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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game

Starfinder


Pathfinder Society


Pathfinder Adventure Card Game


Introducing the Core Campaign

Monday, January 26, 2015


Illustration by Grafit Studio

As the Pathfinder Society Organized Play campaign and the Pathfinder RPG itself has developed over the last several years, players have expressed increasing concerns about the availability of replay, new players being overwhelmed or overshadowed by over-optimized characters, Chronicle sheet rewards not having much meaning, and other concerns related to the sheer amount of information and options available to PFS players. With the help of our dedicated venture-captains, the team here at Paizo has developed a solution designed to solve all of these problems—and more. We call this solution the Core Campaign, a new mode of PFS play that utilizes all of the campaign's current scenarios and resources—only with a significantly lower barrier to entry. Here are some of the highlights:

  • The current Pathfinder Society campaign remains unchanged with use of all of Additional Resources. It is still named Pathfinder Society Organized Play. The new option will be titled Pathfinder Society Core Campaign. Both campaign "modes" use the same scenarios, modules, and other sanctioned adventure resources.
  • Every new and veteran player may participate in both the current and Core Campaign at the same time.
  • For players participating in the Core Campaign, only the Core Rulebook, Character Traits Web Enhancement, and Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play may be utilized for character creation.
  • At no time may any trait, feat, equipment, magic item, skill, animal companion, familiar, or any other character option come from a source beyond these three resources unless it appears on a Chronicle sheet. Race boons found on Chronicle sheets may not be used in the Core Campaign.
  • If an item appears on a Chronicle sheet, a PC may purchase and use it regardless of the book it comes from, with the exception of a boon that opens up a different character race.
  • Just like in the current campaign, a player may receive credit once for playing and once for GMing a scenario in the Core Campaign; this credit is independent of player and GM credit in the Pathfinder Society Organized Play campaign. This means a player can play once in each of the two campaigns and GM for credit once in each of the campaigns (four credits total, two per campaign), not including any limited replay opportunities established in the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play.
  • At any point a player wants to transition their character from the Core Campaign to the existing campaign, they may do so. However, they may not bring that character back to the Core Campaign. As set forth in the current rules, a character may not have two of the same Chronicle sheet assigned to him, regardless of whether it was earned in the Core or existing campaign.

  • Illustration by
    Jason Rainville
  • GMs may utilize whatever books a scenario, module, quest, Adventure Path, or other sanctioned adventure utilizes.
  • The Core Campaign offers limited replay opportunities for players who have already experienced an adventure in the standard campaign. There have been comments that veteran players have limited opportunities to play with new players and "show them the ropes." Opening up every adventure for replay an additional time allows for veteran players to play a scenario with a new player and still receive credit.
  • This initative allows for an immediate influx of four new play opportunities every month—two new senarios playable in the existing campaign and the same two scenarios avalable for play in the Core Campaign.
  • Game mechanics outside of the Core Rulebook, such as reposition and dirty trick, are not allowed unless a Chronicle sheet specifically opens it as a character option.
  • Retraining may be utilized as the rules currently allow, but only when a PC retrains to take an option from one of the allowed Core Campaign resources.
  • GMs will receive star credit for GMing a game, regardless of whether it was an existing campaign or Core Campaign game.
  • If a Core Rulebook option advises that something found in the Core Rulebook is clarified in the Bestiary 1, then the player uses that specific option out of the Bestiary 1 to meet the requirement set forth in the Core Rulebook. That would include, but is not limited to, animal companions, special abilities, summon spells, etc... Only the Bestiary 1 is available for these extra options outside of the Core Rulebook.

The next question I think people will ask is: when we will be able to start playing games in the Core Campaign? We're planning to have this system publicly available and ready for you to use later this week! When creating a new event, the new system will allow you to select if a scenario is being run in the existing campaign, Core Campaign, or both (for multiple tables of the same adventure). Likewise, when reporting data from completed sessions, the system allows the person entering data to choose to report which campaign the session was run in.

We hope that this new initiative, along with the new faction journal cards highlighted in last week's blog, will bring an exciting new energy to the campaign on a global scale. I look forward to reading thoughts about the new Core Campaign and how it will help your local Pathfinder Society community.

