Fantastic preview!!
Everyone loves Pathfinder Goblins. You said you were showing off "most" of the goblins in the set. So there are more??
I also loved the piece of news that the Town Square Flip Mat is being integarated into the adventure. (Hmm Id love a list of all the Pathfinder adventures that uses things flip-mats so I know which flip mats to scoop up).
The only dissapointing piece of news is that there are only 4 huges. I think a lot of us mistakingly thought there were 6 since a case of huges is 6.
Im happy to see that I can buy a case of regular standard boosters and still get my Rune Giant at 75% off. That gives me time to save money and get the 4 huges at later dates.
I have a case subscription. Will that automatically give me a Standard case and a Giant or a Bundle and a Giant? My credit card only has a $500 limit!! :)
WOW...25 bucks for a huge or 120 bucks for 6....and its random?? Thats gonna be a hard sell in the comic stores. Thats a hard sell for me and Im a plasticrack adict.
Some of the links in the blog need to be fixed/updated.
We noticed and it should be good to go now :)
So to purchase the giant I need to spend $120. Shouldn't you just get it for free? kind of a rip off. Your on your way to WOTC land. It just seems like a money grab because you can.
No if Im reading it right you need to spend $400 to purchase a Rune Giant.
You need to buy a standard case...not a huge case.
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Even worse. yay for greed!
You need to buy a standard case to buy a Rune Giant straight from Paizo. They are designed to be an incentive for mass purchases, but what then happens is up to the purchaser. The vast majority of case purchasers will be retailers or singles sites, who will decide what to do with them. Quite often they will then sell them on at retail price (I believe you an still pick up Black Dragons from heroes & monsters in various places online)
@ Jason - this is actually the first I'd heard about the huge case having 6 boosters - everything that I've seen had just been saying that there are 4 huges in the set.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Ouch, that's half a mortgage payment. Looks like something has to give after this.
As to Triga's comments, "Greed" is wanting something for less than they're willing to part with it for.
In my experience, you could always ask your FLGS to see if you can buy one of theirs. IIRC, The Guardtower has a huge black dragon on sale for $45, for example.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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The only dissapointing piece of news is that there are only 4 huges. I think a lot of us mistakingly thought there were 6 since a case of huges is 6.
At one time there were more than 6 Huges in the set. It's important for everyone to understand that these miniatures are the most expensive miniatures WizKids has ever produced, at just about every level. The sculpts are more complicated, there are more paint steps, and there is (generally speaking) a greater variety of sizes and shapes than in your average HeroClix set.
So by the time that everything got sorted out and WizKids got all of the costing in, they had to cut some of the Huge minis in the set.
That's the bad news. The good news is that those sculpts are still around, and I am positive we will find a way to fit them into a future set or special one-off release.
So to purchase the giant I need to spend $120. Shouldn't you just get it for free? kind of a rip off. Your on your way to WOTC land. It just seems like a money grab because you can.No if Im reading it right you need to spend $400 to purchase a Rune Giant.
You need to buy a standard case...not a huge case.
Nope. Even worse:
The Rune Giant has been produced in extremely limited quantities, and is available for purchase only to retailers (from their distributor), paizo.com Pathfinder Battles ongoing case subscribers, and customers who pre-order a Standard and Huge case(while supplies last).
$519.98 + $10 for the giant (plus shipping)
or$519.98 + $39.98 for the giant (plus shipping)
Not sure is the $39.98 is 75% off full price or is full price.
I've been priced out of this set.
-Swiftbrook
Fantastic preview!!
I have a case subscription. Will that automatically give me a Standard case and a Giant or a Bundle and a Giant?
This is my question as well.
*EDIT* I just checked my subscription page. It specifically says CASE BUNDLE
The case subscription will give you one Case Bundle for each Case you are subscribed for, and one Rune Giant (at 75% off) for each Premium you are subscribed for.
This is looking like a great set and I'm happy we have some of the product information. But for those of us considering pre-ordering multiple cases, we need to know what the rarity levels mean.
