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Mythic Adventures Playtest

Wednesday, November 14, 2012


Welcome to the long-awaited playtest of Mythic Adventures. This exciting book, due out in August 2013, gives you the chance to play a hero that is a cut above the ordinary sellsword, more powerful than your average hedge wizard, and able to take on challenges far beyond those of his ordinary contemporaries. Like Hercules and Achilles, these heroes inspire legends with their every deed, facing horrible foes and taking on dangerous quests that most would consider impossible. This playtest is a sample of the rules, giving you all the tools you need to run a mythic game or two right now, as well as the chance to tell us what works and what needs work.

Mythic Adventures is more than an ordinary sourcebook. It offers players and GMs a new way to play the Pathfinder RPG, from the humble beginnings of 1st level, to the lofty realms of power of 20th. You can use these rules to run a campaign where the players are mythic from the first session just as easily as you can use them to run a campaign where they are only mythic for a single game. The mythic rules can be used how you want, at any point in the campaign.

Put simply, the mythic rules allow characters (and monsters) to break some of the fundamental rules of the game. They allow a character to cheat death, to change the outcome of die rolls, and even to act twice in one turn. While mythic characters do get some statistical bonuses to denote their raw potential, much of their power comes from what they can do that others cannot, at least without having quite a few more levels. How many levels is the big question. This is where you come in.

The playtest of these rules is important to help us balance the overall system. These powers and abilities add a lot to the capabilities of characters and monsters, and it’s important to see how much this addition affects the overall power balance of the game. We need you to use these rules in your game, even if for just one or two sessions, and to give us your impression as to how the rules affect the game. While your initial impression from just reading the rules is valuable, actual play experience is by far more useful to our process. When playtesting the rules, please keep the following points in mind.

  • All playtest feedback should be posted to the following Mythic Adventures Playtest forums: General Discussion, Player Feedback, GM Feedback, Adventure Feedback.
  • Please check the forum for any similar topics before posting, and add to an existing thread whenever possible.
  • Please try to read the entire document before posting. You may find that your question is answered in a later section of the rules.
  • Remember, we would prefer actual playtest feedback. Use the rules, don’t just imagine how they might work.
  • Be civil! Remember that everyone on the forum is here for the same goal, to make a better game. Remember that the experience of others may be different from your own and starting an argument over a differing viewpoint does no service to the playtest. Posters who violate these guidelines will find themselves given a timeout and have offending threads locked.
  • Have fun. These rules are designed to add an extra edge of excitement to your game, allowing you to throw over-the-top situations at your characters. Share your stories with us and your fellow playtesters.

Now get out there, grab the document, give it a read, and play! I am looking forward to reading your thoughts, comments, and criticisms about these rules. The playtest will run from now until noon (PST) on Monday, January 14th. See you on the boards.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Playtest
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Marathon Voter 2013

31 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Nifty!

A few weeks ago, Sean posted this blogpost by Monte Cook about what good playtesting feedback is. People really interested in playtesting this should give it a look over and take it to heart.

I’m not the end-all-be-all for what Paizo wants from this, but here are my thoughts on the topic, as well as what I took away from the above blog post from Monte.


  • You are not the designer. In this case, Jason is.
  • Ignore typos and grammatical errors. That’s not what they want to playtest. They want you to test the rules.
  • Give feedback, not opinions. If you don’t like the idea of mythic gameplay, then don’t just say that. It’s not too helpful as that ship has sailed long ago.
  • You’re still not the designer. Jason still is the designer. That’s his job.
  • Don’t make houserules for it and then give feedback with those rules influencing your perceptions. Think of it like a recipe site. You go there to find a recipe, and you see a 1 star review for a pasta recipe you’re looking at. The review states that the cook substituted ice cream for butter, and marmite for pesto sauce. Surprisingly, the cook found the recipe to be absolutely horrible. But this review isn’t helpful. It’s helpful for a pasta recipe that includes ice cream instead of butter and marmite instead of pesto sauce. But that’s not the recipe they were reviewing. At all. The recipe they were reviewing had butter and pesto.
  • Play the game, see what happens. A lot of problems seem like they’ll exist in pure theorycrafting, but don’t really show up in actual play. Keep this in mind.
  • If you can, try to playtest multiple different power-levels of the game. How mythic rules work out could be a lot different between a group consisting of synthesist god-tank-pouncers, zen archers, optimized God wizards, and AM BARBARIAN and a group consisting of a sword and board paladin, a rogue rapier-duelist, a cleric of healing and love, and a sorcerer focusing on illusions.
  • Core! Core is great because it sets the base-line level of power. It’s fine if you play some mythic tengu with 5 natural attacks at first level or some aasimar that through various rules hoops has some feats meant for tieflings, but if you find that with mythic rules it’s making a completely ridiculous character, consider how much of that is due to the mythic rules versus the non-core rules. In fact, keep that in mind with core rules as well.
  • I believe that the default assumption in the game is 15 point buy with the core races and the balanced option for wealth by level. Testing at this point is a great way to test. From what we’ve heard, mythic abilities are tied to your main ability stat modifiers of the path you’re in. This means that higher point buys or generous dice rolling methods will allow for more mythic abilities, which could skew what you’re seeing quite a bit.

Oh yea, and have fun :)

Spoiler:
No, I didn't spend any time before the blog thinking about this. I just type at a mythic rate.

Star Voter 2013

Whoohoo


Woohoo indeed!

Nothing much can pry me away from coding, but this certainly is one of them!


Pathfinder Campaign Setting Subscriber

Good summary, Cheapy. Can't wait to help out with the playtesting process!

Liberty's Edge

Squeal! I finally get to play with these rules. I'm going to use them in my ongoing campaigns. One has 5-6 players and the other is being done to keep power levels up for when she is able to rejoin the main group.

I can't wait to see how this works.

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

19 people marked this as a favorite.

Thanks Cheapy.. now if I can just get everyone to read and follow that advice.

Jason


Time to dig in!


I see that everyone is downloading it now? :|

Silver Crusade Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber

Kyra y u no hav any mythic hat?

Grabbing this tonight!

Dark Archive

Excellent! The wait has ended, it's time to play at being a god.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Hmmm so this Jason Bulmahn fellow is the designer. I'm not sure I'm getting it, but in my houseruled game where we've already playtested these rules and given amazingly bad feedback about how nothing works because we've shattered the system, the Designer is a T-Rex.

Liberty's Edge

That Kyra art looks sweet! Can't wait to see that in full color.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Omg so excited!


Awesome! Can't wait to try these out.

Cheapy, thanks for the advice and playtest link! Giving that a read through before the Mythic ruleset. One nitpick...I'd assume a 20 pt build...since these are supposed to be the likes of Achilles and Hercules :)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Sorry, must say it: Ezren becames Muscle Wizard!

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

2 people marked this as a favorite.

You can build using whatever point buy you feel is appropriate. I would not mind hearing feedback about different point buy levels. After all, if everyone in the world is 15 pt, then the mythic heroes should be too. Giving them 5 over other adventures is an added benefit that is not part of the core assumptions of the Mythic Rules.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Cheapy wrote:

Nifty!

A few weeks ago, Sean posted this blogpost by Monte Cook about what good playtesting feedback is. People really interested in playtesting this should give it a look over and take it to heart.

I’m not the end-all-be-all for what Paizo wants from this, but here are my thoughts on the topic, as well as what I took away from the above blog post from Monte.

[...]

Very good advice! :-)

Cheapy wrote:
I believe that the default assumption in the game is 15 point buy with the core races and the balanced option for wealth by level. Testing at this point is a great way to test. From what we’ve heard, mythic abilities are tied to your main ability stat modifiers of the path you’re in. This means that higher point buys or generous dice rolling methods will allow for more mythic abilities, which could skew what you’re seeing quite a bit.

Is that actually the case? The Pathfinder Society has characters with 20 point buy and the iconic characters in NPC Codex are also built with 20 point buy.