Mike Brock
Global Organized Play Coordinator

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Grafit Studio Jason Rainville Pathfinder Society
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Sovereign Court *** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm excited about the opportunity to play/GM season 0-3 scenarios at a closer to intended PC power level. I like the plot of many of them but get turned off by how feeble some of the enemies are.

Silver Crusade **

3 people marked this as a favorite.
GM Lamplighter wrote:
rknop wrote:

...I'm realizing that there is one thing in Ultimate Equipment that I really wish was in the CRB. And that is: the journal.

It seems to me every Pathfinder ought to have one of those. I usually equip all of my characters with one. But, alas, it's not in the CRB, so....

Maybe this, like the Wayfinder, could go into the next Guide to Organized Play?

I just buy my guys a spellbook and use it as a journal.

Grand Lodge ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jiggy wrote:
Scribbling Rambler wrote:
Undone wrote:

[

The real problem is GM's actually believe the bolded part of people who optimize.
What are they supposed to believe when somebody says they want to "break the game"?
Perhaps that that single individual might do something disruptive, rather than attributing that attitude to a whole category of people who have no interest in such a goal?

Mis-communicated.

As a GM, I don't believe that all optimizers wish to ruin a game. Almost all players optimize to some extent (including me).
However, I do believe that some optimizers do set out to spoil peoples fun. Which is what I quoted (EDIT: "people who optimize" not "everyone who optimizes").

Silver Crusade ***** RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8 aka GreySector

So, wizards can learn non-Core spells from scrolls. Can a sorcerer hwo has a non-Core spell as a scroll on one of her chronicle sheets take it as a spell known at her next opportunity? Does it require her to purchase the scroll, or simply have it on her chronicle sheet? If the former, does she need to continue to own the scroll (for example if she used the scroll would she be forced to 'unlearn' the non-Core spell)?

*

Scribbling Rambler wrote:


Mis-communicated.
As a GM, I don't believe that all optimizers wish to ruin a game. Almost all players optimize to some extent (including me).
However, I do believe that some optimizers do set out to spoil peoples fun. Which is what I quoted (EDIT: "people who optimize" not "everyone who optimizes").

Ok that's a little different than what was said but what was said really IS the attitude of some GM's (Optimization is evil and ruins the game).

*****

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Undone wrote:
Scribbling Rambler wrote:


Mis-communicated.
As a GM, I don't believe that all optimizers wish to ruin a game. Almost all players optimize to some extent (including me).
However, I do believe that some optimizers do set out to spoil peoples fun. Which is what I quoted (EDIT: "people who optimize" not "everyone who optimizes").
Ok that's a little different than what was said but what was said really IS the attitude of some GM's (Optimization is evil and ruins the game).

Actually, the bolded part that was said was about a person who intends to ruin the game for others...that doesn't say optimizers, that says jerk. Two completely different things.

Scarab Sages *****

Kevin Ingle wrote:
BretI wrote:

I'm not sure what all the backlash is about.

As I understand the rules, if you want to do a non-core character and have played every adventure already there is a solution.

Go through The Confirmation in CORE Only. Get your 1 XP.

Now convert that character to non-core. It can still replay any scenario because it started as CORE Only. Since it is still first level, you are allowed to do a full rebuild.

Seems simple and within the rules. Please advise if I've got something wrong.

If this works as expected, I expect many Confirmation runs in the short term to be converted to CORE Only.

You can play scenarios once in CORE mode and once in NORMAL mode. If you take your CORE character and play him in NORMAL mode, he is now and forever a NORMAL character and plays with all such restrictions as if it started that way.

Plus you must make up the character as a Core character - no getting credit in Core and building a non-Core character - you make the Core character and then it joins the non-Core campaign.


Undone wrote:
Most players I've talked to said they just wouldn't come back if turned away from a game because of that but a better question is what happens when 4/6 are non CC characters? Do you just not play?

