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Mythic Adventures

Tuesday, August 28, 2012

Just over a week ago, at Gen Con, we announced the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game hardcover book due to come out next August: Mythic Adventures. Since then, there has been a fury of speculation and excitement about this book, so I thought I would give a recap of what we’ve said so far about this new addition to the game.

What is mythic?

The mythic rules offer a new way to play Pathfinder. It uses all the rules that you are familiar with, but it adds a new layer to the game. Mythic adventurers are elevated above their non-mythic counterparts, gaining powers and abilities beyond their reach that allow them to take on tougher foes and more daunting challenges. A mythic character takes on the agents of deities, rushes headlong into the abyss, and strives to build a legend, all while facing off against a wide variety of foes, from common monsters to other mythic characters. If Elric, Fafhrd, Gray Mouser, Hercules, or King Arthur were created in Pathfinder, they would be mythic characters.

Is this a replacement for epic rules?

Mythic is not epic. You can use the mythic rules with 1st-level characters just as easily as you can with 20th-level characters. You can even use the mythic rules to continue to grow in power once your PCs reach 20th level, taking on some of the toughest adversaries in the game, from ancient dragons to demon lords. Meanwhile a low-level mythic character might take on monsters that you are already familiar with, at a level where non-mythic characters would face certain doom.

So, how does mythic work?

Each mythic character must select a mythic path, which defines some of the powers and abilities he gains, in addition to a few features gained by all mythic characters. As a character advances, his mythic tier might increase. Starting at 1st tier, a mythic character is quite a bit more resilient and can draw upon his mythic power to accomplish incredible deeds. Once he reaches 10th tier (the upper limit of mythic power), he is an unstoppable force, akin to a demigod in some respects.

Mythic tiers are not gained by accumulating experience points. Instead, a mythic character has to accomplish a specific number of deeds to achieve the next tier of mythic power. Using this system, your mythic tier is not tied to your character level. You still gain XP as normal, still gain levels as normal, but occasionally you might increase your mythic tier as well, adding a few new mythic abilities and powers to your character.

It is important to note that while mythic rules add to the game, they do not necessarily make the game more complex.

What are the mythic paths?

The rules currently include six paths for a mythic character to choose from. Each path offers a unique set of abilities to choose from, as well as some abilities that appear in more than one path. The paths you can choose from are as follows:

Archmage: Master of arcane magic, able to call upon his mythic power to cast extra spells, penetrate defenses, and even cast greater versions of existing spells.

Champion: Unequalled in his skill with weapons and styles of fighting. The champion can call upon his mythic power to make devastating attacks, quickly move across any battlefield, and strike many foes with a single swing.

Hierophant: In tune with the gods, be they deities or the spirits of the natural world, the hierophant is the master of divine magic. The hierophant can heal even the most deadly wounds, bring back allies from the dead, and wield the power of the gods.

Marshal: A leader of unparalleled vision, the marshal elevates those around him, granting powerful abilities and bonuses to his allies, even if they are not mythic themselves. Entire armies flock to his banner, and his close friends find his council invaluable.

Trickster: The master of many deceptions, the trickster can influence the world around him in both subtle ways (with a smile) and more direct ways (with a dagger in the back).

Warden: Few can withstand the sort of punishment that the warden takes regularly. No foe frightens this warrior, because he knows that no blow could possibly lay him low. The warden uses his resiliency to protect his allies, the people around him, and the lands he calls home.

What else will be in Mythic Adventures?

In short, everything you need to add mythic rules to your game. The book will contain the mythic paths, deeds, feats, spells, magic items, artifacts, monsters, and a short sample adventure to get you started. In addition, Mythic Adventures will include plenty of tips and advice for playing a mythic character and running a mythic campaign. It will also feature ways that you can add mythic rules to your existing campaign, even if it’s only for an adventure or two.

Mythic monsters?

Oh yes. There will be mythic monsters. This book will include a selection of monsters, from upgrades of existing beasts, such as the mythic minotaur and medusa, to entirely new creations. In addition, there will be a number of simple templates and rules to allow a GM to make any monster mythic. There are also going to be a number of other toys to go in the GMs toolbox to help make a game that can challenge such powerful characters.

Can I have it NOW?

Not quite yet. Mythic Adventures will be released at Gen Con 2013, but you’ll get a chance to play with the rules well before that. We will be releasing a select portion of the rules set, to give you a chance to play with the rules, tell us what works and what needs work. This playtest will hopefully get underway by the end of September, but we will make sure to give you a firm date as soon as we have one. Until then, I want to leave you with this one little mythic rule for you to chew on.

Amazing Initiative (Ex): At 2nd tier, a mythic character gains a +20 mythic bonus on his initiative checks. In addition, he can spend one use of his mythic power each round to take an additional turn, treating his initiative for this second turn as his initiative roll without the +20 mythic bonus. Using this ability is a free action that must be decided at the end of his first action during the round.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

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Tags: Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
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7 people marked this as a favorite.

