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Mythic Adventures Playtest

Wednesday, November 14, 2012


Welcome to the long-awaited playtest of Mythic Adventures. This exciting book, due out in August 2013, gives you the chance to play a hero that is a cut above the ordinary sellsword, more powerful than your average hedge wizard, and able to take on challenges far beyond those of his ordinary contemporaries. Like Hercules and Achilles, these heroes inspire legends with their every deed, facing horrible foes and taking on dangerous quests that most would consider impossible. This playtest is a sample of the rules, giving you all the tools you need to run a mythic game or two right now, as well as the chance to tell us what works and what needs work.

Mythic Adventures is more than an ordinary sourcebook. It offers players and GMs a new way to play the Pathfinder RPG, from the humble beginnings of 1st level, to the lofty realms of power of 20th. You can use these rules to run a campaign where the players are mythic from the first session just as easily as you can use them to run a campaign where they are only mythic for a single game. The mythic rules can be used how you want, at any point in the campaign.

Put simply, the mythic rules allow characters (and monsters) to break some of the fundamental rules of the game. They allow a character to cheat death, to change the outcome of die rolls, and even to act twice in one turn. While mythic characters do get some statistical bonuses to denote their raw potential, much of their power comes from what they can do that others cannot, at least without having quite a few more levels. How many levels is the big question. This is where you come in.

The playtest of these rules is important to help us balance the overall system. These powers and abilities add a lot to the capabilities of characters and monsters, and it’s important to see how much this addition affects the overall power balance of the game. We need you to use these rules in your game, even if for just one or two sessions, and to give us your impression as to how the rules affect the game. While your initial impression from just reading the rules is valuable, actual play experience is by far more useful to our process. When playtesting the rules, please keep the following points in mind.

  • All playtest feedback should be posted to the following Mythic Adventures Playtest forums: General Discussion, Player Feedback, GM Feedback, Adventure Feedback.
  • Please check the forum for any similar topics before posting, and add to an existing thread whenever possible.
  • Please try to read the entire document before posting. You may find that your question is answered in a later section of the rules.
  • Remember, we would prefer actual playtest feedback. Use the rules, don’t just imagine how they might work.
  • Be civil! Remember that everyone on the forum is here for the same goal, to make a better game. Remember that the experience of others may be different from your own and starting an argument over a differing viewpoint does no service to the playtest. Posters who violate these guidelines will find themselves given a timeout and have offending threads locked.
  • Have fun. These rules are designed to add an extra edge of excitement to your game, allowing you to throw over-the-top situations at your characters. Share your stories with us and your fellow playtesters.

Now get out there, grab the document, give it a read, and play! I am looking forward to reading your thoughts, comments, and criticisms about these rules. The playtest will run from now until noon (PST) on Monday, January 14th. See you on the boards.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

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Tags: Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Playtest
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Get well soon, James!

I'll keep an eye out for that Cthulhu stat block. :)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
F. Wesley Schneider wrote:
Starsunder wrote:
Jason Bulmahn, I just found the Mythic Vampire template. You magnificent bastard.
Ha! That's the one I did ('cause, duh, obviously). Fans of non-sparkling vampires should find a few winks in there. ;)

Well, in that case, youre a magnificent bastard. ;)

Overall I love it. I'm going to have to play around with it to see the results in actual play (off the cuff I'd say the claws ability, while awesome, seems a little weak, and I might would give the MV telekinesis at will rather than having them expend a mythic point on it), it looks flavorful and fun as hell. And I'm def going to Playtest it before making any (houserule) changes.

Also, I'm getting geared up to run a Castlevania-inspired campaign so this particular template is completely relavent to my interest.

Great work!


prototype00 wrote:
Jason Bulmahn wrote:

Skritz,

We have included a number of options in the Trickster that would suit the alchemist quite well actually. This was something I kept in mind when doing a lot of the initial design. Also note that these are not all of the path abilities that will be included in the final book. I will be ensuring that every class has at least a few options when it comes to selecting a path.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

I am heartened to see this (the every class has at least a few options), as hopefully it means that the monk isn't an after thought with regards to mythic abilities.

