I sort of know what you mean about Cersei but she's supposed to actually not be that old--I get the impression she's maybe close to 30, and pampered enough to still be very sexy. Barring Danes what about Uma Thurman?

Yeah, I agree about the age thing. But Uma is too skinny. Someone would need to feed her. Then she'd be good.

MrFish wrote:

I sort of know what you mean about Cersei but she's supposed to actually not be that old--I get the impression she's maybe close to 30, and pampered enough to still be very sexy. Barring Danes what about Uma Thurman?

Yeah, I agree about the age thing. But Uma is too skinny. Someone would need to feed her. Then she'd be good.

Uma is awesome... but there can be only one actress for Cersei in my mind. With both the acting chops and almost the exact looks as described in the book:

Charlize.

Come on you guy's, we all know that good actors never get hired. Here's what the cast is really going to be.

Matt Damon as Jamie Lannister
Mark Wahlberg as Robb Stark
Leonardo Di'Caprio as Jon Snow
Steve Austin as The Mountain that Rides
Adam Sandler as Tyrion Lannister
The Rock as Eddard Stark
and Michell Rodrigez as Ayra Stark

And they change Arya from Ned's daughter to his mistress. And the final scene will be Ned's "execution," except that he ripps off the cast on his leg and he and Ayra fight thier way past a hundred gold cloaks and kill Joffrey. Then they have a love scene as the credits roll.

(Oh, and Uwe Boll would direct this montrosity.)

Kirth Gersen wrote:

MrFish wrote:

I sort of know what you mean about Cersei but she's supposed to actually not be that old--I get the impression she's maybe close to 30, and pampered enough to still be very sexy. Barring Danes what about Uma Thurman?

Yeah, I agree about the age thing. But Uma is too skinny. Someone would need to feed her. Then she'd be good.

Uma is awesome... but there can be only one actress for Cersei in my mind. With both the acting chops and almost the exact looks as described in the book:

Charlize.

Holy crap yes! She is perfect.

Come on you guy's, we all know that good actors never get hired. Here's what the cast is really going to be.

Matt Damon as Jamie Lannister
Mark Wahlberg as Robb Stark
Leonardo Di'Caprio as Jon Snow
Steve Austin as The Mountain that Rides
Adam Sandler as Tyrion Lannister
The Rock as Eddard Stark
and Michell Rodrigez as Ayra Stark

And they change Arya from Ned's daughter to his mistress. And the final scene will be Ned's "execution," except that he ripps off the cast on his leg and he and Ayra fight thier way past a hundred gold cloaks and kill Joffrey. Then they have a love scene as the credits roll.

(Oh, and Uwe Boll would direct this montrosity.)

That would be hilarious if it weren't depressingly true. And they'd make sure Sean Connery had a cameo somewhere. He pops up in movies the way "he" did on "Celebrity Jeopardy" on SNL.

In all seriousness, Sean Bean would have been/likely still is perfect for the Jaime Lannister role.

that is the only one that immediately comes to mind.

I don't know why, but I've always pictured Cersei as being played by Nicole Kidman and Jaime Lannister as Brad Pitt. Danny Devitto would play Tyrion and Ed Harris would be Tywin.

Emma Thompson for Catelyn Stark

Holy crap, that's SUCH a good suggestion! Now why didn't I think of that?

I'm hoping, crossing my fingers and hoping that HBO does this. No major movie, nothing like that. They'd butcher it. HBO did a good job with Rome, Band of Brothers. If they did it like Rome where it was expected to be say a season per book that would work, right?

And yeah...I can see Charlize. a little more as Cersei...but yeah I like Nicole better too. And Ed Harris as Tywin, he actually would look the part. I was startled and pleased to see how well he fit the role of the German officer in "Enemy at the Gates". It would be interesting to see Brad Pitt in such a role--starting out as golden boy but then ending up one handed, losing Cersei, wondering who he really is.

On a slightly other topic I noticed the speculation about Rhaegar being Jon's theoretical father. It's a good thought...it makes a lot of sense and I have to say that there's a lot of mystery surrounding it. The switcheroo with the two babies at the Wall also makes for some interesting speculation too...

