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Synergistic Maps

Tuesday, October 16, 2012

When I'm not working on the next upcoming hardback rulebook, or apps, or whatever needs to be done around this place, my mind is on maps. While the talented Jason Engle makes our Flip-Mat and Map Packs gorgeous, I'm the guy who dreams up what goes on those maps and how they work together. And that's a fun job!

For the past year and a half I've been working hard to make these lines as fun and useful as possible. I've worked to make many of our Map Packs more modular, so that you, the GM, can build the kind of complexes and adventure sites that dance around your imagination. I've also been working to create synergies (excuse my use of such an overused and often misused term) among these products whenever possible.

For example, if you have both Map Pack: Marketplace and Map Pack: Rooftops, you'll notice that you can use them to create large and evocative city spaces. I like running urban adventures, and I'm a sucker for mapping aids that will help me illustrate the twisting alleyways that serve as the stage for a chase, gang war, or a run-in with local bravos with more guts than brains. When we put these products on the schedule I wanted to create the product that I always wanted, and that I figured a lot of you would want too.

But there are other types of synergies within current mapping products. Lately we have worked to have some of our maps fit well with some of our Adventure Paths. The latest ship maps provide the layout for the chief vessels the PCs command in the Skull & Shackles Adventure Path, and Flip-Mat: Town Square provides two chief encounter locations within the town of Sandpoint for those of you running Rise of the Runelords. The goal of this type of synergy is to give a tool to GMs who are running Adventure Paths, without making the maps so specific that they're hard to use for those GMs who aren't.

The question I pose to you all on this fine autumn Tuesday is, "Are we on the right track?" Do you like the synergies in the mapping products? Have you noticed them? Are we going far enough? Let me know your mind on this matter and help me to create the best products for your Pathfinder game.

Stephen Radney-MacFarland
Designer

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: GameMastery Jason Engle
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Osirion

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I like the Synergies, but I also like APs having their own custom maps. Maps for standard stuff like cornfields and town squares and inns make sense and work. But I'd like to keep the dungeons specific to the APs so that I don't have to warn my players not to buy certain Paizo products.

Basically it comes down to: "Is there anything hidden on the map that I don't want players to see?" If so, I'd rather not have any synergism between the maps and the APs.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

I own quite a few flip mats and map packs and I feel that they all work together pretty well. What I'd like to see is more of how the map packs and flip mats can work together, such as how you can use some of the map packs to reveal indoor areas that are otherwise without interior detail on some of the flip maps (I believe the crypts and shops map packs do this).

If I could make one request though, I'd really like to see some stuff that's more out of the ordinary. For example, I have a lot of hopes that we'll see some middle eastern themed towns, dungeons and environments to fit with the Osirion theme we see in Shattered Star. Please make this happen, as it's really hard to find any sort of tiles for this sort of setting.

Shadow Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yes, especially with the creation of the urban maps and things like the city streets and interiors tie in. I've been using those for months and my players are still baffled by the fact that they can have a bar fight, chuck a dude out the window, and then chase him up the roof and into the next THREE BUILDINGS as the fight advances on.

The things I really want to see though are more diversity in city types. Where's our underground/dwarven city, or elven forest palaces or tree houses, where are our stilt swamp homes hanging over pirhana swarms that help handle garbage? Also would love to see more diverse districts covered like say college/academy shops and schools, zoos, parks, sewer complexes. The other thing I would love to see are maps based on destroyed, abandoned, or infested cities so that we can pull something like a then and now game where players can really see what that town looked like before it got infested with zombies (this would make a great flip mat).

Would also like to see some more swamp mats the one we have is ok but would like to see something that stands out more then the one we have maybe with lots of small rivers, hummocks, and large above ground root trees that would make it pop more.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

I Love the tie ins.

Cheliax Contributor

You are on the right track. These are two of the Paizo products I buy automatically, and the synergy is part of the appeal.

Silver Crusade

5 people marked this as a favorite.