In H&M the rarity levels worked out to 2.55 : 2.22 : 2 : 1.33 (common : uncommon : rare : ultra rare) for the mediums. Excepting the ultra rares, the rest of the rarity levels were almost meaningless.
Should we expect the same rarity levels for the RotR set? Or will we get a much more meaningful difference like 3 : 2 : 1?
(Or more likely 3 : 2 : 1.5 : 1 assuming that WizKids produces secret ultra rares like the usually do).
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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I like this new format.
I was picking up 1 box at a time at my comic store and getting
1 mini at a time
8 at once and actually getting something good is a lot betterIs there any breakdown on the rarity of the boxes?
I am guessing like the old DDM format
1 rare
2 uncommons
5 commons
I think you are mixed up a little.
The 8-ct. brick involves 8 Standard Boosters, each with 4 miniatures in them.
Goblin Commando on Goblin Dog FTW! :-D
I need like a dozen of those...
In other news, however...
I've been priced out of this set.
I believe I may join you in that status. :-(
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: "We've worked hard with WizKids to pack the cases in such a way that customers who purchase a case of Standard Boosters, a case of Huge Boosters, and the Rune Giant can reasonably expect to complete the entire 65-figure set. While we cannot guarantee that this will happen due to the unlikely potential of packing errors at the factory, the intention is that a full line of cases will get a nearly complete set."
THIS. All of the above is why Paizo has my loyalty.
Like Ferris Bueller, Erik Mona is a righteous dude. :)
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The price is definitely scary, but... my anniversary is the end of July. I can just tell my husband he's buying me minis instead of jewelry. :)
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I really like all of the Pathfinder Goblins. But I will have to admit I may be more blown away by the Lamia Harridan.
The colors for Stickfoot is nice. And I like the tongue too.
The price is actually in line with what I was expecting. We have about five months before release. That is about $30 a week between now and then to get the full enchilada. It looks like eating out will be rare over the next five months.
Not including the Rune Giant, it looks like there will be 134 miniatures per Case Bundle or about $3.80 a miniature including the six huge minis. That is really not too bad. Mini pricing has been steadily climbing over the years. And where else are you going to getting minis like this? WotC? Hahahahahahaha. :)
Later,
Mazra
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Holy sticker shock, Batman!
After the 15% Pathfinder Advantage discount, Heroes & Monsters cost me $233.74 plus $16.68 shipping, for a total of $250.42. But a case bundle of this set is going to cost more than twice that, after the discount and before shipping.
It took nearly a month of deliberation before deciding to proceed with the Heroes & Monsters purchase. It was at the very outer limit of my spending range for a product that I will use once every couple of weeks at best. I appreciate Paizo's commitment to quality. If this had been spread out across two sets separated by a few months, I might even have gone for it.
There are a lot of sweet minis in this set. But at that price, all at once? No.
This.
I am choked up to admit it (I honestly have a tear forming), but I just cant do it. I have to be realistic.
Between now and August I MIGHT just break down and get a standard case and a Rune Giant. But even that is over $400.
There is absolutly no way I can do a bundle and a giant.
I have no choice but to no longer be a Case Subcriber. :(
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Correct, I was mixed up.
But still, are we guaranteed a rare in each booster?
It maybe unfair to compare but the DDM sets were 8 for about the same price if not less and you would get 1 rare, 2 uncommon and the rest commons.
I can live with the price hike but what are the chances of getting a rare when I go to the shop to get a booster?
If this had been spread out across two sets separated by a few months, I might even have gone for it.
There are a lot of sweet minis in this set. But at that price, all at once? No.
We did know this was going to be more expensive than H&M as the set is larger, huges are part of the set, and the special piece is a gargantuan. I've been putting money aside each week since H&M released figuring I might want 2 cases of this.
The $40 Rune Giant is a much better price than I expected as I had in mind WotC's $75 Orcus.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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This.
I am choked up to admit it (I honestly have a tear forming), but I just cant do it. I have to be realistic.
Between now and August I MIGHT just break down and get a standard case and a Rune Giant. But even that is over $400.