This is a concern, but I don't think this will happen much in practice. If there are multiple tables going, it's almost always possible to reshuffle the tables so that everyone can play. Many experienced players already bring multiple characters in case there's a table shuffle, so bringing a backup Core character as well won't be a big deal. Most brand new players are pretty flexible too, so if they happen to build a non-core character, it's easy to just play a core pregen and rebuild later. The key will be a clear explanation of the Core Campaign rules front and center in the next edition of the Organized Play Guide, and clear labeling on signup sites like Warhorn. Make it easy for new players to understand the difference as they're getting started, and make it easy for experienced players to know what they're signing up for.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Atlanta aka Yiroep

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Dhjika wrote:
but lack of magical lineage and wayang spell hunter and some other traits and feats make them actually work at it a little more.

Magical Lineage is completely available in Core, actually.

Sczarni **

1 person marked this as a favorite.

This is a great move. In the two game stores the collective of GMs I work with play out of, we have had an increased showing of youthful PCs(13 and under). We GMs had plotted amount ourselves about setting this very idea as a 'house' rule at our table to help with not only the cost(I didn't have much money just sitting on my dresser to have fun with at 13) but to easy them into the larger world of PFS. And now allowing us a second run at scenarios in 'core' mode is just the cherry on top. Fantastic work!!!

Scarab Sages *****

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Great News. Happy to see that happen. Avoid stupid things and no balance new option (Out : Gunslinguer, abuse feat or archetype) come to most basic game who give more space to cooperation and roleplaying and more fluent game without rules discussion

But only one big missing : Why not Include the Inner Sea World Guide in the Core assumption.

We play on Golarion and for me the most important its to play and have the flavor of the World. Most of them play Pathfinder to have the flavor of the World, and without that it's a big missing

Like the language, lot of modules refere to Kelish, Polyglotte, Varisian, Osirion, Ancient Osirion, Azlant, Thassilonian. And its not possible to learn this langage.

Can you explain me what new player see between Golarion setting and another one, without that ? Its like give a nice dinner without any flavor and with no taste.

Really hope this point change in the final.

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Captain, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

GM Lamplighter wrote:
Quote:
"How can I break the Core?" has been a very fun thought experiment.

This, right here, is why PFS players and GMs drift away from the game abandon public Organized Play for private PFS or home games. Not just because of complexity, or cost, or availability, but because a small group of players see the game as being "how do I break it".

As pointed out, Core Campaign won't weed out players with intentions to ruin the game for others. Only GMs and Coordinators can do that. And they should. This will make the biggest positive impact on your local Lodge, and it is something that is totally out of Paizo's hands.

Sorry but you won't be surprised that there will be a number of players, who are currently planning what they can get away with in a CORE campaign.

Some are in it for the intellectual challenge, those aren't really problem players, since the usually have the social graces not to dominate the game.
The others will be comprised of those who feel this CORE campaign forced on them, and to quote John Oliver's talk about mandatory voting in Brazil " if you force people to participate, they are goint to f!!! with it". My analogue doesn't quite work, but some players will see what they can get away with, just to prove that switching to core doesn't tame power gamers at all.

However fighting this proactively is pretty much wasted effort, these things are best taken care of at the table, by the GM and the other players.

Liberty's Edge ***** Venture-Captain, Virginia—Richmond West aka Slothsy

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm also a little stumped by people who claim that this will split the game. It's not direct competition with each other; it's an additional option to support new players and those who want a simpler game. Both groups are still playing PFS. It'll be more complicated to organize, but not any more than offering different subtier tables at the same event (such as a 1-5 and a 7-11; if one table doesn't make, you can't just grab you level 9 and jump on the 1-5). Players will still need to read and know what to bring, or be prepared to play a pregen.

If you try Core and don't like it, or your region decides not to ultimately support core, you can convert (or just keep to normal mode, add in whatever legals options you want as you level, and have at it. There seems like there's nothing to lose from trying it (except a more restricted set of options to start with), as it just converts. Normal mode is still very much the default, and I would guess that the majority of tables will still be normal mode.

Also, notably, this requires few additional resources on Paizo's end (reporting, language in the guide). The old D&D edition complication required extensive support in terms of budgeting and money. Paizo doesn't need to make a separate set of scenarios or another line of books. In addition, for players it doesn't require more money either. Here, if you're playing already in the normal mode, you have everything you need to play. If you start playing in core, you'll be able to upgrade when you want to.

For me, it's going to be much easier to sit down with people interested in trying the game, pull a CRB off the shelf and say "this is all you need to play" and know that's absolutely true in the Core campaign. In the normal campaign, you do get "that's all you need to play, but..." I've been trying to reach out to new players and to get people interested, and this is another tool available.

