So, this will be the Discussion Thread for my Kingmaker game.

Starting players are:
SeekerOfShadowlight
All DMs Are Evil
Dax Thura
Hogarth
Bryan
Kevin Mack and
Justin Sluder.

Memento Mori is an alternate for now.

I don't have a starting date for now, but in the next week or so is possible, I think, if you get your characters ready by then.

I don't expect to much of a background for your character, but a bit it should be. Like 3 lines or so. More is better, but please, no 15 pages full of it. Your characters are beginners. ;)

As for character generation: let's try the 'Dice Pool'-Method, as described in the Core rules. 28d6 to be assigned on the 6 abilities, minimum of 3d6 per ability.
Core and APG classes are in, as well as two traits (from the Character Traits Web Enhancement and the Kingmaker Player's Guide) per PC.

Any questions thus far? ;)

Yay, a thread I can post in!

I'm thinking of either:
a) a melee alchemist, or
b) a sorcerer, or
c) an oracle, or
d) a bard (maybe)

Alright, let's see ... not really sure yet, but the following are what I was considering:

1) a witch
2) melee type (fighter or barbarian or combo of both)
3) ranger
4) also considering oracle

Gonna see what I roll before I go into what I'm gonna play

6d6 ⇒ (6, 1, 4, 3, 3, 6) = 23 = 16
6d6 ⇒ (6, 1, 6, 5, 1, 2) = 21 = 17
5d6 ⇒ (1, 6, 1, 3, 6) = 17 = 15
4d6 ⇒ (5, 4, 2, 1) = 12 = 11
4d6 ⇒ (6, 6, 4, 1) = 17 = 16
3d6 ⇒ (1, 5, 3) = 9 = 9

Very nice indeed. Right of the top of my head I'm thinking Monk, Cleric, or Paladin. I've not played any of these classes much. This might be a good time to give one a go. Gotta go find more info on the AP.

6d6 ⇒ (6, 6, 2, 6, 1, 3) = 24
5d6 ⇒ (4, 2, 1, 1, 5) = 13
5d6 ⇒ (3, 5, 3, 5, 3) = 19
4d6 ⇒ (3, 2, 6, 5) = 16
4d6 ⇒ (6, 4, 2, 3) = 15
4d6 ⇒ (5, 6, 1, 2) = 14

Humm I have never used this method but ummm 24 seems a bit much, does it max out at 18 or what?

Oh, I have a question: would it be possible to use the "level 0" class rules from the 3.0 DMG (like I used with my character Finn)? I.e. could I start as a level 0/0 barbarian/alchemist, for instance?

Humm I have never used this method but ummm 24 seems a bit much, does it max out at 18 or what?

I think you take the best 3 and drop the rest.

EDIT: Yes, the book says to take the "three highest" results.

ah good I was a bit worried there.

So I got
18,11,13,14,13,13

9d6 ⇒ (5, 2, 6, 6, 2, 4, 5, 4, 4) = 38
5d6 ⇒ (6, 6, 2, 3, 6) = 23
4d6 ⇒ (2, 6, 6, 2) = 16
4d6 ⇒ (1, 6, 2, 6) = 15
3d6 ⇒ (3, 3, 1) = 7
3d6 ⇒ (3, 2, 4) = 9

17, 18, 14, 14, 7, 9 -- interesting!

5d6 ⇒ (6, 5, 4, 2, 5) = 22 = 16
5d6 ⇒ (5, 6, 6, 4, 6) = 27 = 18
5d6 ⇒ (6, 2, 5, 3, 3) = 19 = 14
5d6 ⇒ (3, 4, 5, 5, 1) = 18 = 14
5d6 ⇒ (2, 3, 3, 4, 4) = 16 = 11
3d6 ⇒ (3, 6, 3) = 12 = 12

18, 16, 14, 14, 12, 11

Hogarth: Never used that ruleset, can you point me to a place to find it?

Any chance you wanna begin with 8 instead of 7 Sothal? =P

I'm not having too much fun in my other kingmaker pbp as the dm has a method of moving combat along by completely narrating it and I'm thinking I'm going to be forced to drop out.