So I'm wondering. Does anyone else think that ultimately the fate of Westeros lies in the hands of Jon and Daenerys?

Xaxor wrote:

A Feast for Crows had the most plot twists in my opinion, at least in the second half.

I will admit the last few chapters of the 4th book were pretty sweet. Alot of cliffhangers (Cersi's bit especially).

I discovered this series nearly a year ago (in fact it would be a year next week) read them all in a month's time. Feast for Crows was probably my favorite (followed very closely by the first one), which is an oddity as far as I can tell.

I'm probably going to be rereading them here in a few weeks.

Ugh. These actor recommendations are horrendous. I don't want to see any of these actors playing any of these characters. Brad Pitt as Jaimie? Danny Devito as Tyrion?! Charlize Theron as Sersi. No, no, no. No disrespect to any said actor above, but I want unknowns. I want actors who I've never seen before. Actors who are around the same age as the characters and who actually look like them. Actors that aren't sullied by fame, so when I watch them on screen I can see "Sersi" and not "Charlize Theron playing Sersi".

To the poster above me, who likes books one and four best: Yeah, that is a little weird. But not at all wrong. They're all great books, with very different feels, although book four reminds me of book one. They're both kind of setting things up for the the next few books. The only problem I have with book four is that it's really only half of it. Book five will be showing us what's going on with all the characters that weren't in the last one. That's not sitting well with me, becuase we'll have to wait for book six for the continuation of book fours threads. Still, condsidering how great the story is, it's a minor squibble.

Also, there's a new collection of GRRM's short stories out. It's called "Dream Songs" and it will be a two volume collection.

Ugh. These actor recommendations are horrendous. I don't want to see any of these actors playing any of these characters. Brad Pitt as Jaimie? Danny Devito as Tyrion?! Charlize Theron as Sersi. No, no, no. No disrespect to any said actor above, but I want unknowns. I want actors who I've never seen before. Actors who are around the same age as the characters and who actually look like them. Actors that aren't sullied by fame, so when I watch them on screen I can see "Sersi" and not "Charlize Theron playing Sersi".

To the poster above me, who likes books one and four best: Yeah, that is a little weird. But not at all wrong. They're all great books, with very different feels, although book four reminds me of book one. They're both kind of setting things up for the the next few books. The only problem I have with book four is that it's really only half of it. Book five will be showing us what's going on with all the characters that weren't in the last one. That's not sitting well with me, becuase we'll have to wait for book six for the continuation of book fours threads. Still, condsidering how great the story is, it's a minor squibble.

Also, there's a new collection of GRRM's short stories out. It's called "Dream Songs" and it will be a two volume collection.

I agree whole heartedly with your sentiment on the actors. While I enjoy many of the stated actors work, it would be refreshing to have new talent playing the roles. (I got the impression that some of those suggestions were tongue in cheek... at least i hope they were). Seeing relative unknowns; individuals who've not yet been in the forefront of leading roles either on television or film, but talented enough to carry the burden such roles would bestow, would be refreshing. There's a tremendous amount of talent out there, and this series could readily make (or break) the careers of the individuals cast.

As for the first and fourth book being similar; I've often pointed out to several of my friends that the fourth book is the start of the "second act" so to speak. The third book brings the story to a wonderful climax, but has no resolution. Book four is the breath before the next build. I do realize that A Feast for Crows only shows part of the going ons, but I'm overly satisfied not knowing how the other characters are doing at that point, because the story being told with the characters made available is fascinating and quite frankly engaging. But me stating that I liked the fourth book best is like stating which piece of pie I enjoyed the most, the last good piece I remember eating will be the one that I remembered liking the best. The books bear rereading, and I'm looking forward to it. I'm also anxiously awaiting "A Dance with Dragons" though, I do wish he'd finish...

But then again, don't we all.

You might have a look at my suggestions on the previous page actually for actors.

I agree with what you said about Feast for Crows...just that it seems like such a long wait for the next book.

I'm glad to see btw I'm not the only one a little sorry for Cersei. In a way she richly deserves what is coming to her but somehow it's an awfully sorry end she's looking forward to at the moment.

