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Mythic Adventures

Tuesday, August 28, 2012

Just over a week ago, at Gen Con, we announced the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game hardcover book due to come out next August: Mythic Adventures. Since then, there has been a fury of speculation and excitement about this book, so I thought I would give a recap of what we’ve said so far about this new addition to the game.

What is mythic?

The mythic rules offer a new way to play Pathfinder. It uses all the rules that you are familiar with, but it adds a new layer to the game. Mythic adventurers are elevated above their non-mythic counterparts, gaining powers and abilities beyond their reach that allow them to take on tougher foes and more daunting challenges. A mythic character takes on the agents of deities, rushes headlong into the abyss, and strives to build a legend, all while facing off against a wide variety of foes, from common monsters to other mythic characters. If Elric, Fafhrd, Gray Mouser, Hercules, or King Arthur were created in Pathfinder, they would be mythic characters.

Is this a replacement for epic rules?

Mythic is not epic. You can use the mythic rules with 1st-level characters just as easily as you can with 20th-level characters. You can even use the mythic rules to continue to grow in power once your PCs reach 20th level, taking on some of the toughest adversaries in the game, from ancient dragons to demon lords. Meanwhile a low-level mythic character might take on monsters that you are already familiar with, at a level where non-mythic characters would face certain doom.

So, how does mythic work?

Each mythic character must select a mythic path, which defines some of the powers and abilities he gains, in addition to a few features gained by all mythic characters. As a character advances, his mythic tier might increase. Starting at 1st tier, a mythic character is quite a bit more resilient and can draw upon his mythic power to accomplish incredible deeds. Once he reaches 10th tier (the upper limit of mythic power), he is an unstoppable force, akin to a demigod in some respects.

Mythic tiers are not gained by accumulating experience points. Instead, a mythic character has to accomplish a specific number of deeds to achieve the next tier of mythic power. Using this system, your mythic tier is not tied to your character level. You still gain XP as normal, still gain levels as normal, but occasionally you might increase your mythic tier as well, adding a few new mythic abilities and powers to your character.

It is important to note that while mythic rules add to the game, they do not necessarily make the game more complex.

What are the mythic paths?

The rules currently include six paths for a mythic character to choose from. Each path offers a unique set of abilities to choose from, as well as some abilities that appear in more than one path. The paths you can choose from are as follows:

Archmage: Master of arcane magic, able to call upon his mythic power to cast extra spells, penetrate defenses, and even cast greater versions of existing spells.

Champion: Unequalled in his skill with weapons and styles of fighting. The champion can call upon his mythic power to make devastating attacks, quickly move across any battlefield, and strike many foes with a single swing.

Hierophant: In tune with the gods, be they deities or the spirits of the natural world, the hierophant is the master of divine magic. The hierophant can heal even the most deadly wounds, bring back allies from the dead, and wield the power of the gods.

Marshal: A leader of unparalleled vision, the marshal elevates those around him, granting powerful abilities and bonuses to his allies, even if they are not mythic themselves. Entire armies flock to his banner, and his close friends find his council invaluable.

Trickster: The master of many deceptions, the trickster can influence the world around him in both subtle ways (with a smile) and more direct ways (with a dagger in the back).

Warden: Few can withstand the sort of punishment that the warden takes regularly. No foe frightens this warrior, because he knows that no blow could possibly lay him low. The warden uses his resiliency to protect his allies, the people around him, and the lands he calls home.

What else will be in Mythic Adventures?

In short, everything you need to add mythic rules to your game. The book will contain the mythic paths, deeds, feats, spells, magic items, artifacts, monsters, and a short sample adventure to get you started. In addition, Mythic Adventures will include plenty of tips and advice for playing a mythic character and running a mythic campaign. It will also feature ways that you can add mythic rules to your existing campaign, even if it’s only for an adventure or two.

Mythic monsters?

Oh yes. There will be mythic monsters. This book will include a selection of monsters, from upgrades of existing beasts, such as the mythic minotaur and medusa, to entirely new creations. In addition, there will be a number of simple templates and rules to allow a GM to make any monster mythic. There are also going to be a number of other toys to go in the GMs toolbox to help make a game that can challenge such powerful characters.

Can I have it NOW?