While several of the all purpose hitting things (of the Champion) or not taking damage (of the Guardian) abilities would apply very nicely to monks in general, it would warm my heart to see mythic abilities of a more ki-based or mystic bent that monks could take.

prototype00

The monk was also a class I had in mind when I asked about support for all classes, I just forgot to write him down in there.

Taldor

Hmmm. Just from a glance I'm curious how this works in play now. It looks like a character overdrive system for crazy important moments. A second layer of resource of AWESOMEness that has a drawback for having it. Interesting.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Power Word Unzip wrote:

That mythic vampire template in there just screams Count Strahd von Zarovich to me.

grins evilly, taps fingers together

My first impression was Kain from Soul Reaver; ah well, to each their own. ^_^


Finished reading the entire document within a few hours of release ... VERY well done guys. This looks to be one of the tuly special RPG books of the last few decades. Fabulous potential.

I'd still like to see characters advance beyond 20th level WITH mythic tires as well, but don't want to quibble or sound ungrateful.

From my initial pass through the 50+ pages, the one glaring item that jumped out at me was AMAZING INTITIATIVE. Super cool ability but now characters will essentially go first almost every time (not that I'm complaining mind you!) ... the still cool, but alarming feature of amazing intiative is the ability to spend a mythic point to go AGAIN in a given round. If you're in the middle of the tiers (say 4-5) and your key ability modifier grants +5, one can take TWO turns of actions for an entire key battle!! Is there any concern about this slowing down battles or die roll pacing? And if a "Final Boss" has this ability and the players make 1-2 bad rols for initiative, they're toast, no?

Or am I missing something? Regardless, this is the coolest playtest I've seen and hope you guys feel great about yourselves heading into the holidays. Well deserved slaps on the back. I've already marked my calendar for August 2013!


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

I am a bit confused about the phrasing of the Mythic Power Attack feat (note the bolded part at the end):

Mythic Power Attack wrote:
Benefit: When you use Power Attack, you gain a +3 bonus melee damage rolls (instead of +2). When your base attack bonus reaches +4 and every 4 points thereafter, the amount of bonus damage increases by +3 (instead of +2). In addition, the bonus damage from this feat is doubled on a critical hit.

This seems to imply that the damage from the non-mythical Power Attack feat isn't doubled on a critical hit, which seems weird to me. I've always been under the impression that all bonuses to damage that do not derive from addition dice is multiplied on a critical hit.

Or is this maybe supposed to read that the bonus from the Mythical Power Attack is doubled on a critical hit even before the multiplier of the critical hit is applied, which would in effect mean the bonus from this feat is multiplied by 4 for x2 weapons (or by 6/8 for x3/x4 weapons)?

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

Derron42 wrote:

Finished reading the entire document within a few hours of release ... VERY well done guys. This looks to be one of the tuly special RPG books of the last few decades. Fabulous potential.

I'd still like to see characters advance beyond 20th level WITH mythic tires as well, but don't want to quibble or sound ungrateful.

From my initial pass through the 50+ pages, the one glaring item that jumped out at me was AMAZING INTITIATIVE. Super cool ability but now characters will essentially go first almost every time (not that I'm complaining mind you!) ... the still cool, but alarming feature of amazing intiative is the ability to spend a mythic point to go AGAIN in a given round. If you're in the middle of the tiers (say 4-5) and your key ability modifier grants +5, one can take TWO turns of actions for an entire key battle!! Is there any concern about this slowing down battles or die roll pacing? And if a "Final Boss" has this ability and the players make 1-2 bad rols for initiative, they're toast, no?

Or am I missing something? Regardless, this is the coolest playtest I've seen and hope you guys feel great about yourselves heading into the holidays. Well deserved slaps on the back. I've already marked my calendar for August 2013!