Imagines applying mythic rules to a 1st level party for anime-level mayhem. Can hear players drooling over the prospects already.

To chew on? That's a meal!


Brilliant, can't wait to hear more.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

I have one question I am not sure you can answer yet.

How will this be supported by other products?

Will there be support for this in the APs? Future Bestiaries? Etc.


Dragnmoon wrote:

I have one question I am not sure you can answer yet.

How will this be supported by other products?

Will there be support for this in the APs? Future Bestiaries? Etc.

It has been stated that the AP after Reign of Winter will have content in regards to this Ruleset.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm intrigued. I'll admit I'm not quite sure what to make of it, but it's definitely interesting.

I'm hoping for good things.

-Kcinlive

Silver Crusade

All alignments can use this I imagine right? Figuring out what path my Anti-Paladin/Rogue/Shadowdancer would go down..trickster or champion =)


This looks great!


Sounds awesome! It may be too early in the process to answer this question, but how tough would it be to use these rules with the Beginner Box for people who want to play low-level, rules-streamlined mythic adventures?


I can see my Alchemist taking Marshal as Mythic Path, since he is more of an advisor to the group instead of a heavy hitter or anything.


Ok, so technical question - is Amazing Initiative granted to all the 2nd tier mythic characters or is it tied to specific path or is this ability selected by the character from a list of 2nd tier mythic abilities.

Second question: it allows taking a second turn in the round by spending use of mythic power. Are they daily resource? How many of them is available per day/session/round/other time factor?

Hopefully the mythic paths will be build in a way leaving multiple choices to each class instead of being shoehorned into path (and the choices are more meaningful than Wizard is either (a) Archmage or (b) stupid).

Marathon Voter 2013

9 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If I was wearing a monocle, it would've dropped when I read Amazing Initiative.


Some friends who hate power-gaming might blanch at the idea of this book, but I'm excited! Sounds a bit like Planescape for Pathfinder, but with a rules system to support the interdimensional themes.

Marathon Voter 2013

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The Marshal excites me to no end.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yeah this looks like it will be ussable on many differnt levels (not just character levels either)

Liberty's Edge

I'm sold.

Lantern Lodge

I'm really hopeful for this product, Paizo has a great track record in my mind. But reading "Amazing Initiative" has me hoping we're not simply looking at "Mythic Arithmetic". Rolling a D20 becomes kind of a moot point when your bonuses already amount to +30 or higher. I'm hoping this system takes a different tact than simply adding in higher and higher bonuses. The game slows down enough as it is at higher levels, last thing I need is for my players to have to calculate even more bonuses into their actions.

That said I'm sure the creative minds at Paizo have some great ideas in mind, or they would have never pursued this product. I thought the witch, oracle, and other new base classes were brilliant revisions of the existing system, I'm hoping for something just as revolutionary for Mythic Adventures

Paizo Employee Editor-in-Chief

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dragnmoon wrote:

I have one question I am not sure you can answer yet.

How will this be supported by other products?

Will there be support for this in the APs? Future Bestiaries? Etc.

In a word: Yes.

In more words: We've got quite a bit planned to support Mythic Adventures, including a whole Adventure Path that features these new rules and a bunch more. Beyond that, these rules will be a new tool set for us to use in telling the stories we want to tell, in just the same way as options like the alchemist class or the haunt rules are. But, in the same way that every story we've told since producing rules for alchemists and haunts haven't featured alchemists and haunts, such will be the case with the mythic rules. So, in other words, expect lots of mythic stuff next year and more beyond that when we want to venture into that territory, but rest assured that everything will not be all mythic, all the time from here on out.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Do you see the Mythic Adventure rules integrating with Pathfinder Society in any way? How about with PFS characters?

Star Voter 2013

Woot! I was correct in my assumption of Amazing Initiative. At least the part about the extra turn which is very similar to the Maharaja Rakshasha ability Extra Initiative.

Extra Initiative wrote:
When an encounter starts, a maharaja rolls twice for initiative. The maharaja acts normally on the higher of the two initiative counts each round. On the lower initiative count, the maharaja can take a single standard action.

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I am sure this will be interesting but previewing a product that is a year away is a little much.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It could also make for a pretty memorable BBEG for a band of "normal" PCs to take on. In fact, there's a seed for a maltheist homebrew campaign: "Throughout history, there are those with whom the Gods found favor. Their names echo down the ages, and even now living legends walk among us, their inhuman power and skill evidence of the Gods' blessing on them in all things. You, however, know the truth about the Gods and their dark purposes, and you have pledged to stand against them. But how can ordinary mortals fight Myths?"

ETA: @Dragon78, I think this is more of a preview of the upcoming open playtest.