This is probably more a web team suggestion, but it would be cool to see on each AP page in the description "Here's a list of relevant map packs that would work great with this AP..."

I'd also like to see how these will work with GameSpace, as I either heard or read that there would be some kind of distribution model. Or maybe that's too early to discuss? I'll return to ask a question I have if it doesn't derail.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Quote:
The question I pose to you all on this fine autumn Tuesday is, "Are we on the right track?" Do you like the synergies in the mapping products? Have you noticed them? Are we going far enough?

I have definitely noticed the shift over the last little while (a year? a little more?) and have heartily approved. From my perspective, it's very hard for you to go too far - I wish there were more tie-ins along the lines of the dungeon flipmat/Crypt of the Everflame. I wouldnt want that to become too common but I would like something like one dungeon/keep/crypt/sewer system/demiplane/prison/etcetera per year which was completely described by a concurrently released module.

I would also add my voice to the several requests above for more 'unusual' locations. Admittedly there are always newcomers and you cant make them too niche. Nonetheless, now that the line is so robust and well established, the odd "weird" map (like a Sultan's Palace, Chicken-Legged Hut, Slavemarket of Hell, Treetop City, Etcetera) might be feasible?

Whilst I take the point that stratagemini made above - my situation (and preference) is quite different. In my case I'm the sole purchaser of paizo products so I would love to see some more explicit tie-ins with the APs. The risk of spoilers is a non-issue to me - the gamemastery lines (and minis line) are entirely about making the APs and modules run smoother for me, so the more linkage the better.

At some point I'd really like to see paizo experiment with a one-off product (not part of the subscription) of an "AP map-pack": I'm thinking half-a-dozen flipmats bundled together, all useful for some given AP. (With a price point of $60-$70 or something). I know it's impossible to produce battlemats for an entire AP, but I think ten to twelve key locations would be really good value (obviously I have no idea how popular and therefore viable that would be).


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

I love the fact that the maps and minis lines tie in to the AP line. I enjoy mapping, so I only tend to grab to odd map pack here or there, but I will definitely be grabbing the town square flip mat before I start running ROTRL. I would also like to see some more tie ins to the fiction line. I have the Radovan and Varian minis that were done for Gencon, and I would love to see more characters from the novels in either mini line.

Sczarni

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I like the tie-ins -- but I wouldn't like it if we got to the point that we *have* to buy a map to make another product work.

So yes to synergy, but make sure that every product you sell works as a standalone.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Skull and Shackles suffers significantly from not having more ship maps integrated into the AP itself. It struck me as a little too deliberate that ship maps were released along with the AP itself.

Taking care not to seem too mercenary in what is included as a map within an AP and as a separate map-pack is critical to maintaining the integrity of Paizo products.

Otherwise, keep up the good work!

Paizo Employee Webstore Gninja Minion

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Radiarch Eklesya wrote:
This is probably more a web team suggestion, but it would be cool to see on each AP page in the description "Here's a list of relevant map packs that would work great with this AP..."

This is something that is being worked on. :)

Sczarni

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Radiarch Eklesya wrote:

This is probably more a web team suggestion, but it would be cool to see on each AP page in the description "Here's a list of relevant map packs that would work great with this AP..."

I'd also like to see how these will work with GameSpace, as I either heard or read that! there would be some kind of distribution model. Or maybe that's too early to discuss? I'll return to ask a question I have if it doesn't derail.

When you arein the store, there is the 'list' button.... just create a list and make it yourself!

Sczarni

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I would like to see the maps from the AP's as downloadable pdf's that are DESIGNED to be printed off on standard size paper (so a decent map might be nine pages worth or so). I personally hate "settling" for a map that looks the part. I'm one of those GM's that doesn't have a whole lot of time, which is why I love the adventure paths. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of time to draw my maps either. I think it would be great to just print out the maps, throw them in a folder, and be ready when game comes. They are easy enough to pin down on poster board (or something thicker) with tacks. I have done this with Gaming Paper in the past, but again I don't have alot of time to draw the map.

