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I've Come Full Circle!

Tuesday, November 22, 2011

Not many people would guess this, but my love of roleplaying actually started because of a computer game. In 1980, I discovered one of the first computer roleplaying games, Akalabeth: World of Doom. It had very simple graphics, and gameplay amounted largely to wandering through computer-generated dungeons, killing things, and taking their loot. But I was hooked! I used to go down to my local computer store—Computer World, in Appleton, Wisconsin—and I'd play the game on their Apple II demo setup for hours. (The Computer World staff tolerated my incessant play because it attracted lots of attention to the computer!)

In 1981, I went off to St. Olaf College, leaving Computer World—and Akalabeth—behind. I soon needed to scratch my adventuring itch, so put I up a message on the bulletin boards asking if anybody at St. Olaf was playing Akalabeth. That didn't pan out, but it did lead someone to contact me about a game that was new to me: Dungeons & Dragons. Of course, I fell in love with D&D, eventually leading me to a career of more than 25 years in the gaming business, including working at Wizards of the Coast on the launch of D&D's third edition in 2000!

My boss on that 3E team was Ryan Dancey, and when I left Wizards, I told Ryan that I'd love to work with him again someday. But our lives diverged; I started Paizo, and Ryan went to CCP in Iceland to be the Chief Marketing Officer for the EVE Online MMO. We stayed in touch over the years, and after Ryan left CCP earlier this year, I asked him what he was going to do next. His answer: "How about a Pathfinder MMO?"


Visit goblinworks.com for more information about Pathfinder Online!

At first I was skeptical. I'd heard horror stories about hundreds of millions of dollars lost developing games that were never released. Or games that launched with a big splash only to become zombies within months, their subscriber base dwindled down to a barely sustainable number. But this was Ryan, and I really wanted to work with him again. So I challenged him to convince me—to make me a believer. Over the next few months, Ryan started developing a plan for this Pathfinder MMO, and I started to believe. The plan wasn't 100%, though, so I brought the resources of Paizo to bear on it. Erik Mona, Vic Wertz, James Jacobs, Jeff Alvarez, Gary Teter, Wes Schneider, Sarah Robinson, and more each contributed unique insight to help us come up with a plan for the game—now christened Pathfinder Online—that we could all believe in. What we are announcing today is the result of that work.

Pathfinder Online's journey is just beginning. We've started a brand-new company called Goblinworks to create the game. At the moment, it's owned by myself, Ryan, Paizo, and Mark Kalmes. Mark is one of the top tech guys in the MMO field, and he'll be Goblinworks' Chief Technical Officer. (And we're currently looking for additional investors to help us move forward with Pathfinder Online.)

Traditionally, projects like this are developed in secrecy, with information leaking out in whispers for months before a formal announcement. But we don't want our loyal customers to find out about Pathfinder Online through rumored half-truths; we want you in on the ground floor.

A lot of big picture work has already been done on Pathfinder Online, and it's going to be a bit different from your traditional fantasy MMO. It's going to focus around the characters you create, in a world that will grow out of your interactions, developing the way you choose to develop it. It takes place in the River Kingdoms of Golarion, with our own Kingmaker Adventure Path providing some of the inspiration. There will be an overarching storyline, and dungeons aplenty to explore, but where Pathfinder Online is going to thrive is in the ability of each of you to leave your mark on the world. Do you want to build a castle that you own and control? Go for it. Want to start a town and rally folks to your banner? Do that. Do you want to ally with the neighboring villages to form a new nation—or perhaps wage war on them instead? The choice is yours. Want to become the most feared bandit in the River Kingdoms? The path is available. Want to become the greatest armorer that Golarion has ever seen? All it takes is hard work. If you can imagine doing something in the world of Golarion, we want you to be able to do that in Pathfinder Online.

