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Mythic Adventures

Tuesday, August 28, 2012

Just over a week ago, at Gen Con, we announced the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game hardcover book due to come out next August: Mythic Adventures. Since then, there has been a fury of speculation and excitement about this book, so I thought I would give a recap of what we’ve said so far about this new addition to the game.

What is mythic?

The mythic rules offer a new way to play Pathfinder. It uses all the rules that you are familiar with, but it adds a new layer to the game. Mythic adventurers are elevated above their non-mythic counterparts, gaining powers and abilities beyond their reach that allow them to take on tougher foes and more daunting challenges. A mythic character takes on the agents of deities, rushes headlong into the abyss, and strives to build a legend, all while facing off against a wide variety of foes, from common monsters to other mythic characters. If Elric, Fafhrd, Gray Mouser, Hercules, or King Arthur were created in Pathfinder, they would be mythic characters.

Is this a replacement for epic rules?

Mythic is not epic. You can use the mythic rules with 1st-level characters just as easily as you can with 20th-level characters. You can even use the mythic rules to continue to grow in power once your PCs reach 20th level, taking on some of the toughest adversaries in the game, from ancient dragons to demon lords. Meanwhile a low-level mythic character might take on monsters that you are already familiar with, at a level where non-mythic characters would face certain doom.

So, how does mythic work?

Each mythic character must select a mythic path, which defines some of the powers and abilities he gains, in addition to a few features gained by all mythic characters. As a character advances, his mythic tier might increase. Starting at 1st tier, a mythic character is quite a bit more resilient and can draw upon his mythic power to accomplish incredible deeds. Once he reaches 10th tier (the upper limit of mythic power), he is an unstoppable force, akin to a demigod in some respects.

Mythic tiers are not gained by accumulating experience points. Instead, a mythic character has to accomplish a specific number of deeds to achieve the next tier of mythic power. Using this system, your mythic tier is not tied to your character level. You still gain XP as normal, still gain levels as normal, but occasionally you might increase your mythic tier as well, adding a few new mythic abilities and powers to your character.

It is important to note that while mythic rules add to the game, they do not necessarily make the game more complex.

What are the mythic paths?

The rules currently include six paths for a mythic character to choose from. Each path offers a unique set of abilities to choose from, as well as some abilities that appear in more than one path. The paths you can choose from are as follows:

Archmage: Master of arcane magic, able to call upon his mythic power to cast extra spells, penetrate defenses, and even cast greater versions of existing spells.

Champion: Unequalled in his skill with weapons and styles of fighting. The champion can call upon his mythic power to make devastating attacks, quickly move across any battlefield, and strike many foes with a single swing.

Hierophant: In tune with the gods, be they deities or the spirits of the natural world, the hierophant is the master of divine magic. The hierophant can heal even the most deadly wounds, bring back allies from the dead, and wield the power of the gods.

Marshal: A leader of unparalleled vision, the marshal elevates those around him, granting powerful abilities and bonuses to his allies, even if they are not mythic themselves. Entire armies flock to his banner, and his close friends find his council invaluable.

Trickster: The master of many deceptions, the trickster can influence the world around him in both subtle ways (with a smile) and more direct ways (with a dagger in the back).

Warden: Few can withstand the sort of punishment that the warden takes regularly. No foe frightens this warrior, because he knows that no blow could possibly lay him low. The warden uses his resiliency to protect his allies, the people around him, and the lands he calls home.

What else will be in Mythic Adventures?

In short, everything you need to add mythic rules to your game. The book will contain the mythic paths, deeds, feats, spells, magic items, artifacts, monsters, and a short sample adventure to get you started. In addition, Mythic Adventures will include plenty of tips and advice for playing a mythic character and running a mythic campaign. It will also feature ways that you can add mythic rules to your existing campaign, even if it’s only for an adventure or two.

Mythic monsters?

Oh yes. There will be mythic monsters. This book will include a selection of monsters, from upgrades of existing beasts, such as the mythic minotaur and medusa, to entirely new creations. In addition, there will be a number of simple templates and rules to allow a GM to make any monster mythic. There are also going to be a number of other toys to go in the GMs toolbox to help make a game that can challenge such powerful characters.

Can I have it NOW?

Not quite yet. Mythic Adventures will be released at Gen Con 2013, but you’ll get a chance to play with the rules well before that. We will be releasing a select portion of the rules set, to give you a chance to play with the rules, tell us what works and what needs work. This playtest will hopefully get underway by the end of September, but we will make sure to give you a firm date as soon as we have one. Until then, I want to leave you with this one little mythic rule for you to chew on.

Amazing Initiative (Ex): At 2nd tier, a mythic character gains a +20 mythic bonus on his initiative checks. In addition, he can spend one use of his mythic power each round to take an additional turn, treating his initiative for this second turn as his initiative roll without the +20 mythic bonus. Using this ability is a free action that must be decided at the end of his first action during the round.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

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By way of bringing things back on topic, it occurred to me that if Mythic does let us get more mileage out of the existing levels (and therefore the existing bonuses, DCs, and balance math), then it could stand in for a kind of super-powered Epic 6.

