The Paizo booth line

The lines are long but the crowd looks happy!

I'm 5th or 6th from the left

I want to be OK with closing off your booth and creating the line system. I want to be OK with standing in a line for 10 minutes, so I can stand in another line for 15 minutes, so I can get into your booth to buy stuff, only to stand in a pay line for 15 minutes. I imagine this has to do with managing the hordes of us in the booth and I'm sure it will cut down on theft and kept inventory around through Sunday, but...

...it just didn't FEEL good. I thought the energy and friendliness of your booth from the past 10 years was absolutely GONE this year. I ended up buying nothing from you when I was ready to spend $100 there. I ended up buying my PACG playmat directly from Ultra-pro because I could just walk up, ask for it, and pay for it.

I know this is OK for Fantasy Flight to do and it might be just the way things have to be, but I am still bummed to see this change...

I want to be OK with closing off your booth and creating the line system. I want to be OK with standing in a line for 10 minutes, so I can stand in another line for 15 minutes, so I can get into your booth to buy stuff, only to stand in a pay line for 15 minutes. I imagine this has to do with managing the hordes of us in the booth and I'm sure it will cut down on theft and kept inventory around through Sunday, but...

...it just didn't FEEL good. I thought the energy and friendliness of your booth from the past 10 years was absolutely GONE this year. I ended up buying nothing from you when I was ready to spend $100 there. I ended up buying my PACG playmat directly from Ultra-pro because I could just walk up, ask for it, and pay for it.

I know this is OK for Fantasy Flight to do and it might be just the way things have to be, but I am still bummed to see this change...

We aren't exactly happy about doing this either. However, because of the size of the crowds and the lines involved, GenCon required us to queue our line outside the hall so it wasn't disruptive to other vendors. We really had no options in the matter other than trying to make it as painless as we could.

Lisa

I wanted to pickup my subscription but wasn't able to devote the time needed for waiting in line with everyone else dropping by for the card game... I'm not sure how big of the crowd in line represents subscribers; but from a loyal customer's point of view (I've been subscribing since day one save a six month lapse) it would be amazing if there was an 'express' lane for subscribers, or something that made is simpler (in my case, possible) for pickup my books.

If I had known how bad the lines could have possibly been, I may have just had the subscription shipped. Now I will need to wait another 2-3 weeks for the books.

I'd ask you please consider a subscriber pickup line; if the hall makes that too difficulty perhaps a stockpile and pickup in Sagamore near HQ?

In the mean time; I will go back to watching my mailbox.

Thanks!

I think it was brought up during the after-action report of VO's after the Con but I would like to stress the fact that as bad as it was for everyone, it was even worse for Tier 1 VO's who were running 8 slots and wanting to volunteer as much as possible for the slots we weren't slotted for having to stand in that...those lines. Even wimpy NAVY Seals (tongue in cheek) get to cut to the head of the chow line when waiting to go on missions. Pathfinders queued to go on EIGHT missions deserve no less...

I think it was brought up during the after-action report of VO's after the Con but I would like to stress the fact that as bad as it was for everyone, it was even worse for Tier 1 VO's who were running 8 slots and wanting to volunteer as much as possible for the slots we weren't slotted for having to stand in that...those lines. Even wimpy NAVY Seals (tongue in cheek) get to cut to the head of the chow line when waiting to go on missions. Pathfinders queued to go on EIGHT missions deserve no less...

Wow... yeah; if you are running 8 slots of Pathfinder and have a monthly subscription? Someone should deliver that to your table. There has to be a way to figure out how.... sign for it, whatever.

Poet22 wrote:

I want to be OK with closing off your booth and creating the line system. I want to be OK with standing in a line for 10 minutes, so I can stand in another line for 15 minutes, so I can get into your booth to buy stuff, only to stand in a pay line for 15 minutes. I imagine this has to do with managing the hordes of us in the booth and I'm sure it will cut down on theft and kept inventory around through Sunday, but...