Anyway, I completely understand if you're more comfortable with just 7, I just figured I'd throw that out there.

Ah, get in, make a PC. We will see how it works out.

Aww Sothal!

You=Sweetheart

Hogarth: Never used that ruleset, can you point me to a place to find it?

It's not Open Content (it's on page 40 of the 3E DMG), but the gist of it is that your level 1 character gets half the benefit from each of two classes (half skill points, half hit points, half base saves, etc.). Then at level 2, you would get the other half of the benefits, becoming a full level 1/1 character. They have a table listing exactly which abilities you would get, but it would have to be adapted to PFRPG at any rate.

For example, a PFRPG level 0/0 alchemist/barbarian might look like:

• Starting HP: 10 (8/2 + 12/2)
  
• Starting skill points: 4 (4/2 + 4/2)
  
• Starting saves: Fort +2, Ref +1, Will +0 (half of +2/+0/+0 and half of +2/+2/+0)
  
• BAB: +0 (1/2 + 0/2)
  
• Starting rounds of rage: 0, plus any bonus for having a high Con (? based on how they handle spellcasting)
  
• Extracts per day: 0 1st-level extracts, plus any bonus for having a high Int (similar to how a 4th level paladin's or ranger's spellcasting works)
  
• 1d6 bombs, usable 0+Int modifier times per day
  
• +5' fast movement

Someone has posted something similar on this Wiki.

Here's another person's take on it. (PDF)

Sothal I umm updated it when he made fine. I can recreate it including the new classes if ya like.

edit: ah ninjaed

Still working on a class concept, with my rolls most liky some type of caster, wizard,witch, sorcerer or the like

I am happy to fill in the gaps, so I will wait to see what we are missing before I choose.

I'll then roll based on that, if that is okay with everyone, although a Druid seems fun.

let's give this a try.

5d6 ⇒ (1, 3, 5, 4, 5) = 18
5d6 ⇒ (5, 4, 6, 5, 2) = 22
5d6 ⇒ (5, 1, 4, 1, 3) = 14
5d6 ⇒ (4, 6, 6, 4, 4) = 24
4d6 ⇒ (6, 4, 4, 1) = 15
4d6 ⇒ (4, 6, 5, 6) = 21

14,16,12,16,14,17...Not too shabby at all.

I plan on using the character i've already made, a human rouge. I'll change his stats to reflect these roles

Here we are.

Ya know I may just reuse a pc from a pbp now dead, eleven barbarian I always liked him and hated to see the game fold. With the stats I rolled he gained more str loose 1 point of dex and gains everywhere else.

I'm still feeling a bit undecisive, so I'm waiting for a few more folks to decide. We've got a human rogue and elven barbarian so far, then.

I prob wont play blackleaf, I just do not like reusing pc's even ones I like.

I've settled on an elven ranger/wizard/arcane archer.

DM Sothal wrote:

Hogarth: Never used that ruleset, can you point me to a place to find it?

It's not Open Content (it's on page 40 of the 3E DMG), but the gist of it is that your level 1 character gets half the benefit from each of two classes (half skill points, half hit points, half base saves, etc.). Then at level 2, you would get the other half of the benefits, becoming a full level 1/1 character. They have a table listing exactly which abilities you would get, but it would have to be adapted to PFRPG at any rate.

For example, a PFRPG level 0/0 alchemist/barbarian might look like:

• Starting HP: 10 (8/2 + 12/2)
  
• Starting skill points: 4 (4/2 + 4/2)
  
• Starting saves: Fort +2, Ref +1, Will +0 (half of +2/+0/+0 and half of +2/+2/+0)
  
• BAB: +0 (1/2 + 0/2)
  
• Starting rounds of rage: 0, plus any bonus for having a high Con (? based on how they handle spellcasting)
  
• Extracts per day: 0 1st-level extracts, plus any bonus for having a high Int (similar to how a 4th level paladin's or ranger's spellcasting works)
  
• 1d6 bombs, usable 0+Int modifier times per day
  
• +5' fast movement

Someone has posted something similar on this Wiki.

