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Paizo announces Paizo Game Space

Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 10:18 PM Pacific

Paizo reinvents the virtual tabletop to be played directly on Paizo.com!

Uses Paizo's high, max resolution maps, handouts and everything you need to run our APs. Makes everything easy to connect with people and get playing. As long as you can get to Paizo.com you can play!

Edit: We've posted details on the announcement, some screenshots (including features that weren't shown at the banquet), and more info about free play and paying for stuff.

Sara Marie
Customer Carebear

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I gamemaster exclusively Pathfinder, and exclusively online, and exclusively in a PbP (Play By Post) format. This isn't preference, necessarily, but it is what works for me. Well... Pathfinder is a preference. ;)

Play By Post is awesome. It's slow, but its awesome. Players can join in from all over the world, everyone can play a bit each day as they have time in their schedule, and with the inclusion of artwork, maps, etc it is possible to tell a truly epic story.

I would SO use gamespace to do this. I would HAPPILY buy an AP in order to use the artwork, tokens, etc. I would love to be able to tell stories in this way.

Please, please, please... Paizo give some sort of PbP support on gamespace. Guys like me simply won't be able to use it otherwise as our schedules are too unpredictable for live games. If you can't for server reasons or what have you then I completely understand, but in that case please make available for purchase a digital version of the APs that have things like premade maps, digital pawns or tokens (top down tokens are the best!) and of course the amazing writing and art that has made Paizo so successful.

Qadira

I join those who would be very intrested in buying premade maps & tokens for the established scenarios in APs and perhaps in modules. Gamespace looks like it's mostly conviniant for dungeon crawls & the like - encounters where minis are usually needed. If I can run crawls online, I will pay for it.


Evil Lincoln wrote:

I don't know the logistics, and I think it is fruitless for us to speculate.

Our job is to say what we would like to buy. (Even then, I suspect we're wrong half the time.)

And to let them know what we as the consumer what we expect to be reasonably free, as well as to pay for remember.

Anyone thing that some sort of basic tiles might be worth it to have them, free perhaps :)?

That might sort out the doing your own game problem, then they can charge for more detailed and bigger tiles besides just a basic adventure.

So we know maps are going to be thing thing in general, but maybe tiles as well?

I'd still like a disk rather than a dig download, but we do need something for PBP, agreed on this for many people!!

Cheers, its September now, and seems to be getting a litle cooler!! :)

Tom


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Just adding a couple of my personal thoughts on some sensitive subject material...

1) Price to Play
- There should be no cost to play for a player. Anyone with an account should be free to join a game and view 100% of the content within that game without being charged for it. Including but not limited to premium content, expanded content, custom content.
- There should be no immediate cost to host a game as a DM. Anyone with an account should be free to start and DM a game, using 100% of the content that they have previously purchased or acquired through legal means without being charged anything extra for the sake of hosting. This would exclude any premium or expanded content that has not been purchased.

2) Premium Pricing
- Premium content should be fairly priced in such a way that customers will find value in the content and not feel "nickle & dime'd."

3) Subscription Model
- There could be a subscription based model where for a fair 1/3/6/12 monthly fee a host can have access to all premium and expanded content. If the subscription lapses, the customer would still have access to all premium and expanded content that they had purchased individually before or during the subscription time.
This would give customers a chance to use all of the premium and expanded content on a temporary basis without having to commit to purchasing individual premium content.

4) Bundling
- Bundling is a great way to give value to a product and make customers feel like they're getting a good deal while also potentially driving sales of physical goods.
- Purchased miniatures could come with a virtual tabletop token(s) representing that miniature.
- Purchased comics could come with a VTT map or tileset that was features in that comic.
- Purchased Pathfinder books or Pathfinder Adventure books could come with bonus material for the VTT.

5) Sales & Deals
- Every once in a while have a good sale on premium and/or expanded content.
- Customers who are already subscribed to one Pathfinder subscription model should be offered a discount on a VTT subscription.

6) Premium Content (highly debatable)
- Map Packs
- Tilesets
- Token Packs
- Being able to import custom content, such as your own tokens, maps, tilesets, etc. (Due to the nature of custom content, this could require a subscription fee only)
- Tools to make your life easier
- Animations (wink wink nudge nudge)


Nice post Kayone

Are you talking about any product bought from Paizo, physical and digital?