Please. Consider this. It would be a great boon for those of us who neither have the time nor the photo-editing software to rip the map from the pdf and enlarge it (without it looking like crap, to boot).


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber

Yes, you are on the right path. Actually, it is the synergies that made me decide to add the maps to my subscriptions.

Osirion

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Cards, Maps Subscriber

I believe I own all these products.

I loved the flip map that went with Crypt of the Everflame as Steve mentioned.

I would really like to see more like this. A map for D1 would be great. This works great for modules and I would not mind seeing them in APs.

I understand it would be impossible to have flip maps for all AP maps but the more like this there could be the happier I will be...

This is a great line - keep them coming.


Synergy is good but preprinted maps are still too specialized for my taste. What I would want to see is a fully modular tile set. Where each room or building can be placed individually to create my own maps.

Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Stephen, I have two requests:

1) A decent cavern and tunnel map pack set.

2) If you're going to do a big dungeon map, please use map packs instead of a flip map. I would rather not expose the entire dungeon layout to the players, because sometimes they meta-game ("that looks important; look, it's a dead end"). There are solutions -- like covering the map with sticky notes, but nothing satisfying. Map Pack:Lairs was a nice solution. More like that, please.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Yes, your on the right track. What I would like to see is a flip-map of a ruined town or village and the map pack, then showing some of the levels of the ruined buildings and such. Some more flip maps and map packs that tie into some of the old or even new AP's! With the Winter Witch AP, would LOVE to see some snow field maps! KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK and look forward to see future products!

Osirion

4 people marked this as a favorite.

I agree you're on the right track. I would just suggest more diversity in terrain types. I'd love to see a tundra or grasslands type of flip-mats. I think the flip-mats should focus on being more "general" terrain types with few specific features so they're reusable, while the map packs should be more modular and focus more on buildings and objects. So if I buy a grasslands flip-mat, I could buy a kobold camp map pack to lay over it that would contain huts, campfires, sentry posts, etc. I would never buy any of the dungeon flip-mats because they are one time use, at least unless you get a new group to game with, but I love the forest, swamp, and desert flip-mats because I can always reuse them.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Actually, here's a synergy I want, and it has nothing to do with your new map products

I own one flip-mat. The blank one. That way I can draw the dungeon maps on that, and erase it for the next map.

The blank flip mat is 24x30 squares. Right now I'm running RotRL:AE, and the other night I discovered something interesting: some of the very first maps aren't 24x30.

The Glassworks, as laid out, is something like 25 squares tall, and some of the basement rooms have to be shifted slightly to fit on the mat with the main building. Similarly, the Cathedral of Wrath is something like 34 squares long, and maybe 26-27 tall. It doesn't matter much, but my dungeon corridors are comically tiny.

What I'd like to see is a cheap product that gives 'paint-by-numbers' instructions that can show

a) how to lay out a dungeon from book to map so that everything fits, and where the 'dividing line' might go on a double-wide.
b) If the book image won't fit the map, what to modify to make it still look nice.

Osirion

I like the Synergy, and want it to continue.

I will shout again my request for a LARGE blank flip-mat, we need this too!

Sczarni

1 person marked this as a favorite.
ohako wrote:

Actually, here's a synergy I want, and it has nothing to do with your new map products

I own one flip-mat. The blank one. That way I can draw the dungeon maps on that, and erase it for the next map.

The blank flip mat is 24x30 squares. Right now I'm running RotRL:AE, and the other night I discovered something interesting: some of the very first maps aren't 24x30.

The Glassworks, as laid out, is something like 25 squares tall, and some of the basement rooms have to be shifted slightly to fit on the mat with the main building. Similarly, the Cathedral of Wrath is something like 34 squares long, and maybe 26-27 tall. It doesn't matter much, but my dungeon corridors are comically tiny.