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Captain, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Michael Eshleman wrote:
So, wizards can learn non-Core spells from scrolls. Can a sorcerer hwo has a non-Core spell as a scroll on one of her chronicle sheets take it as a spell known at her next opportunity? Does it require her to purchase the scroll, or simply have it on her chronicle sheet? If the former, does she need to continue to own the scroll (for example if she used the scroll would she be forced to 'unlearn' the non-Core spell)?

I second the question, and would like to expand it to divine casters who prepare spells. If the wizard can add that fancy new scroll to his paper collection, why can't I ask my god to let me prepare that fancy new spell I found on a scroll?

Sczarni *****

Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Joe M. wrote:
GM Lamplighter wrote:
rknop wrote:

...I'm realizing that there is one thing in Ultimate Equipment that I really wish was in the CRB. And that is: the journal.

It seems to me every Pathfinder ought to have one of those. I usually equip all of my characters with one. But, alas, it's not in the CRB, so....

Maybe this, like the Wayfinder, could go into the next Guide to Organized Play?
I just buy my guys a spellbook and use it as a journal.

It's been stated many times in this thread, but since the Wayfinder is listed as "always available" in the Guide, it's also available in CORE.

Sovereign Court ***** Owner - Enchanted Grounds

8 people marked this as a favorite.

Hey Mike (and John, and Eric, and anyone else involved in this decision and reading this). In case you missed my other post: I love this idea. As a store with scores of players in PFS, I see nothing but good things coming out of this. New player acquisition will go up. Veteran player retention will go up. Sales will go up. Excitement for the campaign will go up.

This is a huge win from my standpoint (store owner, coordinator, GM, player), and I want to be sure you know that.

Spoiler:
As I am someone who is vehemently opposed to replay of any sort, I hope it is obvious how much of a win this new idea is when you've gotten me to get fully on board with it, no reservations whatsoever.

Sczarni *****

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Just wanted to bump this.

Nefreet wrote:

I just scanned the Traits Web Enhancement.

Is the Additional Traits feat legal, since it's included at the end?

And I find it odd that the document covers Race and Religion Traits, but doesn't list any.

Perhaps it's due for an update?

Is it possible to update the Traits Web Enhancement with all of the Traits (except maybe the Campaign Traits) that are found in the APG?

I mean, it doesn't make sense to me that the Enhancement references them, but doesn't list them.


As a player, I am kind of indifferent about the new push. Could be fun, could be annoying, could be neither, and I could never encounter it. I'll just let the dice fall where they land and move forward with games I can find in my area.

EDIT: Thought it was funny that the illustration chosen for the post features the Witch which is not core. XD

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Captain, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Rigby Bendele wrote:

I'm also a little stumped by people who claim that this will split the game. It's not direct competition with each other; it's an additional option to support new players and those who want a simpler game. Both groups are still playing PFS. It'll be more complicated to organize, but not any more than offering different subtier tables at the same event (such as a 1-5 and a 7-11; if one table doesn't make, you can't just grab you level 9 and jump on the 1-5). Players will still need to read and know what to bring, or be prepared to play a pregen.

If you try Core and don't like it, or your region decides not to ultimately support core, you can convert (or just keep to normal mode, add in whatever legals options you want as you level, and have at it. There seems like there's nothing to lose from trying it (except a more restricted set of options to start with), as it just converts. Normal mode is still very much the default, and I would guess that the majority of tables will still be normal mode.

Also, notably, this requires few additional resources on Paizo's end (reporting, language in the guide). The old D&D edition complication required extensive support in terms of budgeting and money. Paizo doesn't need to make a separate set of scenarios or another line of books. In addition, for players it doesn't require more money either. Here, if you're playing already in the normal mode, you have everything you need to play. If you start playing in core, you'll be able to upgrade when you want to.

For me, it's going to be much easier to sit down with people interested in trying the game, pull a CRB off the shelf and say "this is all you need to play" and know that's absolutely true in the Core campaign. In the normal campaign, you do get "that's all you need to play, but..." I've been trying to reach out to new players and to get people interested, and this is another tool available.

