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Mythic Adventures

Tuesday, August 28, 2012

Just over a week ago, at Gen Con, we announced the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game hardcover book due to come out next August: Mythic Adventures. Since then, there has been a fury of speculation and excitement about this book, so I thought I would give a recap of what we’ve said so far about this new addition to the game.

What is mythic?

The mythic rules offer a new way to play Pathfinder. It uses all the rules that you are familiar with, but it adds a new layer to the game. Mythic adventurers are elevated above their non-mythic counterparts, gaining powers and abilities beyond their reach that allow them to take on tougher foes and more daunting challenges. A mythic character takes on the agents of deities, rushes headlong into the abyss, and strives to build a legend, all while facing off against a wide variety of foes, from common monsters to other mythic characters. If Elric, Fafhrd, Gray Mouser, Hercules, or King Arthur were created in Pathfinder, they would be mythic characters.

Is this a replacement for epic rules?

Mythic is not epic. You can use the mythic rules with 1st-level characters just as easily as you can with 20th-level characters. You can even use the mythic rules to continue to grow in power once your PCs reach 20th level, taking on some of the toughest adversaries in the game, from ancient dragons to demon lords. Meanwhile a low-level mythic character might take on monsters that you are already familiar with, at a level where non-mythic characters would face certain doom.

So, how does mythic work?

Each mythic character must select a mythic path, which defines some of the powers and abilities he gains, in addition to a few features gained by all mythic characters. As a character advances, his mythic tier might increase. Starting at 1st tier, a mythic character is quite a bit more resilient and can draw upon his mythic power to accomplish incredible deeds. Once he reaches 10th tier (the upper limit of mythic power), he is an unstoppable force, akin to a demigod in some respects.

Mythic tiers are not gained by accumulating experience points. Instead, a mythic character has to accomplish a specific number of deeds to achieve the next tier of mythic power. Using this system, your mythic tier is not tied to your character level. You still gain XP as normal, still gain levels as normal, but occasionally you might increase your mythic tier as well, adding a few new mythic abilities and powers to your character.

It is important to note that while mythic rules add to the game, they do not necessarily make the game more complex.

What are the mythic paths?

The rules currently include six paths for a mythic character to choose from. Each path offers a unique set of abilities to choose from, as well as some abilities that appear in more than one path. The paths you can choose from are as follows:

Archmage: Master of arcane magic, able to call upon his mythic power to cast extra spells, penetrate defenses, and even cast greater versions of existing spells.

Champion: Unequalled in his skill with weapons and styles of fighting. The champion can call upon his mythic power to make devastating attacks, quickly move across any battlefield, and strike many foes with a single swing.

Hierophant: In tune with the gods, be they deities or the spirits of the natural world, the hierophant is the master of divine magic. The hierophant can heal even the most deadly wounds, bring back allies from the dead, and wield the power of the gods.

Marshal: A leader of unparalleled vision, the marshal elevates those around him, granting powerful abilities and bonuses to his allies, even if they are not mythic themselves. Entire armies flock to his banner, and his close friends find his council invaluable.

Trickster: The master of many deceptions, the trickster can influence the world around him in both subtle ways (with a smile) and more direct ways (with a dagger in the back).

Warden: Few can withstand the sort of punishment that the warden takes regularly. No foe frightens this warrior, because he knows that no blow could possibly lay him low. The warden uses his resiliency to protect his allies, the people around him, and the lands he calls home.

What else will be in Mythic Adventures?

In short, everything you need to add mythic rules to your game. The book will contain the mythic paths, deeds, feats, spells, magic items, artifacts, monsters, and a short sample adventure to get you started. In addition, Mythic Adventures will include plenty of tips and advice for playing a mythic character and running a mythic campaign. It will also feature ways that you can add mythic rules to your existing campaign, even if it’s only for an adventure or two.

Mythic monsters?

Oh yes. There will be mythic monsters. This book will include a selection of monsters, from upgrades of existing beasts, such as the mythic minotaur and medusa, to entirely new creations. In addition, there will be a number of simple templates and rules to allow a GM to make any monster mythic. There are also going to be a number of other toys to go in the GMs toolbox to help make a game that can challenge such powerful characters.

Can I have it NOW?

