ways, I'm being re-introduced to the characters- I stopped reading around what..Winter's Heart? My wife is the only one who kept up with it, and I can't wait to give this book to her to find out her opinion. For those who have a hard time consuming these long and heavy books, I recommend an alternative. Get them on audio book. You can get them from iTunes or Audiobook.com for a decent price. You might be able to find them on CD, but 9-10 are all but impossible now. I listen to them on long drives, and enjoy them immensely. There are two different readers, one for the male parts, one for the female parts. Basically, if a section starts from a male point of view, it's read by Michael Kramer and the female versions are read by Kate Reading. They do a decent job. I find that I can focus a lot more on the story line and enjoy it a lot more than I did just reading them. Plus, it helps me stay awak on long trips. Yes, the audiobooks are awesome. I have a 30 min. drive to work and then 30 mins. back. So I can read a book with otherwise "wasted" time in about three weeks. Michael Kramer and Kate Reading do a great job adding emtion to the characters and they are the ones that plow through the slower parts for you. I'm half way through this book right now and it is great. I love what is going on inside the White Tower write now, which is a part of the story I wasn't looking forward to coming in. So far my favorite character has not shown up yet (Lan), but that's okay since I know where he is and what he's doing (which most likely will be slow and boring for about 300 more leagues). TheTwitching King wrote: Yes, the audiobooks are awesome. I have a 30 min. drive to work and then 30 mins. back. So I can read a book with otherwise "wasted" time in about three weeks. Michael Kramer and Kate Reading do a great job adding emtion to the characters and they are the ones that plow through the slower parts for you. I'm half way through this book right now and it is great. I love what is going on inside the White Tower write now, which is a part of the story I wasn't looking forward to coming in. So far my favorite character has not shown up yet (Lan), but that's okay since I know where he is and what he's doing (which most likely will be slow and boring for about 300 more leagues). Though I still bought the book, I did listen to it in Audio format. Got to love Auidble.com, I am a subsciber and for $22.95 a month I get 2 Audio books, so I got a $50 doller Audio book + another for only $22.95. I couldn't resist the temptation and picked it up at Costco for 16.99, and I'll chime in with the rest who say this one is really good. The change in authors is hardly noticeable - I thought the tone and characterization of the people was very well done and consistent, including the ones that are annoying (I'm looking at you, Cadsuane and the Wise Ones) - they remain true to how they've been portrayed in the past books. There were some missing characters, ones that showed up either very briefly or not at all, but there was plenty of action, and not just motion but actual MOVEMENT in the plot. Not every plotline gets resolved or advanced, but the focus on a couple of them is enough. Egwene's story arc was very strong, and Rand's inner journey is somewhat creepy as he does a couple of not-so-nice things, but it really takes you through what he's feeling with the literal weight of the world on his shoulders. We do get some Forsaken action, and we don't have to wait until the end of the book to get it! The thing I liked best, though, was something that reminded me of the 7th Harry Potter book - there were a fair number of callbacks and references to events that happened books and books ago - things getting foreshadowed and finally happening, events in the past getting paid off in the present, and even just characters recalling times gone by, events that happened before - kind of like in a D&D campaign when you stop and take a deep breath and ask "Okay, WHY are we on this adventure again?" They key figures look back to things that happened and think about how they got from there to here, and then where they should go next. In all, very good. I wouldn't put it at the tippy top of my list of favorites which would probably be 5, 4, and 2, in that order, but it's definitely good stuff. Jason Nelson wrote: The change in authors is hardly noticeable - I thought the tone and characterization of the people was very well done and consistent, including the ones that are annoying (I'm looking at you, Cadsuane and the Wise Ones) - they remain true to how they've been portrayed in the past books. I hate Cadsuane but I love the wise ones. The wise ones are so far my favorite mentor type characters in the entire series. Jason Nelson wrote: There were some missing characters, ones that showed up either very briefly or not at all, but there was plenty of action, and not just motion but actual MOVEMENT in the plot. Not every plotline gets resolved or advanced, but the focus on a couple of them is enough. Elayne, whom I'd consider a major character throughout the serries, pretty much just disappeared. Not that I missed her, but her warder was kind of fun. Jason Nelson wrote: Egwene's story arc was very strong, and Rand's inner journey is somewhat creepy as he does a couple of not-so-nice things, but it really takes you through what he's feeling with the literal weight of the world on his shoulders. I didn't care for Rand's story quite as much but Eqwene has certainly stepped up as a major character in this series. I can't really feel much sympathy for al'Tor, sure what he's been through has been pretty monstrous, but, for me he, stopped being a compelling character very early in the series when he went off on his own. Jason Nelson wrote: We do get some Forsaken action, and we don't have to wait until the end of the book to get it! The first of the Forsaken the was dealt with didn't make much sense: Spoiler:
1) Exactly why is it that every woman in these books is defeated by a good spanking? Semirhage is this evil master of torture but can't handle being humiliated? I didn't buy it, that entire scene was bad, as are most scenes with Cadsuane. 2)If Rand kills her with Befire why didn't those events actually disapear? Why does Min still have bruises from Rand's hand? Jason Nelson wrote: In all, very good. I wouldn't put it at the tippy top of my list of favorites which would probably be 5, 4, and 2, in that order, but it's definitely good stuff. I liked this book as well. Eqwene is really becomeing one of my favorite characters in the series and she has a really strong showing in this book. My favorite character, Nynaeve, even gets some good scenes in this one. I'm halfway through book 12, now. The chapter called Spoiler: looks ominous, as the named individual is an interesting character.