Not quite yet. Mythic Adventures will be released at Gen Con 2013, but you’ll get a chance to play with the rules well before that. We will be releasing a select portion of the rules set, to give you a chance to play with the rules, tell us what works and what needs work. This playtest will hopefully get underway by the end of September, but we will make sure to give you a firm date as soon as we have one. Until then, I want to leave you with this one little mythic rule for you to chew on.

Amazing Initiative (Ex): At 2nd tier, a mythic character gains a +20 mythic bonus on his initiative checks. In addition, he can spend one use of his mythic power each round to take an additional turn, treating his initiative for this second turn as his initiative roll without the +20 mythic bonus. Using this ability is a free action that must be decided at the end of his first action during the round.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion Subscriber
thejeff wrote:


Except Mythic Tiers are supposed to count for CR, so I'm not really sure how that will work out.

Won't know until we see the playtest rules, I guess.

In my experience, looking at the rules, a "+X to CR" isn't too different from saying "Counts as X levels higher." So a level 5 character (generally considered a 'CR 4' character by the rules) with 2 mythic tiers is going to count as a 'CR 6' character in the end. If that makes sense.

Osirion

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Odraude wrote:

A part of me is hoping for a fighter to be able to go down the Archmage path.

Muscle Wizard is born!

The only possible response is THIS


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jason Bulmahn wrote:


I was wondering when someone would catch on to that little correlation. You even beat the folks here in the office. As for the hybrid classes, there will be an option that allows you to get into more than one path.

So Jason, if you want to explore both paths fully, will you have rules for epic Mythic tiers?

:D

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

As for their being a large number of paths, currently I am trying to settle on six just to prevent too much bloat. That said, each path has a very large number of options built into it, allowing you to explore each one a little differently.

That I am glad to see. I was a bit concerned, when seeing only 6 tiers, that all your arcane casters would look the same in Mythic tiers (choosing Archmage), all the fighter classes (Fighter, Ranger, Barbarian) would look the same in picking Champion.

I really do hope there will be a way to differentiate one another and you don't have cookie cutter Mythic builds.


Sounds awesome!

Looking forward to a Glorantha game using this. Red Moon Goddess and the Lunar Empire vs. Orlanthi PCs.


i wish paizo had the rights to stat up elric,,corum,,and hawkmoon
when i was younger i loved the moorcock books...

Andoran

I hate to say this; but mythic sounds like power creep on steroids...or maybe an introduction to Pathfinder 2.0 . Count me out if this comes to pass.


Martin Kauffman 530 wrote:
I hate to say this; but mythic sounds like power creep on steroids...or maybe an introduction to Pathfinder 2.0 . Count me out if this comes to pass.

I have to agree with it sounding like "power creep on steroids" part,

and thankfully it's an add-on for certain future APs and modules.

I don't ever plan to use the Mythic rules with any of my home-brew games, but if it's done well and the power creep is in check I won't mind it as much for special campaigns.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Martin Kauffman 530 wrote:
I hate to say this; but mythic sounds like power creep on steroids...or maybe an introduction to Pathfinder 2.0 . Count me out if this comes to pass.

How can something that is explicitly designed to grant mythic power to players be considered power creep? The whole intent of this ruleset is to increase power. Power creep is accidental and unintended. Mythic adventures is deliberate and controlled.

Apples and oranges, my friend. Apples and oranges.

Andoran

I am vehmenently against such major increases in player power. I believe that Pathfinder is nicely balanced as it is; and that mythic powers lead only to an inevitible furher power escalation in post mythic book releases. Soon, each player will assume Godlike status and this will destroy the heroic nature of the game- making Pathfinder an entirely different game. The nature of heroism is that of man or woman struggling against great odds, not battles between godlike beings.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Martin Kauffman 530 wrote:
I hate to say this; but mythic sounds like power creep on steroids...or maybe an introduction to Pathfinder 2.0 . Count me out if this comes to pass.

Ugh...seriously? Did you even read what this thing is about. THESE ARE OPTIONAL RULES. What is with some people?


So don't use the extra rules. They've said they'll continue to support non-mythic play as well. The rest of use are looking forward to this.