The fun is just starting! Please use the discussion thread here on paizo.com to interact with Ryan, Mark, myself, and the rest of the Goblinworks crew as we start this new adventure. We're going to be very interactive with you, the Pathfinder community, because we want this game to be YOURS. Stay tuned for blogs, trailers, and other teasers as we move forward. In true Paizo fashion, we will keep you guys in the loop, and listen to your feedback as we progress.

Things have come a long way since Akalabeth. Join me for the ride and help make Pathfinder Online the best MMORPG ever!

Lisa Stevens
CEO, Paizo Publishing
COO, Goblinworks

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Goblinworks Pathfinder Adventure Path Pathfinder Online
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Goblin Squad Member

Well, it certainly is an unexpected announcement and I have to admit after reading the FAQ it sounds really interesting.

My biggest complaint about games like WoW is that the players really don't have an impact on anything. It doesn't matter what you do the world remains the same until the Developers release the next content patch.

An MMO where what I do actually has an impact is very interesting to me

Up to the players to set up Banks and Auction Houses.... that is honestly a very scary thought that one.

Though I do like the appeal of playing a Dwarven Weaponsmith who living like a hermit in the mountains mastering the riddles of steel, forging all manner of exotic magical weapons for anyone who happens to find him.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Scott Betts wrote:
Mothman wrote:


I believe they are talking about the archetype system that exists for the table top RPG. See the Advanced Players Guide.
I'm actually fairly sure they're not...

Still wondering what you think it does mean?


I am glad to see Paizo expanding its business and embracing videogames, a much larger (and competitive) field than pen and paper rpgs. Even if MMOs are not my cup of tea, I wish you success. If you ever publish a Mac client I may even try it out.

Goblin Squad Member

Mothman wrote:
Scott Betts wrote:
Mothman wrote:


I believe they are talking about the archetype system that exists for the table top RPG. See the Advanced Players Guide.
I'm actually fairly sure they're not...
Still wondering what you think it does mean?

I'm imagining something much closer to EVE, DCUO, or perhaps even to a Bethesda game - allowing the player to decide on a custom set of skills to specialize in, or follow a traditional archetype.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Scott Betts wrote:
Mothman wrote:
Scott Betts wrote:
Mothman wrote:


I believe they are talking about the archetype system that exists for the table top RPG. See the Advanced Players Guide.
I'm actually fairly sure they're not...
Still wondering what you think it does mean?
I'm imagining something much closer to EVE, DCUO, or perhaps even to a Bethesda game - allowing the player to decide on a custom set of skills to specialize in, or follow a traditional archetype.

I see, that could be cool.

Goblin Squad Member

Greylurker wrote:

Well, it certainly is an unexpected announcement and I have to admit after reading the FAQ it sounds really interesting.

My biggest complaint about games like WoW is that the players really don't have an impact on anything. It doesn't matter what you do the world remains the same until the Developers release the next content patch.

An MMO where what I do actually has an impact is very interesting to me

Okay.

Guys.

This is an MMO project.

There will be thousands of players inhabiting the same virtual world.

As a developer, how is it possible to deliver unique, appreciably deep opportunities for players to have a "real impact" on the world (whatever that means) when you have that many players, all of whom want to "impact" the world just as much as you?

I'm asking seriously. How is it possible? I want to know. Because no one has ever done it. Historically, when developers have put effort into trying to create this sort of dynamic game, the games have ended up dreadfully shallow in these opportunities. EVE has been the single shining example of a dynamic, player-driven massive game world, but the audience they found with that game was driven, extremely competitive, and very hardcore. It does not mesh with my understanding (an understanding that may, I acknowledge, be inaccurate) of the Pathfinder fan base.

Goblin Squad Member

Mothman wrote:
Scott Betts wrote:
Mothman wrote:


I believe they are talking about the archetype system that exists for the table top RPG. See the Advanced Players Guide.
I'm actually fairly sure they're not...
Still wondering what you think it does mean?

Something more akin to a skills based system, like Fusion, WoD or even elder scrolls.

Where you can focus of specific aspects of your character. So if you want to be a sneaky theif, you can focus on improving your stealth and lock picking, but avoid improving your melee attacks.