With Epic 6, the idea is that you could throw a CR 10 challenge at an APL 6 party if they had enough post-6th feats from experience to close the gap.

Obviously, one of the goals of E6 is to "feel" less superpowered, and in the case of Mythic, it is to feel more superpowered (or so it seems thus far). But in terms of making the underlying math stretch for more gameplay, they share some features.

I recall a lot of these ideas cropping up in discussions over the past few years; not extending the math, "fixing" the upper existing levels before proceeding, incorporating E6 type variable end-game logics. None could say for certain that those discussions are at play in the designers' minds, but it's still pretty cool that Mythic moves forward in so many of those directions.

I'm really looking forward to it, and thus I am ending my self-imposed exile from the open playtest forums!


If Mythic Adventures is the only access to higher levels then I'm guessing there will be books compatible with it such as Mythic Adventure modules, Mythic Beastiaries, Mythic Super Power Campaign books for Gods, Devils, Demons,Giant Space Demons, Dimensional Space Ghost, Warpers, etc... Etc.. This is another branch on the tree of Pathfinder life. I must say this took me by quite a suprise since I was expecting a book of epic high levels.

Paizo Employee Paizo Glitterati Robot

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Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm getting so impatient waiting.


This system does take care of one potential problem with epic levels -- the capstone ability at maximum level. If each mythic tier is equivalent in power to a character level and you should typically get no more than one mythic tier per two character levels, then at level 20/mythic tier 10 you are equivalent in power to a 30th level character. However, you would have gotten the capstone ability for your class at the equivalent of 29th level, and the 10th tier capstone ability at 30th level, meaning that you still get the best goodies at the end of the campaign. It is quite an elegant idea.

One thing I am curious to see is how well different combinations of levels and mythic tiers scale. For example, let's say that a regular player in our campaign with a 10th level character is granted his 1st mythic tier. Then an intermittent player whose character was 7th level the last time he played with us rejoins the game. Our usual approach would be to grant him enough levels to put him one level behind the regular player. Would 3 regular levels do the job? Or how about 3 mythic tiers? Or some combination in between? I am looking forward to finding out whether any combination would work, or whether things have to be better fine tuned.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Omgggggg *DTs*


Is there going to be support for the alchemist? Given the six mythic archetypes, I'm having trouble seeing where the alchemist actually fits in there.

Kinda a spellcaster, not really an archmage, not a hierophant...but not a warden, champion, trickster or marshal either. Sure, you can probably shoehorn the alchemist into one or more of those paths, but none seem to follow as a natural progression, as does archmage from wizard/sorc, hierophant from cleric/oracle, warden/champion from fighter/ranger/barb, marshal from bard/cavalier, trickster from rogue.

Hard to see where alchemist thematically fits here. Hope it isn't left out.

Shadow Lodge

Friendlyfish wrote:

Is there going to be support for the alchemist? Given the six mythic archetypes, I'm having trouble seeing where the alchemist actually fits in there.

Kinda a spellcaster, not really an archmage, not a hierophant...but not a warden, champion, trickster or marshal either. Sure, you can probably shoehorn the alchemist into one or more of those paths, but none seem to follow as a natural progression, as does archmage from wizard/sorc, hierophant from cleric/oracle, warden/champion from fighter/ranger/barb, marshal from bard/cavalier, trickster from rogue.

Hard to see where alchemist thematically fits here. Hope it isn't left out.

I think the mythic archetypes are going to be broader than that. Also it depends how you play your alchemist. As an example, I play an alchemist that's focused on his mutagen and goes into melee frequently so the champion would fit me perfectly.


Hecknoshow wrote:
Friendlyfish wrote:

Is there going to be support for the alchemist? Given the six mythic archetypes, I'm having trouble seeing where the alchemist actually fits in there.

Kinda a spellcaster, not really an archmage, not a hierophant...but not a warden, champion, trickster or marshal either. Sure, you can probably shoehorn the alchemist into one or more of those paths, but none seem to follow as a natural progression, as does archmage from wizard/sorc, hierophant from cleric/oracle, warden/champion from fighter/ranger/barb, marshal from bard/cavalier, trickster from rogue.

Hard to see where alchemist thematically fits here. Hope it isn't left out.

I think the mythic archetypes are going to be broader than that. Also it depends how you play your alchemist. As an example, I play an alchemist that's focused on his mutagen and goes into melee frequently so the champion would fit me perfectly.

Jason already stated that the six Mythic path represent one of the six ability score. And it might be possible to "multiclass" in more than one path.

Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Kvantum wrote:
So right now it basically looks like we have one Mythic Path for each ability score. What about for the hybrid classes? Which path would a Magus look for? What about a Nature-focused path? I assume the intent is to have more like three dozen paths for the finished book rather than just the six, correct?