There is absolutly no way I can do a bundle and a giant.
I have no choice but to no longer be a Case Subcriber. :(
I was doing the math on the way home. Same here. I just had to plunk $100 for repairs to the house, have a reunion on the way and trying to pay down debt. I'm going to have to drop mine too.
Note: I'm not blaiming Paizo for any of it, or anything silly like 'greed'. Nor do I think the previous posters were.
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I'm in a similar position here. I love the direction this set is going and I completely understand where the pricing is coming from, but I can't really swing the whole deal at one time this go round. So I might grab a brick or so and then pick the rest up in bits and pieces. :)
Ummmm Erik you revealed back in December or January that you had seen the proof of the huge white dragon and it was awesome. So therefore one would assume that there is a Treachery Demon, Lamia Harridan, White Dragon, and a _________ as the huge minis. I think you may have forgotten you mentioned when you wrote the blog post :P
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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I am hoping one of the other goblins is a Goblin Warchanter.When Erik originally talked about the set at the end of the H&M previews he mentioned a goblin warchanter and goblin dog. It's possible that this has changed since then, but that's what I expect to be announced
Those are the two other goblin minis in the set (unless I'm forgetting one). We don't have any photo of the Warchanter right now, and the lone Goblin Dog photo we have isn't great. I'm hoping we can get better shots from the production run in a month or so.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Ummmm Erik you revealed back in December or January that you had seen the proof of the huge white dragon and it was awesome. So therefore one would assume that there is a Treachery Demon, Lamia Harridan, White Dragon, and a _________ as the huge minis. I think you may have forgotten you mentioned when you wrote the blog post :P
I forget nothing! :)
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Holy sticker shock, Batman!
I have to agree. This is way out of my price range!!!
I will only be buying a few of the singles. I hope you know what your doing...
After the 15% Pathfinder Advantage discount, Heroes & Monsters cost me $233.74 plus $16.68 shipping, for a total of $250.42. But a case bundle of this set is going to cost more than twice that, after the discount and before shipping.It took nearly a month of deliberation before deciding to proceed with the Heroes & Monsters purchase. It was at the very outer limit of my spending range for a product that I will use once every couple of weeks at best. I appreciate Paizo's commitment to quality. If this had been spread out across two sets separated by a few months, I might even have gone for it.
There are a lot of sweet minis in this set. But at that price, all at once? No.
This.
I am choked up to admit it (I honestly have a tear forming), but I just cant do it. I have to be realistic.
Between now and August I MIGHT just break down and get a standard case and a Rune Giant. But even that is over $400.
There is absolutly no way I can do a bundle and a giant.
I have no choice but to no longer be a Case Subcriber. :(
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When I reviewed Heroes and Monsters for ENWorld, I evaluated the low ball price for the minis from a deep discount online reseller, and added 10% to that price.
Even now, per mini, the cheapest price in the market for
Heroes and Monsters 40 pc set is $190.00 a case. That gets you typically 84 minis IIRC (my math might be off on accounting for small figs, I think it was 4 smalls per brick for 21 minis overall per brick) at a price of $2.26 per mini if you bought a case. You had to buy a little more than 2:1 to get the complete overall set. The black dragon was an extra $30 or so.
While the cheapest online price for this set is not yet announced, going on past margins from deep discount resellers, the 58 figures in the main set should cost $280 a case for 128 figs or == $2.18 per mini for the 58 S/M/L figures in the set.
Add in the cost of the huges, at a discount reseller, these will be about $16 each and the Rune Giant will be about $30-40 if you pre-order a case of each.
The cost on the minis, other than the new Huge figures is about the same as heroes and monsters folks -- if anything, it has actually gone down a little bit. Add in the price of the huges to the mix, and the price goes up significantly from H&M per mini to $2.71 each.
The packaging on the figures for the main S/M/L set requires you to buy a little more than 2:1 to complete a set of 58 (132 figs) (The "double" percentage you are required to overbuy in a case is actually a little up and varied a little less than 2% from H&M).
For the huges, which you do not have to buy as part of your case buy, the cost goes up steeply, but they are optional and are expensive figures to produce. The overbuy rate on those is only 1.5x if you buy a case -- sharply down by the stnadards of random mins. That's why they are bundled separately and that's ALSO why the price is as high for the huge minis as they are.
At the top of the popularity of DDMs when they were bundled 8 minis per booster, 12 per case, with a set of 60, you were typically required to purchase 30 boosters to *almost* complete a set. Typically, you would be short two rares and could either trade for them or after market them at about $8 each on release. Back then, the discount price was about $10 per booster -- add in the two missing rares from that purchase and call it $315 per set at a cost of $1.31 for the minis when they were not offering Huges as part of the set. At $2.18 for Pathfinder minis, we are not at twice the price, so that's not as bad as I feared.
When WotC did offer Huges in the set (Giants of Legend or WotDQ, say), the math changed significantly. You still needed 30 boosters to complete the set for about $480, and the cost per figure went up to $2 per mini when bought at discount.
It's been seven years since DDMs were at their height. Comparing Apples to Apples, (huge cost added in, but not the Rune Giant) these minis will work out to 2.71 per mini. Now, in fairness, the DDM huge minis sets gave you at least 30 huges for that price, here we get only 6. That's the reason it's not quite twice the price of DDM's huge mini sets.
The Rune Giant is a special offer and is comparable in cost to the D&D Icon series.
Given the bundling decisions and case packing, it's not as bad as you might think. Yes, these are expensive. There is a REASON WotC stopped manufacturing random minis, after all.
But Paizo and Wizkids think they are offering a much higher quality product than the DDM's were at the end of their run and that there are a large enough number of fans to support the product line. I happen to think Paizo is right and I am happy as hell to hear about the pricing/bundling decisions on the S/M/L cases. The cost of the huge minis seems very high to me, but I'm guessing that these are being sold as an ultra-premium product to the most ardent of fans. As I happen to be one, I'll buy em and treasure them.
Meh. It's a big price tag but it's also a big product.
$519 + $10 / 135 minis = $3.93 each.
So that hasn't changed. What has changed is that most of us got 83 or 84 minis including the dragon in H&M. Now we're looking at more than 50% more mini in the box.
Yeah, okay, it's a big whack of money. But it's also four months away. $450 after Pathfinder AP discount, plus shipping and most of us have to scrape up $125 a month. Not trivial, I know. But if gaming groups pool together it's reasonable. And really we've known this was coming for at least four months before now.
I'm not trying to pretend money grows on trees or that this bundle is free. Hopefully the next couple/few sets are back down in the 40 or fewer unique molds realm to bring case size down again and in turn the price. I suspect at $300 a case more of us can "just buy it" where at $550 a case it becomes a budget-and-plan-and-save-up purchase.
Anyway, thanks Erik. Great stuff.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Yeah, okay, it's a big whack of money. But it's also four months away. $450 after Pathfinder AP discount, plus shipping and most of us have to scrape up $125 a month. Not trivial, I know. But if gaming groups pool together it's reasonable. And really we've known this was coming for at least four months before now.
I was thinking June. August means a few more months to see where I am budget-wise. I don't think it will make that much a difference ($400 is still a lot to lay out in one pop) but at least I can plan.
Holy sticker shock, Batman!
After the 15% Pathfinder Advantage discount, Heroes & Monsters cost me $233.74 plus $16.68 shipping, for a total of $250.42. But a case bundle of this set is going to cost more than twice that, after the discount and before shipping.
It took nearly a month of deliberation before deciding to proceed with the Heroes & Monsters purchase. It was at the very outer limit of my spending range for a product that I will use once every couple of weeks at best. I appreciate Paizo's commitment to quality. If this had been spread out across two sets separated by a few months, I might even have gone for it.
There are a lot of sweet minis in this set. But at that price, all at once? No.
When you've cornered the plastic miniature market like Wizkids has you can get whatever price you want.
I've been warning Paizo about this in a bunch of thread involving the mini's
And it happened... I guess the Runelord of Greed really hasnt died after all!
