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Ultimate Equipment Preview: Oh, For a Muse of Fire!

Tuesday, July 31, 2012

The massive burning blade of the fire giant whipped through the air in a horizontal stroke, just inches above Merisiel’s head. She deftly lunged to the side to avoid the deadly strike, but singed one of her long graceful ears in the process.

“Your assistance would be greatly appreciated,” she shouted at Valeros, who was busy fending off a pack of flaming hounds across the room. Her lunge transformed into a roll past the giant’s right knee, the blade of her dagger finding purchase in a seam of his ensorcelled armor. Roaring with pain, the giant pulled back and raised his sword overhead.

Avoiding the flaming maws of the hell hounds, Valeros brought his blade down on the head of one of the snapping beasts, dousing its fires for good before turning to take on a pair of the hounds coming up from behind. “I’m beginning to think the diadem of the giant lord might not be worth this price!”

Valeros might be unsure, but you are definitely going to want to get your hands on all the valuable items packed in the pages of Ultimate Equipment, due out in just 3 weeks. This preview includes more treasure from this mighty tome—specifically, the loot from a CR 11 encounter with a fire giant and a pack of hell hounds.

Fire Giants are humanoids that can possess a number of different treasure types, but for this encounter we are going to be focusing on Type E: Armor and Weapons with a splash of Type B: Coins and Gems. With 10,500 gp worth of loot to give out, we are sure to have some great items.

Treasure Type E: Armor and Weapons
8,000 gp Reward (total value 8,000 gp)

+1 defiant full plate (humanoid [elf]), +1 greatsword

Treasure Type B: Coins and Gems
2,500 gp Reward (total value 2,450 gp)

600 gp, opal (worth 450 gp), unworked topaz gemstone (worth 300 gp), diadem set with a single flawless black pearl (worth 1,100 gp)

Looks like Merisiel is going to have a difficult time hurting that fire giant. One of the great things about this system is the ability to customize the treasure to suit the needs of the encounter. Even if you feel like rolling randomly on the many tables throughout the book, you can still pick and choose specific pieces to enhance your encounters. This week, I made sure that the most valuable gemstone was actually a piece of jewelry (the rules for creating and pricing jewelry can be found in the preview spread from last week looking at art objects); that way it would fit the story I was trying to tell.

Well, that wraps up this week. Next week, our brave heroes will be going for some big treasure, while trying to plunder the lair of an ancient white dragon!

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
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Pretty sure I did just that. It's right there on the table. Note that nowhere does it say in the gem section that, those tables are meant for treasure, you said that. The section simply references "random generation" in general, not "treasure generation" specifically.

Doesn't matter where the gem comes from, a treasure hoard or a storefront or the black market, it's still generated using those tables (assuming the GM uses them at all).

EDIT: If I am not mistaken, the word "treasure" only appears once on the sample page provided, and it it not used in the context you seem to indicate.


If those were "new rules", no one could cast Resurrection, True Resurrection, Wish and something else, since, RAW, they need (one) "Diamond worth X000 gp".


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:

Yay! Onyx gems max out at 65gp! 3 HD+ skeletons/zombies now no longer possible!

Hurray for new rules!

...I thought this book wasn't going to have any new rules, and instead was just going to be an item book...?

Stop being ridiculous.


Astral Wanderer wrote:
If those were "new rules", no one could cast Resurrection, True Resurrection, Wish and something else, since, RAW, they need (one) "Diamond worth X000 gp".

Pretty sure I alluded to that already.

Cheapy wrote:
Stop being ridiculous.

Oh I'm quite serious. This was a big problem back in v3.0 and I'm sorry to see it return.

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Ravingdork wrote:
Oh I'm quite serious. This was a big problem back in v3.0 and I'm sorry to see it return.

Gems can exist of any value the GM desires. These tables are merely present for random item generation. You would not apply the same logic to the Art Objects table I would assume.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Oh I'm quite serious. This was a big problem back in v3.0 and I'm sorry to see it return.

Gems can exist of any value the GM desires. These tables are merely present for random item generation. You would not apply the same logic to the Art Objects table I would assume.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Yes, a GM can make anything in their campaign. One of their perks I suppose. But how many actually go outside the published rules to benefit a player character? I've not met many. For an NPC? Those guys have access to unexplained powers, wealth, lands, and minions--all because the GM said so. But a player character? They have to get everything by the book.

