Joss has come up with a new series for Fox called Dollhouse. Does anybody have anymore info on this new show. Read that it was a fantasy/drama starring Elisa Doscu?(anyway, Faith from Buffy).

Maybe Fox won't mess this one up.

Have you read All My Sins Remembered by Joe Haldeman?

Joss has come up with a new series for Fox called Dollhouse. Does anybody have anymore info on this new show. Read that it was a fantasy/drama starring Elisa Doscu?(anyway, Faith from Buffy).

Maybe Fox won't mess this one up.

But here's some info pages about the show.

Casting List: A nice list of characters they are casting for.

A Dollhouse blog

A Dollhouse news site

Have you read All My Sins Remembered by Joe Haldeman?

brent norton wrote:

Joss has come up with a new series for Fox called Dollhouse. Does anybody have anymore info on this new show. Read that it was a fantasy/drama starring Elisa Doscu?(anyway, Faith from Buffy).

Maybe Fox won't mess this one up.

Joss Whedon has been optimistic and said there's all new people at Fox now. And didn't the guy that canceled Firefly get fired.

But here's some info pages about the show.

Casting List: A nice list of characters they are casting for.

A Dollhouse blog

A Dollhouse news site

Thought the first episode was really good. Also nice to see "Fred" was in it too.

Have you read All My Sins Remembered by Joe Haldeman?

Nope. what's it like?

Otto McGavin is peaceful and idealistic by nature, an Anglo-Buddhist, who seeks employment with the Confederacion because he believes in it and its mission to protect the rights of humans and nonhumans. The only problem is that the Confederacion needs him as a Prime Operator for its secret service, the TBII, and the TBII wants Otto as a spy, a thief and an assassin. It's not, of course, a problem for the Confederacion, which simply uses immersion therapy and hypnosis for Otto's training, and then sends him out in deep cover on a variety of dangerous missions on a number of bizarre worlds. But for Otto, it's a different matter: what he has to witness and what he is forced to do take a terrible toll on him ...

Note: I am not commenting on the quality of Dollhouse, just the "politics" of television.

I am curious to se how long this show lasts.

In it's (very) basic state, it isn't much different than My Own Worst Enemy. And My Own Worst Enemy only made it nine episodes.

I want to see if this show gets yanked just as fast. I am betting not because a) it has beautiful women, and b) it has Joss Whedon's name on it. I just wish either Dollhouse didn't have Joss Whedon on it, or My Own Worst Enemy had him as well just so I can judge how much "pull" his name has.

[quote]I want to see if this show gets yanked just as fast. I am betting not because a) it has beautiful women, and b) it has Joss Whedon's name on it. I just wish either Dollhouse didn't have Joss Whedon on it, or My Own Worst Enemy had him as well just so I can judge how much "pull" his name has.
Well, I hate to break it to you, but Firefly had beautiful women in, and Joss Whedon's name. Though I suppose it lasted 13 episodes!

I'm going to wait a few episodes, to see if this series actually survives. If it does, then I'll watch it, as it looks fascinating. But I don't want my heart broken again, as happened with Firefly.

I DVR'd this and watched it Saturday. I enjoyed the hell out of it. It was clever, with some intriguing plot twists, and pretty decent acting. All in all, I hope it lasts.

I thought it was a fairly engaging show, especially with all of the first episode explanation baggage. It should get better in the next few just because it won't have to go over that. My one big concern at this point is that there are 2-3 big questions about how and why things exist as they do in the show. If they ignore these elements and keep them as "mysteries" too long, I'm likely to stop watching since my suspension of disbelief will start to falter.

I thought it was a fairly engaging show, especially with all of the first episode explanation baggage. It should get better in the next few just because it won't have to go over that. My one big concern at this point is that there are 2-3 big questions about how and why things exist as they do in the show. If they ignore these elements and keep them as "mysteries" too long, I'm likely to stop watching since my suspension of disbelief will start to falter.