Something really unique for me regarding this series--it's the first book series I've read where I didn't picture any famous actors portraying the characters; Martin's descriptions and characterizations are the strongest I've ever seen beyond S. King. His heroes and villains and in-betweens stand for themselves.

Here here, for unknown younger actors playing the main parts.

Although, I think John Turturro would make an excellent Lord Varys, "the Spider".

I agree whole heartedly with your sentiment on the actors. While I enjoy many of the stated actors work, it would be refreshing to have new talent playing the roles. (I got the impression that some of those suggestions were tongue in cheek... at least i hope they were).

Um... yeah, to say the least. Because I'm not in charge of casting a movie version of these books in real life (nor is Mr. Fish, I presume), I sort of figured there was little point in imagining unknown actors I've never seen before; sort of ends the game right there.

And btw...when does the next book come out, does anyone know?

when its done.

which is pretty much the man himself said on his website.

a year ago he post to say he wan't gonna post again until it was complete but decided that a year with no info was to long.

go to www.georgemartin.com for further news, sample chapters et.al

One of the issues nobody seems to address is that these books take place over a few years (the seasons barely change due to the long summers/winters). No big deal for most characters, but when casting younger characters (even Jon Snow) they have to appear to age both physically and emotionally. Charlie Cox looks like a great Snow, but I picture him coming across as a rash youth at the beginning, which is totally different from the man he becomes by the end.

One more thing -

Jonah Hill as Samwell (if he can pull off a serious role)
Paul Giamatti as Lord Varys (he plays a good 'funny/sinister')
That guy that played the human torch as Bronn maybe?

Also, is it me or wouldn't it be great to watch Tywin and Stannis in a game of chess? At least until one of them cut the other's head off

I saw on amazon a couple of days ago that the new "Song of Ice and Fire" book has a release date of Sept. 30th.

I saw on amazon a couple of days ago that the new "Song of Ice and Fire" book has a release date of Sept. 30th.

Amazon is notorious for making up release dates and has, in fact, been guilty of this more than a few times in this series as it's been delayed. The best source for information is Martin's website.

The dude who plays Sawyer on Lost would do a decent job at Jaime Lannister, but it would be a bit of a typecast.

I think Dance of Dragons comes out soon, doesn't it?

And a good "substitute" for GRRM is J. Gregory Keyes, especially his Kingdoms of Thorn and Bone series. It's like methodone for GRRM.

I think Dance of Dragons comes out soon, doesn't it?

I'm reasonably certain (from following GRRM's blog) that it hasn't been finished.

My 8-year-old devoured the 1st Hedge Knight comic book. He actually rates all other comic books using 'Hedge Knight' as the goal. "Artemis Fowl? Not bad. But it's no 'Hedge Knight'." heheh.

Any other recommended comic books ... errr... I mean 'graphic novels'?

Just checked Amazon.com and A Dance with Dragons comes out 9/30/2008.

:-)

Just checked Amazon.com and A Dance with Dragons comes out 9/30/2008.

:-)

George hasn't finished the book and is currently doing the convention circuit in Spain..my guess says he will bring it out in March which would make it about 3 years overdue..

He is about the only author who I would put up with this stuff...his writting is just that good.

There are two main reasons for the delay:

1) Its not all his fault ... his publishers keep giving him other editing projects such as is Wild Cards, and the tribute to Jack Vance.

2) He's been having trouble writing certain parts - I would much rather have along delay and get it right rather than compromise just to get a book out ...... plus, when you are that good (i.e. sell that many books) you get aLOT of leeway from your publisher.

I say that the wait will definitely be worth it.

I would wait until the sun went nova for this next installment if I had to.

I might not be HAPPY about it, but .....

I totally agree with you Patrick!

I dunno. It's kind of bush league to make fans wait and wait and wait for the next installment. Especially after the Robert Jordan fiasco. Glad I never started that series.

Also, GRRM doesn't have filler, so it's not like he has to come up with new stuff and twists and turns. He seems to know what's going on. He just needs to buckle down and do it.

I dunno. It's kind of bush league to make fans wait and wait and wait for the next installment. Especially after the Robert Jordan fiasco. Glad I never started that series.