I think you will find that in play, there are a lot of demands on your mythic power and using them all to take two turns means in practice that you can barely use any of your other abilities. As for going first, yes, they do often go first, except of course when they are facing other mythic foes.

Clash of the titans time...

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

Zaister wrote:

I am a bit confused about the phrasing of the Mythic Power Attack feat (note the bolded part at the end):

Mythic Power Attack wrote:
Benefit: When you use Power Attack, you gain a +3 bonus melee damage rolls (instead of +2). When your base attack bonus reaches +4 and every 4 points thereafter, the amount of bonus damage increases by +3 (instead of +2). In addition, the bonus damage from this feat is doubled on a critical hit.

This seems to imply that the damage from the non-mythical Power Attack feat isn't doubled on a critical hit, which seems weird to me. I've always been under the impression that all bonuses to damage that do not derive from addition dice is multiplied on a critical hit.

Or is this maybe supposed to read that the bonus from the Mythical Power Attack is doubled on a critical hit even before the multiplier of the critical hit is applied, which would in effect mean the bonus from this feat is multiplied by 4 for x2 weapons (or by 6/8 for x3/x4 weapons)?

This has been answered in another thread.

Jason


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

One more ability that raises a question (again, note the bolded part):

Archmage Path Abilities wrote:

Deep Understanding (Ex): You begin to understand the pattern behind all magic. You automatically identify any

arcane spell cast within 60 feet as long as it is on your spell list and is of a level that you can cast. In addition, whenever you attempt to identify a magic item using detect magic or a similar effect, you can take 10 on the check to determine its properties.

Why would anyone not be able to take 10 on a Spellcraft check to identify magic items? I'm assuming this is not referring to the rule that prevents taking 10 "under duress", because, well, a three-round-long identify attempt during combat seems a generally highly unlikely ability.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
This has been answered in another thread.

Ah, thanks. Sorry for posting before having checked all the threads.


Clash of the Titans indeed Jason!!

Go get yourself a well deserved beer!

I'm off to go re-read the document with one myself ;)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Zaister, he answered that one as well. Apparently the concentration duration of the spell is what precludes it from taking 10.


Hama wrote:
Drowblade wrote:
will there be mythic paths for races as well?
I second this. Maybe you pick a path and you can choose from racial path traits each time you tier up, instead of your path trait?

I would veto this, if my word carried any weight. My concerns could be noted, but this is not the place, I think, and I've done enough debating today. I don't say it out of dislike of the idea, just the fear of the implementation.


I assume NPC can gain Mythic Paths as well, if they have class levels? No reason why they wouldn't be able to. Not every mythic NPC has to be a monster, but I figured I ought to ask.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Jason, will there be mythic monster feats in the final book?


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Cheapy wrote:
Zaister, he answered that one as well. Apparently the concentration duration of the spell is what precludes it from taking 10.

Wow, that's interesting, and should definitely be added to the Core Rulebook FAQ.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

A Mythic Vampire template but not a Mythic Werewolf template?

I am disappoint.

In all other cased, I'm quite literally blown away by this. I LOVE what I'm reading so far and I'm going to talk to my group soon to try and schedule a small Mythic session to see what kinda crazy stuff we can pull off with these rules.

In addition, I'd love to see more Mythic magic items based on the other major deities of the Golarion pantheon. So far, we have Erastil's Bow, Cayden's Cup, and Fire Goddess's Blade; is this something that's feasible?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Harrison wrote:

A Mythic Vampire template but not a Mythic Werewolf template?

I am disappoint.

In all other cased, I'm quite literally blown away by this. I LOVE what I'm reading so far and I'm going to talk to my group soon to try and schedule a small Mythic session to see what kinda crazy stuff we can pull off with these rules.

A mythic "were" template would be boss as hell. Like an alpha of a pack, or the legendary first "were" of a particular line.

And yes, the rules are sick. I'm overjoyed at how much I love them.