Not quite yet. Mythic Adventures will be released at Gen Con 2013, but you’ll get a chance to play with the rules well before that. We will be releasing a select portion of the rules set, to give you a chance to play with the rules, tell us what works and what needs work. This playtest will hopefully get underway by the end of September, but we will make sure to give you a firm date as soon as we have one. Until then, I want to leave you with this one little mythic rule for you to chew on.

Amazing Initiative (Ex): At 2nd tier, a mythic character gains a +20 mythic bonus on his initiative checks. In addition, he can spend one use of his mythic power each round to take an additional turn, treating his initiative for this second turn as his initiative roll without the +20 mythic bonus. Using this ability is a free action that must be decided at the end of his first action during the round.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

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Tags: Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
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I wonder how the Amazing Initiative ability works with abilities that kick in a the beginning of turns such as Fast Healing.


You get to act twice, not to be affected twice by 1/round effects, be they positive or negative. And your turn start begins with the first time you act in a round, as always.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Zombie Ninja wrote:

I have to chime in and say I'm a little disappointed. I really would have liked to have epic level rules, and this sounds like a source book to add 4e elements to a pathfinder game. Likely to attract the now disenfranchised 4e players. Don't get me wrong it's a great idea on paizo's part why not get the 4e crowd who wont switch to 5e. But, I honestly wanted epic.

I don't know, Paizo is a great company and they managed to sell me on products I though I wouldn't like before so maybe I'm wrong.

As someone who is not a fan of 4e, is not interested in "traditional" epic-level play, but is trying to assess this new Mythic system, I don't see what you're seeing - at all. YMMV.

Dark Archive

Interesting. Basically what we've been doing all along. :-)


BPorter wrote:
As someone who is not a fan of 4e, is not interested in "traditional" epic-level play, but is trying to assess this new Mythic system, I don't see what you're seeing - at all. YMMV.

Maybe because it uses the word "tier"?


Well, after some thought I must admit that there is some semblance to 4th edition Epic Destinies. In fact I think that there would be place for additional, more exotic Mythic Paths besides core six based on Epic Destinies.

Contributor

1 person marked this as a favorite.
jasin wrote:

There are several reasons why I dislike this:

1) From a design elegance standpoint, it doesn't seem like a good idea to subvert the level = power paradigm without a very good reason.

2) Pathfinder PC's really don't need more abilities. By 10th level, most PCs already have more than most players can comfortably keep in mind and handle in play.

3) Conceptually, I positively hate the idea that "If Elric, Fafhrd, Gray Mouser, Hercules, or King Arthur were created in Pathfinder, they would be mythic characters." What do the default game and the default characters model then?

1) You mean like adding templates to NPCs adding levels to monsters? Those both break the "level = power paradigm."

2) The plan for these rules is that most mythic abilities will actually make things *simpler* for players by letting you eliminate exceptions and quirks to the rules that makes playing so hard to remember. Frex (and not that this is actually an ability), a champion power that completely removes the limit to the number of AOOs you can make in a round... no more tracking whether you've hit a limit or not, it's just "if that provokes, I'm taking the AOO."

3) Hercules was the son of Zeus even before he was level 1. He was immortal from the get-go. As a baby, Hera sent snakes into his crib and he strangled them to death. You can't express these abilities with the normal, non-mythic character rules--there's no way a baby could defeat two venomous snakes on his own, there's no way to model him being immortal in normal game rules. The mythic rules let you have characters who are truly exceptional compared to normal adventurers. In the same way that Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, and Aquaman are all "superheroes" compared to normal people, there's clearly a difference between what Superman and Wonder Woman can do than what Batman and Aquaman can do... and it has nothing to do with their character level.


thejeff wrote:
BPorter wrote:
Maybe because it uses the word "tier"?
They were initially called levels, but there are so many definitions of that word in the game already, it made sense (as people suggested in the earlier mythic thread from GenCon) to change it to something else. Yes, 4e has tiers, but it also has levels, orcs, and Strength... :)

I'm not sure what happened here.

I quoted BPorter's earlier post and I wrote what is attributed to him here. I have no idea who wrote what is attributed to me here or where my original post went.


Drejk wrote:
Well, after some thought I must admit that there is some semblance to 4th edition Epic Destinies. In fact I think that there would be place for additional, more exotic Mythic Paths besides core six based on Epic Destinies.

Some vague similarities. Except you can get Mythic tiers at any level and don't earn them with normal experience, they aren't just the top 3rd of the standard level progression.


Sean K Reynolds wrote:
1) You mean like adding templates to NPCs adding levels to monsters? Those both break the "level = power paradigm."