I was wondering when someone would catch on to that little correlation. You even beat the folks here in the office. As for the hybrid classes, there will be an option that allows you to get into more than one path.

As for their being a large number of paths, currently I am trying to settle on six just to prevent too much bloat. That said, each path has a very large number of options built into it, allowing you to explore each one a little differently.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing


Really?, multiclass? that is the solution? that sucks, at least for me, I never liked to multiclass


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
edduardco wrote:
Really?, multiclass? that is the solution? that sucks, at least for me, I never liked to multiclass

He did not say it was the solution, only a possiblility. YOu can take any of the 6 paths based on stats without a problem, just some of us who do like to multiclass have that option also.

More options is a good thing.


I made a post back on Page 7 that recorded a bunch of stuff revealed in the Podcast. One of the things was a Mythic Feat called Dual-Pathed which allows you to select a second Mythic Path to follow. Every time you gain a new Tier, you can select a Mythic Ability from either path (but only 1 ability). So those multi-class characters will be able to customize their Mythicness if they wish to.


Mordo wrote:
Jason already stated that the six Mythic path represent one of the six ability score. And it might be possible to "multiclass" in more than one path.

Not quite, Mordo. You can attach any ability score to any path. Int-based champions, Wis-Based archmages, Dex-based hierophants, and Con-based trickers are all quite allowed.


Jackissocool wrote:
Mordo wrote:
Jason already stated that the six Mythic path represent one of the six ability score. And it might be possible to "multiclass" in more than one path.
Not quite, Mordo. You can attach any ability score to any path. Int-based champions, Wis-Based archmages, Dex-based hierophants, and Con-based trickers are all quite allowed.

I haven't said you couldn't, I said that Jason stated that the six Mythic Path are based on an ability score.


Yo dawg I herd you like playtests


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Odraude wrote:
Yo dawg I herd you like playtests

Wherever that facebook link went to its currently unavailable. I think this rates a

"NOOOOOOOOOOO!"

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Vexous wrote:
Odraude wrote:
Yo dawg I herd you like playtests

Wherever that facebook link went to its currently unavailable. I think this rates a

"NOOOOOOOOOOO!"

I'll rehost.

From Jason Bulmahn, Game Designer FB page:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v175/krypt0nian/junk/194161_4755800424622 60_1850311669_o.jpg


Drat, wonder why it broke?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

OMG why is the link broke!

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Winter_Born's image, linkified


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Joe Wells wrote:
Winter_Born's image, linkified

Yessssssss


We want the document, not the image of the document! :)

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So does that mean it launches next week?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Stratagemini wrote:
So does that mean it launches next week?

God I hope so.


That is hefty.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game Subscriber

Well he said it would be about 2 weeks after he finished to go through editing and layout.

Silver Crusade

Joe Wells wrote:
Winter_Born's image, linkified

Cheers, Joe!


Joe Wells wrote:
Winter_Born's image, linkified

Now this is a good example of what "titillating" means.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme


John Helton wrote:
gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme


Tels wrote:
John Helton wrote:
gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
A Ninja wrote:
Tels wrote:
John Helton wrote:
gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme


What you did there... I see it...


Starsunder wrote:
A Ninja wrote:
Tels wrote:
John Helton wrote:
gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Odraude wrote:
What you did there... I see it...

Co-co-co-combo breaker!!!!


Jackissocool wrote:
Starsunder wrote:
A Ninja wrote:
Tels wrote:
John Helton wrote:
gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme


havoc xiii wrote:
Jackissocool wrote:
Starsunder wrote:
A Ninja wrote:
Tels wrote:
John Helton wrote:
gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme


There's no rule that says you can't make up your own Mythic-style rules and publish them (while following all the usual legal procedures, of course). Paizo doesn't hold a monopoly on creative talent so if you are dissatisfied with the delay then why not take up the challenge yourself? Let's be happy to see the playtest rules when they do arrive and be content with all that is already available till then.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Heads up, True Believers!

The Bullman posted this today on his Facebook page:

"For any who might be interested.. the Mythic Playtest document got turned over to the editors yesterday. Its going to take a bit to get it ready for release, but it should be quite soon..."

Celebrate!


Whoo hoo now if I can tear my group away from borderlands 2


Talonhawke wrote:
Whoo hoo now if I can tear my group away from borderlands 2

I feel the same way about Torchlight 2/XCOM


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I feel the same way about Pokemon Black/White 2.

....Don't judge me.


Starsunder wrote:

I feel the same way about Pokemon Black/White 2.

....Don't judge me.

lol

Dark Archive

Fantastic. It´s like playing super heroes in medieval fantasy! I my self have play with the rules some time ago to make a campaing with this kind of touch. And now...i just can´t wai. Hope for the playtest.


Any word on the playtest stuff yet?

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