Edit: Ninja'd


Martin Kauffman 530 wrote:
I am vehmenently against such major increases in player power. I believe that Pathfinder is nicely balanced as it is; and that mythic powers lead only to an inevitible furher power escalation in post mythic book releases. Soon, each player will assume Godlike status and this will destroy the heroic nature of the game- making Pathfinder an entirely different game. The nature of heroism is that of man or woman struggling against great odds, not battles between godlike beings.

agreed.

a Mythic module a year or two or a Mythic AP every 2->3 years would be fine by me and keep the Heroics Heroic and rare as they should be.
But if every other module or AP becomes Mythic I see power creep on steroids and energy drinks.

Osirion

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I don't think this is power 'creep.' It's a mad power dash, face painted and screaming for blood. And I like it! By making it an add-on option, it becomes like point buy, something a GM can choose when the game starts, and not something that is assumed to exist for everyone whether or not the GM wants to use it.

It should also be possible to write normal APs and adventures, and then have 'Mythic conversions' that take up a couple of pages, tops, mentioning what sorts of changes would be appropriate for specific encounters, for a party of tier X or tier Y.

Another interesting bit about the Mythic 'plug-in' being optional, is that a GM can pick and choose who gets it and when;

For those who still have a 'linear fighter, quadratic wizard' problem with the game, the mythic rules could also be implemented in your home games in different increments, by class. A non-spellcaster, like a fighter, monk or rogue, might be able to use one mythic tier per 5 levels, while a hybrid or partial caster like a bard or ranger can use one mythic tier per 10 levels, and a full spellcaster like a cleric or wizard is limited to one mythic tier per *20* levels. By adjusting mythic tiers in this fashion, by 'class tier', as the full caster spell list expands into game-changing territory (at 5th, when the wizard begins flying, at 10th when he's teleporting, etc.) the fighter/monk/rogue types are also getting some 'nice things.'


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought I read somewhere that some products would be "Mythic-accessible" and not "Mythic-only". I see this as being maybe a page or two in an AP's player's guide PDF.

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

What is the difference between Mythic Magic Items and Artifacts?


Michael Dean wrote:
Filby Pott wrote:

1. Does this require every member of a party to by mythic? How do you keep a mythic PC from overshadowing the non-mythic PCs?

2. This obviously doesn't work like epic rules, but does this mean that epic rules (ie, levels above 20th) are off the table for the future?

I have to be honest, if I can become a demigod at 10th level using mythic rules, I see no point in advancing to 20th without them.

Obviously, I don't know anything about it, but I don't see it working like that based on the preview. Each tier of mythic sounds like it requires specific deeds to be accomplished before advancing. My guess is that the things you have to accomplish to go from 9th to 10th tier isn't going to be done by a 10th level character.

To add to what Michael said, first, you don't gain these levels with XP so planning a character in advance (like many players do) is sort of off the table with this because you can't necessarily count on getting Mythic levels when you want them.

Second, you'll still want to advance to 20th level if you want Tier 10 powers since your Mythic Tier is capped by half your level.


Martin Kauffman 530 wrote:
I am vehmenently against such major increases in player power. I believe that Pathfinder is nicely balanced as it is; and that mythic powers lead only to an inevitible furher power escalation in post mythic book releases. Soon, each player will assume Godlike status and this will destroy the heroic nature of the game- making Pathfinder an entirely different game. The nature of heroism is that of man or woman struggling against great odds, not battles between godlike beings.

So don't use them?

You do realize that Mythic powers are not only optional but also only granted by the GM, right? As in, a player can't just decide to take a Mythic Tier instead of a regular level. As has been said a dozen times in multiple threads, Mythic Tiers can ONLY be gained by completing deeds and at the discretion of the GM. They are not tied to XP, at all. That means the GM gets to control the power limit of players (which the GM is already supposed to be doing).

If, on the other hand, you mean that the injection of Mythic Tiers into Golarion will disrupt the setting then you're mistaken. Golarion has Mythic NPCs and creatures already, which is one of the reasons they're producing these rules - so they can finally detail these characters in full.

As for the nature of heroism, well I agree with you. Luckily, these rules don't turn anyone into a god. What they allow for is for characters to gain just enough power to be able to take on Demon Lords (and similar beings) and possibly win. That sounds pretty heroic to me.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

The Block Knight wrote:
...Second, you'll still want to advance to 20th level if you want Tier 10 powers since your Mythic Tier is capped by half your level.