I am one of those Gamers who likes having the items "in hand". Started with PF just under two months ago and so far from the local game store I have bought..

Begin Box
Core Rb
GM Guide
AP Guide
Ult Magic
Ult Combat
Ult Equip
Best 1
Best 2
Best 3
Best paper fig box

Rise of the RL, aniv book
Haunting of Harrowstone
Shards of Sin
8 flip maps
12 of the map packs

Now I know that I did not buy the above knowing I'd get some free stuff for an upcoming Virtual tabletop. But I hope I would not have to rebuy digitally the second list, or at least to get a "better deal". But proving what one has bought from a store could be a big can of worms I know....

I have no subscribtions as of yet, so when I come onto Game Space, what would I have "for free" that I could work with in running a game?

Yes, as a player I could perhaps play for free, but to run something I only have the physical copies of, I would have to also buy the same dig items as well, hope there is some other way.

Next, I did'nt see anything as to free maps, base play or tokens one could use to set up and run for free, is that included as just a registered user?

PBP games, do you consider that Game Space needs to have some type of application to this as well in the future?

Shold there be a Low/Med/Prem tier for price pointing, besides our free stuff?

Cheers, just some questions that popped into my head while reading your post, and those questions I asked myself before to, LOL!!

Tom


TRDG wrote:
Are you talking about any product bought from Paizo, physical and digital?

I was thinking the bundling would be with physical products for the purpose of driving physical product sales.

TRDG wrote:
Now I know that I did not buy the above knowing I'd get some free stuff for an upcoming Virtual tabletop. But I hope I would not have to rebuy digitally the second list, or at least to get a "better deal". But proving what one has bought from a store could be a big can of worms I know....

When I was looking up info about PDFs for books purchased at a local shop, Paizo had something in their FAQ about not providing PDFs for local purchases. I would assume the same to be true about this. It sucks, but I'm just trying to make an educated guess based on their other policies.

TRDG wrote:
I have no subscribtions as of yet, so when I come onto Game Space, what would I have "for free" that I could work with in running a game?

One could assume there would be enough free content to at least host a game for free, though the extent of which I couldn't begin to guess.

TRDG wrote:
Yes, as a player I could perhaps play for free, but to run something I only have the physical copies of, I would have to also buy the same dig items as well, hope there is some other way.

Digital copies should exist for purchase. The bundling would be designed to drive physical product sales. It's an alternative method.

TRDG wrote:
Next, I did'nt see anything as to free maps, base play or tokens one could use to set up and run for free, is that included as just a registered user?

I assume you would need a registered account to access the VTT. You shouldn't require anything else to play a game. Hosting(DM'ing) a game should have a certain amount of free content to at least be able to play for free.

Just to be absolutely clear, I am in no way affiliated with Paizo or the VTT project. I'm just trying to offer my own input as well. The answers above are only in response to questions specifically about my suggestions.


I would be interested if the app/gamespace had the ability to purchase stuff directly within it. I don't want to have to log out of Gamespace and sign into the paizo.com site to purchase an item.

I would even be ok if Gamespace had a "Store" section where you could purchase anything from paizo.com directly within Gamespace.

This might help offset some of the costs associated with the "premium" content. If I was playing in someone's Rise of Runelords game on Gamespace and came across a token/virtual miniature of Shalelu, it would be neat if I could just click on the token and add the physical miniature into my cart and have it shipped to my house. I'm not sure I'm explaining that correctly....


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Astralplaydoh wrote:

I would be interested if the app/gamespace had the ability to purchase stuff directly within it. I don't want to have to log out of Gamespace and sign into the paizo.com site to purchase an item.

I would even be ok if Gamespace had a "Store" section where you could purchase anything from paizo.com directly within Gamespace.

This might help offset some of the costs associated with the "premium" content. If I was playing in someone's Rise of Runelords game on Gamespace and came across a token/virtual miniature of Shalelu, it would be neat if I could just click on the token and add the physical miniature into my cart and have it shipped to my house. I'm not sure I'm explaining that correctly....

I like this idea. Bottom line, the easier it is to obtain and integrate what you need to prep and play an adventure the better.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Astralplaydoh wrote:

I would be interested if the app/gamespace had the ability to purchase stuff directly within it. I don't want to have to log out of Gamespace and sign into the paizo.com site to purchase an item.

I would even be ok if Gamespace had a "Store" section where you could purchase anything from paizo.com directly within Gamespace.

This is one among many reasons I don't think assets should be sold on a per-asset basis. I think it should come in the form of adventure content. In that scenario, you never have to run off to buy something.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Some quick thoughts regarding the system-agnostic approach, influenced by some of EL's thoughts upthread ...

There are plenty (tons) of system-agnostic solutions out there, what could make Gamespace standout would be the focus on PFRPG integration. Whether this is done in a modular fashion, or integrated from the get go, I believe this is where Paizo could shine.

I assume the current plan is to go for system-agnostic initially, but I truly hope there are plans to offer tight integration with PFRPG. I would prefer more integration and automation than less. One can always opt not to use a tool.

If you, Paizo, made it easy to integrate/automate common rules, I would bet the overwhelming majority of folks that say they do not want automation would change their mind =) Why? Because it comes down to time, both prep and in-game.

Perhaps that will be my slogan as we move forward into play-testing: It's all about time (prep and in-game).


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Evil Lincoln wrote:
Astralplaydoh wrote:

I would be interested if the app/gamespace had the ability to purchase stuff directly within it. I don't want to have to log out of Gamespace and sign into the paizo.com site to purchase an item.

I would even be ok if Gamespace had a "Store" section where you could purchase anything from paizo.com directly within Gamespace.

This is one among many reasons I don't think assets should be sold on a per-asset basis. I think it should come in the form of adventure content. In that scenario, you never have to run off to buy something.

True, though I think we need to be clear about what we are talking about. In this case we are talking about a pre-made adventure, and homebrew.

Pre-made adventure. All of the adventure content should be there already, no need to obtain anything else. Though we should add, for the most part, since we need to think of random encounters and other GM inserted encounters.

Homebrew. I could see folks thinking that the Shalelu token would be perfect in their personal elven campaign, or some such.

In any event, we will probably need both options to cover all of the bases, adventure package and single-asset.


Thanks for the reply Kayone

Here is what I am thinking (hope for in some form)of when we get to see and play it in action.

FREE

-Be a registered user at the site here.

-Some basic maps/tile sets and PC/NPC and monster tokens to use in any basic game, be it PF or something else perhaps.

- (BIG)MAYBE here!! play all that Game Space has to offer when it first comes out (extra ideas they want to try to see if it works, gamers like or dislike it for said low/med/prem content), as it is a live Beta test using us as the test "subjects", LOL.

Say a month? to get an adventure or two completed.

Then if anything is found it goes back in for repair for the final touchs, that would also add in the low/med and Prem stuff we could pay for that works and the croud is crying out for.

-1 Module, PF Adven Path OR a whole new one exclusivly at Game Space ONLY. Not a real small adventure but one that will put the players and the GM's though the systems paces, see what one could do with this for a paid adventure.

Low price point

-Basic + tokens, more variety and more specific PC's NPC's, you know.

-some of the shorter/low end modules/PF Adven Path/shorter but well thought out New exclusive content adventures. Perhaps linked when one tries all the tiers or subscribtions?

-An extra or two that the free GS does not have

Medium price point

Better tokens, better middle of the road modules, features, just that much better than the free or low price point.

Premium Price point.

- Well, you get everything GS has to offer that they put into it.

- All Modules, PF ADventures (In time) any and all tokens, maps/tile sets.

-Say once a year a special event that people can flock to and play, run by Paizo.

-If you want to play a new adventure then GS is where you could run it first.

Play by post and GS options at the same time.

Have a disk or full download out to buy to run this without connecting to the site.

Cheers, just basics here but I think you might ge the idea I hope.

Tom


Mark Moreland wrote:
bugleyman wrote:
Erik Fredrickson wrote:

And never will now, according to the broadcast I just got from Wizards.

Elaborate please? I thought they were already in beta (albeit with a scaled back version).
ENWorld report

Yeah i did the math when the whole shebang was announced regarding active posters and how many of those could be persuaded into the wizards virtual gaming world, and came up short to pay for more than one or two people.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

People want songs not notes. Evil Lincoln hit the nail on the head. Every VTT program I have seen is trying to sell access to components, but to me this is like trying to sell pianos by the key in a world where keys are easily reproduced with a couple mouse clicks.

Instead Paizo should focus on being the iTunes of VTTs. They could even enforce a copyleft style license where any unique resources introduced by a 3rd part would be required to be added to the general pool, including both art and rules subsystems (also Game Space should be scriptable).