...it just didn't FEEL good. I thought the energy and friendliness of your booth from the past 10 years was absolutely GONE this year. I ended up buying nothing from you when I was ready to spend $100 there. I ended up buying my PACG playmat directly from Ultra-pro because I could just walk up, ask for it, and pay for it.

I know this is OK for Fantasy Flight to do and it might be just the way things have to be, but I am still bummed to see this change...

We aren't exactly happy about doing this either. However, because of the size of the crowds and the lines involved, GenCon required us to queue our line outside the hall so it wasn't disruptive to other vendors. We really had no options in the matter other than trying to make it as painless as we could.

Lisa

Not sure if it's possible for next year but lots of people just wanted the ACG, if there could be a seperate line for people who just wanted to buy this product I think all customers overall would have been happier. The main line would be shorter and those who just wanted that one product wouldn't have to wait in line but could be in a faster moving line.

Not sure if it's possible for next year but lots of people just wanted the ACG, if there could be a seperate line for people who just wanted to buy this product I think all customers overall would have been happier. The main line would be shorter and those who just wanted that one product wouldn't have to wait in line but could be in a faster moving line.

I agree with the point about the Tier One GMs needing maps but not about this one or the subscriber line suggestions. How many people went into the booth to get that one item, and ended up checking out with half a dozen other purchases? I sure know I did, and I doubt Paizo wants to give up on "opportunity buys" once we are in the booth. It doesn't make sense from a business perspective.

I went when it was lined up around the corner and down a second hall and it still only took 20 minutes to get in, which was much less than I feared.

We've had many, many ideas on how to wrassle our lines for next year, and I'm sure that we'll come up with something that will be fair and amicable for everybody. :)

I WANTED to go in and spend money, but I couldn't justify the waiting around. My GenCon time is very limited!

Please consider making it an event you can buy tickets for. I'd rather pay for a guaranteed chance to enter the booth than wait for an unknown period of time.

If people are uncomfortable with paying to get in, make the ticket serve as a coupon good for the cost of the ticket; you could pay $2 for a ticket to the Paizo Booth 'event' at a specific time, then you hand in the ticket at the cash register, good for $2 off your purchase.

I thought the line moved pretty quick. Advantage was being able to browse around the booth while having a little bit of elbow room.

As someone who helped organize and shepherd that line for the better part of several hours, here's my two cents on the subject...

First and foremost, as Lisa indicated, lining up outside the dealer's hall was something GenCon dictated, not something Paizo arbitrarily decided to do on its own. The past two years, the line on Day 1 (and Day 2) was just as long. The main problem was that everyone jammed the entire booth, grabbed a bunch of product, and then lined up for the checkout line...which, ultimately, took them completely outside the booth area and into the red carpeted area which attendees are supposed to use to navigate between other booths. With that kind of overflow, Paizo was basically restricting the flow of foot traffic around a big portion of the hall, while also creating a potential fire hazard. Thus, that's why GenCon dictated something different had to be done. And, the best way for removing that mass of bodies from the immediate area surrounding the Paizo booth was to simply line them up outside the hall and count them in as room became available to let them through.

That brings me to a different point. In the past, the booth was always so jam-packed that you were shouldering your way through people just to browse the wares, select the products you wanted to purchase, and, in some cases, to have a conversation with the Paizo staffers. This year, by lining people up in the hall outside, it immediately brought the traffic flow and overcrowdedness under control. You actually had room to freely check out every product line, select your purchases, and talk with any of the Paizo staffers. I had a number of people tell me later (while I was inside the booth), that they really appreciated the elbow room for moving about. It was quieter, cooler, less crowded, and a better overall shopping experience for them. I also had many of the GenCon volunteers...not just the ones who watch the doors to check badges, but the actual GenCon organizers who wrangle those massive crowds outside the doors at 10AM every morning...tell me they really appreciated how capably, responsibly, and professionally Paizo was handling traffic management to their booth. As much as some people complained about the line, it was universally praised by those who understood the logistical challenge presented by the crush of people trying to get into the booth.