Also, the division between monster HD and CR.

thejeff wrote:
Drejk wrote:
Well, after some thought I must admit that there is some semblance to 4th edition Epic Destinies. In fact I think that there would be place for additional, more exotic Mythic Paths besides core six based on Epic Destinies.
Some vague similarities. Except you can get Mythic tiers at any level and don't earn them with normal experience, they aren't just the top 3rd of the standard level progression.

Yeah, that's why this is some semblance. You still select them in addition to actual class(es) and represent the character's path to being a legend. Still, I felt that Epic Destinies were good idea but not developed enough to be what they were supposed to be.


Here is a question for the developers at Paizo: I know of a 3rd party publisher that published a prestige class called a "Mythic Fighter". Is that name likely to cause any sort of confusion down the road? I am getting the idea that this product will be setting up some very specific expectations about "mythic" characters that cannot possibly be met by any product that is published before Mythic Adventures is.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:
You spend 10 years as a medical doctor, 2 as a soldier. Which are you more, a medical doctor or a soldier. You may have been fully indoctrinated as a soldier and embraced their philosophies and culture, but you are still more a doctor.

Once a Marine, always a Marine. Next question?

Star Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014, Dedicated Voter 2015

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
The mythic rules let you have characters who are truly exceptional compared to normal adventurers. In the same way that Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, and Aquaman are all "superheroes" compared to normal people, there's clearly a difference between what Superman and Wonder Woman can do than what Batman and Aquaman can do... and it has nothing to do with their character level.

Aha! So Mythic Adventures is a precursor to Pathfinder Supers! :p

(But seriously, I'm wondering if these rules might not be a good basis on which to develop something along those lines for Pathfinder now. Can't wait till the playtest!)

Contributor

1 person marked this as a favorite.
thejeff wrote:
thejeff wrote:
BPorter wrote:
Maybe because it uses the word "tier"?
They were initially called levels, but there are so many definitions of that word in the game already, it made sense (as people suggested in the earlier mythic thread from GenCon) to change it to something else. Yes, 4e has tiers, but it also has levels, orcs, and Strength... :)

I'm not sure what happened here.

I quoted BPorter's earlier post and I wrote what is attributed to him here. I have no idea who wrote what is attributed to me here or where my original post went.

Sean was up early this morning and accidentally, sleepily, edited your post instead of replying to it. He's going to go back and fix it now, and hope that nobody notices... :p

What I had planned to say as a reply: They [tiers] were initially called levels, but there are so many definitions of that word in the game already, it made sense (as people suggested in the earlier mythic thread from GenCon) to change it to something else. Yes, 4e has tiers, but it also has levels, orcs, and Strength... :)

Contributor

1 person marked this as a favorite.
David knott 242 wrote:
Here is a question for the developers at Paizo: I know of a 3rd party publisher that published a prestige class called a "Mythic Fighter". Is that name likely to cause any sort of confusion down the road? I am getting the idea that this product will be setting up some very specific expectations about "mythic" characters that cannot possibly be met by any product that is published before Mythic Adventures is.

It is possible that whoever bought that 3PP product may be confused when they read Paizo's mythic book. But it's in the same way that a 3PP could have published a book about ninjas and gunslingers before Ultimate Combat, and some people may be confused by this.

Really, it can't be helped.

I hear the original meanings for "gorgon," "pegasus," "medusa," and "minotaur" aren't what they are in D&D/Pathfinder, either. ;)


Sean K Reynolds wrote:
I hear the original meanings for "gorgon," "pegasus," "medusa," and "minotaur" aren't what they are in D&D/Pathfinder, either. ;)

Like, per chance, they could be unique entities. Or even, *gasp* Medusa could be one of the Gorgons?!

Maybe even that would apply to many other creatures from bestiaries?!


Sean K Reynolds wrote:
thejeff wrote:
thejeff wrote:
BPorter wrote:
Maybe because it uses the word "tier"?
They were initially called levels, but there are so many definitions of that word in the game already, it made sense (as people suggested in the earlier mythic thread from GenCon) to change it to something else. Yes, 4e has tiers, but it also has levels, orcs, and Strength... :)

I'm not sure what happened here.

I quoted BPorter's earlier post and I wrote what is attributed to him here. I have no idea who wrote what is attributed to me here or where my original post went.