Here's another person's take on it. (PDF)

Hogarth: I doubt that I have a problem with you multiclassing at first level, but I'm not quite sure how to do that.

Ok, heeeere's Queslin!

Still gotta finish up a few things.
How are we determining starting money?

Ok, heeeere's Queslin!

Still gotta finish up a few things.
How are we determining starting money?

Good question!

Starting money: 250gp for all.

hogarth wrote:

DM Sothal wrote:

Hogarth: Never used that ruleset, can you point me to a place to find it?

It's not Open Content (it's on page 40 of the 3E DMG), but the gist of it is that your level 1 character gets half the benefit from each of two classes (half skill points, half hit points, half base saves, etc.). Then at level 2, you would get the other half of the benefits, becoming a full level 1/1 character. They have a table listing exactly which abilities you would get, but it would have to be adapted to PFRPG at any rate.

For example, a PFRPG level 0/0 alchemist/barbarian might look like:

• Starting HP: 10 (8/2 + 12/2)
  
• Starting skill points: 4 (4/2 + 4/2)
  
• Starting saves: Fort +2, Ref +1, Will +0 (half of +2/+0/+0 and half of +2/+2/+0)
  
• BAB: +0 (1/2 + 0/2)
  
• Starting rounds of rage: 0, plus any bonus for having a high Con (? based on how they handle spellcasting)
  
• Extracts per day: 0 1st-level extracts, plus any bonus for having a high Int (similar to how a 4th level paladin's or ranger's spellcasting works)
  
• 1d6 bombs, usable 0+Int modifier times per day
  
• +5' fast movement

Someone has posted something similar on this Wiki.

Here's another person's take on it. (PDF)

Hogarth: I doubt that I have a problem with you multiclassing at first level, but I'm not quite sure how to do that.

Looks like you get half of max HP for both classes, how many would you get at second level?
0+Con rounds of rage? I'd have guessed it at 2+
Everything else looks good.

How it used to work was you picked a class as "prime" ya got that classes HP and skill points at level one, then when ya got to level 2 ya used the other classes HP and skill points.

So at level "1" is the only oddity really, by the time ya got to level 2 ya would be level 1 in both classes and look just like anyone else who took 1 level in each

for instance take his barb/ alchemist ya would pick one as "prime" and gain it's hp/bab for level "1"

Then half each classes saves so +1 fort and +1 fort, +1 reflex{ at level 2 ya would gain the other half

As for what ability ya would gain, well half from each class. The barb would gain rage{half} but no fast move, I am unsure on alchemist but spellcasters just gain 0 spells and only have spells for high scores

So he would have 0 extracts and only have of the ablitys they start with, but which half not really sure on that.

Could someone give a quick summary on what classes everyone else is doing? I was thinking Gnome alchemist.

5d6 ⇒ (5, 5, 6, 6, 6) = 28

5d6 ⇒ (6, 5, 6, 5, 5) = 27

5d6 ⇒ (4, 1, 6, 4, 5) = 20

5d6 ⇒ (3, 1, 3, 6, 3) = 16

4d6 ⇒ (1, 4, 5, 2) = 12

4d6 ⇒ (3, 5, 5, 2) = 15

Okay so 18, 17, 15, 12, 11 and 13

How it used to work was you picked a class as "prime" ya got that classes HP and skill points at level one, then when ya got to level 2 ya used the other classes HP and skill points.

So at level "1" is the only oddity really, by the time ya got to level 2 ya would be level 1 in both classes and look just like anyone else who took 1 level in each

for instance take his barb/ alchemist ya would pick one as "prime" and gain it's hp/bab for level "1"

That makes sense.

At any rate, by the time you hit level 2, everything makes sense; you should have exactly the skill points, hit points, BAB, class features, etc. of a 1/1 level character.

If you'll allow it, I'll make a character based on it (barbarian "prime" and alchemist "secondary") and you can check it over. Deal?