The Death of Tuon A question for anyone who's thought about it: Why does Spoiler: I'd suggest replying by spoiler.
Moridin occasionally help Rand? It's funny, Guy, but I loathe Nynaeve as a character. Spoiler:
Moridin/Ishamael wants to turn Rand to the Dark Side rather than kill him. Moridin has somehow gained access (probably via the Dark One) to memories of many previous turnings of the Wheel to the conflict between himself and the Dragon/Dragon Reborn, and in some of those turnings killed Lews Therin/Rand (although presumably was still defeated each time), and doesn't consider that to have been a victory. Moridin/Ishamael has thus concluded that the Shadow needs Rand alive and turned rather than dead in order to win finally and for all time. Werthead:
Spoiler:
I think that's likely but I also get the feeling that this relationship is something connected to the true source rather then them just being doomed to fight each other as opposite sides of a coin. Although the books seem to suggest that the dark one is in control of this wonderful power I don't think that this is the case. Also I suspect that the dark one is as bound to the fabric as everyone else and thus he's using his forsaken to weaken and shape Rand into something that'll be more malleable (not necessarily turn him) and Moridin/Ishamael is probably very much aware of that fact . . . but is powerless to stop or even save himself at this point. The thing about Nynaeve is she is the only true hero from the very start of the series. She doesn't have any warder training, she's not an Aes Sadai, but when she discovers the boys and her apprentice missing she jumps into action. She chases them down and vows to bring them back home. When she meets the Amyrlin seat she manages to over power her (ever so briefly) without any formal training. When she finally reaches the tower she completely skips over her novice training and goes straight for accepted (something that was unheard of). Later, when tricked by the black Ajah into ridding into a Seanchen ambush, it is only because of Nynaeve quick actions that they're not all captured. I could go on but you get the point. I'll admit she's not easy to love but IMO she's one of the best characters in the series. One more thing: she's also one of the few characters besides Rand that's gone toe to toe with a forsaken and come out on top. She's not for everyone but she always brings a smile to my face. The Wheel of Time was awful. Don't get me wrong, I hung in there until about Book 6 or 7 but by that time I was simply skipping entire chapters (and not missing a thing!). The actual concept, the macro-story, was excellent. It was the execution of the micro-tale that makes Robert Jordan a DOA author in this house. My problems with it are so numerous...where to begin? Many parts stretched credulity and kicked me out of the tale. He introduced so many characters, the book really should have had a character appendix so readers could keep track. And many of the characters died! I remember I almost threw one book away in frustration after one of the characters, which we'd spent hours reading at least a couple hundred pages on over the course of multiple books, gets killed. I was furious. Firstly because I had wasted hours reading about someone who just got killed and secondly because that character's "plot line" was completely irrelevant!!! His story added nothing to the tale! Nothing! It was absolutely pointless! Just thinking about it gets me riled up. Having said all that, I think the biggest drawback is he was way, way too wordy. Page after endless page of exposition. Many, many chapters could have been condensed to a paragraph. Example: Rand: "blah blah blah" *seven pages of exposition as we delve into the minds of everyone present to discern every last possible thoughts they have concerning blah* Eygwene: "yada yada" *seven more pages of exposition!* I used to wonder how any editor would let a writer get away with such shoddy prose UNTIL...I discovered that his editor was his wife! Everything made a lot more sense then. Some cover art ;) Click Me! Thank you for sharing Count Rugen, Jordan isn't for everyone but I'm not sure sure which character you're talking about. There are quite a few deaths in the books, but if you're talking about who I suspect you're talking about, you should know that a certain major character might be pulling a Gandulf the Grey in the next book. Guy Humual wrote:
It was the leader of some militant group. I can't remember now. But even as I read every scene where he was the main character I kept asked myself "why am I reading this? why do I even care about this guy?" Then when he was killed off I was furious---I was literally angry at Jordan---because the char DIDN'T have a point. I could have skipped every section involving him and it wouldn't have affected the story at all. It was almost as if Jordan was just tossing in throwaway characters in bunches of 2's or 3's for filler. Count_Rugen wrote:
Gotcha, I sort of liked him, but he represented the old guard and thus needed to die. Part of the Prophecies and all that. He was there more to show how the rest of the world viewed Aei Sadai more then anything else. Count_Rugen wrote: It was the leader of some militant group. I can't remember now. But even as I read every scene where he was the main character I kept asked myself "why am I reading this? why do I even care about this guy?" Then when he was killed off I was furious---I was literally angry at Jordan---because the char DIDN'T have a point. I could have skipped every section involving him and it wouldn't have affected the story at all. It was almost as if Jordan was just tossing in throwaway characters in bunches of 2's or 3's for filler. Spoiler:
Pedron Niall? He was an important character as he was quite canny and intelligent, and rumbled the fact that the Seanchan had returned and invaded Tarabon a long time before anyone else (even the readers). He was amassing the Whitecloaks to confront them when Eamon Valda arranged his death. Valda's incompetence then cost the Whitecloaks Amador and the Fortress of the Light. The storyline was there to show that Niall, although nominally 'bad', was an extremely effective and pragmatic military leader (one of the 'Great Captains' of the land) whose leadership and experience would have been vital in the wars against the Seanchan and the Shadow.
He and later Galad are also meant to show us that the Whitecloaks may have severe and fundamentalist beliefs, but are not inherently 'evil'. To me, if those were the points Jordan was trying to convey, he could have just done it in a paragraph instead of introducing a story arc completely tangenital to the main plot. I'm sure we could go back and forth with this, but I think it just boils down to a difference in taste. Some people like stories that follow numerous threads (like Wheel of Time), and some folk like stories that follow a core character or group (like Lord of the Rings). My issues with the first kind of story are numerous, but (and I'm deviating from the thread topic here) I just hate it when I pick up a book where we "follow the exploits of John Doe as he does X, Y, and Z" and after chapter 3 we flip to someone else for a couple chapters. Man I hate that! Hate! Count_Rugen wrote:
Ha! You mean the leader of the Whitecloaks? I remember that guy! Oh, man he was hilarious! He'd try to do something and it would totally fall apart and he'd go "Nyarr harr harr.. it's all going according to my plannnn!" I could not stop laughing at him. I don't remember getting to the point in the series where he Spoiler: but by that point I was dies Spoiler: that I didn't so sick of the books Spoiler:
care. Guy Humual wrote:
I love Nynaeve. I think she and Min are my favorite chars in the series, because she MOST of the time they are the most genuine. Which is why, in the story, those two are the only people that Rand actually *really* trusts, because they are not coming at him with secret agendas, trying to manipulate him, or treating him like a freakshow. With occasional exceptions, they treat him like he's Just A Guy - sure, he's the Dragon Reborn, but it wasn't so long ago that you were just a little farmboy in trouble, and don't think I've forgotten or will ever let YOU forget it. They also aren't perfect characters; they have flaws, fears, doubts, worries, but they don't get buried by them. They get punched in the face or scared out of their shoes, and they pull it together and dive right back in (see, Nynaeve vs. Moghedien in Tanchico, or Min vs. Semirhage in book 12). Heck, way back in book 1, Nynaeve, Village Wisdom, *tracks* a Warder and an Aes Sedai and sneaks up on them and won't take no for an answer when they tell her to beat it, when most people would curdle like milk if either of those two said "boo." Can Ny be annoying? Sure. But she's got it where it counts... :) So, yeah, count me in as a charter member of the Nynaeve fan club. Werthead wrote:
I'd agree with everything in your spoilerized reply. I liked Pedron Niall as a character. He and Geofram Bornhald both represented that side of the Whitecloaks well. Jason Nelson wrote: I love Nynaeve. I think she and Min are my favorite chars in the series, because she MOST of the time they are the most genuine. Which is why, in the story, those two are the only people that Rand actually *really* trusts, because they are not coming at him with secret agendas, trying to manipulate him, or treating him like a freakshow. With occasional exceptions, they treat him like he's Just A Guy - sure, he's the Dragon Reborn, but it wasn't so long ago that you were just a little farmboy in trouble, and don't think I've forgotten or will ever let YOU forget it. Nynaeve is indeed awesome. But I have embarrassing manlove for al'Lan Mandragoran "The Man Alone." Total badass. When the fricken Aiel think you're a badass, you are a badass. He is the Chuck Norris of RandLand. He's the reason Rand has the "Trained by a Master" advantage. He calls the Dragon Reborn "Sheepherder."
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