The other thing that Paizo could sell would be hosting. A free account would have just enough memory to host a single campaign, while for X$ a month you get X megs of extra storage space. This would be an abstraction of what you are really buying (bandwidth) because having a single database serving all instances means that the art resources are not actually getting copied.

I would buy into such a system, and before long Paizo would have such an insurmountable level of content Game Space could become the de facto VTT.

Another way to encourage community addition of resources is giving each artist a small cut of Paizos portion of the profit when someone buys an adventure. This way everyone gets paid but only Paizo deals with the details.

Anyway that's how I would do it.


Forlarren wrote:

People want songs not notes. Evil Lincoln hit the nail on the head. Every VTT program I have seen is trying to sell access to components, but to me this is like trying to sell pianos by the key in a world where keys are easily reproduced with a couple mouse clicks.

Instead Paizo should focus on being the iTunes of VTTs. They could even enforce a copyleft style license where any unique resources introduced by a 3rd part would be required to be added to the general pool, including both art and rules subsystems (also Game Space should be scriptable).

The other thing that Paizo could sell would be hosting. A free account would have just enough memory to host a single campaign, while for X$ a month you get X megs of extra storage space. This would be an abstraction of what you are really buying (bandwidth) because having a single database serving all instances means that the art resources are not actually getting copied.

I would buy into such a system, and before long Paizo would have such an insurmountable level of content Game Space could become the de facto VTT.

Another way to encourage community addition of resources is giving each artist a small cut of Paizos portion of the profit when someone buys an adventure. This way everyone gets paid but only Paizo deals with the details.

Anyway that's how I would do it.

As much as I hate and despise iTunes, I have to agree. Using a similar method would probably do wonders for Game Space. There are tons of free artwork out there from maps to scenery for all kinds of things, even the APs. For instance, in this thread angelrobe has beautifully re-created most of the Curse of the Crimson Throne AP for the community to use as they please.

It would be awesome for a GM to want to start up a Crimson Throne AP and find a resource on Game Space of various different players art work.

Game Space Beta Tester

Evil Lincoln wrote:
This is one among many reasons I don't think assets should be sold on a per-asset basis. I think it should come in the form of adventure content. In that scenario, you never have to run off to buy something.

I think Evil Lincoln is on the right track here. The VTT should be free to play. Any map, mini, token, tile images that are in teh Community Use Pacakges should be free to use by all players.

If Paizo, or any VTT, followed a portion of EL's plan in his previous post about the GM 'paying for prep', I'd be on it like a fly on ... you get the idea.

With a good VTT, my mostly military gaming group could continue to play regardless of where the military sends us.

EL is onto something and if Paizo doesn't see the wisdom of his approach, someone else will eventually.

I am looking forward to seeing what is in store.


Laruuk wrote:
EL is onto something and if Paizo doesn't see the wisdom of his approach, someone else will eventually.

Flattered as I am by that sentiment, I can assure you that the Paizo people know what they're doing. They haven't undertaken this lightly.

But yeah, if they don't do it, expect a Kickstarter from me...

Game Space Beta Tester

Oh, there is no doubt in my mind that Paizo has something unique in store.

Even if they do something completely different from what you outlined a few posts ago, I am certain it will be a quality product.

Like most of us here, I've HAPPILY given Paizo oodles of cash. They've earned my trust and loyalty.

Paizo Employee PostMonster General

7 people marked this as a favorite.

Quick update: We did a brief test outside the firewall today. This was basically the codebase that we demonstrated at PaizoCon. I think a couple dozen people signed in and poked around on a Flip-Mat: Deep Forest. There were a handful of monsters in addition to the dozens of player tokens. Just for fun we gave GM powers to anybody who asked, so there were lots of shenanigans and not much combat. The new server handled the load better than anticipated, which was nice to see.

This test was primarily to exercise some of the networking code and it looks like some of the code I thought would need to be rewritten might be OK after all. That will leave more time for tweaking other things (the chat in particular needs a lot of work).

We'll continue to post updates when we have new things to report. Thanks for your patience, everybody, and I look forward to seeing everyone's feedback once you've had a chance to take it for a spin yourself.

Game Space Beta Tester

Thanks for the update Gary

Paizo Employee PostMonster General

4 people marked this as a favorite.