Good point Jason! I withdraw my 20 pt assumption!


Interestingly enough, I have several houserule/homebrew elements in my games that resemble several featured items in this playtest...

I probably will not be able to participate in this playtest as such anyway, since I'm not currently DMing. Looks like an interesting system though! Have fun everyone! :)

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Foghammer wrote:


I probably will not be able to participate in this playtest as such anyway, since I'm not currently DMing. Looks like an interesting system though!

You don't have to run a campaign to contribute A LOT, Foghammer. If someone does show up for the game, or the GM just needs a break, running a combat encounter between a mythic creature and some mythic characters can contribute more than you realize.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Something I've been wondering ever since Mythic was announced, what about classes that don't have any Mythic Path that suit them? Now I get Archmage is for arcane, Hierophant is for divine and Champion for combat classes but what about the Alchemist? He's not arcane, he's not divine, he's not a fighter and he's not necessarily much of a trickster.

I get that some classes got more than one obvious choices (Paladin, at first glance, for example works fine with Champion, Guardian or even potentially Hierophant). Heck I could see a Magus as a Champion, but I'm really left to wonder what an Alchemist could pick. Again, I have only glanced at the book so maybe I missed something. If I did, I apologize.

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

Skritz,

We have included a number of options in the Trickster that would suit the alchemist quite well actually. This was something I kept in mind when doing a lot of the initial design. Also note that these are not all of the path abilities that will be included in the final book. I will be ensuring that every class has at least a few options when it comes to selecting a path.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing


I've been reading the document and I have to say that I'm very impressed with what I'm seeing so far. You guys did a great job of covering everything. Also, I'm really looking forward to casting my first Mythic Meteor Swarm. :D

I'm glad to see that 'Multiclass' Mythic is very simple. You just pick up the Dual Path mythic feat, you gain the ability of that second path, and then you can choose options from both. You don't have to worry about losing your 'capstone' from your first path. This will be perfect for the character that I'm currently running :D

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

My God, Beyond the Doomsday Door, Innersea bestiary, and now this all hitting my dash in 4 hours of each other?! Paizo my god I don't know if I can handle this much awesome in an 8 hour stream. God doing this homework has become nearly impossible.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

That mythic vampire template in there just screams Count Strahd von Zarovich to me.

grins evilly, taps fingers together


Just downloaded, and will have to scale up the short adventure at the end to four level 10 PCs, but that just fits with my current campaign.

My guys are just starting the last "dungeon" for Chapter 3 of Kingmaker (Vordaki tomb) and when they come out, I will have them pass thru a village on the way back to their capital city and run the adventure.

Now, this won't happen till mid-December, as we alternate two campaigns on Monday nights, but this is going to be so cool !!

-- david
papa.drb

Sovereign Court

4 people marked this as a favorite.

I have read the entire document, and i have been laughing like a maniac through most of it. This is amazing. It is 10 times more amazing than i thought it would be. And so much BETTER then 3.0 epic rules.


I cannot wait to get home to look at these new rules. I probably won't get a proper playtest done until this weekend though

Star Voter 2013

4 hours till I can read this because I can't unzip on my phone

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

Hama, you are one fast reader, but I am glad you like what you see. This has been one or the more challenging design projects I have undertaken in the line.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Jason Bulmahn, I just found the Mythic Vampire template. You magnificent bastard.

Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

First impression: Awesome.

Let's see how she drives :)

Cheers!
Landon


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Obviously I've yet to playtest this, but reading it? It's effing amazing. I need to buy Jason a beer!

Dedicated Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Talonhawke wrote:
4 hours till I can read this because I can't unzip on my phone

I'm in the same Mythic boat Talonhawke. Damn you smartphone. Driver, get this train to a computer!

Shadow Lodge Star Voter 2013

Barely read any of the archmage abilities so far(there have been distractions), but already... wow, just wow.

Sovereign Court

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

Hama, you are one fast reader, but I am glad you like what you see. This has been one or the more challenging design projects I have undertaken in the line.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

If only i could read textbooks at the same rate and attention, where would i be now.