In reverse order:

The CRB isn't everything they need, they also need the guide, and frankly the same is true in regular PFS. No one really needs all those books to make a character and play, they do contain options that allow you to customize you character and make him a little closer to what your want, but that is very optional.

And even in CORE a new player is theoretically required to read the FAQs and errata (and treantmonks guides ^^ ). I get the a core only game can have advantages, but what is currently stopping you from just adding the following to your scenario description:" This is an adventure for new players, thus please try limit yourself almost completely to the options in the core rulebook? "

And regarding splitting the community, I have a pretty regular gaming PFS group with a nice, very competent GM. We are usually between 1 and 7 players, and if that specific GM decides to schedule a CORE scenario at our regular day, the players have 2 choices:
Play CORE or do not play at all (thus potentially taking away an opportunity to play).
Now let's say next Monday only 4 players have time to play and 2 want to play CORE and 2 would rather not, obviously we need to find some compromise, but if that doesn't work nobody gets to play and everybody loses.

If course that is currently the level of an internet argument ^^ IRL everyone involved is old enough not to let such petty differences split the group, but that is just our group, and I am unable to comment on the maturity of others.

Shadow Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Michigan—Alma

Joe M. wrote:
GM Lamplighter wrote:
rknop wrote:

...I'm realizing that there is one thing in Ultimate Equipment that I really wish was in the CRB. And that is: the journal.

It seems to me every Pathfinder ought to have one of those. I usually equip all of my characters with one. But, alas, it's not in the CRB, so....

Maybe this, like the Wayfinder, could go into the next Guide to Organized Play?
I just buy my guys a spellbook and use it as a journal.

I was going to post this exact same thing but waited to see if someone else had posted it already. :) For years before there was an official item called journal I bought spellbooks and used them as journals. They're books of high quality paper, they don't have to contain spells. In fact I've seen a spellbook that actually contained nothing but notes on certain subjects in a PFS scenario.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Scribbling Rambler wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Scribbling Rambler wrote:
Undone wrote:

[

The real problem is GM's actually believe the bolded part of people who optimize.
What are they supposed to believe when somebody says they want to "break the game"?
Perhaps that that single individual might do something disruptive, rather than attributing that attitude to a whole category of people who have no interest in such a goal?

Mis-communicated.

As a GM, I don't believe that all optimizers wish to ruin a game. Almost all players optimize to some extent (including me).
However, I do believe that some optimizers do set out to spoil peoples fun. Which is what I quoted (EDIT: "people who optimize" not "everyone who optimizes").

"People who do X" is the same group as "everyone who does X". They are not different statements unless "everyone" includes specimens who are somehow not included in "people".

If you don't mean to include all members of the group "people who do X", then you need to add a qualifier (like "some"), because naming a category includes all members of that category by definition. "People" and "everyone" refer to the same group.

EDIT: Same to Undone, for turning this into "GMs" and "optimizers" as categories.

*****

6 people marked this as a favorite.

I love how I get told to not assume that all players think the same way, and how all GMs *do* think the same way, in the same post. :)

If someone has the stated intention to "break the game", I frankly don't care if they're doing it by optimizing, or spotlight stealing, or roleplaying every interaction with every commoner on the way to the VO briefing, or inappropriate behavior at the table. They are destructive to my Lodge, and the attitude needs to change or they are better off gone. You may disagree; that's fine. I base my contention on evidence and personal experience.

In my experience as a player, GM, store coordinator, and VO, when a Lodge finally has to remove a player who is actively trying to "break the game", everyone benefits. (Even the person booted, quite frankly - in both cases where we've done it here, they wind up finding a home game of like-minded individuals, and keep playing PFS, without having to deal with all of the newbies and less-adept players that come to a public game.) Literally a win-win (well, except for the guy who got the crappy job of telling them they were no longer welcome.)

There is no obligation for a PFS Lodge to endure willfully destructive behavior on the part of any player, and there is every reason NOT to put up with it, for the long-term health of the Lodge.

*****

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Eric Clingenpeel wrote:
I was going to post this exact same thing but waited to see if someone else had posted it already. :)

What, reading ahead? MADNESS! ;)

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.
GM Lamplighter wrote:
I love how I get told to not assume that all players think the same way, and how all GMs *do* think the same way, in the same post. :)

Yeah, Undone's lack of caveats is unfortunate. See also: my recent reply to Scribbling Rambler.

Sometimes I don't know whether it's genuine ignorance of how clauses work in a sentence, or unconsciously believing the sweeping generalizations and not realizing that it shows through in their words.

Either way, this is why explosives are not strictly superior to bullets, in a manner of speaking.

Dark Archive

15 people marked this as a favorite.
cjtSparhawk wrote:
This is also going to make accommodating any player that shows up with a legal character a bit harder. "Sorry Joe even though we haven't seen you in 6 months, and you really want to play your lvl 5 Cavalier again, we only have core games tonight. Do you want to play a pregen?" Which also means there will have to be a set of pregens marked "core play approved".

<music box melody>

Do you wanna play a pregen?
We have several you can play.
See the sign, we put on the door.
Tonight, it's only Core.
Cavaliers another daaaaay!

You're still my dungeon-buddy,
And one fine day,
The gang will ride again once mooooooore.
But for now we've got a pregeeeen,
Made.
Of.
Coooooore.

<music box melody fade out>

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber
GM Lamplighter wrote:


If someone has the stated intention to "break the game", I frankly don't care if they're doing it by optimizing, or spotlight stealing, or roleplaying every interaction with every commoner on the way to the VO briefing, or inappropriate behavior at the table. They are destructive to my Lodge, and the attitude needs to change or they are better off gone. You may disagree; that's fine. I base my contention on evidence and personal experience.

Optimizing is not "breaking the game". In fact, in a core only game, optimizing may be required to even survive several scenarios (especially season six) or a module like Risen from the Sands.

If you think that optimizing in a core only game is grounds to be banned from your event, I hope I never play at your table.

Grand Lodge ****

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Imbicatus wrote:
GM Lamplighter wrote:


If someone has the stated intention to "break the game", I frankly don't care if they're doing it by optimizing, or spotlight stealing, or roleplaying every interaction with every commoner on the way to the VO briefing, or inappropriate behavior at the table. They are destructive to my Lodge, and the attitude needs to change or they are better off gone. You may disagree; that's fine. I base my contention on evidence and personal experience.

Optimizing is not "breaking the game". In fact, in a core only game, optimizing may be required to even survive several scenarios (especially season six) or a module like Risen from the Sands.

If you think that optimizing in a core only game is grounds to be banned from your event, I hope I never play at your table.

He's not saying that optimizing is breaking the game, just that he doesn't care if someone is using optimizing to break the game or breaking the game in another manner, because at that point all that matters is that they're breaking the game. The post that started this was someone explicitly saying they were trying to break the game.

Scarab Sages ***

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Jeff Merola wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
GM Lamplighter wrote:


If someone has the stated intention to "break the game", I frankly don't care if they're doing it by optimizing, or spotlight stealing, or roleplaying every interaction with every commoner on the way to the VO briefing, or inappropriate behavior at the table. They are destructive to my Lodge, and the attitude needs to change or they are better off gone. You may disagree; that's fine. I base my contention on evidence and personal experience.

Optimizing is not "breaking the game". In fact, in a core only game, optimizing may be required to even survive several scenarios (especially season six) or a module like Risen from the Sands.

If you think that optimizing in a core only game is grounds to be banned from your event, I hope I never play at your table.

He's not saying that optimizing is breaking the game, just that he doesn't care if someone is using optimizing to break the game or breaking the game in another manner, because at that point all that matters is that they're breaking the game. The post that started this was someone explicitly saying they were trying to break the game.

Exactly, the basic chain of conversation was:

"I'm going to break the game"

"People who try to break the game are bad for the game"

50 people: "Why do you hate optimizers?"


So is Society going to still give the re-rolls for bring various pieces of merchandise to the table? Like shirts and such cause I'd like to see that being done away with.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Duiker wrote:

Exactly, the basic chain of conversation was:

"I'm going to break the game"

"People who try to break the game are bad for the game"

50 people Undone: "Why do you hate optimizers?"