In addition, I think a lot of folks who took exception to the line kept forgetting one very important thing. They were going to wait in a long line regardless. That's because the cashier stations (except for the last day) were at capacity the entire time. They literally couldn't take people's money fast enough. Thus, even if everyone had been allowed to overren the booth and grab what they wanted to buy, they were still going to have to line up for the checkout line. The only difference was they were going to be standing in a much more crowded area, a much hotter, louder environment, and all while holding a bunch of stuff in their hands for pretty much the same total amount of time. They'd just be spending it inside the booth area rather than outside in the much cooler hall. In fact, if people had longer memories they'd realize that was the exact same scenario over the past couple of years. I used to wrangle the long line that wrapped around the wall inside the dealer's hall, and people waited just as long to buy product regardless of where they lined up. The only difference was they felt better about it, because they had the product in their hands, and could therefore feel relieved that they hadn't "missed out" because a product sold out faster than they could grab it.

Now, none of that is to say there can't be improvements in the line management situation. For instance, having a quicker way for picking up subscriptions would be nice, and it would also give the additional benefit of reducing the number of people in the regular line if that could be handled elsewhere. Even if just a single cashier line was designated to process subscriptions, that might move things faster for some people. But, that said, the problem with that comes when those same people also want to buy other stuff that's not in their subscription (i.e., an impulse buy). At that point, you've got a regular customer who just happens to be picking up a subscription in addition to whatever else they've decided to buy. And, it's unfair to let that person go ahead of someone else who's just making a purchase without a subscription. The only way to keep that equitable would be to designate an area where you only pick up subscriptions. And, if you wanted to buy something else, you'd have to get back in line with everyone else. If that happens, I expect there'll be an additional outcry as folks complain about having to spend time in two lines just to get all the stuff they want. And so on...

So, there's no silver bullet here. Paizo and Pathfinder's popularity is at an all-time high. That's a good problem to have. Yet, everyone rushing the booth on the very first day creates this huge backlog regardless of where they line up (i.e., outside the hall before being allowed in the booth or inside the hall in a massive checkout line that impedes traffic). Timing is basically everything. For instance, the worst day was Thursday. While wrangling the line in the early morning, the wait times climbed as high as an hour just to get into the booth. However, around lunch-time, the wait time dropped to 10 minutes or less. Savvy shoppers took advantage of that. On Friday, the line was instituted again. Wait times were reasonably low in the early going, but started climbing to 30 minutes fairly quickly and stayed there for awhile. It got better at lunch-time again as well as the late afternoon before the dealer's hall closed. I thought Saturday was going to be worse (because more people show up at the convention when the work week is done), but it was actually very manageable. By lunch-time there was no line to manage. The ropes came down. And folks were allowed free run of the booth again. Unfortunately, a few of the products people were most interested in buying had already sold out. That created a whole other wave of disappointment. Those who refused to stand in line the first couple of days lost out to those who did.

So, what more can be done to aid this situation next year? I still think there's way more value in having the line outside than creating traffic jams inside. Thus, I expect the line management next year to take the same approach. To help alleviate fears of missing out on product if you don't stand in the massive line, the warehouse guys will need to figure out a way to ship/re-stock the more popular products after the first couple of days. Secondly, I think the Paizo line needs to be advertised very early in advance of the show. Hopefully, most folks will know what to expect next year, but more communication might help things. Hopefully, this rundown here will help that, too...at least with the forum regulars. Thirdly, although the Paizo booth grew in size this year (to accommodate more attendees), it might require even further room to help the line move faster. That'll only work if more cashier stations can be included to keep up with the increased traffic, though. In the past, Paizo had also instituted a "get out of line by paying cash" operation where Lisa and others would go down the line to more quickly move things along. That could be done during the busiest times again and that might get more people out of the booth so the lines (both inside and outside) can move more quickly. Lastly, I already recommended one other enhancement to the Paizo line operation. If the same checkerboard tiles can be used outside the dealer's hall to create a surface on which the Paizo customers can line up, it would more clearly designate what the line was for (i.e., I had a LOT of confused people come up and ask me about the long line)...and, it would also create a more cushioned surface for folks standing in line for a long time (including those of us watching over it).