Also, GRRM doesn't have filler, so it's not like he has to come up with new stuff and twists and turns. He seems to know what's going on. He just needs to buckle down and do it.

I disagree. I think it's bush league to rush the next installment. I'm sure he could have hammered it out by now if there was less concern for how it came out.

I love the Song of Ice and Fire series, but the ever-increasing delays bother and worry me. I'm less inclined to invest my interest in them because I fear that the series will now never be finished, especially since the story is still opening more new threads than it is closing.

I'm particularly annoyed that the previous book was split in half with the promise that the next one was mostly written because of the split, and yet it is late again.

At this point the delays have become so huge that I can't remember exactly what was going on in the last book, let alone two books ago (which is the material that is actually relevant to the next book, again due to the split).

If someone asked me to recommend these books right now, I'd say that the books are so far perhaps the best fantasy series I've ever read, but hold off on buying them until they actually get written, or you may be disappointed.

I think it's bush league to rush the next installment.

I'll take a rushed conclusion over the "we're never going to see this finished" that we have now.

Steerpike7 wrote:

I think it's bush league to rush the next installment.

I'll take a rushed conclusion over the "we're never going to see this finished" that we have now.

I wouldn't. I'd rather wait and see it finished as it should be then leave something hanging.

I don't know if you play computer games at all, but Knights of the Old Republic 2 is a good example of what can go wrong when you are forced to finish something before you're ready. The game was rushed out by LucasArts (for a before-Christmas release) before the game developer had time to truly finish the ending, and it was noticed by all who played it. The game was pretty good, right up until the ending, and that ending turned off a lot of people and/or had them complaining on forums.

I wouldn't. I'd rather wait and see it finished as it should be than leave something hanging.

Lotta people shared that opinion with the last two installments of Stephen King's "Dark Tower" series (well, except for the Thunderclap sequences, which freakin' RULED). The thing is, the ol' Kingmeister was afraid he'd kick off before he finished, at the rate he was going. (RIP Robert Jordan.) And as much as it hurts me to say so, George RR won't live forever, either.

"Ice and Fire" deserves ending installments that are every bit as good as the first one. Only Martin himself knows how much there is to go. And know one at all knows how much longer he has to go. Seemingly, unlike King, he's not in any big hurry to finish; I hope that's good news... for Mr. Martin's sake especially, but also for his readers.

Sorry, that was more depressing than I meant it to be, but the "Dark Tower" parallel struck me as apt.

I'll take a rushed conclusion over the "we're never going to see this finished" that we have now.

Except that we don't have that.

DMFTodd wrote:

Steerpike7 wrote:

I think it's bush league to rush the next installment.

I'll take a rushed conclusion over the "we're never going to see this finished" that we have now.

I wouldn't. I'd rather wait and see it finished as it should be then leave something hanging.

I don't know if you play computer games at all, but Knights of the Old Republic 2 is a good example of what can go wrong when you are forced to finish something before you're ready. The game was rushed out by LucasArts (for a before-Christmas release) before the game developer had time to truly finish the ending, and it was noticed by all who played it. The game was pretty good, right up until the ending, and that ending turned off a lot of people and/or had them complaining on forums.

Grrr..Kotor 2...grr...

stupid ending grrr...

lots of data files in game showing what might have been gr...

stupid Lucas arts grrr..

Can I get a review or recommendation for The Hedge Knight? Someone handed me an issue of the comic and it looked pretty good, but I can't find a copy of the novel anywhere. Is is worth tracking down and why?

I'd like to try this one and see if I like Martin's work before I try the epic...

Can I get a review or recommendation for The Hedge Knight? Someone handed me an issue of the comic and it looked pretty good, but I can't find a copy of the novel anywhere. Is is worth tracking down and why?

I'd like to try this one and see if I like Martin's work before I try the epic...

Your difficulty may be in part because "The Hedge Knight" is a novella, not a novel. It was published in the Silverberg-edited Legends in 1998.

As far as being worth tracking down, it was nominated for a World Fantasy Award, and placed third in the novella category of the Locus Poll. See ISFDB.