That bit isn't graven in stone at this point.

Jason Bulmahn wrote:
I want to note, that at this time, there is no limit to how many mythic tiers you can possess, other than the upper cap of 10. The guideline about have no more than half your level is just that, a guideline (and done for good reason as some of the higher tier abilities cue off of higher level abilities from the classes).


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Berselius wrote:
This looks suspiciously like Paizo's attempt to make Pathfinder look and feel more like 4th Edition.

I heard it's actually an attempt by the Freemasons to brainwash players into working for the Illuminati to prepare their way into power for the 2016 election.

This is the rampant conspiracy theories thread, right?

Andoran Contributor

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Martin Kauffman 530 wrote:
I am vehmenently against such major increases in player power. I believe that Pathfinder is nicely balanced as it is; and that mythic powers lead only to an inevitible furher power escalation in post mythic book releases. Soon, each player will assume Godlike status and this will destroy the heroic nature of the game- making Pathfinder an entirely different game. The nature of heroism is that of man or woman struggling against great odds, not battles between godlike beings.

One of the really cool things about Mythic is you can use it for a game and then take it away. You don't have to make them permanent.

That means for one game, maybe even the finale to an epic adventure, your "joe average" players can eat the flesh of a fallen god and gain mythic powers that enable them to defeat a legendary beast. How long they retain the powers is up to the GM, and they might only last a certain amount of time before they peter out. So in this regard, the might even work like a spell or something. They're just a tool.
GM giveth, GM taketh away.
As far as how they are used in Golarion, I wouldn't expect them to warp the basic flavor anymore than the addition of Guns did in Ultimate Combat. Which is, they didn't. Some home games probably have a lot of guns, but the core content hasn't changed and most games still don't have gunslingers.
Pathfinder is a very successful game. The designers don't want to break it.


Joe Wells wrote:
The Block Knight wrote:
...Second, you'll still want to advance to 20th level if you want Tier 10 powers since your Mythic Tier is capped by half your level.

That bit isn't graven in stone at this point.

Jason Bulmahn wrote:
I want to note, that at this time, there is no limit to how many mythic tiers you can possess, other than the upper cap of 10. The guideline about have no more than half your level is just that, a guideline (and done for good reason as some of the higher tier abilities cue off of higher level abilities from the classes).

Well, true enough, each GM can modify the guidelines as they see fit, but that's really no different than any other guideline in the game. Either way, it's still up to the GM what the player has access to.


Hey!!

Did everybody see the posts by the Paizo staff that said there was going to be plenty of non Mythic material, with small amounts of Mythic support and there was even a comparison to the Alchemist and Haunts was made. Such that those are new rules, yet not every single AP/Module utilizes said rules.

Or did you ignore that, and instead got all nerdraged and butthurt?

OR do you think the Paizo folk are lying to us??

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game Subscriber

So I take it that these are kinda like amped up Heroic Paths from the Midnight RPG?


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Monkeygod wrote:

Hey!!

Did everybody see the posts by the Paizo staff that said there was going to be plenty of non Mythic material, with small amounts of Mythic support and there was even a comparison to the Alchemist and Haunts was made. Such that those are new rules, yet not every single AP/Module utilizes said rules.

Or did you ignore that, and instead got all nerdraged and butthurt?

The Block Knight wrote:
Berselius wrote:
This looks suspiciously like Paizo's attempt to make Pathfinder look and feel more like 4th Edition.

I heard it's actually an attempt by the Freemasons to brainwash players into working for the Illuminati to prepare their way into power for the 2016 election.

This is the rampant conspiracy theories thread, right?

Monkeygod wrote:
OR do you think the Paizo folk are lying to us??

They are always lieing to us. Pathfinder isn't real man, it's all just a mental projection induced by the brainwashing thetawaves released by the Paizo Corporation man. They're making us spend money on a product that isn't real so they can achieve nearly 100% profit! But the real evil is that Lisa isn't even human man. No, she's actually an agent from an interstellar species sent here to fuel our imagination, forcing us to dream of fake worlds and impossible deeds, all so she can halt our ascension into more a technologically advanced species that would be capable of fending off her extraterrestrial masters when they come to harvest our planet for it's dwindling resources. Even now, I'm certain Lisa has unleashed the Paizo Golem deatH.,/.,aoisdhfpaODF WE0AQEWFQ1`


Tels wrote:
Monkeygod wrote:

Hey!!

Did everybody see the posts by the Paizo staff that said there was going to be plenty of non Mythic material, with small amounts of Mythic support and there was even a comparison to the Alchemist and Haunts was made. Such that those are new rules, yet not every single AP/Module utilizes said rules.

Or did you ignore that, and instead got all nerdraged and butthurt?

The Block Knight wrote:
Berselius wrote:
This looks suspiciously like Paizo's attempt to make Pathfinder look and feel more like 4th Edition.

I heard it's actually an attempt by the Freemasons to brainwash players into working for the Illuminati to prepare their way into power for the 2016 election.

This is the rampant conspiracy theories thread, right?

Monkeygod wrote:
OR do you think the Paizo folk are lying to us??
They are always lieing to us. Pathfinder isn't real man, it's all just a mental projection induced by the brainwashing thetawaves released by the Paizo Corporation man. They're making us spend money on a product that isn't real so they can achieve nearly 100% profit! But the real evil is that Lisa isn't even human man. No, she's actually an agent from an interstellar species sent here to fuel our imagination, forcing us to dream of fake worlds and impossible deeds, all so she can halt our ascension into more a technologically advanced species that would be capable of fending off her extraterrestrial masters when they come to harvest our planet for it's dwindling resources. Even now, I'm certain Lisa has unleashed the Paizo Golem deatH.,/.,aoisdhfpaODF WE0AQEWFQ1`

I'm somewhat reminded of timecube.com ...


I'm wondering how much room there is for concepts outside of such singular ideas as the six paths presented.

I have a recurring character that focuses on skills, trickery and beguilement using magic. Both archmage and trickster, at least on the surface, seem like they might be the right path. Can you multiclass mythics? Can you be a 'mythic theurge', gaining reasonable progression in two paths (albeit not as much as someone single-pathing)?


Umbral Reaver wrote:

I'm wondering how much room there is for concepts outside of such singular ideas as the six paths presented.

I have a recurring character that focuses on skills, trickery and beguilement using magic. Both archmage and trickster, at least on the surface, seem like they might be the right path. Can you multiclass mythics? Can you be a 'mythic theurge', gaining reasonable progression in two paths (albeit not as much as someone single-pathing)?

Sounds like you can from this post:

Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Kvantum wrote:
So right now it basically looks like we have one Mythic Path for each ability score. What about for the hybrid classes? Which path would a Magus look for? What about a Nature-focused path? I assume the intent is to have more like three dozen paths for the finished book rather than just the six, correct?

I was wondering when someone would catch on to that little correlation. You even beat the folks here in the office. As for the hybrid classes, there will be an option that allows you to get into more than one path.

As for their being a large number of paths, currently I am trying to settle on six just to prevent too much bloat. That said, each path has a very large number of options built into it, allowing you to explore each one a little differently.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing


Oh, good. I hope the balance for hybrid paths is reasonable and not as poorly as Pathfinder's stance on multiclassing has been. We have far fewer paths than there are classes, and I'd really like to see blends be as good as pure paths.

Osirion

Sounds like a nice idea... only thing I am concerned with is the power bloat. Once PCs get a taste it will become part of the standard game.


Ilove to see the optional extension handled like this, but it brings another question on my mind... are we going to get low magic rules sometime in future as well?


one question i have.

does this mean we will eventually get a Continued Rise Of The Runelords AP?

cause id like a chance to fight the other runelords and take their pla....i mean, take em down :/

Osirion

Tim Hitchcock wrote:

One of the really cool things about Mythic is you can use it for a game and then take it away. You don't have to make them permanent.

That means for one game, maybe even the finale to an epic adventure, your "joe average" players can eat the flesh of a fallen god and gain mythic powers that enable them to defeat a legendary beast. How long they retain the powers is up to the GM,

Oh, that's hot!

I love the idea of an AP or something that, in the climactic end-scene, takes the party *into the Starstone* to stop the ascension of a new god of evil, and, while inside the Starstone Cathedral, *everybody* uses Mythic rules.