** spoiler omitted **

While much more serious in tone than other items of Joss' offering, my wife and I enjoyed it and intend on continuing to support it for now.

They did try to cram a lot of story elements into that first episode, but I get that they had to set up all the characters for the series from the beginning.

-DM Jeff

I caught an episode of My Own Worse Enemy. I like Christian Slater. I have been a fan since Pump Up the Volume.

I am sure having Eliza dance around in skimpy outfits is hurting ratings. I think trying to say the only reason DH may succeed where MOWE failed is because of Eliza and Joss is a bit of a stretch.

MOWE’s pacing was pretty slow and felt like it was fumbling to find itself. Christian was great, but the rest of the actors were not really pulling their weight. Top that off with just giving away the secret to the audience.

DH’s pacing is crisp. There is some serious, veteran t.v. acting talent framing Eliza. DH manages not to give the house away while keeping the audience in on the secret. Not quite like Lost where they never explain a damn thing.

Sure, there are some holes in DH. The writers/director/editors are smart enough to keep things moving too fast for us to really see them until about five minutes after the show. You know, the refrigerator moment. Audiences are willing to overlook that.

I was Mystery Science 2000ing MOWE the entire episode.

Now if someone could explain to me how Knight Rider is still on and I will happily concede that hawt chicks is all you need.

Holy Crap!

I really didn't see that coming.

Holy Crap!

** spoiler omitted **

I really didn't see that coming.

** spoiler omitted **

Aberzombie wrote:

Holy Crap!

** spoiler omitted **

I really didn't see that coming.

** spoiler omitted **

That's what I've been wondering for a while now. I like the show, but I can't imagine it going past 2 seasons and not getting tired.

Which just confirms that FOX = death for Sci-fi shows

Holy Crap!

** spoiler omitted **

I really didn't see that coming.

** spoiler omitted **

Finally watched the finale, and I thought it was pretty cool - Some very interesting revelations in the flash-back parts, and I really liked Alpha's origins. I hope it gets renewed, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Thanks to some spare time and the wonder of iTunes, I bought the first season of Dollhouse this morning and watched the entire twelve episodes today, in between bouts of résumés and cover letters.

That ... may have been a little much.

"Dear sir or madam,

"Please know that I have several useful mathematical and pedagogical skills currently imprinted, and it's very unlikely that I will go off-mission and kill any of your students. May I have a job, preferably one with a very relaxed dress code?"

By the way, the person sending the messages to Ballard ("we have a person on the inside") was, I think, not the person who was caught spying for the NSA at the end of that episode.

The NSA wanted to keep the Dollhouse under wraps. Whoever sent those messages wanted the Ballard to find it.

And the messages were also not sent by Alpha. During those episodes, Alpha probably didn't know where the Dollhouse was. Certainly, he wasn't breaking in every so often to hack into the parameters of the actives. And it stretches credulity to imagine that he knew all about November's missions.

The NSA wanted to keep the Dollhouse under wraps. Whoever sent those messages wanted the Ballard to find it.

I just rented the 4th DVD disc with the "extra" unaired "Epitaph One" episode, which is fairly mindblowing. Intended as a coda in case the series got cancelled, it takes place 10 years in the future and depicts a post apocalyptic scenario where someone got their hands on mind-wiping tech and unleashed it into the populace at large (this is public, marketed knowledge, so I'm not spoiling anything; I won't provide further details however as it's worth seeing). The mole may well have something to do with this.

It suggests that as Dollhouse continues--even if it doesn't end up in the same place as "Epitaph One" beings--it's going to go into a very different place than where it started.

damn.... the season opener was terrible...and the ratings showed it. Seems the season opener was the worse ratings the show ever got.

damn.... the season opener was terrible...and the ratings showed it. Seems the season opener was the worse ratings the show ever got.

I liked the season opener for the most part, although I'm disappointed that Ballard is becoming more and more important (and whoah is his role in the story getting creepy, though that's par for the course). He has the raw appeal of an unsanded two-by-four. It's also a shame that his role is pushing Boyd to the sidelines, because Boyd is awesome and the real action hero. Boyd should have had more of Ballard's role, and Ballard just shouldn't have existed except to introduce Mellie and then get killed dramatically.