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the subject. I thought the line outside the dealer's hall was the best way Paizo had available to manage the situation. There'll be lots of lessons learned from it, but it'll likely be back next year. Hopefully, everyone can continue the same good spirit the Paizo community is famous for in supporting their efforts.

But that's just my two cents,
--Neil

Interesting perspective Neil. I had just kind of assumed the line was at least two hours or more. Perhaps some signs indicating that it moves faster than you might think, like the art show had, would be useful.

I was in during early access so the only real issue I had was going through twice - when I came through at 9:05 there were no character add-on decks or class decks for the card game, and then I saw them being put up at about 9:50 and hopped into checkout again after grabbing them. The checkout line took a while - nearly 40 minutes. I felt bad for my poor girlfriend who I dumped all my other stuff on to hold while we waited.

I do know that she refused to wait in the "mega line" and so she didn't get into the booth until the open times on Saturday, but that was okay for her.

With the way the checkouts were always flooded, perhaps it might be worth considering extra checkout stations?

The line was well-managed and did move fast. However, I will not pick-up my subscription items at GenCon ever again. Please try to get my subscription items to me in Tuesday's home delivery, since we depart at 0-dark-30 on Wednesday for the long trek to Indianapolis.

I will still visit the Paizo booth to make purchases, but probably not until Sunday.

… With the way the checkouts were always flooded, perhaps it might be worth considering extra checkout stations?

They added an extra station Saturday morning. I'm not sure what hoops they had to go through to set it up (if they had to purchase one, power & internet setup, etc).

As someone who waited in line, I have to agree with Neil.

I've been to the Paizo booth for the last several GenCons. It's traditionally been a giant mess getting items and checking out, due to the line flooding the booth.

Waiting in line wasn't my favorite activity of the day, but it made the time in the booth one of the best parts of the day. You could walk around, find products, maybe even have a conversation with people, and leisurely check out rather than fighting the mob.

If it can be made better, great, but I felt like it was totally worth it.

Cheers!
Landon

Yup, the line moved quickly, and I got to talk with some cool people for a bit.

Evil Neil's comments are all good.

However, I think a mechanism also needs to be put in place for the volunteers to move through a little more quickly, or at least make sure they don't miss out on sold-out products.

One interesting element Jason Bulmahn added was his "Crit the Line!" schtick. He basically walked down the line with a purple Paizo D20. The first person to roll a natural-20 would be allowed to quit the line and he'd personally escort them into the booth. It made for a lot of smiles and, on two different occasions, he literally had people who were last in line roll a crit. And no one begrudged them their success, either, because all the people in line were actually quite cool and understanding. Again, the level of community support and camaraderie among the Paizo fanbase is light-years ahead of most companies.

They added an extra station Saturday morning. I'm not sure what hoops they had to go through to set it up (if they had to purchase one, power & internet setup, etc).

They pulled that off with a laptop computer and an internet connection to the webstore, but they could only process credit transactions at that station. Still, every little bit helped them keep that checkout line moving. Of course, it moved faster at some times than others, but that was mainly because of the volume of each purchase. If someone showed up with a massive collection of products (either as a new purchase or as part of their subscription pickup), it slowed things down. But, when you had folks going through with just an item or two, the checkout line moved at a really fast clip with those four stations going.

Interesting perspective Neil. I had just kind of assumed the line was at least two hours or more. Perhaps some signs indicating that it moves faster than you might think, like the art show had, would be useful.

I know whenever I was there, I did my absolute best to keep folks informed of the wait times. A lot of them asked when they were directed my way by the guys manning the ropes at the booth. So, everytime I counted more people through, I'd ask the person I stopped (i.e., at the front of the line) how long they had waited so far. I'd then use that time to set the expectations of anyone else who asked. I even got help from others who were deeper in the line. All of them would give advice on how long they had waited so far...or that the line was moving at a pretty good clip. It was only that first day that the crush caused the line to pile up. And, even then, the wait times didn't get too far above one hour. Certainly never in the two-hour range...or, at least, not that I ever heard from anyone.