Sean was up early this morning and accidentally, sleepily, edited your post instead of replying to it. He's going to go back and fix it now, and hope that nobody notices... :p

I thought it must have been something like that, but I didn't think of you doing it, so I didn't see how someone could have edited my post.

Now it makes sense.


Sean K Reynolds wrote:

Sean was up early this morning and accidentally, sleepily, edited your post instead of replying to it. He's going to go back and fix it now, and hope that nobody notices... :p

Heh. Well, an accidental edit isn't so bad. On the old WotC forums, one of the moderators once accidentally deleted an entire subforum..


Sean K Reynolds wrote:
In the same way that Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, and Aquaman are all "superheroes" compared to normal people, there's clearly a difference between what Superman and Wonder Woman can do than what Batman and Aquaman can do... and it has nothing to do with their character level.

And Aquaman gets disrespected again. Maybe he should go back to using polar bears as projectile weapons.


Distant Scholar wrote:
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
In the same way that Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, and Aquaman are all "superheroes" compared to normal people, there's clearly a difference between what Superman and Wonder Woman can do than what Batman and Aquaman can do... and it has nothing to do with their character level.
And Aquaman gets disrespected again. Maybe he should go back to using polar bears as projectile weapons.

Hey! He was listed together with Batman! He could not receive greater honor!

Liberty's Edge

Drejk wrote:
Distant Scholar wrote:
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
In the same way that Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, and Aquaman are all "superheroes" compared to normal people, there's clearly a difference between what Superman and Wonder Woman can do than what Batman and Aquaman can do... and it has nothing to do with their character level.
And Aquaman gets disrespected again. Maybe he should go back to using polar bears as projectile weapons.
Hey! He was listed together with Batman! He could not receive greater honor!

What everyone seems to have missed here is the very subtle Superman > Batman. The real question is, will the Batman fans let this pass...Also, Mythic tiers sound great and can't wait for the playtest! =D


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I can't wait to playtest too!


Nipin wrote:
Drejk wrote:
Distant Scholar wrote:
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
In the same way that Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, and Aquaman are all "superheroes" compared to normal people, there's clearly a difference between what Superman and Wonder Woman can do than what Batman and Aquaman can do... and it has nothing to do with their character level.
And Aquaman gets disrespected again. Maybe he should go back to using polar bears as projectile weapons.
Hey! He was listed together with Batman! He could not receive greater honor!
What everyone seems to have missed here is the very subtle Superman > Batman. The real question is, will the Batman fans let this pass...Also, Mythic tiers sound great and can't wait for the playtest! =D

Actually it is case of SM + WW > BM + AQ

Which effectively boils down to SM + WW > BM
Which is plausible possibility.

Also note the subtext. *cough*


Pathfinder Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Well, all he stated was that Superman was mythic and Batman was not. However, it is still possible that Batman has more levels than Superman does, and theoretically that can even things out ;)

Liberty's Edge Star Voter 2015

Actually, Superman as a Mythic Paladin 12/Warden 6 while Batman's a Rogue 18 (or something like that) actually makes a fair amount of sense to me. One has cool powers, the other is vastly more experienced with skills that probably out number his by a factor of 7, the same BAB, and probably at least as much HP (barring those defensive Mythic things)...that sounds right-ish.

Star Voter 2013

Except Superman has like DR 40/magic.

Liberty's Edge Star Voter 2015

Tels wrote:
Except Superman has like DR 40/magic.

Which is why I suggested Warden as his Mythic Path. If DR and/or Natural Armor or assorted sorts (or other equivalent effects) aren't available to the Warden I'll be shocked. Their whole schtick from description is being unkillable.


Tels wrote:
Except Superman has like DR 40/magic.

I thought it was 40/shiny green stones.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Astral Wanderer wrote:
Tels wrote:
Except Superman has like DR 40/magic.
I thought it was 40/shiny green stones.

Those are an energy based attack and ignore DR anyway.

Star Voter 2013

Superman is 'vulnerable to magic' so I figure /magic makes a great DR for him. A lot of hereo/villain powers are 'supernatural' or technological in the first place. Magic Weapons are a lot less common in Comics than fantasy I would say, so things with DR/magic are very powerful creatures.


Zmar wrote:
The Block Knight: I don't think this could be broken down to 20 standard levels + 10 mythic. That would suggest that lvl 3 PC is equal to lvl 2 hero with 1 mythic tier, but what was said so far and with the abilities shown the abilities of PC characters will be broadened, not increased as standard levels do it now. It could mean that lvl X characters could take on more lvl appropriate foes, but they would be just as dead if the triffle with something way above their level as normal PCs would be. CR may have to be a bit rerefined when it comes to mythic rules.