I suspect that the archetypes will effectively open up class features that you add in, customise still further. So in the case of the sneaky theif, you would be able to take a trap finding ability, and something equivilant to bardic knowledge , completely avoiding something like sneak attack, because all the 'sneaky/skilly' class abilities are open to any one in the 'sneaky/skilly' archetype, and that includes abilities from the inquisitor, ninja, rogue, and bard just for a start.

But that's just a guess based on what has been said so far.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Scott Betts wrote:


As a developer, how is it possible to deliver unique, appreciably deep opportunities for players to have a "real impact" on the world (whatever that means) when you have that many players, all of whom want to "impact" the world just as much as you?

I'm asking seriously. How is it possible? I want to know. Because no one has ever done it. Historically, when developers have put effort into trying to create this sort of dynamic game, the games have ended up dreadfully shallow in these opportunities. EVE has been the single shining example of a dynamic, player-driven massive game world, but the audience they found with that game was driven, extremely competitive, and very hardcore. It does not mesh with my understanding (an understanding that may, I acknowledge, be inaccurate) of the Pathfinder fan base.

It simply isn't possible, or more accurately not practical. After all you can't have the first person online "win", the game leaving nothing for the rest to do. So far the only real answer to this problem is World of Warcraft's phasing system which allows you to see YOUR or your party's impact on a situation. It has the advantage of giving you the impression of having made a change, while leaving game content for others to experience.

It's worthwhile noting that Eve! Online isn't a game where you progress through an MMORG storyline at all from my experience at it. It's a game where your impact is mainly made on other players, it's essentially a competitive trading game whose main interaction is player vs. player.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Scott Betts wrote:


Okay.

Guys.

This is an MMO project.

There will be thousands of players inhabiting the same virtual world.

As a developer, how is it possible to deliver unique, appreciably deep opportunities for players to have a "real impact" on the world (whatever that means) when you have that many players, all of whom want to "impact" the world just as much as you?

I'm asking seriously. How is it possible? I want to know. Because no one has ever done it. Historically, when developers have put effort into trying to create this sort of dynamic game, the games have ended up dreadfully shallow in these opportunities. EVE has been the single shining example of a dynamic, player-driven massive game world, but the audience they found with that game was driven, extremely competitive, and very hardcore. It does not mesh with my understanding (an understanding that may, I acknowledge, be inaccurate) of the Pathfinder fan base.

I have been asking myself the same sort of questions, but that is what is being suggested; look at Lisa’s opening post, or a few of the comments that folk such as Mark Kalmes have made around the place. Now phrases such as “a world that will grow out of your interactions, developing the way you choose to develop it” and “the ability of each of you to leave your mark on the world” can mean different things to different people, but there is a clear suggestion that the intent IS for player actions to have a significant impact on the game world.

Maybe Lisa and co are thinking further outside the box than some of us.

Cheliax Goblin Squad Member

My advice: play to your strengths.

If possible I would suggest getting a franchise from some other MMO (like WoW) and just adding the Golarion story / graphic elements as has been suggested elsewhere. I don't honestly believe you're going to win with any sort of fancy programming.

Although I don't know WOW very well, I expect that the Golarion setting is an order of magnitude or two richer and better realised. That's been your company's focus all these years together with masses of fan feedback.

And be very careful about allowing PFO to back-pressure PFS/Golarion.

Richard


richard develyn wrote:
If possible I would suggest getting a franchise from some other MMO (like WoW) and just adding the Golarion story / graphic elements as has been suggested elsewhere. I don't honestly believe you're going to win with any sort of fancy programming.

I believe Paizo has posted several times in this thread, as well as the FAQ for this project, that they are LICENCING THE GAME ENGINE.

Goblin Squad Member

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Scott Betts wrote:
Greylurker wrote:

Well, it certainly is an unexpected announcement and I have to admit after reading the FAQ it sounds really interesting.