One other thing. I really like the "mythic" versions of Ezren (sleeveless), Valeros (shirtless), Seelah (holy halo), Kyra (showin' more skin), Lem (badass coat), and Merisiel (even moar daggers). I seriously can't wait to see how great they look fully drawn out.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

Doh, I didn't even recognize Seelah and Kyra. :)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I havent had a chance to download this yet, but curious if there is any kind of equivalance per say?

ie... 10th lvl/10 Mythic = CR 20?

Or whos winning a fight between Fighter 10/Champ 10 vs. Fighter 20th lvl

or if I have 4 players each with a 10CR/10MR what CR encounter am I using against them?

Taldor

Not really. I think that 10th level/10 mythic would wipe the floor with a 20th level character, but that is my assumption.


Quote:

To determine what challenges

a mythic PC can face, add the character’s tier to his
total character level. Use this adjusted character level
to determine what sorts of challenges he can face (as
noted on Table 12–1 on page 397 of the Core Rulebook).
When facing mythic foes, add the mythic rank to the
creature’s original CR to determine its adjusted CR
(as with encounters for nonmythic PCs). In any case, a
mythic character should be rewarded with experience
points and treasure based on the higher overall CR of
the encounters that they face.

So yes, 1 mythic tier = 1 level.

prototype00


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I've read up to the Game Master section on running a Mythic game. I really like what I'm seeing, though I did have some questions / comments which I posted in a different thread on the Players forum.

I think I can safely say that the Italian vacation that I jealously watched unfurl on your Facebook was well-earned, Jason!


James Jacobs wrote:

I'd REALLY love to see playtest results from players who use 20th level characters with various amounts of mythic tiers.

The idea is that once you hit 20th, that can act as one of the gateways into mythic level play—In theory, a 20th level, tier 10 character should be able to take on threats much greater in power than, say, a mere CR 25 foe.

I'm both on vacation and pretty sick right now (lame!), but at some point I want to throw a few really high CR stat blocks up online for folks to fight their super powerful playtest characters against. Hopefully soon!

Until then... you can always just throw multiple tarrasques and Treerazers against a high level mythic party, of course.

Hell, if you can get some of those statblocks thrown up before Friday night (no rush :P) I was thinking about doing a 20th level 10th tier quick game to take a short break from my current campaign. My players are still low level in that, so I know they'd like to take the reigns of something with a bit more.... oomph. Plus, my group, we generally like to go big with our games.

Just one little clarification.... 20th level, 10th tier....you should be able to handle CR 30s (if I read that correctly), yes?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Currently downloading, and my group and I have created a bunch of 15th level toons that we're going to try various mythic levels vs. various fights (BBEG and swarms of guys) to see how the fights go. Can't wait!


Hama wrote:
Not really. I think that 10th level/10 mythic would wipe the floor with a 20th level character, but that is my assumption.

Depends magic or melee?

A level 20 Wizard has 9th level spells or a level 10 Wizard Tier 10 has 5th level spells and a few might be mythic.

I'm betting on the level 20 pesonally.

Now A level 20 Fighter or a level 10 Fighter Tier 10? I bet on the Tier 10 one.

Taldor

DJEternalDarkness wrote:
Currently downloading, and my group and I have created a bunch of 15th level toons that we're going to try various mythic levels vs. various fights (BBEG and swarms of guys) to see how the fights go. Can't wait!

Dude, toons. Just...no.

Taldor

Hama wrote:
Not really. I think that 10th level/10 mythic would wipe the floor with a 20th level character, but that is my assumption.

I dunno. A 20th level can hold their own if they buy time and force the Mythic to burn their abilities. Mythic characters seem to have a shorter 'burn' than standard ones of a ~ level. So technically they would have long lasting spells and more raw damage with out burning uses of their ability.


Starbuck_II wrote:
Hama wrote:
Not really. I think that 10th level/10 mythic would wipe the floor with a 20th level character, but that is my assumption.

Depends magic or melee?

A level 20 Wizard has 9th level spells or a level 10 Wizard Tier 10 has 5th level spells and a few might be mythic.

I'm betting on the level 20 pesonally.