That means these tables are it.

I might not have such an ardent stance on the matter if I hadn't had a half dozen GMs actively hold it against my spellcasting characters in previous editions.

Think about how many GMs on these forums take the Wealth by Level GUIDELINES as if they were ABSOLUTE LAW. I promise you many will treat these tables the same way.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Oh I'm quite serious. This was a big problem back in v3.0 and I'm sorry to see it return.

Gems can exist of any value the GM desires. These tables are merely present for random item generation. You would not apply the same logic to the Art Objects table I would assume.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Yes, a GM can make anything in their campaign. One of their perks I suppose. But how many actually go outside the published rules to benefit a player character? I've not met many. For an NPC? Those guys have access to unexplained powers, wealth, lands, and minions--all because the GM said so. But a player character? They have to get everything by the book.

That means these tables are it.

I might not have such an ardent stance on the matter if I hadn't had a half dozen GMs actively hold it against my spellcasting characters in previous editions.

Think about how many GMs on these forums take the Wealth by Level GUIDELINES as if they were ABSOLUTE LAW. I promise you many will treat these tables the same way.

Dear Ravingdork,

Stop playing with idiots. (And trying to find rules solutions to human problems).

Sincerely,
G.


Yar!

I am excited for this product!

However I must say: I REALLY hope your proofreaders take their time proofreading! Several times over. After juts a quick glance, I already see that the pages previewed here have typos in them. Some from the gem tables have been pointed out already by Nukruh. The armor tables (3-2) have one as well: "GREATER MINOR ARMOR OF SHIELD" instead of "GREATER MINOR ARMOR OR SHIELD"

Please please please please please for the love of all that is holy, make these typos go away!

~P


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Ravingdork wrote:


Yes, a GM can make anything in their campaign. One of their perks I suppose. But how many actually go outside the published rules to benefit a player character?

How about, almost all of the ones I've played with. I can count of the top of my head at least 10 GMs that I have played with extensively at length (which is the majority of GMs I've played with) who certainly tweak the rules to help the PCs, and especially will try to find ways to get gear and other such matters to be useful--and certainly with an issue like needing spell components of a certain value, no GM I know of would tell the player it doesn't exist because it's not on a random treasure table. And as a GM, I certainly would not do what you say.

Yes, there are people who are jerks who will try to manipulate things to be jerkish--but you know what? It is impossible to make rules jerk-immune. Because no matter how comprehensive or ironclad the rules are, a jerk dead set on being a jerk will find some way to be a jerk about them--even if the rules appear to be impervious to jerkery, then the jerk will just say, "Well I'm the GM and I said so, and the rules are wrong, so there. Suck it up."

The rules, no matter how good, will not make jerks stop being jerks. If you play with jerks, RavingDork, then the solution is not to go upon a Quixotic quest to fix the rules that the jerks are using as an excuse to be jerks. The solution is to stop playing with jerks. (And I know Gorbacz said the same thing in a much briefer way, but I felt like sticking my oar in.)

Good luck.


So if my necromancer wants a 250gp onyx gem for his 10 HD undead abomination, where does he get it from pray tell? Short of going outside the rules and making stuff up, he's not going to.

Sczarni

Ravingdork wrote:
So if my necromancer wants a 250gp onyx gem for his 10 HD undead abomination, where does he get it from pray tell? Short of going outside the rules and making stuff up, he's not going to.

Then your GM can work with you to reach that goal of getting such an onyx. That's what he/she is there for. Simple as that.


Thursty wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
So if my necromancer wants a 250gp onyx gem for his 10 HD undead abomination, where does he get it from pray tell? Short of going outside the rules and making stuff up, he's not going to.
Then your GM can work with you to reach that goal of getting such an onyx. That's what he/she is there for. Simple as that.

So if the GM never wanted my necromancer to have a powerful undead servant, all he need do is make it so they never appear in a shop? They sure as hell aren't going to appear as treasure. I think I'd rather there not be rules to support such crappy behavior.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Cards, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:

So if the GM never wanted my necromancer to have a powerful undead servant, all he need do is make it so they never appear in a shop? They sure as hell aren't going to appear as treasure. I think I'd rather there not be rules to support such crappy behavior.

You've been told how to fix this (many times) - don't play with jerks.