Is Paizo allowed to sell material in the Area where PFS is played?

Is Paizo allowed to sell material in the Area where PFS is played?

I'm not sure they could pull that off. Part of the reason everything is sold in the dealer's room is so GenCon can lock all that merchandise up every evening for all of the exhibitors. And, with gaming going on almost around the clock in the PFS area, they wouldn't be able to keep to the same schedule for the upstairs ballroom...which means, Paizo would have to lug all the merchandise they intended to sell upstairs and across the entire convention center each and every day, once in the morning and again in the evening, to ensure it was secured at all times. And that's not even taking into consideration whether or not GenCon and the convention center can provide the same system access for payment processing up there.

Yeah it would really depend on what gencon allowed but also what the sales metrics of Paizo said. Every gencon you get a new rule book. This year you had ACG. Would be feasible to sell only the new rule book in the PFS room (possibly cash only) as my completely uneducated guess that the PFS group would want access to the new material anyways.

There's a lot of extra things that need to happen for us to sell stuff, from security for the money (the primary reason we didn't want to do the "Pay cash in line and we'll walk around with thousands of dollars in a grocery bag in a crowded hall" tactic) to making sure that our cashiers are properly trained and have background checks and more to be legal for running credit card numbers to maintaining stock levels and so on. It's not a simple matter of simply setting up a booth in the PFS area... I'm not even sure it's allowed by Gen Con to do something like that, but keep in mind that what I don't know about Gen Con could fill Jandelay.

The only thing that sucked was you sold out of some items on Saturday and it was the only day I was able to be there. So, now i have to buy them from a local store or get them on pdf. I did get to meet Neil Spicer which was cool! I nicked the last Iron Gods hardcopy on Saturday. Wish I had been there 20 minutes or so earlier I could have nicked a copy of the ACG, too.

I'll give James (and others) a bonus to their Knowledge (convention logistics) check here.

• Adding a fourth register definitely helped, but it wasn't just a simple plug-in and go, as it required additional internet access fees through convention services. Even with a fourth cashier, we still couldn't process people fast enough (we were throttling our connection quite often), and then there was the issue of rearranging the schedule to accommodate having a fourth cashier.
  
• As has been explained previously, we had to do something about our lines, both regarding safety as well as being a good neighbor in the vendor hall.
  
• Sales can only be done in the dealer hall. Even if there were some magical means to have a new register location blessed by convention staff and set up appropriately, there's the issue of stocking said station.
  
• While walking the lines last year and having people pay cash certainly moved lines faster, it's an absolute nightmare regarding inventory levels and reconciliation—we had no way of knowing what we had left, or who was a subscriber, or how many to hold back for subscriber pickup, or anything. No no no no. It makes Baby Aroden cry.
  
• One of the things that helped at PaizoCon was scanning your badge and pulling up your Paizo.com account right there. I'd like to have something like that for next year, as it would make it that much faster to handle customers in line, but it would require some sort of additional download (like the PFS card downloads) in order to do so.
  
• I absolutely want to make it easier for our hard-working volunteers to use their well-earned store credit at the store.
  

Along with Liz, I was one of the pairs of boots on the floor behind the registers the entire time the dealer hall was open.

First, I'd like to say that Neil hits the nail on the head perfectly (as usual) in his post. Those are exactly the reasons that the lines were handled the way they were.

As Liz intimated, it was not an easy thing to add a fourth register. If anyone here came to it, you'll remember that it was crammed into a corner, was being run off my personal laptop, and I was hand-keying credit cards as the scanners are all for Mac. And that's just the internal logistics of it, beyond the logistics of going through convention support to get that activated.