What I'd like to see is a cheap product that gives 'paint-by-numbers' instructions that can show

a) how to lay out a dungeon from book to map so that everything fits, and where the 'dividing line' might go on a double-wide.
b) If the book image won't fit the map, what to modify to make it still look nice.

That right there is actually the reason I purchased the Gaming Paper. That and you can have all maps pre-drawn. And copying the image from the picture was somewhat difficult even then. But it is an immense help in not having to confine it all to one space. Try also drawing it out as shown on graph paper, cutting it out, and rotating it on another sheet of graph paper and trace. It might help


Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yes please do more of the synergistic maps! They can make a DMs life SO much easier.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
ohako wrote:

Actually, here's a synergy I want, and it has nothing to do with your new map products

I own one flip-mat. The blank one. That way I can draw the dungeon maps on that, and erase it for the next map.

The blank flip mat is 24x30 squares. Right now I'm running RotRL:AE, and the other night I discovered something interesting: some of the very first maps aren't 24x30.

The Glassworks, as laid out, is something like 25 squares tall, and some of the basement rooms have to be shifted slightly to fit on the mat with the main building. Similarly, the Cathedral of Wrath is something like 34 squares long, and maybe 26-27 tall. It doesn't matter much, but my dungeon corridors are comically tiny.

What I'd like to see is a cheap product that gives 'paint-by-numbers' instructions that can show

a) how to lay out a dungeon from book to map so that everything fits, and where the 'dividing line' might go on a double-wide.
b) If the book image won't fit the map, what to modify to make it still look nice.

When I'm dealing with a map bigger than my flip mat, I tend to just draw the actual rooms, and shift them around to a) fit and b) obscure the arrangement from my players.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I think it's a great idea to make the map packs easier to use together with the flip mats. For instance, I love the jungle map pieces, which are great individually, but so far as I know there's no jungle flipmat to use with it. That would be really great.

I also think there's lots of great environments that haven't been done well yet:
-- Certainly city and town settings with a different flavor than European would be great, whether that's mid-eastern, underdark-ish, or what have you.
-- I'd love to see an aquatic set, preferably with a big flip mat to go with it (one side the surface of a body of water, maybe one quarter with rocks, one quarter with reef and/or sandbar, and one half open water; the other side an underwater area, maybe one half open, one quarter underwater trench, and one quarter a sunken shrine or shipwreck.)
-- More planar stuff would be good. A flipmat to go with your Hellscapes set in particular. A celestial-themed set would be nice too. Or how about the City of Brass?
-- A giant-themed set would be great too, with giant-sized furniture and the like.
-- How about a flipmat that gives you a vertical space, like a cliffside, a stepped temple set into a mountain, or scaffolding on a tall building? That would be new and tactically interesting.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Cleanthes wrote:

I think it's a great idea to make the map packs easier to use together with the flip mats. For instance, I love the jungle map pieces, which are great individually, but so far as I know there's no jungle flipmat to use with it. That would be really great.

I also think there's lots of great environments that haven't been done well yet:
-- Certainly city and town settings with a different flavor than European would be great, whether that's mid-eastern, underdark-ish, or what have you.
-- I'd love to see an aquatic set, preferably with a big flip mat to go with it (one side the surface of a body of water, maybe one quarter with rocks, one quarter with reef and/or sandbar, and one half open water; the other side an underwater area, maybe one half open, one quarter underwater trench, and one quarter a sunken shrine or shipwreck.)
-- More planar stuff would be good. A flipmat to go with your Hellscapes set in particular. A celestial-themed set would be nice too. Or how about the City of Brass?
-- A giant-themed set would be great too, with giant-sized furniture and the like.
-- How about a flipmat that gives you a vertical space, like a cliffside, a stepped temple set into a mountain, or scaffolding on a tall building? That would be new and tactically interesting.

the euro-flavor thing I have seen in some other map threads before. as a german I can only say, no mediveal city looks even remotly like rpg maps :-)

there are no blocks, nothing square and retangular. rpg maps maybe resemnle american wild west towns more than anything else I guess.
my point is: the maps are as far away from euro-mediveal as they are from arabic or african :-)