Fixed that for you. Your post makes the same fundamental error as Undone did (attributing one person's statement to lots of people). That manner of thinking is the root of a lot of the community's problems. Please don't engage in the very thing you're attempting to call out.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber
MrNastyButler wrote:
So is Society going to still give the re-rolls for bring various pieces of merchandise to the table? Like shirts and such cause I'd like to see that being done away with.

The re-rolls are allowed per the guide for organized play, so I would assume that is still active in CORE mode.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Federico Castrovel wrote:
cjtSparhawk wrote:
This is also going to make accommodating any player that shows up with a legal character a bit harder. "Sorry Joe even though we haven't seen you in 6 months, and you really want to play your lvl 5 Cavalier again, we only have core games tonight. Do you want to play a pregen?" Which also means there will have to be a set of pregens marked "core play approved".

<music box melody>

Do you wanna play a pregen?
We have several you can play.
See the sign, we put on the door.
Tonight, it's only Core.
Cavaliers another daaaaay!

You're still my dungeon-buddy,
And one fine day,
The gang will ride again once mooooooore.
But for now we've got a pregeeeen,
Made.
Of.
Coooooore.

I'm not even that into Frozen, but that was amazing. Bravo!

(Have you seen the "Do you wanna go to Starbucks?" version?)

Lantern Lodge ***

GM Lamplighter wrote:
In my experience as a player, GM, store coordinator, and VO, when a Lodge finally has to remove a player who is actively trying to "break the game", everyone benefits. (Even the person booted, quite frankly - in both cases where we've done it here, they wind up finding a home game of like-minded individuals, and keep playing PFS, without having to deal with all of the newbies and less-adept players that come to a public game.) Literally a win-win (well, except for the guy who got the crappy job of telling them they were no longer welcome.)

Out of curiosity, what were the two removed players doing to disrupt gameplay?

**** Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Seattle aka Gwen Smith

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Digression on communication:

Jiggy wrote:
Sometimes I don't know whether it's genuine ignorance of how clauses work in a sentence, or unconsciously believing the sweeping generalizations and not realizing that it shows through in their words.

A large part of the problem is that writers/speakers always know what they mean, so they aren't aware that their words can be read another way.

In cases like these, it can be as simple as "I had a qualifying phrase that restricted the generalization to a smaller group of people in my head and forgot to write it down" or even "There was a restrictive phrase that limited the group in the original text, but I didn't include it in my quote."

This is why I always recommend hit Preview, then re-read your post with the quoted material in context, and ask: does my response actually (and explicitly) talk about the part I quoted? If the answer is "no", then you probably need to quote a different section or tie your response to the quoted section more clearly.

Also, see if there's there a lot of text between two statements you want to respond to that isn't relevant to you response. If so, then you might want to split the quote and your response into two parts, or remove the irrelevant parts with a "<snip>" or "<...>" note to indicate you edited the quoted section.

Then hit Preview again and read it one more time before you hit Submit.

(Especially in contentious discussions.)

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

I assume Sajan is still going to be allowed as a CORE pregen despite the fact that he uses a Temple Sword.

****

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I believe that most of us appreciate that Core will introduce some new challenges when it comes to scheduling. Personally, I just happen to believe those challenges are worth the pay-off to PFS: Appealing to players and GMs who -- for whatever reason -- prefer not to deal with the complexity of the standard PFS experience.

As for splitting the player base, I think by far the more likely result is that there may not be many [Core] games available in some smaller locations. And that's Ok, because those locations haven't lost anything. This is, after all, an expansion of what we can do for PFS credit. Nothing is being taken away.

Dark Archive **

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Dorothy Lindman wrote:
This is I always recommend hit Preview

>:(

****

Imbicatus wrote:
I assume Sajan is still going to be allowed as a CORE pregen despite the fact that he uses a Temple Sword.

Yes; that was addressed by Mike upthread (which I note so you appreciate that it is official, not because I "blame" you for not digging through 10 pages of posts).

Liberty's Edge Owner-Manager - Tyche's Games

Excellent news! This should be fun for new players and old alike.

Shadow Lodge ****

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Federico Castrovel wrote:


[ooc][i]Do you wanna play a pregen?

Not with red box

Can't Play my Fox
No rules house
Can't play my mouse

I would not play one here or there
I would not play one anywhere

I'd rather drink the hoover dam
I do not like them sir or ma'dam

****

MrNastyButler wrote:
So is Society going to still give the re-rolls for bring various pieces of merchandise to the table? Like shirts and such cause I'd like to see that being done away with.