Really like what they're doing with Dr. Saunders, and I thought Topher and Adelle had a good showing.

There ere a number of nice bits to the season opener. For example, Adelle's reaction when Victor reminds her "You're touching my face."

The scene between Echo and Dr.Saunders / Whiskey in the doctor's office was edited differently and extended in the season preview. For one, the cut-away with Dr. Saunders' hand reaching across the scalpels wasn't in the preview. (And, really, what was that supposed to add? Were we supposed to think that Whiskey was going to slice into Echo? Really??) The broadcast version also loses the last two lines of the scene:

ECHO: I want to be my best.
DR. SAUNDERS (offers Echo a lollipop): Good for you. You're done. (unwraps the lollipop and takes it herself) Go ... be your best.
ECHO: No one is their best in here.
--that's where the broadcast version ends--
DR. SAUNDERS: Echo, don't talk like that here. It isn't safe.
ECHO: Where is it safe?

There ere a number of nice bits to the season opener. For example, Adelle's reaction when Victor reminds her "You're touching my face."

The scene between Echo and Dr.Saunders / Whiskey in the doctor's office was edited differently and extended in the season preview. For one, the cut-away with Dr. Saunders' hand reaching across the scalpels wasn't in the preview. (And, really, what was that supposed to add? Were we supposed to think that Whiskey was going to slice into Echo? Really??) The broadcast version also loses the last two lines of the scene:

ECHO: I want to be my best.
DR. SAUNDERS (offers Echo a lollipop): Good for you. You're done. (unwraps the lollipop and takes it herself) Go ... be your best.
ECHO: No one is their best in here.
--that's where the broadcast version ends--
DR. SAUNDERS: Echo, don't talk like that here. It isn't safe.
ECHO: Where is it safe?

That's odd, Joel, because I'd just finished watching the episode as an iTunes download before posting. (So, I cop, I was imprecise when I wrote "televised version", since I as assuming the televised version and the version released on iTunes were identical except for the commercial interruptions.)

At this point in Season 2, none of Echo's assignments have gone right. None of the imprints have been stable. In Episodes 2 and 3, this is arguably Topher's fault. But ... it would be nice if the complications of at least some of the episodes stemmed from difficulties in the mission or assignment themselves, rather than the imprint / dollhouse process.

For now I am done with this show, tell me if it gets any better latter on in the season.

I am starting to Think Joss Weadon is over rated.

I liked Buffy and Angel and Serenity the movie, Loved Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog and I am looking forward to the sequel. Hated Firefly except for 1 or 2 episodes, great concept just IMO poorly implemented. I know there is a huge fan base for firefly that think that show did no wrong, I just disagree. Like I said though the Movie based on the show was good though.

Dollhouse by far is the worse thing he has created IMO.

hmmm... well that is 4 things by him I have liked, 2 I have not.. maybe he is just hit and miss for me.

Edit: Note on Dollhouse, They made a huge mistake reducing the Boyd Langton (Harry J. Lennix) part and replacing it with the Paul Ballard (Tahmoh Penikett) part, It was much better with Boyd getting most of the air time compared to Paul.

Dragonmoon, nod on the Boyd / Ballard issue.

I think that they did the right thing in making Ballard Echo's handler this season, because Ballard still has ulterior motives, and he'd be happy to turn traitor and work with Echo's nascent self-aware personality, whereas Boyd ...

... now, Boyd is a mystery. He's been a cop, and apparently a good one, and is now happy working for a company where the officers are essentially pimps and racketeers. There's something about Boyd.

... now, Boyd is a mystery. He's been a cop, and apparently a good one, and is now happy working for a company where the officers are essentially pimps and racketeers. There's something about Boyd.