I forgot, someone took a screenshot before things got too crazy. Well, it was still pretty crazy. But then it got crazier. It turns out, twelve or thirteen GMs might be too many.

Cheliax Game Space Beta Tester

Can't wait I will be using this to run a friend through an ap once it is up and the mythic play test comes out.

Silver Crusade Game Space Beta Tester

Gary Teter wrote:
I forgot, someone took a screenshot before things got too crazy. Well, it was still pretty crazy. But then it got crazier. It turns out, twelve or thirteen GMs might be too many.

Mad Paint skillz there! ;)

Qadira

Hey Gary, this might be a little early to ask, but how long do you figure it will take between the release of Gamespace to the public eye (which from the way things look right now will probably happen sometime the next month) until all sorts of cool extras like maps and tokens for Paizo APs will start becoming avilable?

-thanks!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Are there any plans to enable round tokens instead of square ones? I would much prefer things to have an appearance similar to the examples in the combat chapter of the CRB.


Thanks for the update and good to see some things are working out better than expected for Game Space.

Hopefully the how to offer it "packages", what is "free" and the price pointed details are being well on their way in the process to.

Cheers, can't wait to take it for a spin, and needless to say further updates before we get there, loved thi pic by the way, thanks!!

Tom

Silver Crusade

Cant wait to see this product. I would also like to see support for the PBP folks as well. A Character builder would be nice as well, Wotc has one and the price of 10.00 a month for stuff does not seem bad.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Gorbacz wrote:
Gary Teter wrote:
I forgot, someone took a screenshot before things got too crazy. Well, it was still pretty crazy. But then it got crazier. It turns out, twelve or thirteen GMs might be too many.
Mad Paint skillz there! ;)

While it wasn't me, if I had done the screen capture, I would have edited the URL to reflect a short-link and then rick roll it. =)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm not sure how much *I* would use it as my lone attempt for playing an online PbP didn't mesh too well for my playing style and I'd much rather just play in person instead of via the computer, but I know there are others that are more suitable for such formats; However, I did think that the impromptu presentation that the PMG offered yesterday was pretty keen-o.

For those who wondered, I was able to log into that VTT and still have my Paizo tabs open, so for whomever indicated they wanted to do some shopping simultaneously while participating, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to do so.

Just be mindful of your own computer's memory allocation. I only have 3GB on my laptop and admittedly I had a couple of other programs running to test loading issues on my end, but I tried to play a Youtube video and I noticed that it was too much multitasking for my laptop to bear so it kicked me out of the VTT. Once I shut down Youtube, I was able to log back in and pick up right where I left off. The only bummer is that the chat log for the session was reset so I lost access to what was there prior.

The best part was having my (default Paizo) avatar chase Pork Chop around the VTT board in the hopes I could toss a fireball at 'em and cure mah bacon!

Oh yeah, the majority of the messageboard codes seemed to work in chat like they do when using them to compose in a post beyond the regular text / font.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
ziltmilt wrote:
I'm a little surprised Paizo doesn't just partner with the RPTools team vs reinventing the wheel. Maptool already does so much, especially when you consider how customizable it is via macros and all the framework libraries that are freely available. The only disadvantage to Maptool is the amount of advance prep work ... setting up vision blocking, figuring out the macros, etc.

Partnerships in tech are marriages more complicated than you might imagine.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Mikaze wrote:
Gary Teter wrote:
The name may change, too. I like "Paizo Game Space" but maybe there's a better name to be had. We'll see, we're taking an iterative approach to development and rollout.
The Electronic Pathfindernarium!

Leave the funky names to others, honey. To paraphrase one of my favorite characters.

p.s. stick with Gamespace.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
TRDG wrote:
A bit bummed it did not come out this summer (yes when you hit September summer is over, school starts!!)...

In the Northern Hemisphere, the astronomical summer ends Friday, September 21, 2012.

We did unfortunately suffer a few weeks of delays, so I'm not promising anything by that date... but we're not officially late *yet*.

Oh, see, I was confused, because in the Golarian calendar summer ends on the last day of Arodus :P

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Gary Teter wrote:
Quick update: We did a brief test outside the firewall today. This was basically the codebase that we demonstrated at PaizoCon. I think a couple dozen people signed in and poked around on a Flip-Mat: Deep Forest. There were a handful of monsters in addition to the dozens of player tokens. Just for fun we gave GM powers to anybody who asked, so there were lots of shenanigans and not much combat.

Bah! I never thought to ask.

I could have turned you all to stone with my malignant breath.
Then had a game of skittles.

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Evil Lincoln wrote:
This is one among many reasons I don't think assets should be sold on a per-asset basis. I think it should come in the form of adventure content. In that scenario, you never have to run off to buy something.

Something I believe should be available, either in the core free material, or as a single download package, is tokens and uploadable stats for the summoned monsters and natures allies.

These are creatures who are going to be thrown around a lot and you don't want to stop the game while someone types the stats into the Gamespace.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I just can not wait. my group is spread out across 3 states and needs help. Screen shots are really promising!

Taldor

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Tales Subscriber

The Last Days Of Summer is a decent novel...


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Arbarin wrote:
I just can not wait. my group is spread out across 3 states and needs help. Screen shots are really promising!

While I have the utmost confidence that gamespace will be great, if your campaign needs something to hold it together over long distances, there are existing options... many of which may be better than gamespace for some time... development is a process.

I suggest roll20.net for ease-of-use, and maptool for customizability. Both are free and work on mac or windows OS.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns Subscriber

I know that I am looking forward to this, as are some of my players, especially the one who is dealing with debilitating spinal problems.

That said, I am not only willing to pay for this, but also *hope* they charge for it.

OK, put the tar and feathers away. ;-) Hear me out.

My day job is in government IT. Has been for nearly a decade, and I've been working in the field off and on since 1989. My concerns are strictly from a financial standpoint.

First of all, believe it or not, it will cost Paizo to run this service. Aside from the salaries that will be paid to those people to develop and maintain the code, convert the product to work with the finished product, as well as the technical support staff, one also has to consider:
--The cost of the hardware
--the cost of the electricity needed to run the hardware and the cooling
--The cost of the bandwidth

Even if those are all rolled up into a "cloud" solution, it still.
isn't.
free.

And those fees, paid separately or combined, will come due every month whether or not anyone uses it. Even charging for the APs or other modules isn't enough, because that's not a constant income stream. My guess is that they will be purchased by less than half of the users (always more players than GM's), and unlikely to be done on a regular monthly basis. What's more is that each is a one time purchase. Which means it can't be considered a regular income stream.

Paizo is, after all, a business, and they need to make money to stay open and keep providing us with awesome stuff!

So, yes, I want them to charge for it, and yes, it needs to be a reasonable charge. I don't know what that is at the moment. I'd have to give it more consideration. But if I want this service to be around for a long time (and I do), then I need to pony up.

Just my 2 coppers. Take it, leave it, line the birdcage with it.


Grayhawk1 wrote:


isn't.
free.

I would be willing to pay at least as much as I did for these Kingmaker APs if I didn't have to make maps and have 7 different programs open.

Maptool
Hamatchi
tokentool
Combat manager
Chrome
Skype
Calculator

If it's a monthly fee thing... I don't know how long my campaign is going to take. I'm not going to rush them through.

Game Space Beta Tester

Grayhawk1 wrote:

I know that I am looking forward to this, as are some of my players, especially the one who is dealing with debilitating spinal problems.

That said, I am not only willing to pay for this, but also *hope* they charge for it.

OK, put the tar and feathers away. ;-) Hear me out.

My day job is in government IT. Has been for nearly a decade, and I've been working in the field off and on since 1989. My concerns are strictly from a financial standpoint.

First of all, believe it or not, it will cost Paizo to run this service. Aside from the salaries that will be paid to those people to develop and maintain the code, convert the product to work with the finished product, as well as the technical support staff, one also has to consider:
--The cost of the hardware
--the cost of the electricity needed to run the hardware and the cooling
--The cost of the bandwidth

Even if those are all rolled up into a "cloud" solution, it still.
isn't.
free.

And those fees, paid separately or combined, will come due every month whether or not anyone uses it. Even charging for the APs or other modules isn't enough, because that's not a constant income stream. My guess is that they will be purchased by less than half of the users (always more players than GM's), and unlikely to be done on a regular monthly basis. What's more is that each is a one time purchase. Which means it can't be considered a regular income stream.

Paizo is, after all, a business, and they need to make money to stay open and keep providing us with awesome stuff!