I certainly agree that the issue surrounding how level balance is related to Mythic Tiers is going to be intricate. At the moment, X Tiers = X Levels is a (Very) rough benchmark. Until we know more about powers and how they scale with Tiers (as well as how they interact with levels) it's really the only benchmark we have.

It may end up being that Tiers are measured as a geometric increase in power as compared to the much more linear progression of Levels. In the end, I agree that CR may end up needing to be slightly redefined. But that's one of the great opportunities the playtest will provide. I'm sure the developers have a scale in mind but once the clamoring masses of number-crunchers here on the forums get a hold of it, it may turn out that the scale needs adjustment. We'll see.

I just think the "plan" at the moment is probably for these to equate on a 1:1 basis when measured at the "highest level". When attaching these Tiers to lower level characters it may have a different measurement entirely. I don't know. Is it October yet?


Hobbun wrote:
The Block Knight wrote:

Why wouldn't it be equivalent power-wise to CR 30? At 30, you can take on higher CR's than 30. Just like at 20 you can take on CR 25, I imagine at 30 you can take on CR 35.

Creatures of that "scale" will be scaled appropriately to the Mythic cap. They're not going to cap players at 30 and then design creatures that are CR 40. That would be foolish. Instead, the biggest and baddest Demon Lords and Archdevils will probably cap out somewhere around CR 35 to 36.

As for Asmodeus (and his ilk) in the ToH, that's not the version that Pathfinder and its setting uses. Asmodeus is a god in Pathfinder and they don't plan on doing rules for deities. Never say never, I suppose, but it's highly unlikely. These rules will be designed to be compatible for the Golarion setting first and all other PFRPG-compatible 3PPP second. That means the focus is going to be on the Golarion cap only. It'll be up to GMs to modify these rules into their homegame if they want to include things like CR37+ creatures from the ToH or Colosseum Morpheon.

Yes, I realize Asmodeus is not Pathfinder specific and they (Paizo) are not necessarily going to design the Mythic ruleset to cater to creatures outside of official Pathfinder. However, I was just using Asmodeus as an example of CRs that I wish we have the capability to take on. Maybe a better way to put it is I wished we would have a little more than 10 Mythic tiers added.

However, if a 20 character level + 10 Mythic tier is able to take on a mid 30s CR, then that is fine. However, I don't know about you, but when we've tried to take on a CR 5-6 levels higher than us, we usually have to run or we die. So if you are able to do so here, most likely 20 character levels + 10 Mythic tiers are probably not equivalent to CR 30.

I agree that in the normal level range, CR differences of 5 to 6 can be killer. I do find though that at the higher levels the CR challenge gap stretches a little more. Note that in the Core book, the recommend APL+3 as an "epic" fight with very risky possibilities. But if you look at high-level modules as well creatures from the bestiaries that are benchmarked as good "end-game" creatures, I find that APL+4 becomes more standard once the party hits about Level 16 - 17.

So by the time a party is rocking APL 20+ it may slowly start to stretch to +5 to +6 for "Epic" "end-game" encounters. Plus, as others have said, there's always the McGuffin route used against Kyuss and Demogorgon. Though I will agree that, if used all the time, it could get old.

Another possibility which could give us CR 40 creatures as appropriate end-game challenges as well as only keeping 10 Tiers (having your cake and eating it too) might be if the Tiers provide non-linear increases in power (as I suggested might be possible in my last post above). In this way 10 Tiers may add more than just 10 APL.

For example, what if a Level 20 party with maxed out Tiers at 10 equal APL. . . 36. Just a thought. *puts on nostalgia goggles and crosses fingers*


I've some questions for Jason and anyone else in the know:

• How many abilities will a PC get for each mythic tier?

• Will all mythic abilities be 1/day/tier?

• If I want to make up a mythic ability, how powerful should it be?

• Will hit points and other level-based variables (e.g., the damage from polar ray) increase with each tier?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

So I was listening to the design seminar from GenCon and caught a couple of things that I haven't seen mentioned.

Your amount of Mythic Power is based off of the ability score of your choice. A mobility fighter could take the Champion path, and choose Dexterity to figure out his Mythic Power score.