It's entirely possible that the writer was going for a sight gag there, but in doing so, completely butchered the previously established characterization of Boyd, who would have taken this pretty seriously (and even copped to some outrage over it being allowed to happen in the first place), but also apparently forgot that Boyd is now the head of security, which makes this *his job* to worry about...

It would hardly be the first time that a Joss Whedon show has had someone acting ridiculously out of character for a tiny bit of unearned humor or pathos, but I was kinda hoping they'd get over that someday.

[
Boyd's definitely changed. He gets the phone message that Victor's been imprinted with a serial killer personality and is wandering loose and untrackable in Los Angeles somewhere, and he smiles, shrugs and goes on with his day, legs propped up, sipping his coffee and reading his paper, completely fine with the situation.

Or maybe <i>this</i> Boyd is a copy of Boyd that's been tweaked with?

Regarding "Belonging",

Sad to hear that they're going to start running these two at a time to more quickly meet their 13-episode commitment. It looks like yet another Joss show dead before its time at FOX's hands.

I'm enjoying this season a little more now. Sucks that we have to wait until December for another new episode.

So, apparently this one just got the axe... It's a shame.

*Shrug.*

I watched the pilot and was not impressed enough to watch the second episode. In response to the hype, I watched episode one of season two and had the same reaction.

Maybe the problem for people like me is trying to connect to a lead character whose real personality is barely glimpsed each week. Regardless, I don't think Fox did Joss a disservice with this show.

Sad to hear that they're going to start running these two at a time to more quickly meet their 13-episode commitment. It looks like yet another Joss show dead before its time at FOX's hands.

In my mind the show is average.

Plenty of folks out there saying Whedon got shafted... like with Firefly. Since Buffy/Angel, I personally think Whedon has lost it.

Dr Horrible's Sing-a-long blog was super sweet.

Dr Horrible's Sing-a-long blog was super sweet.

I will agree that this wasn't Whedon's other works. It had some good episodes, but overall I was disappointed (ironically my favorite episode was the one that wasn't showed). Can't say why it didn't connect with me though. Just lacked a certain je ne sais quoi I guess.

I think it has started to pick up towards the end, and I will still buy the second season when it comes out on blueray (if only to complete my collection). Hopefully, this will free up Whedon's time to work on a sequel to Dr. Horrible :)

I still love most of his other works, and no one gets a home run every time I guess. Hopefully his next project will at the quality of Firefly, Buffy and Angel at its best.

Ruminations regarding the two-hour episode this past week:

That was on last week? Damn! I knew I was forgetting something.

Is it just me or has Dollhouse gotten better? I really like what has happened in recent episodes.

Is it just me or has Dollhouse gotten better? I really like what has happened in recent episodes.

What you're seeing is the JMS Babylon Five effect. When NBC kept telling JMS that B5 was getting cancelled, he ate a can of spinach and starting fuel-injecting every episode with all of the best stories he *had* to tell as quickly as possible. Which resulted in really great episodes, which got him renewed... and struggling to wonder what he was going to do for a plot now that he'd wrapped it up...

However, I don't think Joss will be so lucky.

Have you see the unaired 13th episode of the first season? "Epitaph One"? It was set in the future, and never aired on tv yet. (Available from iTunes). Joss said that it would be canonical no matter what.

He's aiming the episodes to coincide with "Epitaph One".

If this has already been discussed in the thread, my regrets. Just google "Dollhouse Cancelled" and you'll see all sorts of news articles dated November 11, 2009.

Mild "Epitaph One" Spoilers: It won't wreck it entirely, but it will give you a small taste.

Yeah got that... though I really meant that the show has picked up. Check out the eps guide:
http://epguides.com/Dollhouse/

Personally, I dont think Joss has had any good shows since buffy/angel. I could not see Dollhouse going on and was suprised it lasted the one season. Looking forward to Epitaph Two: Return to see where that future path leads.

Part of the current storyline is that Echo has access to all the imprints she's been given. For that to have dramatic impact, and for that to still have limitations, we've had to see the imprints. That was Season One.

Some more ruminations: