paizo.com Recent Comments on Meet the Villains—Linxia Benzekripaizo.com Recent Comments on Meet the Villains—Linxia Benzekri2016-03-24T01:39:13Z2016-03-24T01:39:13ZRe: Forums: Hell's Vengeance: Paizo Blog: Meet the Villains--Linxia BenzekriDeadmanwalkinghttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lic7&page=4?Meet-the-VillainsLinxia-Benzekri#1622016-02-26T02:09:46Z2016-02-25T18:44:39Z<p>For the record, the idea of torture being 'necessary' is absurd. It's a terrible information extraction method, and what else would it be 'necessary' for?</p>
<p>As for the character, I like her and absolutely believe she's Evil. Someone LN might turn in their parents, but they'd also argue for them, beg for clemency and do other things within the law to save them from being tortured to death. She did nothing...and indeed, watching her parents tortured to death <i>inspired her to join the people who did it</i>. That's messed up.</p>
<p>As for why people play evil games...it rather depends on the person. Some people just like letting their dark side out to play for a change.</p>For the record, the idea of torture being 'necessary' is absurd. It's a terrible information extraction method, and what else would it be 'necessary' for?
As for the character, I like her and absolutely believe she's Evil. Someone LN might turn in their parents, but they'd also argue for them, beg for clemency and do other things within the law to save them from being tortured to death. She did nothing...and indeed, watching her parents tortured to death inspired her to join the people who...Deadmanwalking2016-02-25T18:44:39ZRe: Forums: Hell's Vengeance: Paizo Blog: Meet the Villains--Linxia BenzekriSissylhttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lic7&page=4?Meet-the-VillainsLinxia-Benzekri#1612016-02-25T23:00:00Z2016-02-25T17:21:02Z<p>That some people consider torture necessary says a lot about them and very little about those who do not consider torture necessary. And those who torture are still evil for it. "I was just following orders" is officially a dead argument since the Nuremberg trials.</p>That some people consider torture necessary says a lot about them and very little about those who do not consider torture necessary. And those who torture are still evil for it. "I was just following orders" is officially a dead argument since the Nuremberg trials.Sissyl2016-02-25T17:21:02ZRe: Forums: Hell's Vengeance: Paizo Blog: Meet the Villains--Linxia BenzekriVargrBoartuskhttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lic7&page=4?Meet-the-VillainsLinxia-Benzekri#1602016-02-25T10:09:54Z2016-02-25T05:48:54Z<p>So I'm super late to this party but I just found all these evil iconics and then read all this discussion so this might get kind of rambly.</p>
<p>As to this Iconic and why I think she's evil is as many people have mentioned her utter lack of empathy and her willingness to use brutality to inflict her world views on people who disagree. <More on this in the evil chunk to follow.> It's in her willingness to consider feelings or motivations or circumstance. They broke the law. Period. They deserve what they get. That she never pauses to go is this taking it too far is why she's evil.</p>
<p>D&D evil from everything I've seen mostly boils down to the more willing you are to disregard the feelings, rights, lives, etc. etc. etc. of other thinking people the more you lean towards E. If you dedicate your life to making other people happy you're G. If you focus on making yourself happy but don't screw anyone else over ? Welcome to N-town. If your willing to do anything to anyone for your desires? E all the way. Yes, this is a great oversimplification but this is as close to a baseline as I can break it down to before the alignment system starts arguing with itself. So basically, D&D evil boils down to pure selfishness with some fancy window dressing to make it seem more profound.</p>
<p>Now we get to the super fun parts. Since in pathfinder good and evil are both subjective and objective with paladins being able to detect it but people still occasionally doing it in the furtherance of good aims. Really no one honestly thinks they're the bad guy not to mention mustache-twirling villainy as a virtue 'I do evil for the evil of it' villains are the height of slapdash hack writing and are never as interesting as someone with actual relatable motivations, even if the lack of relatability makes it easier to square away one's feelings over stabbing the crap out of them for their loot and XP. This leads to all sorts of fun if odd mental space where objective evil is subjective good that leaves a lot of fun space on the ethical dance floor to get funky in. Like for example, your goal is to make the world a good happy safe place for everyone to live in but you'll gladly murder everyone who violates a law to do it. Viola, you have an Evil person with a Good goal and a liberating amount of grey area for those of us who are tired of the usual Hero's vs a badass Snydly Whiplash paradigm popular child-friendly fantasy shoves into us like needles into the eye. </p>
<p>As to the torture is evil round about discussion I can see how some people would believe torture is evil and with subjective morality being what it is I'm not going to argue it, but I have to put in that if such things are always evil then at times evil is a required tool to deal with otherwise unwinnable situations and people who could't torture the crap out of someone to accomplish a goal that •must• be accomplished, such as the saving of multiple lives, should be thankful there are those of us who are willing compartmentalise, all so the lily white hands of someone else can stay clean. People who aren't awful who have had to dip their pen into the monster ink from time to time tend to feel bad enough about it that calling them evil is gauche. It's necessarily an incorrect judgement but, after all, there's no need to torture them about it.</p>
<p>Which brings me to my last point. Most people don't usually flock towards evil Campaigns to 'Just be bad guys and kick puppies.' It's because the traditional hero paradigm has tropes that give you much less moral wiggle room to play in and pull apart the psyche of one's character for drama and or catharsis.</p>So I'm super late to this party but I just found all these evil iconics and then read all this discussion so this might get kind of rambly.
As to this Iconic and why I think she's evil is as many people have mentioned her utter lack of empathy and her willingness to use brutality to inflict her world views on people who disagree. It's in her willingness to consider feelings or motivations or circumstance. They broke the law. Period. They deserve what they get. That she never pauses to go is...VargrBoartusk2016-02-25T05:48:54ZRe: Forums: Hell's Vengeance: Paizo Blog: Meet the Villains--Linxia Benzekrideinolhttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lic7&page=4?Meet-the-VillainsLinxia-Benzekri#1592016-01-28T18:21:26Z2016-01-28T18:21:26Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Rob McCreary wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Paladinosaur wrote:</div><blockquote> Can we expect so see these iconic villains making appearances outside the Hell's Vengeance AP? </blockquote>It's possible, but we have no long-term plans for using them outside of Hell's Vengeance at this point. </blockquote><p>Pathfinder Card Game! It always needs more cool character cards, and the art is already commissioned.Rob McCreary wrote:Paladinosaur wrote: Can we expect so see these iconic villains making appearances outside the Hell's Vengeance AP?
It's possible, but we have no long-term plans for using them outside of Hell's Vengeance at this point. Pathfinder Card Game! It always needs more cool character cards, and the art is already commissioned.deinol2016-01-28T18:21:26ZRe: Forums: Hell's Vengeance: Paizo Blog: Meet the Villains--Linxia BenzekriCruel Illusionhttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lic7&page=4?Meet-the-VillainsLinxia-Benzekri#1582016-01-21T20:31:05Z2016-01-21T20:31:05Z<p>She's one terrifying lady. Wow.</p>She's one terrifying lady. Wow.Cruel Illusion2016-01-21T20:31:05ZRe: Forums: Hell's Vengeance: Paizo Blog: Meet the Villains--Linxia BenzekriFaunra Chorval (alias of magnumCPA)https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lic7&page=4?Meet-the-VillainsLinxia-Benzekri#1572016-01-19T21:51:34Z2016-01-19T21:51:34Z<p>Huh that reminds of this character I played in Serpents Skull. Except a Mwangi instead of a Garundi. </p>
<p>The backstory and attitude are almost close enough to serve as a gender-swapped variant even! </p>
<p>I was planning on remaking him as a Bloodrager tiefling instead of a severely deformed Human fighter who just worships Asmodeus (though I was going to have him multiclass with inquisitor once I figured out a way to make it work out...I never did ;_; )</p>
<p>Anyway always love me some new character art.</p>Huh that reminds of this character I played in Serpents Skull. Except a Mwangi instead of a Garundi.
The backstory and attitude are almost close enough to serve as a gender-swapped variant even!
I was planning on remaking him as a Bloodrager tiefling instead of a severely deformed Human fighter who just worships Asmodeus (though I was going to have him multiclass with inquisitor once I figured out a way to make it work out...I never did ;_; )
Anyway always love me some new character art.Faunra Chorval (alias of magnumCPA)2016-01-19T21:51:34ZRe: Forums: Hell's Vengeance: Paizo Blog: Meet the Villains--Linxia BenzekriMuserhttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lic7&page=4?Meet-the-VillainsLinxia-Benzekri#1562016-01-17T22:37:35Z2016-01-17T22:37:35Z<p>That's Punisher in just the 616 continuity though. That famous demotivational poster for Batman is IIRC full of pretty crazy Elseworlds instead (DKR, All-Star, etc). Those are very nearly different characters instead of different takes.</p>That's Punisher in just the 616 continuity though. That famous demotivational poster for Batman is IIRC full of pretty crazy Elseworlds instead (DKR, All-Star, etc). Those are very nearly different characters instead of different takes.Muser2016-01-17T22:37:35ZRe: Forums: Hell's Vengeance: Paizo Blog: Meet the Villains--Linxia BenzekriDominusMegadeushttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lic7&page=4?Meet-the-VillainsLinxia-Benzekri#1552016-01-16T07:13:00Z2016-01-16T05:05:30Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Muser wrote:</div><blockquote><p> It also depends on the writer. Rucka's Punisher is broody and methodical, Ennis' patriotic but homicidal, etc.</p>
<p>Urban Ranger, btw. Maybe Slayer, maybe. </blockquote><p>That is the issue with trying to determine any comic character's alignment. You can examine 3 Batmen and get 9 different alignments, after all. Definitely depends on who's writing.Muser wrote:It also depends on the writer. Rucka's Punisher is broody and methodical, Ennis' patriotic but homicidal, etc.
Urban Ranger, btw. Maybe Slayer, maybe.
That is the issue with trying to determine any comic character's alignment. You can examine 3 Batmen and get 9 different alignments, after all. Definitely depends on who's writing.DominusMegadeus2016-01-16T05:05:30ZRe: Forums: Hell's Vengeance: Paizo Blog: Meet the Villains--Linxia BenzekriMuserhttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lic7&page=4?Meet-the-VillainsLinxia-Benzekri#1542016-01-27T00:41:36Z2016-01-15T10:34:27Z<p>It also depends on the writer. Rucka's Punisher is broody and methodical, Ennis' patriotic but homicidal, etc.</p>
<p>Urban Ranger, btw. Maybe Slayer, maybe.</p>It also depends on the writer. Rucka's Punisher is broody and methodical, Ennis' patriotic but homicidal, etc.
Urban Ranger, btw. Maybe Slayer, maybe.Muser2016-01-15T10:34:27ZRe: Forums: Hell's Vengeance: Paizo Blog: Meet the Villains--Linxia BenzekriDominusMegadeushttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lic7&page=4?Meet-the-VillainsLinxia-Benzekri#1532016-01-15T10:31:16Z2016-01-13T19:40:41Z<p>Yeah, Punisher isn't about protecting the innocent or preserving their lives. He tortures and kills people because his family died. Tragic and probably well-meaning in the long run, but Evil.</p>
<p>Committing Evil to do Good is Evil in Pathfinder, but I personally feel he can fit CE, NE and LE equally because of how open to interpretation the Ethic side of Alignement is. </p>
<p><span class=messageboard-ooc>Not that the Moral side is any clearer...</span></p>Yeah, Punisher isn't about protecting the innocent or preserving their lives. He tortures and kills people because his family died. Tragic and probably well-meaning in the long run, but Evil.
Committing Evil to do Good is Evil in Pathfinder, but I personally feel he can fit CE, NE and LE equally because of how open to interpretation the Ethic side of Alignement is.
Not that the Moral side is any clearer...DominusMegadeus2016-01-13T19:40:41ZRe: Forums: Hell's Vengeance: Paizo Blog: Meet the Villains--Linxia BenzekriSissylhttps://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lic7&page=4?Meet-the-VillainsLinxia-Benzekri#1522016-01-14T06:24:55Z2016-01-13T17:49:01Z<p>He is still driven by hatred. He is not exactly unpredictable nor particularly freedom minded, so I would still put him at Neutral for law and chaos, and I maintain that he is unabashedly Evil.</p>He is still driven by hatred. He is not exactly unpredictable nor particularly freedom minded, so I would still put him at Neutral for law and chaos, and I maintain that he is unabashedly Evil.Sissyl2016-01-13T17:49:01ZRe: Forums: Hell's Vengeance: Paizo Blog: Meet the Villains--Linxia BenzekriMannyGoblin (alias of Andrea1)https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lic7&page=4?Meet-the-VillainsLinxia-Benzekri#1512016-01-13T07:57:27Z2016-01-13T07:57:27Z<p>He does plan his attacks to avoid civilian deaths and won't target honest cops and soldiers. He gave a beat down to several honest soldiers but made escape a priority.</p>He does plan his attacks to avoid civilian deaths and won't target honest cops and soldiers. He gave a beat down to several honest soldiers but made escape a priority.MannyGoblin (alias of Andrea1)2016-01-13T07:57:27Z