I love the cliff idea, by the way

Andoran

I love the synergy, and the map products. MAKE MOAR


another thing:

on some indoor mats it is not clear which spqce is ocupied by furniture and not aproachable or difficult terrain, I know it looks bettr that way but for practical reasons it would help to line up things with the grid

what I would love, would be a forrest map with single tree trunks,
on the forrest mAps we have, you look down on the treetops
but in a forrest combat you would walk around between the trunks, they give cover, block the way etc.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

There was a great article in the fall 2010 issue of Kobold Quarterly that dealt with vertical encounters and maps. I'd love to see something similar used in an AP with a corresponding map pack.


now that they're coated just like flip mats, is there any reason that the map pack tiles couldn't be double-sided?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber
Cleanthes wrote:


-- How about a flipmat that gives you a vertical space, like a cliffside, a stepped temple set into a mountain, or scaffolding on a tall building? That would be new and tactically interesting.

I love this idea! A vertical cliff face flip mat. Or, some type of vertical flip mat for those flying encounters.

Cheliax

I 2nd the Chicken-Legged Hut in a map pack idea from above.

Keep up the good work! You've gotten me to buy a lot more map packs and filp-mats then I normally would just because I'm planning on running both Skull & Shackles & RotRLAE over the next few years and LOVE being as prepared as possible.

As always, Paizo rocks.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

A syngergistic map is effective as long as it can function as a standalone map.


aeglos wrote:

the euro-flavor thing I have seen in some other map threads before. as a german I can only say, no mediveal city looks even remotly like rpg maps :-)

there are no blocks, nothing square and retangular. rpg maps maybe resemnle american wild west towns more than anything else I guess.
my point is: the maps are as far away from euro-mediveal as they are from arabic or african :-)

I totallY agree with you about this, but of course we're talking about *fantasy* medieval Europe, and the conventions for what *fantasy* medieval Europe looked like are pretty well set. I imagine the fantasy mideast or Africa wouldn't bear all that much relationship to the reality either. For instance, hardly any city maps I've ever seen have got crap and garbage all over them, but let's face it, high sanitation standards have been pretty rare historically speaking o.O

Contributor

I love synergy. What I would particularly like, now that we've got enough rooftops, is a few cellars. Right now all there is in the way of cellars is one cellar with badly buried bodies from the Haunted Mansion pack, an underground ritual room with candles from Shops pack, and a whole bunch of sewers. I would love to have just a regular wine cellar I could place rats or zombies in as I saw fit without them coming prepackaged.

It would also be nice if the hypothetical Cellars pack was made so you could stack them and what's a basement could lead to a sub-basement and so on.

Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

3 people marked this as a favorite.

One other thought, looking at some of the material Atlas Games produces.

Would it be possible to put encounter-specific elements on transparent plastic sheets, so that we could place them where we think appropriate, on any flip mat?


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I am a GM who runs APs and modules.

I find the most useful flip mats and map packs for me fall into 2 categories:
1. Specific adventure tie-in. As an example, I bought the Town Square for RotR AE, City Streets for Dawn of the Scarlett Sun, and Caravans for Jade Regent. I am really excited about the Thornkeep Flip-Mat pack. I like when an encounter in an adventure tells me to use a certain map. It really does make things easier.
2. Uber-generic maps. I have purchased a couple of the forest flip mats, the warehouse, urban tavern, things that can be used in any setting, anytime. I purchased the Bandit Lair mainly for the reverse side - a plain open green wilderness with some dirt that I could use for any generic outdoor location. Gamescapes Story Maps have some really great generic maps - like grassland, wasteland, and desert steppes - but they are not the same size as the Paizo maps, so Paizo flip mats are my map of choice for consistency’s sake. If you guys could produce those types of generic maps, that would be awesome.