My biggest complaint about games like WoW is that the players really don't have an impact on anything. It doesn't matter what you do the world remains the same until the Developers release the next content patch.

An MMO where what I do actually has an impact is very interesting to me

Okay.

Guys.

This is an MMO project.

There will be thousands of players inhabiting the same virtual world.

As a developer, how is it possible to deliver unique, appreciably deep opportunities for players to have a "real impact" on the world (whatever that means) when you have that many players, all of whom want to "impact" the world just as much as you?

I'm asking seriously. How is it possible? I want to know. Because no one has ever done it. Historically, when developers have put effort into trying to create this sort of dynamic game, the games have ended up dreadfully shallow in these opportunities. EVE has been the single shining example of a dynamic, player-driven massive game world, but the audience they found with that game was driven, extremely competitive, and very hardcore. It does not mesh with my understanding (an understanding that may, I acknowledge, be inaccurate) of the Pathfinder fan base.

There is a way, but what your left with wouldn't be an MMO as we know it.

What you would proably need to start off with is a nearly blank canvas. A vast map, at least twice as large as any existing world. That basic map is then populated with resources, via procedural generation, so no two servers are the same.

Monsters and animals all set up with behaviours, which they try to carry out. These behaviours lead the monsters and animals interacting with players, other monster and animals and NPCs, based upon the circumstance and their needs.

So you might come across a snoozing kobold, and return twenty minutes later to find he has been joined by three of his clan and they are now busy in the process of skinning a deer. As you watch them, they prepare it, and carry it back to camp, cook it and then have a feast. Two days later, that tribe raids your farm on mass.

If monster or animals achieve their 'aims' they get tougher or more numerous, gain more treasure, and in the case of monster, become more aggressive, they also send of individuals to start new tribes, in once deserted territory. This gives players a reason to attack and kill monsters. They have treasure, and left unchecked they become a threat to your farm/village/castle or what ever.

Have only one NPC controlled village in the whole game, and that is the starting area, where basic equipment and supplies can be bought. There is a low trickle of supplies into it from outside the game, but mostly equipment and resources come from PCs selling materials they have harvested, or liberated monsters, which they can sell to one another directly, or sell to an NPC vender.

Around that village their is a zone which cannot be built in, but beyond players can build in a relatively free form manner, using resources and equipment they have crafted or purchased. They can hire PCs, or NPCs to help in the construction. This way, small or large communities can form around precious resources.

Lastly, allow dynamic and interesting PVP, though factions. None of this 'hoarde vs Alliance' rubbish. Instead, allow players to create and join factions as they will.

make the default position 'independent' No PVP enabled.

However, faction membership should have significant advantages, but membership also means that certain other factions can attack you.

When a player creates a faction, they choose a type of faction such as mercenary company, church, brigand gang, trade house, village ect. This selection affects which kinds of Faction have free PVP reign against you and what kind of advantages members get.

Over time, all this should lead to a state where no two worlds are the same, where the interplay between guilds, villages, kingdoms brigand gangs and the environment makes every server its own world. With every players actions truly shaping the world in a unique way.


I never got that invested into Golarion but after playing three MMOs that are based on previously established IPs here's a word of warning: NOTHING wrecks a great setting like an MMO. I loved the WarCraft P&P game, I love Star Trek and I like the DC Universe. Playing MMO's based on them always ended in frustration.

Cheliax Goblin Squad Member

Quandary wrote:
richard develyn wrote:
If possible I would suggest getting a franchise from some other MMO (like WoW) and just adding the Golarion story / graphic elements as has been suggested elsewhere. I don't honestly believe you're going to win with any sort of fancy programming.
I believe Paizo has posted several times in this thread, as well as the FAQ for this project, that they are LICENCING THE GAME ENGINE.

No need to shout.

Besides which, I can't see this in the FAQ at all, and I can't remember seeing anything to this effect in this thread either.

[Correction: I have now seen a statement to this effect on another thread relating to this announcement]

Richard

Goblin Squad Member

LazarX wrote:
It simply isn't possible, or more accurately not practical.