When they win (hopefully!) they must choose, go all the way into the Starstone and take their chances with the Test (becoming an NPC demigod or a corpse, but ending that character's story with a bang!), or step back outside and return to being a boring old regular non-Mythic kickass 15th+ level adventurer.

A mission into the First World, to oppose (or save!) one of the Eldest, might also use this sort of 'temporary' Mythic transformation, as the nature of the First World fundementally changes those who enter its deepest heart (at least, as long as they remain there...).

It reminds me a little bit of the Walt Simonson run on Thor, where Jormungandr rose to fight Thor, and the entire world froze in time, because they had entered 'myth-time,' a state of existence in which things that could simply not exist in the real world (like a sea serpent big enough to wrap itself around the planet) were manifesting openly, and Thor was able to unleash levels of strength and effect way above his normal 'weight class' (as if the world was not normally 'big enough' for the full power of the god of thunder, and only in 'myth-time,' could he rise to the challenge of the Midgard Serpent, when the rest of the world was unable to see what they weren't quite ready to see).


Set wrote:
Tim Hitchcock wrote:

One of the really cool things about Mythic is you can use it for a game and then take it away. You don't have to make them permanent.

That means for one game, maybe even the finale to an epic adventure, your "joe average" players can eat the flesh of a fallen god and gain mythic powers that enable them to defeat a legendary beast. How long they retain the powers is up to the GM,

Oh, that's hot!

I love the idea of an AP or something that, in the climactic end-scene, takes the party *into the Starstone* to stop the ascension of a new god of evil, and, while inside the Starstone Cathedral, *everybody* uses Mythic rules.

When they win (hopefully!) they must choose, go all the way into the Starstone and take their chances with the Test (becoming an NPC demigod or a corpse, but ending that character's story with a bang!), or step back outside and return to being a boring old regular non-Mythic kickass 15th+ level adventurer.

A mission into the First World, to oppose (or save!) one of the Eldest, might also use this sort of 'temporary' Mythic transformation, as the nature of the First World fundementally changes those who enter its deepest heart (at least, as long as they remain there...).

It reminds me a little bit of the Walt Simonson run on Thor, where Jormungandr rose to fight Thor, and the entire world froze in time, because they had entered 'myth-time,' a state of existence in which things that could simply not exist in the real world (like a sea serpent big enough to wrap itself around the planet) were manifesting openly, and Thor was able to unleash levels of strength and effect way above his normal 'weight class' (as if the world was not normally 'big enough' for the full power of the god of thunder, and only in 'myth-time,' could he rise to the challenge of the Midgard Serpent, when the rest of the world was unable to see what they weren't quite ready to see).

im not trying to burst your bubble, but i dont see this happening. Norgorber entered and became a god and hes evil. i dont think that alignment has anything to do with it. if youre not worthy, you dont get in. and i also see the test starting as soon as you enter the place, which is technically right and wrong, as the test starts by traveling over the pit without the aid of the bridge.

i would like to see an AP end with a player or the party crossing the pit one by one and entering the cathedral and then end it there. classic 80's style.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Fnipernackle wrote:
does this mean we will eventually get a Continued Rise Of The Runelords AP?

James Jacobs has said in a couple of places (notably his "Ask" thread) that one of the reasons they wanted to do Mythic rules was so that they could finally stat up all the Runelords (as well as Demon Lords and Great Old Ones).

Also, someone asked about being able to run APs with fewer players with Mythic rules, and in the discussion thread about them after the Gen Con announcement, it was stated that this was a possibility.

Osirion

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Fnipernackle wrote:
im not trying to burst your bubble, but i dont see this happening. Norgorber entered and became a god and hes evil. i dont think that alignment has anything to do with it. if youre not worthy, you dont get in.

It would have nothing to do with 'not being worthy,' it would have to do with a group of adventurers deciding that they don't want evil-dude-X to become a god, and trying to stop him from passing the Test of the Starstone.

The Starstone itself would not be rendering any sort of judgement here, it would be purely the PCs deciding that they don't want, say, Tar-Baphon, or Razmir, or Arazni, or Abrogail Thrune, or the Black Sovereign of Numeria, or whomever (perhaps something a bit less human, like an elder aboleth sorcerer or a great wyrm dragon or a creature from Leng), to become the next Starstone Scion, and are willing to cross the chasm to fight him/her/it in the Cathedral, before they reach the Starstone itself.