About synergy:
I ordered the Shops pack to go with the City Streets. I was thrilled that the dockside pub crawl fits perfectly next to the dockside warehouse. What I would like is the best of both worlds…I wish the Flip-Mat: Dungeon was the dungeon under Kaer Maga. I wish all of the rural town type maps fit next to each other. I wish all of the city related maps fit next to each other like giant tiles. I would love to see the borders of each flip mat with a similar theme fit next to similarly themed counterparts with the exact same graphics. Forest blends with swamp, swamp blends with Bandit Lair, with deep forest, etc…Again, with the option of growing large sets.

Thanks


I guess I'm in the minority, but I'd rather not have the maps be too AP specific. I play 3.5, so the GameMastery products are of great use to me. I own quite a few flip maps and map tiles, but I passed on the town square. While I like the synergy of things like the shops and roof tops, I'd rather you keep the maps somewhat generic, especially since I don't actually play Pathfinder.
I'm in favor of having flip maps connect to each other. Very useful for urban campaigns especially.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Chris Mortika wrote:

One other thought, looking at some of the material Atlas Games produces.

Would it be possible to put encounter-specific elements on transparent plastic sheets, so that we could place them where we think appropriate, on any flip mat?

You mean like rubble, overgrowth, downed trees, or broken furniture printed on transparency sheets so it could be positioned in a scene as needed? That could be cool.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Wolf Munroe wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:

One other thought, looking at some of the material Atlas Games produces.

Would it be possible to put encounter-specific elements on transparent plastic sheets, so that we could place them where we think appropriate, on any flip mat?

You mean like rubble, overgrowth, downed trees, or broken furniture printed on transparency sheets so it could be positioned in a scene as needed? That could be cool.

I've got a few products like this and my experience is that it's cooler in idea than in execution unfortunately. It's a pain storing lots of fiddly bits in an accessible way. I'm a little bit leery of the upcoming mounts map pack for this reason (also because I dont think they are transparent, which would have been better).

I like the idea, but I've always found myself giving up on actually using it and going back to dry/wet erase for simplicity of execution.

Andoran

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Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

I own pretty much all the map packs and flip mats but I don't run Adventure Paths* so am not worried whether the maps tie in or not, I just don't want them to be too specific, either to and APs or to Golarion (I use map packs for my Eberron and Freeport games).

I do like it when PFS scenarios make use of map packs and flip maps though, so yes that is very useful.

What I do want to see are map packs that can be configured to make up a while scene, e.g. a whole mansion, rather than individual rooms (Haunted Mansion & Palace I am looking at you!).

Also I want the map packs to be configurable into more than one configuration - so make sure no furniture or other set dressing spans two map pack sections (so if you re-arrange them you don't get half a chair etc) also make doorways be in common places (e.g single doors in middle of of the short end and double doors in middle of long ends).

I recently tried to use my map packs to create a floor of bedrooms in a palace (Sea Lord's Palace in Freeport) and despite some interesting rooms in Map Pakc Fortress etc, I couldn't make a cohesive whole and so ended up using Dungeon Tiles instead.

TL;DR:
Happy for tie ins with APs as long as they are not too specific.
Tie ins to PFS scenarios welcomed but again don't make them too specific.
Prefer nothing Golarion specific.
Want Map Packs to create whole buildings etc rather than single rooms.
Want Map Packs to be more flexible in how they can be arranged.

*I am too busy to read a 96 page scenario, so I write my own. I also find the APs last too long, I prefer shorter campaigns; I started playing RotRL and only made it to the second book before leaving the group, two other players left before making it to the end as well.

Andoran

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
Steve Geddes wrote:
I've got a few products like this and my experience is that it's cooler in idea than in execution unfortunately. It's a pain storing lots of fiddly bits in an accessible way.

I found a solution for storing my Dungeon Tiles (which have varying sizes of pieces)...

Spoiler:
I use Really Useful Boxes to store my Dungeon Tiles.