Every mythic character has a weakness. The example give was vulnerability wood. A weapon made primarily of wood, automatically confirms critical threats, crit multipiler increases by 1 to a max of 4, and it goes through your DR.

It sounds like there are abilities you get at each tier no matter what path you pick, along with abilities you get from your path.

I will continue to try catch more.


AlgaeNymph wrote:

I've some questions for Jason and anyone else in the know:

• How many abilities will a PC get for each mythic tier?

• Will all mythic abilities be 1/day/tier?

• If I want to make up a mythic ability, how powerful should it be?

• Will hit points and other level-based variables (e.g., the damage from polar ray) increase with each tier?

It is way too early for most of these details. These rules are not finalized, and will not be published for another year (11.5 months). For some, the answer right now is likely to be "we don't know yet".

We will likely get *some* of them in the playtest rules in a few weeks... middle- to end- September if they are on schedule, perhaps into October if they are not.

Even then, what we see in the playtest is subject to revision based on the feedback from the playtest.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So seeing as how Hercules is mentioned as being a mythic character, I was curious if there are any mythic rules in place for the PCs to be able to get "mythic" ability scores, even if only in one or two abilities. After all, aside from being the son of Zeus, Hercules is known for his colossal strength. Any plans for the PCs to have characteristics like that?

And I'm talking about innate high scores, not inflated scores due to items or potions or what have you.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

What I would prefer is not increased scores, but more dramatic application of those scores.

So, a mythic strength character might get a x2 multiplier for lift capacity, or maybe even spend mythic points for a x10 for a short time or something. But that same character's hit and damage might not be different from a normal character of the same level. For those mythic high-damage strikes (if any), those might be limited-use things powered by mythic points rather than the norm for a combat routine.


Archmage:

craft items without spending cash? ;)
Retaining spellslots thru concentration and always floating just a bit over the ground?

Whereas the trickster just might convince a dragon that lending its treasure hoard is a good idea.. haha

Sczarni

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Mutants & Masterminds has a mechanic which allows for "extraordinary" abilities/powers.

I think its called "extra effort/power stunt".

Basically, you can modify your power on the fly to achieve a new effect (a melee punching power might become a ranged attack for the encounter, or a super self healer might touch and regenerate his buddys severed arm, for examples), or gain an extra sort of result. A strong guy power might use extra effort to hold up a collapsing building for a short time, despite it being well out of his carry weight.

Afterwards, you are fatigued (a significant penalty in that game, almost like staggered) or have to spend a hero point to negate it.

Would yield the ability to "break the rules" a bit, and allows otherwise impotent characters a chance to significantly influence the encounter.

Contributor; RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Just wanted to say that I have been waiting a long time for this playtest, and I am very excited to participate. The previews so far are promising since they seem to be assumed to be gained every level or so (hopefully in the middle of a level--one of the things I've always wished was different about Pathfinder and its predecessors was that characters could develop abilities in between level-ups), and I love that they are tied to accomplishments.

Contributor; RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Here's hoping we see some rules for more ways PCs can create some artifacts... after all, what else could set apart a creator from other mortal artisans if not mythic status? :D

Drejk wrote:
Well, after some thought I must admit that there is some semblance to 4th edition Epic Destinies. In fact I think that there would be place for additional, more exotic Mythic Paths besides core six based on Epic Destinies.

I don't see that as a bad thing. Both are based on much older archetypes, so some similarities are to be expected. But they are extremely broad concepts, and that leaves much potential difference in the manner of their execution.


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MythMage wrote:

Here's hoping we see some rules for more ways PCs can create some artifacts... after all, what else could set apart a creator from other mortal artisans if not mythic status? :D

Drejk wrote:
Well, after some thought I must admit that there is some semblance to 4th edition Epic Destinies. In fact I think that there would be place for additional, more exotic Mythic Paths besides core six based on Epic Destinies.
I don't see that as a bad thing. Both are based on much older archetypes, so some similarities are to be expected. But they are extremely broad concepts, and that leaves much potential difference in the manner of their execution.

There was mention of legacy type weapons that eventually become artifacts at some point.

Grand Lodge

BPorter wrote:
Zombie Ninja wrote:

I have to chime in and say I'm a little disappointed. I really would have liked to have epic level rules, and this sounds like a source book to add 4e elements to a pathfinder game. Likely to attract the now disenfranchised 4e players. Don't get me wrong it's a great idea on paizo's part why not get the 4e crowd who wont switch to 5e. But, I honestly wanted epic.