The PCs might not even have to win, they might just have to force the bad-guy to expend so much of his personal resources fighting them off that it doesn't have enough left to pass the Test. Plus the nature of the Starstone might make it dangerous for everyone in the Cathedral, as challenges appear for both the aspirant, and from the PCs who are trying to thwart his ascencion.


Masika wrote:
Sounds like a nice idea... only thing I am concerned with is the power bloat. Once PCs get a taste it will become part of the standard game.

I keep seeing these sorts of comments pop up and I'm baffled by the reasoning. Once players get a taste? Since when did players drive the content of a game to that degree? What is part of the "standard game" is determined by the GM. The players can't force the GM to use anything. If you only purchase hardcover products from Paizo to use in a homebrew setting it should't even remotely be a problem.

As for the "standard game" from a Paizo production schedule standpoint: this doesn't change anything. It will be occasionally supported and occasionally not when it comes to APs and setting material. Just like player options from the APG, UM, and UC. Sometimes the writers use these materials and sometimes they don't. And when they do, it's not because the writers have been influenced by player character demands.


Block Knight has a point. Despite what I've heard on these forums, it's rare that I come across a player in real life that is so heavily entrenched in 'player entitlement' that they'll throw a temper tantrum when they don't get their way. And even if I've come across a player like that, I just think "Man, I don't really want to play with this guy..."

Osirion

@The Block Knight
Some groups do not operate at that level. Play group dynamics is wide and varied as are GM's ability and style.
Players in regular established play groups at regular time, insular groups who only play within those limits, will take these rules on and add to the game. These are the mechanic bloat kings - min/max and everything in between.
I think the silent majority of players fall into that category.

Osirion

Odraude wrote:
Block Knight has a point. Despite what I've heard on these forums, it's rare that I come across a player in real life that is so heavily entrenched in 'player entitlement' that they'll throw a temper tantrum when they don't get their way. And even if I've come across a player like that, I just think "Man, I don't really want to play with this guy..."

Come in play in my town with my group :)


Set wrote:
Fnipernackle wrote:
im not trying to burst your bubble, but i dont see this happening. Norgorber entered and became a god and hes evil. i dont think that alignment has anything to do with it. if youre not worthy, you dont get in.

It would have nothing to do with 'not being worthy,' it would have to do with a group of adventurers deciding that they don't want evil-dude-X to become a god, and trying to stop him from passing the Test of the Starstone.

The Starstone itself would not be rendering any sort of judgement here, it would be purely the PCs deciding that they don't want, say, Tar-Baphon, or Razmir, or Arazni, or Abrogail Thrune, or the Black Sovereign of Numeria, or whomever (perhaps something a bit less human, like an elder aboleth sorcerer or a great wyrm dragon or a creature from Leng), to become the next Starstone Scion, and are willing to cross the chasm to fight him/her/it in the Cathedral, before they reach the Starstone itself.

The PCs might not even have to win, they might just have to force the bad-guy to expend so much of his personal resources fighting them off that it doesn't have enough left to pass the Test. Plus the nature of the Starstone might make it dangerous for everyone in the Cathedral, as challenges appear for both the aspirant, and from the PCs who are trying to thwart his ascencion.

thats the point. the evil one may be deemed worthy to attempt the test and be allowed to enter. just because you get over the pit doesnt mean that the cathedral openings for you. it has even been stated in the books that many have passed the pit but yet still couldnt enter the cathedral. so if the pcs were just trying to stop the individual and nothing more, and the cathedral already let him in, im afraid that the pcs would not be allowed to enter since the other has been chosen worthy to take the test and the pcs are just there to stop him as their first priority instead of trying to become a god.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Masika wrote:
Odraude wrote:
Block Knight has a point. Despite what I've heard on these forums, it's rare that I come across a player in real life that is so heavily entrenched in 'player entitlement' that they'll throw a temper tantrum when they don't get their way. And even if I've come across a player like that, I just think "Man, I don't really want to play with this guy..."
Come in play in my town with my group :)

I don't think your group is as bad as you might think ;) One example I've had to deal with:

ME: Alright guys, time for character creation. No gunslingers. Doesn't fit the setting. Other than that, everything it fair game.

PLAYER: What? Why not?