Now A level 20 Fighter or a level 10 Fighter Tier 10? I bet on the Tier 10 one.

Yeah, I'd put my money on the level 20 wizard in that fight. He may not have mythic abilities or spells, but he still has 9th level spells. And assuming they both go in prepared for a fight, yeah, level 20 wipes the floor with the mythic wizard.

10th level fighter would likely win against a 20th level fighter...unless they're both seriously optimized builds...then I think I'd put my money on the level 20...but that one might be a close call.

EDIT: Actually, I think a difference of 1 level would make a world of difference in the wizard fight. That one level is the difference between disintegrate and no disintegrate for the mythic wizard. And wizards have rather low fort saves... Haha


I would lean to the level 20, 'cause yeah, the mythic character is going to have to blow through their resources to keep up due to their low attack/saves. Of course there's still the pesky immortality issue to be considered...

Taldor

Ya. Best way to deal with a level 10 mythic is to bottle them up somewhere...or do the chopped into a dozen pieces, frozen, sealed in force cubes, and cast into various other dimensions trick.


TheLoneCleric wrote:
Ya. Best way to deal with a level 10 mythic is to bottle them up somewhere...or do the chopped into a dozen pieces, frozen, sealed in force cubes, and cast into various other dimensions trick.

What was that 9th level spell that imprisons you in the center of the sun? Do that. That'll deal with 'em.


Toughness (mythic) could use better wording than "twice as many hits points". It's not clear which hits points is affected. HD + Con? The normal hp gain from toughness?


I like it. I think it really opens up a lot of options.

I like it so much that I just presented the option to my PbP campaign, Absalom Gambit to see if they want to include it in our game. Perhaps becoming mythic themselves.

I think the challenge for the GM is finding ways to keep the party from knowing that they are onto a mythic challenge. I also think some of the lesser challenges are not so challenging. The Crafting one comes to mind.


It'll temporarily deal with him, until decades later an evil cult summons the character back, now crazed and intent on making all living things know the pain he did.

Actually that makes me wonder - I don't remember reading any rules regarding mythic characters aging, among other such things. Will there be anything touching on this subject in the final product? I can understand if it was left out of the playtest for not really being relevant in the short run.


MiniGM wrote:

I like it. I think it really opens up a lot of options.

I like it so much that I just presented the option to my PbP campaign, Absalom Gambit to see if they want to include it in our game. Perhaps becoming mythic themselves.

I think the challenge for the GM is finding ways to keep the party from knowing that they are onto a mythic challenge. I also think some of the lesser challenges are not so challenging. The Crafting one comes to mind.

Yeah...there seems to be a lot of variance in the challenge of the of the lesser challenges. The ones that deal with skill checks are a cake walk if you use those skills. Then there's the ones dealing with crits (score three crits in a row? Or survive three in a fight?)

Also, one can be easily abused by Archmage.

Mass Obliteration: Defeat six or more creatures with a
single spell (add one to the number of creatures that must
be defeated each time you accomplish this trial). This can
count multiple times toward a tier.

There's nothing saying how powerful these creatures have to be. Whats to stop the Archmage from just going out and fireballing a Goblin tribe? Or just summoning a bunch of low-end creatures and nuking them

"I summon 20 fiendish rabbits. And then I fireball them into oblivion" *DING* Next tier.

That one could probably use some rewording to at least prevent the summoning thing. Although a smart DM would probably say it doesn't work anyways. But you'll always have players that will fight tooth and nail if the wording in the books supports them.


There's something saying how powerful they have to be later in the DM section. It's poorly placed though and will certainly be moved in the final version.

I've also never understood the issue with players who will 'fight tooth and nail'. DM says no, discussion over.


Lord Embok wrote:

There's something saying how powerful they have to be later in the DM section. It's poorly placed though and will certainly be moved in the final version.

I've also never understood the issue with players who will 'fight tooth and nail'. DM says no, discussion over.