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dragon78 wrote:
I am sure this will be interesting but previewing a product that is a year away is a little much.

Well, I was actually previewing the playtest, that is due out in just over a month (hopefully, if all goes according to plan).

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

Danubus wrote:
All alignments can use this I imagine right? Figuring out what path my Anti-Paladin/Rogue/Shadowdancer would go down..trickster or champion =)

On that you are most certainly correct. Any alignment can use this system.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

And ninja'd by Jason!

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

7 people marked this as a favorite.
Kassegore wrote:
I'm really hopeful for this product, Paizo has a great track record in my mind. But reading "Amazing Initiative" has me hoping we're not simply looking at "Mythic Arithmetic". Rolling a D20 becomes kind of a moot point when your bonuses already amount to +30 or higher. I'm hoping this system takes a different tact than simply adding in higher and higher bonuses. The game slows down enough as it is at higher levels, last thing I need is for my players to have to calculate even more bonuses into their actions.

Actually, this is one of the few abilities that happens to grant numerical bonuses. Most of the other mythic features simply allow you to break certain rules of the game or do things you normally could not. Its usually not about bigger numbers, instead its about more impressive things you can do with your numbers.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing


xebeche wrote:
Do you see the Mythic Adventure rules integrating with Pathfinder Society in any way? How about with PFS characters?

I don't think it will happen :( That would require A LOT of rewrites to make up for the power increase this sounds like it will bring (I mean, seriously, two turns in a round? That sounds like it would increase the CR of things...)

Star Voter 2013

Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Kassegore wrote:
I'm really hopeful for this product, Paizo has a great track record in my mind. But reading "Amazing Initiative" has me hoping we're not simply looking at "Mythic Arithmetic". Rolling a D20 becomes kind of a moot point when your bonuses already amount to +30 or higher. I'm hoping this system takes a different tact than simply adding in higher and higher bonuses. The game slows down enough as it is at higher levels, last thing I need is for my players to have to calculate even more bonuses into their actions.

Actually, this is one of the few abilities that happens to grant numerical bonuses. Most of the other mythic features simply allow you to break certain rules of the game or do things you normally could not. Its usually not about bigger numbers, instead its about more impressive things you can do with your numbers.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Maybe you should give such an example so it doesn't appear to be all numbers?

And yes, this is totally me trying to get another sneak peak.

Star Voter 2013

Also, really glad you adopted Mythic 'Tiers' instead of levels.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So right now it basically looks like we have one Mythic Path for each ability score. What about for the hybrid classes? Which path would a Magus look for? What about a Nature-focused path? I assume the intent is to have more like three dozen paths for the finished book rather than just the six, correct?

Marathon Voter 2013

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

What point buy are the internal playtests done at?

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kvantum wrote:
So right now it basically looks like we have one Mythic Path for each ability score. What about for the hybrid classes? Which path would a Magus look for? What about a Nature-focused path? I assume the intent is to have more like three dozen paths for the finished book rather than just the six, correct?

I was wondering when someone would catch on to that little correlation. You even beat the folks here in the office. As for the hybrid classes, there will be an option that allows you to get into more than one path.

As for their being a large number of paths, currently I am trying to settle on six just to prevent too much bloat. That said, each path has a very large number of options built into it, allowing you to explore each one a little differently.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Tels wrote:
Also, really glad you adopted Mythic 'Tiers' instead of levels.

Me too. That was a great suggestion from the boards and while it caused me to loose a few hours in rewrites, it certainly adds a lot of clarity.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
I was wondering when someone would catch on to that little correlation. You even beat the folks here in the office. As for the hybrid classes, there will be an option that allows you to get into more than one path.

I am so proud right now. :D

OK, so long as there's a good way to adapt to anything other than Fighter/Rogue/Barbarian/Wizard/Cleric/Bard for Mythic Paths, I'll just wait.

Scarab Sages

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Counter question to whether this would see additional support, like in the Adventure Paths... will we continue to see support for NOT using this as well? At the moment I'm not that interested in running the Exalted version of Pathfinder. Will both forms of play receive support, or will I need to unsub from the Adventure Paths because they won't be useful to me any more?


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Tels wrote:
Also, really glad you adopted Mythic 'Tiers' instead of levels.

Me too. That was a great suggestion from the boards and while it caused me to loose a few hours in rewrites, it certainly adds a lot of clarity.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Cool! Sorry about those hours, though. :)


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion Subscriber
Jason Bulmahn wrote:


Me too. That was a great suggestion from the boards and while it caused me to loose a few hours in rewrites, it certainly adds a lot of clarity.

Hey, if a few hours now will cut down on endless hours of this in the future, it'll be well worth it.


Hooray! We're getting a playtest! Please, PLEASE include the Warden in the playtest. My Players are planning to take on Achilles soon, and I'd love to make him as indestructible as the myths propose.