Kevin: I'm thinking of a barbarian/alchemist melee fighter. If you want to be an alchemist (presumably of the bomb-throwing variety), the more the merrier!

seekerofshadowlight wrote:

How it used to work was you picked a class as "prime" ya got that classes HP and skill points at level one, then when ya got to level 2 ya used the other classes HP and skill points.

So at level "1" is the only oddity really, by the time ya got to level 2 ya would be level 1 in both classes and look just like anyone else who took 1 level in each

for instance take his barb/ alchemist ya would pick one as "prime" and gain it's hp/bab for level "1"

That makes sense.

At any rate, by the time you hit level 2, everything makes sense; you should have exactly the skill points, hit points, BAB, class features, etc. of a 1/1 level character.

If you'll allow it, I'll make a character based on it (barbarian "prime" and alchemist "secondary") and you can check it over. Deal?

Kevin: I'm thinking of a barbarian/alchemist melee fighter. If you want to be an alchemist (presumably of the bomb-throwing variety), the more the merrier!

Ok, can live with that.

One other thing: one free Outfit for every PC. Most likely: Explorer's Outfit, but everything else is fine too.

Here's my first cut at Big Ern, the moonshine-brewin', hard-fightin', short-tempered alchemist.

Kevin -- if you're interested in making an alchemist too, maybe Big Ern could be his apprentice.

Ok here's my start. Branomonrik Assia,Elven wizard at your service.

I liked my rolls until I saw Memento Mori's. Now I'm a burning ball of jealousy.

I liked my rolls until I saw Memento Mori's. Now I'm a burning ball of jealousy.

As always, when rolling stats is involved. ;)

So, we got:
Matius Drake, human Rogue (Memento Mori)
Queslin, elf Ranger (Dax Thura)
Big Ern, human Barbarian/Alchemist (hogarth)
Branomonrik Assia, elf Wizard (SeekerofShadowlight)

Missing:
Bryan, Kevin Mack, AllDMsAreEvil and Justin Sluder (I think he needs a link to this thread).

I'm gonna go over your chars with PCGen, where possible, so if I find some issues, I'm gonna post 'em here.

Okay One Gnome alchemist to order (still to do appearence and background)

So, starting at the top:

Matius Drake:
Your Disable Device should be at +8 and you have a situational +1 on Perception to notice traps.
You are human, so you got a +2 to one ability to spend.
Also, what bonus do you choose for your Favored Class?
Could you point out where your traits are from?
Checking your gear, it seems way too much, even accounting for your Brigand-Trait. PCGen says 554.52gp expended.

Let's have a look at Queslin:
Strange enough, most of your Skills are one point off... Craft (Bows), Perception and Knowledge (Geography) as well as Survival are right though.
Somehow PCGen won't let me select Giant as one of your bonus languages, probably not on the Elf-list. What else will be bonus language?
Please point out the source of your traits too.
Looks like you only spent 43,5gp of your 250, but you probably want to spend some more money on mundane gear, right?
AC is 17, not 14; Will should be +0 not +2, rest seems good.

Next up: Big Ern:
I miss Bonus languages, Favored Class selection, Traits, and you got some money left.
How are class skills handled with multiclass-1st-level-characters? I'm not too sure there's everything right there...
Everything else seems pretty okay.

Rest will be looked over later.

So far we have:

Majet Greenhill (Kevin Mack) Gnome Alchemist
Queslin (Dax Thura) Elven Ranger, will go Wizard Arcane Archer
Branomonrik Assia (seekerofshadowlight) Elven Wizard
Big Ern (hogarth) Human Barbarian/Alchemist
Matius Drake (Memento Mori) Human Rogue

So no healer (unless alchemists can heal) and no front line unless Big Urn is going to go down that route).

Did I miss anyone?

Bryan and Justin Sluder are open. Bryan rolled his stats above, and Justin hasn't found the thread I think.