Photo 1
Photo 2
Photo 3
Photo 4
Photo 5
Photo 6 showing two boxes of Dungeon Tiles. One contains all the first series of tiles (DT 1 through 7) with an extra copy of DT4 Ruins of the Wild (8 sets in total). One contains all the second series of tiles (DU1 through 6 at present) with an extra copy of DU4 Arcane Towers and DU6 Harrowing Halls (8 sets in total).
Photo 7 I mark the edges of my tiles with felt tip pens to indicate which set they are from. Green is used for the original series (DT) and Red for the second series (DU). The number of marks indicates which set they are from in that series. In this picture I can see that these are from Series 2, Set 3, i.e. Caves of Carnage.
Photo 8 I use Smartz zip lock bags to hold the tiles I need for a particular encounter. This makes it easy to set up an encounter and also to transport just the tiles I need if I am not playing at home.


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

Cheers. I use something similar. Nonetheless, for me at least, I find digging through the 2x2 tiles for the giant's throne is often more trouble than its worth.

Hopefully a solution will present itself - I do like the idea of customisable flip mats.


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I agree with the majority of people here in that having specific maps for the APs would be extremely useful. I have recently stated RotRL with my group and I find that I have in the book these beautifully drawn maps which are wasted when I end up scrawling a rough copy onto my mat. Why aren't these things available in a large printable format at least? I understand that sometimes there are secret sections that PCs should not be aware of, but a PDF containing a modular set of tiles which can be printed and cut out with dual versions of rooms that have secrets in them would be great and really make use of those fantastic graphics. You'd have my money right now if these were available. I bought the Map folio for RotRL and I'm really not sure what the tiny print-outs of the dungeon maps were supposed to do for me. I have a copy of those in the book which are also too small. They aren't something I'd show the players so what do they accomplish?

I don't think flip-mats of every dungeon in every AP is the answer, especially with the secret room problem and the cost, but a more modular approach with a PDF containing rooms to cut out would be very beneficial for DMs like me who have the funds to buy such things and have them printed but don't have the time to photoshop them ourselves. I have a couple of the flip mats but if they don't work with the adventures paths then I just won't have a chance to use them.

Synergy is great, and I support that whole-heartedly, but not just with other maps, it should be synergy with the adventure paths themselves.


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Dare I mention 3rd party products here? Fat Dragon Games has lines of printable 2D tiles and 3D pieces you cut out, fold, and glue together that are modular, flexible (in the sense you can put them together in lots of different ways, and relatively inexpensive. (If you make a lot of them, the biggest expense is probably the ink, but because of their modularity you usually only need to make a big set once.) Check out their Gallery on their forum; you'll find all sorts of amazing builds there. The forum is friendly and lively, too. (And fwiw, I'm just a fan and user of their stuff, I don't stand to gain from this plug.)


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Is there a list or a page somewhere with suggestions on how to synergize (sic)the map packs and flip maps?

Embarrassingly, I own a lot of them, but I rarely have time to look then all over and try to find ways to make them work together. I am surprised I even have time to put my games together.

Where can I go to get people's suggestions?

(yes... I am lame)

Cheliax

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Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:
The question I pose to you all on this fine autumn Tuesday is, "Are we on the right track?" Do you like the synergies in the mapping products? Have you noticed them? Are we going far enough? Let me know your mind on this matter and help me to create the best products for your Pathfinder game.

I do think you you are on the right track. Part of the reason I am newly subscribed to the Gamemastery Maps line is because of the quality of maps and their synergies to other maps/ modules/APs over the past year or so. I do think the envelope could be pushed a bit further if not at least become more versatile with regards to options.

I do appreciate the names of the flip-mats in the corners and would like to see this feature continued for my own sanity. I would like to see multiple map packs of shops for the City Streets Flip-Mat so that the "scene" is not the same every time. With that, I would also like to see different variations of City Streets to go with the existing Shops Map Pack but laid out in a different way.