I think they forget that the rules are more like guidelines, and that the DM has the final say on everything. They see the rules in the books as law. If it says it works in a certain way, then it must. Even if the DM says "No, that's broken as hell, I will bludgeon you with the Core book if you ask again."


Three things I like,
1. I can create characters who are like demigods.
2. I can use this to really flush out a pathfinder version of King Arthur and his knights.
3. Adding the mythic vampire rules with a vampire character from Blood of the Night will really be awesome. Though I'm guessing if you do that you would have to take the vampire levels or one of the mythic class levels unless you get the duel path feat.


There need to be MORE Mythic weaknesses. Such as 'Need to perform task X' ,'Cannot perform task X' and by extension 'Follow this code', which could include both. Don't forget 'Cannot consume substance X' and 'Spot X of the body is vulnerable'. How about something involving not giving your name/true name?

A certain vulnerable heel (or back, in another case) and a ban on dog meat come to mind, aswell as cutting one's hair, don't you think?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

REALLY looking forward for this book. Loving the Sketches.

Kuddos for Cheapy and his post, really insightfull reposting.


I too like what I see so far, not exactly what I expected but as Cheapy said I am not the designer. Somemone in my group will likely buy the book regardless of how the playtest goes, but I plan on seeing if I cant get them to run it at some point.

My only question would be how the bonuses to stats will work out. Seems like just about any class, but particularly casters, will be made quite powerful indeed from a +2 bonus every other Mythic level.


Derf, I think that is certainly correct.

I think what happens though is that the large challenges are what keep it from getting ridiculous. I envision those as being mini campaigns on their own. The type of thing that could span several levels (if it is low level) or at least one if it is mid or high. If not then suddenly you have a level 5 fighter with 26 STR before a belt, and then what is the point.

I also think that is a bit of the idea behind these mythics. They should be able to easily handle far more than a normal being would, and that is why they are charged with stopping the great demons or whatnot.


I was originally planning on having a Gallowspire adventure where the players fought Tar-Baphon's Shade... let's see how they deal with this instead....

Okay... so Advanced Lich Necromancer 20/Mythic Archmage 10... riding on a Mythic Ravener Umbral Great Wyrm... good enough starting point for my Tar-Baphon...


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Derfmancher wrote:

I too like what I see so far, not exactly what I expected but as Cheapy said I am not the designer. Somemone in my group will likely buy the book regardless of how the playtest goes, but I plan on seeing if I cant get them to run it at some point.

My only question would be how the bonuses to stats will work out. Seems like just about any class, but particularly casters, will be made quite powerful indeed from a +2 bonus every other Mythic level.

Remember, mythic tiers are not levels and should not be held to the same balance as class levels. Mythic characters are supposed to stand head and shoulders above non-mythics.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Jason Bulmahn wrote:

Skritz,

We have included a number of options in the Trickster that would suit the alchemist quite well actually. This was something I kept in mind when doing a lot of the initial design. Also note that these are not all of the path abilities that will be included in the final book. I will be ensuring that every class has at least a few options when it comes to selecting a path.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

I'd just like to circle back on this as a point. Love the document, but will move onto more specific things when I've had a chance to digest it properly. My main concern at this point is that the paths do seem slanted more to the base wizard / cleric / rogue / fighter mechanic, and in fact seem to be weighted more toward fighter options of one theme or another. I guess to a degree that's because myth and legend itself is slanted towards mighty feat of arms rather than, say, exploration or investigation, but I'll be interested to see to what extent the final product allows other outlooks / classes to really get their day in the mythic arena.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Derron42 wrote:

Finished reading the entire document within a few hours of release ... VERY well done guys. This looks to be one of the tuly special RPG books of the last few decades. Fabulous potential.

I'd still like to see characters advance beyond 20th level WITH mythic tires as well, but don't want to quibble or sound ungrateful.

This really isn't a post 20th level book. It seems to be more about stretching those 20 levels like an acordion and sandwiching mythic within... like a colossal multi-deck sandwich.

Yum.... sandwich.


And there was a decided LACK of monk options. In that, I am disappointed.

MA

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