I don't see any reason that would go away in [Core], but of course that's not an official answer.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Federico Castrovel wrote:


[i]Do you wanna play a pregen?

Not with red box

Can't Play my Fox
No rules house
Can't play my mouse

I would not play one here or there
I would not play one anywhere

I'd rather drink the hoover dam
I do not like them sir or ma'dam

*votes for Federico*

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Captain, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Duiker wrote:
Jeff Merola wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
GM Lamplighter wrote:


If someone has the stated intention to "break the game", I frankly don't care if they're doing it by optimizing, or spotlight stealing, or roleplaying every interaction with every commoner on the way to the VO briefing, or inappropriate behavior at the table. They are destructive to my Lodge, and the attitude needs to change or they are better off gone. You may disagree; that's fine. I base my contention on evidence and personal experience.

Optimizing is not "breaking the game". In fact, in a core only game, optimizing may be required to even survive several scenarios (especially season six) or a module like Risen from the Sands.

If you think that optimizing in a core only game is grounds to be banned from your event, I hope I never play at your table.

He's not saying that optimizing is breaking the game, just that he doesn't care if someone is using optimizing to break the game or breaking the game in another manner, because at that point all that matters is that they're breaking the game. The post that started this was someone explicitly saying they were trying to break the game.

Exactly, the basic chain of conversation was:

"I'm going to break the game"

"People who try to break the game are bad for the game"

50 people: "Why do you hate optimizers?"

You know, people tend to have to answer a lot of questions if they precede their journey to las vegas with the tweet :"I am going to wreck this city :P )

Pretty much the same situation here.

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Captain, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Imbicatus wrote:
I assume Sajan is still going to be allowed as a CORE pregen despite the fact that he uses a Temple Sword.

The loss of that weapon really hurts, but as fair as I know it has not been introduced in the most recent version of the CRB, even though monks are automatically proficient with it (it think the first printing was in the NPC guide).

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Captain, New Zealand—Dunedin aka dinketry

4 people marked this as a favorite.

<music box melody>

Do you wanna play a pregen?
We have several you can play.
See the sign, we put on the door.
Tonight, it's only Core.
Cavaliers another daaaaay!

You're still my dungeon-buddy,
And one fine day,
The gang will ride again once mooooooore.
But for now we've got a pregeeeen,
Made.
Of.
Coooooore.

<music box melody fade out>

I think Paizo needs to adopt this as the theme song for CORE Pathfinder Society.

*****

Lormyr wrote:
Out of curiosity, what were the two removed players doing to disrupt gameplay?

Well, I don't really want to get into specifics, since this is a confidentiality thing. Suffice it to say that both cases were after long and patient attempts to work it out in other ways.

*****

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Imbicatus wrote:


Optimizing is not "breaking the game". In fact, in a core only game, optimizing may be required to even survive several scenarios (especially season six) or a module like Risen from the Sands.

If you think that optimizing in a core only game is grounds to be banned from your event, I hope I never play at your table.

Thanks to those who caught the issue for me, but I wanted to say they got my intent right. Optimizing by itself is not breaking the game. Over-optimization, and then using that as a weapon to break the game, is what I was on about.

P.S. I'd love to have you at my table.

P.P.S. and don't' get me started on "Risen from the Sands"... that's a whole 'nuther discussion! :)

*

GM Lamplighter wrote:
P.P.S. and don't' get me started on "Risen from the Sands"... that's a whole 'nuther discussion! :)

See I think of risen from the sands as a great adventure which is well designed. It's tough but fair.

*****

derail:
Agree, but we had to use the ACG pregens for it on Free RPG Day, two of which couldn't survive the first encounter. With real PFS characters, I agree, but when it was out and new players came up, we had to give them pre-gens we knew would die.

Sovereign Court ****

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I get that Paizo has to keep publishing products to stay in business, but I really don't like the creep the game has seen. New options doesn't expand variability; it just introduces a treadmill of a fairly static number of ever more powerful optimized builds/munchkin templates.

A thousand times yes for the option of a "Core Only" reset.

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