So far we have:

Majet Greenhill (Kevin Mack) Gnome Alchemist
Queslin (Dax Thura) Elven Ranger, will go Wizard Arcane Archer
Branomonrik Assia (seekerofshadowlight) Elven Wizard
Big Ern (hogarth) Human Barbarian/Alchemist
Matius Drake (Memento Mori) Human Rogue

So no healer (unless alchemists can heal) and no front line unless Big Urn is going to go down that route).

Did I miss anyone?

That sounds right. You have a preference between divine and front line, ADMaE? I was actually leaning front-line (barb, ftr, or ranger), but would also be willing to try an oracle.

Next up: Big Ern:
I miss Bonus languages, Favored Class selection, Traits, and you got some money left.
How are class skills handled with multiclass-1st-level-characters? I'm not too sure there's everything right there...

Did you mention how much money we start with? Average gold?

I was using every skill as a class skill, but maybe I'll just stick with barbarian class skills for now. Surprisingly, alchemist and barbarian class skills are pretty similar!

Big Ern's modus operandi is going to be to run up and hit people (and maybe bite them, if he learns to make a Feral Mutagen some day).

I am toying with a Paladin called Michael (based on John Travoltas character in the film of the same name) or a Druid at the moment, (or a bard, or a mage or a barbarian............)

Paladin is winning, but stats can make the difference, so the rolls will decide it.

Guard pointed out that it might actually be a good idea to read the players guide, so I am doing that now, in between serving customers and sipping tea.

Hogarth / Big Ern: 250gp for everyone. One free Outfit(Explorer) per PC.

Some things about how I intend to run the game:

Please use third person speech, present tense. Like:
'Guard watches over the rear of the group, speaking to Ardanto without looking over his shoulder: "blahbla blah blahblahblah... Blah?"'

Combat:
I'm going to use group-initiative, meaning: One of you (whoever does it first, or however you like to decide that) rolls Initiative for the whole group of PC's. You all act at the same time (one INIT-value). Same for enemies.

I'm going to roll AoO's for your PC's to save us on waiting times.

Most skills will be rolled by yourself, save for the occasional Perception check or so.

That should be about it...

Here goes, fingers crossed, touch wood, find a penny on the floor and a hundred more good luck charms, it is time to roll my dice.

5d6 ⇒ (6, 6, 3, 2, 1) = 18 = 15
5d6 ⇒ (5, 4, 5, 4, 5) = 23 = 15
5d6 ⇒ (2, 6, 2, 3, 1) = 14 = 11
5d6 ⇒ (1, 3, 1, 5, 5) = 15 = 13
4d6 ⇒ (5, 1, 2, 6) = 14 = 13
4d6 ⇒ (6, 5, 3, 5) = 19 = 16

Total modifier +9.

Looks like a nice, well-rounded set of rolls.

I finished up Big Ern, so he should be ready to roll.

Kevin, any possibility that Big Ern can be Majet's alchemical apprentice? Maybe they met in the woods or something like that.

I think I like this method.

There total bonuses so far are:

+14, +12, +10, +10, +9, +9, +8

So two awesome characters with no weaknesses and 4 heroes.

If you were using point buy, the +14 rolls would cost you 44 points!. My respectable +9 is a huge 31 point buy.

Yeah, looking at that now, I think I should have gone with less dice... But now it's too late for that, I spare you all the trouble of rolling again.

Yeah, they aren't balanced against each other, but that's the fate of rolling stats.

Anyone really got a problem with that? If so, please say so. Dax has said so, but I think that was more joking than a real complaint, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Yeah, looking at that now, I think I should have gone with less dice... But now it's too late for that, I spare you all the trouble of rolling again.

Yeah, they aren't balanced against each other, but that's the fate of rolling stats.

Anyone really got a problem with that? If so, please say so. Dax has said so, but I think that was more joking than a real complaint, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

No problem from me, I am happy with my rolls and I am not a great believer in all characters being born equal.

It has given me some interesting problems, like 5 odd attributes, meaning my +1 attribute at a level is going to be interesting.

The main thing is if you are happy with a lot of high attributes and only 2 people having attributes lower than 10.