...Catch Phrase,

-Chris


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

I was sort of take it/leave it on Epic rules, but Mythic has me VERY interested. Already my inner-GM is salivating over the GM toolbox ideas.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I wasn't a fan of the game when I played it that one time because of all the freakin' d10s to keep track of, but the Mythic Tiers sound like something that one could pull off with an extraordinary move that one would have done in low levels in a game such as Exalted (as I'm not a manga / anime fan. I may be in the minority on this site).

I've really not held much interest or have even played Epic Level adventures from the 3.x series aside from collecting the titles like any other hoarder.

But this sounds much more appealing and accessible at lower levels to touch certain tiers when you are allotted to do so within reason w/o over exploiting the mythical attributes. It's like those surges you get when your child is trapped under a car and you're that 90 lb woman that summons the strength to lift that car out and rescue her child. But she couldn't repeat that task again and over again. Chalk it up to maternal protective instincts and an adrenaline surge.

Intrigued I am, Jason. Intrigued.

P.S. Those Bulmahnauts could use some Mythic Tiers.


Will the book also support playing as mythic races? Or at least have some guidelines for using the existing using Monsters as PCs rules with this?

Specifically, good rules for playing as dragons.

Looks interesting, regardless.

Lantern Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

This sounds like it actually could add a really amazing aspect to E6. I realize that might hit some as counter intuitive, and maybe you might have to be like E6M2 (or what ever arbitrary mythic level seems right).

Just the idea of E6 getting you into an ability and mechanic sweet spot, this might enhance it into the mythic realm, without breaking the feel or flow in a negative way.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Jason Bulmahn wrote:

Actually, this is one of the few abilities that happens to grant numerical bonuses. Most of the other mythic features simply allow you to break certain rules of the game or do things you normally could not. Its usually not about bigger numbers, instead its about more impressive things you can do with your numbers.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Could we please see an example of a mythic feature that is more typical of what we'll be seeing, something that is is not "Mythic Arithmetic?"

-Matt

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Having played a tricked-out 3.5 psion who regularly burned through daily resources to take extra actions, I can say with confidence that amazing initiative is going to introduce some of the worst flaws of the 3.5 psionics system into Paizo's mythic rules.

Is there an existing thread where I can post my actual, in-game experience with mechanics similar to amazing initiative, or should I wait until Paizo creates a dedicated playtest forum before explaining how amazing initiative is going to cause serious problems?

Star Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Andrew Johnson 47 wrote:
Will the book also support playing as mythic races? Or at least have some guidelines for using the existing using Monsters as PCs rules with this?

Some good ideas here for things that they could possibly include!

Just in case some who are reading this blog aren't aware of it, there is a thread on the forum for suggestions on things to include in Mythic Adventures.

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

9 people marked this as a favorite.

Alright, one little spoiler...

This is a path ability that the champion can select.

Fleet Warrior (Ex): When the champion takes a full-attack action can also move up to his speed either before or after the attack. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. The champion must be at least 5th tier before selecting this ability.

I should also note that we have put in some abilities to actually make the math easier, such as a champion ability that allows them to ignore the –5 penalty on additional attacks made as part of a full-attack action. Add one number to two dice is easier than adding two different numbers to two dice.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion Subscriber
Epic Meepo wrote:

Having played a tricked-out 3.5 psion who regularly burned through daily resources to take extra actions, I can say with confidence that amazing initiative is going to introduce some of the worst flaws of the 3.5 psionics system into Paizo's mythic rules.

Is there an existing thread where I can post my actual, in-game experience with mechanics similar to amazing initiative, or should I wait until Paizo creates a dedicated playtest forum before explaining how amazing initiative is going to cause serious problems?

I'd suggest waiting until the playtest materials and associated forum are available, myself. Because otherwise it's going to look like a "sky is falling" thread based on a tiny part of a preview of a much larger ruleset and any good points you may have on the subject are less likely to be taken seriously.


Will there be mythic racial stuff as well, either its own tiers, or included in the other 6 mythic 'trees'?

Marathon Voter 2013

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So a pounce-like ability is 5th tier. That'll be useful for many things, including designing new abilities.

Scarab Sages

Cheapy wrote:
If I was wearing a monocle, it would've dropped when I read Amazing Initiative.

I was dreading these 'mythic' powers being as lame and unimpressive as some of the so-called 'Epic' feats from 3.X (which, in some cases, were drek like Epic Alchemy, which wouldn't be out of line for a 5th level character...).

But no, Amazing Initiative was pretty hot.

And the notion that you could run a 1st level Mythic game? Way hot. Like, on fire. With much burning.

Marathon Voter 2013

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Will the playtest include rough equivalencies between mythic/non-mythics?

So for example, 2N6M (2nd level normal, 6th tier mythic) would be equal to about a 12th level character?

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