If your GM can't abide by Rule 0, then no other changes to the rules will fix the problem.


Isn't rule 0 what allows crooked GMs to do this in the first place?

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

3 people marked this as a favorite.

If you think your GM is 'crooked', then maybe you need to find a new GM. After all, bat guano, tuning forks, and ointment don't appear as random treasure either. That doesn't mean you can't obtain them in some other way. Nor does it mean a GM can't go ahead and put them in treasure if they feel like it.

That said, perhaps this would be a good topic for different thread, rather than continue to derail this one.


Fair enough.


Ravingdork wrote:
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Oh I'm quite serious. This was a big problem back in v3.0 and I'm sorry to see it return.

Gems can exist of any value the GM desires. These tables are merely present for random item generation. You would not apply the same logic to the Art Objects table I would assume.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Yes, a GM can make anything in their campaign. One of their perks I suppose. But how many actually go outside the published rules to benefit a player character? I've not met many. For an NPC? Those guys have access to unexplained powers, wealth, lands, and minions--all because the GM said so. But a player character? They have to get everything by the book.

That means these tables are it.

I might not have such an ardent stance on the matter if I hadn't had a half dozen GMs actively hold it against my spellcasting characters in previous editions.

Think about how many GMs on these forums take the Wealth by Level GUIDELINES as if they were ABSOLUTE LAW. I promise you many will treat these tables the same way.

I think Jason is saying the gem table is not a rule, but a guideline. As for WBL we use it on the boards as a point of reference, especially when someone has issues with a build, usually the GM. It does not mean we adhere to it strictly when we play our own games.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Or you simply parse it differently.

An (onyx gem worth 10gp) per HD

Vs

An onyx gem (worth 10gp per HD)

Cheliax

DragonBringerX wrote:
LoreKeeper wrote:
Foghammer wrote:
Zaister wrote:
LoreKeeper wrote:
Just out of interest: can a monk wear a +1 brawling t-shirt without violating the no-armor clause? Assuming that he doesn't use armor bracers or anything that would "turn off" the t-shirt.
I think you can only put armor enhancement bonuses and armor special abilities on items that are actually... armor. I guess a +1 brawling t-shirt is just as off-limits as, say a +1 light fortification chandelier.

Which is ultimately no more ridiculous that placing the enhancement on a suit of padded armor, which is nothing more than a quilt-turned-coveralls.

I don't take issue because of monks or fighters, I take issue with the logic that such rulings are derived from. If one of my players wanted to wear a +1 tunic, well, okay! That PC just paid 1000 gold for a +1 armor bonus to AC.

Making the distinction between clothing and armor in this case is splitting one hair too many.

The problem then is:

- is the t-shirt "light armor" for the purpose of the brawling enchantment
- is the t-shirt "not armor" for the purpose of flurrying, monk AC and fast movement

New Light Armor

Cloth - 1gp - +0 AC - -0 ACP - 0% ASF - same speed - 1 lbs

Cloth Armor - Cloth armor counts as light armor for the purposes of spells, feats, special abilities, and armor enchantments. Any character can wear cloth armor without violating their class features, such as a monk. While cloth armor is listed as 1 gp, see equipment chapter for prices on different cloth armors (clothing).

This is what I use. I just imagine this was an entry in the armor table.

Wait, what book is this from? It's not in UE, UC, or the SRD, and a quick google search for that entry returns only your comment.

EDIT:...Neeever mind. House rule. Got it.

Osirion

Ok I'm confused in the entry for bracers of armor it clearly states they can have other enchantments added.
So why can brawler not be placed on bracers???


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Because bracers of armor aren't light armor and it can only be put on light armor.

Osirion

Bracers seem light to me so why are they not light armor??


John Whitaker wrote:
Bracers seem light to me so why are they not light armor??

Unfortunately (in this case), bracers of armor are NOT armor. They are not light, medium, or heavy armor, nor are they shields, which means that since the brawling property requires light armor, it cannot be placed on the bracers.

Now, on the flip side, since bracers are not armor, that means that a monk can wear them without losing his class AC bonus, flurry of bows, and fast movement; a sorcerer or a wizard can wear them with no Arcane Spell Failure chance; etc., etc., etc.

To summarize, bracers are wondrous items that may provide an armor bonus, but are not actually armor of any type.

MA

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