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I will be buying two case bundles (subscription). However, where I am not rich, I am comfortable financially.
But I do understand why many can't/won't be purchasing this time around, it is a big pricetag.
I by no means feel Paizo (or WizKids) are ripping us off, as it's been said, it is very expensive to produce good quality pre-painted miniatures, and I do stress good quality.
I am ok with the higher pricing to get better product, I only worry the sales will not be this favorable this time around compared to H&M. The last thing I would want to see is for this to end.
The price per mini is irrelevant to my objection. I am very likely to end up ordering a Huge Case and Standard Brick. After the Pathfinder Advantage discount and shipping, that's likely to clock in about $250.
The price per mini will actually go up (it's always more cost effective to buy in bulk), but the simple fact is that I cannot afford to make the economically sensible choice. $250 is about my maximum limit for a single-item leisure purchase, and I can't do that very often. There are likely lots of others in this position -- people who signed up for Battles subscriptions for Heroes & Monsters will be dumping them for Runelords, because they can't afford to do otherwise.
Paizo's business model depends on getting and keeping as many subscribers to as many product lines as possible. Anything which encourages people to drop those subscriptions runs counter to Paizo's interests. I'll be interested to see how this comes out, but my guess is that Paizo is going to see sales of Runelords minis which bring in roughly as much income as the Heroes and Monsters set did, only with a higher production cost and hence less profit.
I get that. All of it. I just think it's very important to rebuke the "greed" posters with facts. Not that you're one of them so don't take the following to heart... I'm just clarifying my position.
It's silly to say Kraft is greed because a cargo ship full of Kraft Diner has a huge price tag. The per-box price is exactly the same, or less. Fact is this is a large set of minis. In many cases a prohibitively large set. But to be insulting to Paizo because they put out more product as opposed to more expensive product isn't called-for. If Hollywood puts out 10,000 awesome movies a year, clearly most people won't be able to afford to go see all of them. I'd far rather have more of something I want than I can afford than less of something I want than I can afford.
I'll reiterate I hope future cases return to the 40 or lower mold-count. THAT is the issue here. And I can understand why Paizo and WizKids felt 65 was needed to do justice to RotR. Six books, 15 or so levels worth of play. It's a BIG AP. 30 or 40 just wouldn't do it.
So again, I'm not targeting you. Just the "greed" people.
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To be fair a quick comparison:
Heroes & Monsters case: $275 with average 84 small to large miniatures. $3.27/mini
Rise of the Rune Lords Standard Case: $499 with 128 small to large miniatures. $3.125/mini
Without the huge and promo miniatures, RotRL is just a little cheaper than H&M.
Erik,
You may want to clarify what earns the ability to purchase a Rune Giant.
Note: Customers who preorder a Rise of the Runelords Standard Case will have the opportunity to purchase the mighty Rune Giant, a special promotional miniature that towers over other figures in the set and sits on a 4-inch base (while supplies last). This offer will be limited to one Rune Giant per case purchased.
Note: Purchasing a Standard Case qualifies you to purchase the following product*:
Pathfinder Battles: Rise of the Runelords Rune Giant
The Rune Giant has been produced in extremely limited quantities, and is available for purchase only to retailers (from their distributor), paizo.com Pathfinder Battles ongoing case subscribers, and customers who pre-order a Standard and Huge case(while supplies last).
I am guessing you have to order both a standard and huge case, but it is a bit contradictory.
Edit:
Ok, to add to it:
Note: To purchase a Rune Giant at this time, you must:
A) ...preorder a Rise of the Runelords Standard Booster Case
-or-
B) ...purchase a Rise of the Runelords Standard Booster Case as part of a Pathfinder Battles Case Subscription.
Ok, maybe I was wrong? So you only need a standard booster case? Not a huge case as well?