ME: It just doesn't really fit with the setting I have planned. You can play any of the other classes though

PLAYER: That's not fair! It's in the Core!

ME: Bro, chill the f~~& out. It's just one class for f~&%'s sake.

PLAYER: I already made my character! That's not fair!

ME: Wait you already made your character? I said we'd do it today!

PLAYER: (slams UC on table, knocking a Coke down) I get to play my gunslinger or I'm f$+*ing walking.

ME: Seriously!?! Get the hell out now!

This is a fairly rare case. I'm a fairly compromising GM, but I don't suffer douches.


Masika wrote:


@The Block Knight
Some groups do not operate at that level. Play group dynamics is wide and varied as are GM's ability and style.
Players in regular established play groups at regular time, insular groups who only play within those limits, will take these rules on and add to the game. These are the mechanic bloat kings - min/max and everything in between.
I think the silent majority of players fall into that category.

Odraude wrote:
Block Knight has a point. Despite what I've heard on these forums, it's rare that I come across a player in real life that is so heavily entrenched in 'player entitlement' that they'll throw a temper tantrum when they don't get their way. And even if I've come across a player like that, I just think "Man, I don't really want to play with this guy..."
Come in play in my town with my group :)

Ok, fair enough to some extent. I'll admit there are groups that once they tack a book onto their "core list" it becomes a permanent option for that group and players can always use it. Not sure if I'd call that the majority. Who knows.

However, that still doesn't change anything with Mythic rules. Players can clamor for access all they want but it won't change the fact that Mythic Tiers are awarded by the GM. You can't choose to take Tier levels in a Mythic Path unless the GM is granting Mythic awards for player deeds. They're not part of XP progression. This is one option that is pretty much always in the hands of the GM. Power bloat shouldn't be a problem.


7 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yes! Playtest announced! Awesome! I cannot wait to get a peak at the rules!

You know what's not awesome?

The negative posts about how Mythic Adventures is going to 'change/adversly effect/ruin' Pathfinder.

Seriously? We've been shown TWO Mythic abilities. Two.

We've also been given a lot of teasers about Mythic Adventures.

Paizo's ten years of detailed, consistent, and nearly stellar track record gives them the benefit of the doubt on EVERYTHING they publish, IMO.

Does that mean I think everything they publish is perfect? Hell no, but it DOES mean I trust them to produce quality products that will be well thought out and useful to me and most of their customer base.

They've earned that trust.

If they haven't earned that trust with you, why are you here?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber

Very curious and excited about mythic being its own thing and by it being avaialbe from 1st level on up.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I for one can not wait!


Laruuk wrote:

Yes! Playtest announced! Awesome! I cannot wait to get a peak at the rules!

You know what's not awesome?

The negative posts about how Mythic Adventures is going to 'change/adversly effect/ruin' Pathfinder.

Seriously? We've been shown TWO Mythic abilities. Two.

We've also been given a lot of teasers about Mythic Adventures.

Paizo's ten years of detailed, consistent, and nearly stellar track record gives them the benefit of the doubt on EVERYTHING they publish, IMO.

Does that mean I think everything they publish is perfect? Hell no, but it DOES mean I trust them to produce quality products that will be well thought out and useful to me and most of their customer base.

They've earned that trust.

If they haven't earned that trust with you, why are you here?

+10

I've been saying this for the last week.


So, where are the Demon Lords? :)

Are we going to see at least one in the book, or shall we expect a new Bestiary? Or another book entirely?

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

Cheapy wrote:
I think [Gandalf] was the Demigod class, with a bit of Archmage path thrown in.

Per the blog, a 10th tier archmage is "akin to a demigod." That frees up all of Gandalf's class levels to be something entirely unrelated to being a demigod. :)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber
Beek Gwenders of Croodle wrote:

So, where are the Demon Lords? :)

Are we going to see at least one in the book, or shall we expect a new Bestiary? Or another book entirely?

Y'know, if there is a Mythic Bestiary of any sort that's Golarion-specific....there's one guy that absolutely has to be on the cover. :D

"If you would be He Who Walks In Blood you must slay He Who Walks In Blood."

Silver Crusade

8 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

Hey, there's no Monk path. Guess once again there will be no to fix the Monk class. Again we see no love for The Class That Matters. Whatever we do now? /SARCASM

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