So, yes, I want them to charge for it, and yes, it needs to be a reasonable charge. I don't know what that is at the moment. I'd have to give it more consideration. But if I want this service to be around for a long time (and I do), then I need to pony up.

Just my 2 coppers. Take it, leave it, line the birdcage with it.

I'm with you, broadly. One problem may arise if it's perceived to be competing with other products freely available. I'm expecting it to be better (and there's some added value in tying it to Paizo's IP which the free options can't emulate) but it strikes me that there may be a perceived reasonable pricing point considerably below what the actual pricing point needs to be.

Hopefully there'll be enough of us wanting all the bells and whistles to enable the free version to be suitably awesome.


I just thought of a nice example of the content-focused AP idea. Someone else may have mentioned this upthread, but it's worth repeating— the premium modules of Neverwinter Nights 1. Except that for Paizo, much of the most expensive content (art) is already paid for, it would just need to be made into an ideal VTT product.


I'm not to sure I agree to much with greyhawk1,it seems he is talking about ONE monthly fee to cover EVERYTHING one can get in GameSpace.

The players get everything for free, it just the GMs that get stuck with the monthly bill.

As and more than a few other posted more than one price point package would work better than all or nothing.

GameSpace would have

1. Free content, at least run/play a basic game (NOT just a you are here and registered for free at GameSpace, but good luck getting anything going unless you $$.

2. Entry level price, better tokens,more and better adventures and a few perks

3. 2nd tier price, kick up to the better/more/bigger/uncommon tokens, adventures and one can upload some user based stuff.

4. Premium, everything Gamespace has to offer now, and in the future.

I would imagine that these might be monthly scrips, but perhaps also a yearly deal to cut down the costs for some.

Don't forget they posted about getting free offers, to some lucky people, random I bet for those who sign up to GS, but its a start.

Cheers, hope for more updates on all of this soon!!

Tom

Cheliax

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber

If GameSpace becomes a monthly-payment concept, then I doubt I'd use it. If, on the other hand, we get the option of having a framework that allows us to use maps, tokens, and whatever else bells and whistles the Paizo team wants to put into the VTT for free (which I believe was the original intent) and then pay for product-specific content, such as maps and tokens for Feast of Ravenmoor or the Skull & Shackles adventure path or the map packs (examples), then I'm all in. I'd be paying for the stuff I need, no more no less.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I would have really loved this a couple years ago when my players were scattered all over the place. Now that I've dragged most of them to Seattle with me, I have a lot less need for a VTT. Still, I remember the challenges of online play well enough to be excited that Paizo is building a solution.

What really catches my attention, though, is the mention of full resolution maps from adventure paths. VTT or not, that is something I've wanted for a long tine. Any chance we'll be able to get these maps outside the VTT for printing purposes? I would happily pay money for high-res maps that I could print out for use with miniatures. Of course, I would pay even more money if I could buy them already printed. ;)


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

The basic service should be free, because why would people use something they have to pay for when they can use Tabletop Forge (like I am using right now) or Roll20 for free in a Google Hangout. What I want them to charge for and what I will happily pay is for all the gamemastery maps, bestiary tokens and adventure path modules where you get the maps and tokens to run them.


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I have been using maptool and skype to play pathfinder for about three years. They are wonderful tools and after a quite big amount of time requested to the GM to prapare the encounters can give big results. But there are two problems I have experienced:
The first is the time needed to prepare the campaign
The second is linked to the fact that no prepared map is tried before the gaming session and I can't remember a night where one in my group didn't encounter at least some problems with two much data due to too big images or wrongly setted fog of war or sight limits....
So if there could be avalaible a system where most of the work is well done and tested, I will have no problem in paying for that.


I wonder if the new Carrion Crown Interactive Maps PDF is linked or a product that came about for GameSpace.

Looks like this might foot the Bill to what we may be seeing once we get more info, been a couple weeks now,(hint hint) :)

Cheers

Tom


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Roll20 is adding vision and lighting.

If it is as good as it looks, that may push them to the top of the pile.


Yeah, I saw the video of their vision and lighting. It looks pretty darn good. Very fluid.

Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

I find myself in the strange position of asking when this service / product will be available. (Normally, I don't have much patience for posters who bug Paizo for delivery dates.) We're about at the end of the promised Summer 2012 release.

I'd like to use PGS, if it's avialable. If not, that's , well, okay, but then I need to go off and invest time and resources learning another system instead.

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