With Reign of Winter coming up, I would like to see a blank Ice Flip-Mat w/Frozen Forest on the opposite side and a possible Ice Caverns Map Pack to go along with it. Other Map Packs could be the Ice Covered Crypt, Frozen Mountain Trail, and Lakes & Ponds.

I am also interested in seeing a blank Grassy Field Flip-Mat w/ a Waterfall cavern on the opposite side. Perhaps even a series of Flip-Mats (sold as a 2-pack maybe with one floor on each side) that flesh out an entire Cathedral/ Dungeon/ Castle floor by floor rather than a one level cram crawl. I feel the Hellscapes could benefit from such an idea. I would even think about creating a mega-map pack that can free form a dungeon as you go situation where the direction of the hallway is randomized based on the tile you place, doors are random, etc..

Different City scenes in different styles, as stated above, I agree with especially for regions around the Crown of the World and Tian Xia. These are just a few of my ideas. I hope the input helps.

Taldor

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Wolf Munroe wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:

One other thought, looking at some of the material Atlas Games produces.

Would it be possible to put encounter-specific elements on transparent plastic sheets, so that we could place them where we think appropriate, on any flip mat?

You mean like rubble, overgrowth, downed trees, or broken furniture printed on transparency sheets so it could be positioned in a scene as needed? That could be cool.

I've been a big advocate of this for a long time - printing small map objects on transparent plastic or on clingy plastic. Map overlays. The Gloom card game uses heavy plastic and it doesn't seem to be cost prohibitive. The idea of transportation/vehicles printed on plastic so that when your wagon crosses ice, it doesn't bring a little grassy patch with it, it fantastic.

Here on the Paizo site, these guys actually sell transparent cling terrain. I bought the sampler pack, it's cool. But yeah, with any fiddly bits, it's always the problem of having what you need when you need it

Contributor

Mosaic wrote:
Wolf Munroe wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:

One other thought, looking at some of the material Atlas Games produces.

Would it be possible to put encounter-specific elements on transparent plastic sheets, so that we could place them where we think appropriate, on any flip mat?

You mean like rubble, overgrowth, downed trees, or broken furniture printed on transparency sheets so it could be positioned in a scene as needed? That could be cool.

I've been a big advocate of this for a long time - printing small map objects on transparent plastic or on clingy plastic. Map overlays. The Gloom card game uses heavy plastic and it doesn't seem to be cost prohibitive. The idea of transportation/vehicles printed on plastic so that when your wagon crosses ice, it doesn't bring a little grassy patch with it, it fantastic.

Here on the Paizo site, these guys actually sell transparent cling terrain. I bought the sampler pack, it's cool. But yeah, with any fiddly bits, it's always the problem of having what you need when you need it

I'd love this. Also so you could put the rowboat on the beach, or let the have the carriage on the cobbles rather than having this weird patch of lawn in the middle of the city.

As it is, the only solution is to print out the PDFs, cut them out, then encase them in laminate or the really fancy variety of completely transparent card sleeves.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game Subscriber

The map products have become an incredibly more useful item for me due to the synergies mentioned.

I like many of the suggestions above.

The one improvement I would definitely like to see is a reduction in the release of Dungeon Flip-Mats. I think that niche should be filled with modular Map Packs instead: you could design the pack to represent a specific dungeon, but it could be reconfigured for other use.

With 3 Flip-Mats and 6 Map Packs released over the run of an AP, I would like to see one of each dedicated to the AP. These could be a general terrain type appropriate to the AP (ex Jungle for Serpents Skull), or a recurring location (like the Pirate Ship for Skull & Shackletons, or the Bandit Outpost for Kingmaker). Alternatively, they could be an iconic location from early in the Path (like the Glassworks, Eel's End, the Gold Goblin, the Licktoad village...). Most of these would also work well as generic locations (Ex Casino, Goblin Village). But mainly I think that using 2 of 9 map products to cater to the AP players and GMs is worthwhile, and a great opportunity to up the "Wow" factor early on.

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