Seriously, i don't think i have any complaints after the first reading. I might have to read it again, more in-depth for that.


Fascinated with the monsters already (started with them, as a DM more than a player) and looking forward to a full read through of this document and a chance at running playtests for it. Probably mostly combats to start, putting PCs of various levels and mythic abilities against non-mythic and mythic monsters of varying CR and MR's and seeing what happens, but if I have time I'd enjoy running a short adventure too.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Tales Subscriber

will there be mythic paths for races as well?


The thing I like best about it so far is ease of use. Also this feels very pathfinder to me... in that each path isn't any harder to grasp than say having a new list of ranger tricks.

Also the fact that the players need to accomplish heroic tasks to increase their myths? Inspired.

Cheers to Paizo. Now when I get my Bones figurines in March I will be able to actually throw my players against the Cthulhu fig!

Sovereign Court

Drowblade wrote:
will there be mythic paths for races as well?

I second this. Maybe you pick a path and you can choose from racial path traits each time you tier up, instead of your path trait?


Why do I get the feeling that as soon as this product is out the door (maybe before that), they'll be working on their first Mythic Adventure Path?

Marathon Voter 2013

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Probably because they are? Wrath of the Righteous will be using Mythic Rules, and it's expected to start in January of '14.


Jason Bulmahn wrote:

Skritz,

We have included a number of options in the Trickster that would suit the alchemist quite well actually. This was something I kept in mind when doing a lot of the initial design. Also note that these are not all of the path abilities that will be included in the final book. I will be ensuring that every class has at least a few options when it comes to selecting a path.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

I am heartened to see this (the every class has at least a few options), as hopefully it means that the monk isn't an after thought with regards to mythic abilities.

While several of the all purpose hitting things (of the Champion) or not taking damage (of the Guardian) abilities would apply very nicely to monks in general, it would warm my heart to see mythic abilities of a more ki-based or mystic bent that monks could take.

prototype00


1 person marked this as a favorite.

If I'm reading this correctly (yes, I have read it), this doesn't specifically address level 20+ play. No surprise there, but that's what I was hoping for when I first saw the name of the book.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

Cheapy wrote:
Probably because they are? Wrath of the Righteous will be using Mythic Rules, and it's expected to start in January of '14.

Except I think Wrath is the second half (late summer) AP of 2013.

We have Shattered Star now..
Reign of Winter in February 2013
And Wrath of the Righteous following that...

Sovereign Court

CapnBeav wrote:
If I'm reading this correctly (yes, I have read it), this doesn't specifically address level 20+ play. No surprise there, but that's what I was hoping for when I first saw the name of the book.

Honestly, with these rules, there is no need for that.

Marathon Voter 2013

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If I recall correctly, they didn't call it "epic" partially to not give the connotations that players coming from 3.5 have when they hear that word. Plus, you can still keep on gaining more tiers after level 20. Get to level 20, and start adding tiers. I think that'd work out fairly well, but I haven't read the whole thing yet.

Paizo Employee Editor-in-Chief

8 people marked this as a favorite.
Starsunder wrote:
Jason Bulmahn, I just found the Mythic Vampire template. You magnificent bastard.

Ha! That's the one I did ('cause, duh, obviously). Fans of non-sparkling vampires should find a few winks in there. ;)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I'd REALLY love to see playtest results from players who use 20th level characters with various amounts of mythic tiers.

The idea is that once you hit 20th, that can act as one of the gateways into mythic level play—In theory, a 20th level, tier 10 character should be able to take on threats much greater in power than, say, a mere CR 25 foe.

I'm both on vacation and pretty sick right now (lame!), but at some point I want to throw a few really high CR stat blocks up online for folks to fight their super powerful playtest characters against. Hopefully soon!

Until then... you can always just throw multiple tarrasques and Treerazers against a high level mythic party, of course.

Sovereign Court

Why not do a PbP? That would give much insight into the play.

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