With that said, it was absolutely something we needed to do. It was not at all fair to you, the fans, to have to wait in those lines for as long as you were on Thursday. The fourth register really helped. On Friday, I had reports of 2 hour lines or longer. On Thursday, I didn't hear anything longer than half an hour (which is still longer than I'd like, but not quite as ridiculous).

I'm going to push for more registers and register support next year, as that's truly our bottleneck. On Thursday and Friday, we literally never stopped, and had to turn people away at the end of the day. I don't find that acceptable as a fan or as a business person.

I guess I should have been more specific. I was there on Saturday. Spent 10 minutes in the outside chatting with Ryan, and ten minutes in the check out line chatting with Eric and whoever else was around.

I can't complain at all about that. 2 hours would have been nuts.

One more suggestion then. I was one of the many in-line to buy maps needed for 8 slots. Is it possible to bring maps to the VO dinner on Wednesday night so that we can buy them? I went on vacation a week and a half before GENCON started and wasn't able to select all the maps I needed due to late releases. I wouldn't have fretted the lines so much if my maps were already secure in the room and I was on "browse" time.

Edenwaith: getting the volunteers through the line faster is something that I will be bringing up in the post-GenCon debrief.

Edenwaith: getting the volunteers through the line faster is something that I will be bringing up in the post-GenCon debrief.

I would like this as well. Thanks for considering it.

Is there any way to increase the number of people checking out the customers. Even two more would help the line. Can the curtained area be shrunk (not eliminated)and the area be used for more checkers. Can more space reasonably maintained. Can some of the product for restock be held in an area close by and brought in when sold tally's get high and stock low? Can the guys signing autographs be relocated to the signature area at Gencon or in space nearby freeing that space for more checkers? Just some thoughts from someone who has had to manage large lines a few times in the past.

I dislike waiting, I dislike queues and I really dislike crowds. But as a Paizo fan from New Zealand I still hope I get to wait in a line like that at Gencon (or perhaps Paizocon!) one day. :D

Is there any way to increase the number of people checking out the customers. Even two more would help the line.

We will do that.

Can the curtained area be shrunk (not eliminated)and the area be used for more checkers. Can more space reasonably maintained. Can some of the product for restock be held in an area close by and brought in when sold tally's get high and stock low?

The curtained area is where we keep our stock for the day. Our additional stock (and that of other companies) is held in a holding area behind the scenes. We are not generally allowed to move stock from that area onto the floor during show hours, so the curtained area needs to hold all of the additional stock we think we might sell that day. In short, it can't be reduced.

Can the guys signing autographs be relocated to the signature area at Gencon or in space nearby freeing that space for more checkers?

Gen Con exhibition space now sells out so quickly that Gen Con is putting up maximum size limits for booths. This year, we were just shy of our maximum, and next year, we'll be at the maximum (the difference being that we are annexing the small booth that was adjacent to the card game demo area). So basically, the spot they're in is where we need them to be.

In order to accommodate more cashiers, we will likely have to reduce some of the wall display space.

Also, we have been told that Gen Con will likely be asking several other large companies to do line management in the same fashion as us next year.

I tried the line 3 times, being forced to quit the first two because of events I wanted to participate in. I was finally able to get in on Saturday.

I have to say, I know why Paizo had to handle the line that way. I also know (from talking to multiple vendors) that ICC was being particularly persnicketty this year with how they wanted people to handle their booths (and from a few rumors I heard on Sunday, it might be even more annoying next year); so kudos to you guys for handling it the way you did.

As for the whole experience...yes, the line may have been annoying, but:
1.I met new people while waiting in line, with whom I had very entertaining conversations about gaming.
2. I got a chance to just people watch, as the gen con hordes came and went. It actually gave me an excuse to watch the cosplays!
3. When I finally made it in, I got to talk to Lisa and Chris and Stephen and Erik and James and an especially awesome Paizo employee who swapped my goblin for a red horned demon (who shall rename nameless in case this might get 'em in trouble lolz) and it was just FREKIN' AWESOME AND PERFECT.

So a big applause to you guys. Paizo has, for 2 years now, been the highlight of my Gen Con experience.