I don't know, Paizo is a great company and they managed to sell me on products I though I wouldn't like before so maybe I'm wrong.

As someone who is not a fan of 4e, is not interested in "traditional" epic-level play, but is trying to assess this new Mythic system, I don't see what you're seeing - at all. YMMV.

Minor things that reminded me of 4e. The before mentioned tiers of play. The way mythic classes have a resemblance to paragon paths, and to go further the way the champion and trickster sound sorta like strikers, the Hierophant and Marshal sound a lot like leaders, the archmage kind of sounds like a controller, and warden well that sounds exactly like a defender. Also you seem to choose your powers at a certain tier like how you choose powers at a certain level in 4e. And lastly the powers you get sound over the top like many 4e powers.

Mind you I can be wrong, and honestly I probably am wrong, but there are a few areas of similarity.

Scarab Sages

All that can be said is that me and my group's are drooling for the play-test.


Excellent!
This looks like a lot of what I've been missing in Pathfinder!

I am very intrigued by the Warden, especially.


Zombie Ninja wrote:
BPorter wrote:
Zombie Ninja wrote:

I have to chime in and say I'm a little disappointed. I really would have liked to have epic level rules, and this sounds like a source book to add 4e elements to a pathfinder game. Likely to attract the now disenfranchised 4e players. Don't get me wrong it's a great idea on paizo's part why not get the 4e crowd who wont switch to 5e. But, I honestly wanted epic.

I don't know, Paizo is a great company and they managed to sell me on products I though I wouldn't like before so maybe I'm wrong.

As someone who is not a fan of 4e, is not interested in "traditional" epic-level play, but is trying to assess this new Mythic system, I don't see what you're seeing - at all. YMMV.

Minor things that reminded me of 4e. The before mentioned tiers of play. The way mythic classes have a resemblance to paragon paths, and to go further the way the champion and trickster sound sorta like strikers, the Hierophant and Marshal sound a lot like leaders, the archmage kind of sounds like a controller, and warden well that sounds exactly like a defender. Also you seem to choose your powers at a certain tier like how you choose powers at a certain level in 4e. And lastly the powers you get sound over the top like many 4e powers.

Mind you I can be wrong, and honestly I probably am wrong, but there are a few areas of similarity.

HAHAHAHA!! Ya know what the Hierophant and Archmage sound like to me??

The Hierophant and Archmage from 3.5. What THE HELL PAIZO?!

I have a fair knowledge of 4e and seriously dude, I have no idea how you could possibly claim an Archmage sounds like a controller, when you know nothing about what abilities the Archmage will have.

Warden sounds like a defender huh? Well DUH!! Those words are synonymous with each other, at least in this respect. Also, a defender sounds like a Stalwart Defender

Did you cry foul when you found out Paizo included that PrC in the APG??

A champion sounds like a striker? aka they hit stuff good. Wow, that's crazy, how did you make that connection?

Dude, seriously, the English language only has so many ways to describe something. There's bound to be overlaps.

If these overlaps of terms turns you away from Mythic Adventures, that's kinda sad.

Shadow Lodge

So.. this is basically a conversion from the "Dawnforge" legendary point system along with some of the other stuff that it adds?
I mean.. I am all for adding in an aspect that is different.. but.. yeah.


Tiers in 4E are labels for sets of 10 levels. On heroic (1-10) you are expected to delve dungeons, save mayor's daughters and kill trolls. On Paragon (11 - 20) you storm castles, save kingdoms and kill dragons. On Epic (21 - 30) you travel planes, save worlds and kill archdemons. These are just roughly summing what is expected on which levels.

Tiers in mythic rules are not connected to character level or to what will be the player's impact on the world. They are a measure of how much the player can loosen rule limit on his actions (from what I've read here so far).

The name is the same, but otherwise these two don't look similar at all.


Feel free to suggest a different name. As was already pointed out, it was going to be called mythic levels instead of mythic tiers, but people rightly mentioned that there are too many different levels (character level, class level, spell level, caster level, item caster level, ...) already. So if tiers is bothering you, there's no harm in suggesting something else.

Dedicated Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Tales Subscriber

I don't think that it is coincidence that this optional feature, that can radically change the game experience without changing the system (still backwards compatible), is announced at a time that WotC tinkers with 5e.

Strike of genius I'd say if this works out as intended.

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