Hope that helps.

rclifton wrote:

Can I get a review or recommendation for The Hedge Knight? Someone handed me an issue of the comic and it looked pretty good, but I can't find a copy of the novel anywhere. Is is worth tracking down and why?

I'd like to try this one and see if I like Martin's work before I try the epic...

Your difficulty may be in part because "The Hedge Knight" is a novella, not a novel. It was published in the Silverberg-edited Legends in 1998.

As far as being worth tracking down, it was nominated for a World Fantasy Award, and placed third in the novella category of the Locus Poll. See ISFDB.

Hope that helps.

Aha! It does indeed. Thanks!

Fire and Ice Series

The dialogue is amazing. The multiple viewpoints of the same event schtick is very creative and exceptionally well done.

Still, the series leaves me flat. I read the first book, A Game of Thrones with great interest, but the thing that bothered me was that none of his characters serve as a point of view that I want to view the world through.

The book is written from a secular humanist perspective. Everyone is grey. There is no good. There is no evil. There is only the flesh. If I were reading the Hellraiser series, that would be fine. In fantasy I want larger than life heroes and truly evil villains.

Yes, yes. The real world is full of shades of gray. I read to enjoy and to escape for a short period into a created world. If I want to hear about shades of gray I will watch a reality show or watch Court TV.

The characters do evolve, but in yucky, unrealistic ways. (I've led folks into a hail of bullets, and just because you are in an aweful, life threatening environment does not mean that you automatically turn "to the dark side.")

By the bye, having met with George and sat on a panel with him, the reason that his characters are the way they are is because that is the world view that George R. R. Martin has. He is not an evil person, but he is definitely a secular humanist.

Here are some particularily odious examples of George poking the reader in the eye.

And on, and on, and on ...

I bought and read through the Feast of Crows.

I can't read any more.

In service,

Rich

And they change Arya from Ned's daughter to his mistress. And the final scene will be Ned's "execution," except that he ripps off the cast on his leg and he and Ayra fight thier way past a hundred gold cloaks and kill Joffrey. Then they have a love scene as the credits roll.

(Oh, and Uwe Boll would direct this montrosity.)

Actually, I would have liked that a lot better than everyone of them become sociopaths.

But, hey, that is just me.

In service,

Rich

DrGames:

I consider virtually every point you raise a plus and a reason to like the series a great deal :)

DrGames:

I consider virtually every point you raise a plus and a reason to like the series a great deal :)

Ditto. These are some of my favorite fantasy books.

As such I really wish he would finish the next book. I'll have to do a re-read to catch up since it has been so long.

I'm actually in the middle of a series re-read ( currently in A Clash of Kings) in the hope that A Dance with Dragons will come out sometime before 2010. I have to say his prose is as good as I remember.

I have to add my weight to the 'love the style' column. Fantasy literature is choked with Good vs. Evil contests where everyone is on their proper side and there is no grey. It is refreshing to read a series that portrays its protagonists as real people with real reactions to issues. If that is sociopathic, then so is most of human history.

Some friends and I were recently discussing books and this series came up. A little bit of a debate came up and I'd like to see if anyone agrees with my thoughts on some things that may be revealed.

Sorry I don't have the books in front of me, so I may be off on the name spellings. Most of my books are loaned out, so I'm going from what I remember.

If any of this comes to fruition, I can't wait to see what happens.

Just wanted to add another to the list of GRRM fans!

I have to wonder though, does anyone else here worry just a little bit that George may in fact, never finish the series?

I know books don't get written overnight, but given that he's planning .. 3? ... more books before completion I have to wonder; the guy isn't exactly a picture of health and virility.

I have to wonder though, does anyone else here worry just a little bit that George may in fact, never finish the series? I know books don't get written overnight, but given that he's planning .. 3? ... more books before completion I have to wonder; the guy isn't exactly a picture of health and virility.

I do indeed. In fact, I posted something to that effect somewhere up-thread, IIRC.

I got sold on these books by catching a glance of the Jon Snow and the Night's Watch minis. That's all it took to send me on a mission to buy the first four books. Great, inspiring work!!