The price per mini is irrelevant to my objection. I am very likely to end up ordering a Huge Case and Standard Brick. After the Pathfinder Advantage discount and shipping, that's likely to clock in about $250.The price per mini will actually go up (it's always more cost effective to buy in bulk), but the simple fact is that I cannot afford to make the economically sensible choice. $250 is about my maximum limit for a single-item leisure purchase, and I can't do that very often. There are likely lots of others in this position -- people who signed up for Battles subscriptions for Heroes & Monsters will be dumping them for Runelords, because they can't afford to do otherwise.
Paizo's business model depends on getting and keeping as many subscribers to as many product lines as possible. Anything which encourages people to drop those subscriptions runs counter to Paizo's interests. I'll be interested to see how this comes out, but my guess is that Paizo is going to see sales of Runelords minis which bring in roughly as much income as the Heroes and Monsters set did, only with a higher production cost and hence less profit.
This is a good point, though personally the larger set sizes suit me better. My hope is that, even if the number of cases sold direct to customers drops, people will spread their purchases over time.
main target is distributors, not end users (as I understand things), so with luck the new format won't be damaging to their profit, just spreading it over a longer timeframe.
This is looking like a great set and I'm happy we have some of the product information. But for those of us considering pre-ordering multiple cases, we need to know what the rarity levels mean.
In H&M the rarity levels worked out to 2.55 : 2.22 : 2 : 1.33 (common : uncommon : rare : ultra rare) for the mediums. Excepting the ultra rares, the rest of the rarity levels were almost meaningless.
Should we expect the same rarity levels for the RotR set? Or will we get a much more meaningful difference like 3 : 2 : 1?
(Or more likely 3 : 2 : 1.5 : 1 assuming that WizKids produces secret ultra rares like the usually do).
I strongly agree with this.
The rarities were peculiar in H&M. I didn't realize that "secret ultra rares" was a usual thing. Personally, I don't see the point in that, but if it's what they usually do then I guess it's unlikely to change.
Nonetheless, I'd really like to see some concrete information about distributions of the various rarities.
This is a good point, though personally the larger set sizes suit me better. My hope is that, even if the number of cases sold direct to customers drops, people will spread their purchases over time.
main target is distributors, not end users (as I understand things), so with luck the new format won't be damaging to their profit, just spreading it over a longer timeframe.
The same with me, Steve, the larger sets suit me better as well. But I know the higher price offsets a lot of people, and understandably so. I feel you are correct the cases are more meant for the distributors, but the problem with that line is it discourages getting the Rune Giant.
I know at my local FLGS (which isn't all that local, unfortunately), they are still offering only to sell consumers a Black Dragon unless you buy a case, as well. So if you don't want to buy a case, you are pretty much relegated to buying one at a higher price online, which also turns off consumers.
So where I don't have an issue with the prices as I can afford it well enough, I can see why it turns off a lot of people. I just hope it attracts enough people like us to where the sets still sell very well.
This is looking like a great set and I'm happy we have some of the product information. But for those of us considering pre-ordering multiple cases, we need to know what the rarity levels mean.
In H&M the rarity levels worked out to 2.55 : 2.22 : 2 : 1.33 (common : uncommon : rare : ultra rare) for the mediums. Excepting the ultra rares, the rest of the rarity levels were almost meaningless.
Should we expect the same rarity levels for the RotR set? Or will we get a much more meaningful difference like 3 : 2 : 1?
(Or more likely 3 : 2 : 1.5 : 1 assuming that WizKids produces secret ultra rares like the usually do).I strongly agree with this.
The rarities were peculiar in H&M. I didn't realize that "secret ultra rares" was a usual thing. Personally, I don't see the point in that, but if it's what they usually do then I guess it's unlikely to change.
Nonetheless, I'd really like to see some concrete information about distributions of the various rarities.
I think the problem with having that sort of rarity level Mandor pointed out (3 : 2 : 1.5 : 1) is it makes it much more difficult to get the full set everyone wanted. I think the reason the rarity was much closer in H&M was so you could get a full set (or very close to it). When you have a rarity level of 3 for commons, and 1 for ultra rare, it would cause you to receive too many commons and much more difficult to get that ultra rare for your 'pull' (opening your random booster).
But yes, I agree, either way it would be nice to see some more concrete info on rarity distribution.