This is essentially my understanding. I'll be interested in seeing how successful Goblinworks is in proving this conventional wisdom wrong.


Must... resist...

With me now being older and more mature, I am sure I can handle this, once it comes out, with more reasoning than the other MMO out there.

- Haha, that was a good one.

Sounds really cool queuing up for a beta key, ah, screw that, alpha!


MMO? Na not for me. I dont like MMOs except for WoW which is great because of its funny grafics, constant add-ons and easy gameplay.

But for PF I would have preferred a game like Baldurs Gate. Maybe such a game will be announced next year.

I am sceptical about the PFMMO, as you can see. Wouldnt it be better to start small and collect more experience in the computer game field? Maybe starting with ipad games or so?

I wish you luck of course and all in all I dont hope that Paizo will loose too much money or reputation because of this new MMO project.


I have played uncounted hours on PC RPG-ish games, going back to Temple of Apshai (on an Atari 1200XL) through Neverwinter Nights 2 and Mount and Blade.

But I've tried a couple MMOs and found them uninteresting. NW Nights persistent worlds were more enjoyable.

If the PF Online world is going to 'grow with the players,' I hope it will be in some fashion similar to the PF Society model. I have limited time to play an MMO and if the game content just surges ahead based on what's happening with players who spend hours daily on the game, what's the point for casual players like me? I'd be better served just getting Skyrim or Diablo 3.

I would have preferred a PF game like Baldur's Gate or such. But I'll give the MMO a try.


I don't think this is a good idea. MMOs are a dime a dozen, with barely anything distinguishable between them. Why would anyone want to play another one?

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

I'm guessing Q4 2014.

Qadira

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber

I must confess I don't feel very positive about this. Ultimately, my experience of MMOs was fairly poor. The River Kingdoms is an area I find a bit dull, frankly. And I'm also wondering about this "You can impact on the gameworld" stuff too, which seems a bit unlikely (after all, even the PF AP's actually have no impact on continuity in table-top world). So I find this a bit shrug-worthy. Hopefully they won't lose a packet on this, and impact upon Paizo.

Goblin Squad Member

Erik Mona wrote:
This is very exciting news, and we're thrilled to finally get to share it with you! We plan to monitor this thread throughout the day and the coming weeks, so let us know what you think!

Can we finally get some apps going for digital character sheets and generators?

Goblin Squad Member

You've certainly got my attention (you would have had that with any video game), I'm excited to see what paizo can do in the MMO field, but at the same time I'm very skeptical. I've been involved in MMO's for at least 8 years now, and there have been many similar claims about being able to do anything in a 'lifelike' world. For many MMO's these promises are made and then at launch you get maybe 75% of the promised functionality with promises of future updates that never materialize. My only advice for that as a customer, is please make sure the game is a finished, (in the sense that any dynamic project like an MMO can be) polished product before it hits the store shelves. Best of luck, I look forward to playing your product!

Qadira Goblinworks Executive Founder

Awesome!

I've stayed away from mmo's for years now. I'll definitely give this a try.

Goblin Squad Member

A few points I'd like to raise:

1. Good luck! I'm all for seeing a project like this realized.

2. Single-player! I'm also in the vocal crowd of people that would enjoy a Pathfinder-Baldurs-Gate-of-Dragon-Age.

3. Setting! The River Kingdoms are a great place to work on a sandbox orientated game; but I would like to raise the point of diversity and lost-opportunity: I can understand that a limit has to be placed and *all* of the Inner Sea would be far too resource intensive to propose as an initial effort - but what about including the immediate neighbors of the River Kingdoms? (Brevoy, Numeria, Ustalav, Razmiran, Kyonin and Galt)

4. Content-generation! I imagine that allowing for a scripting system akin to Second Life could do wonders for user-based content generation.

5. One Life vs Free Lives! I feel partial towards a life system that doesn't reduce to deaths being inconsequential. Death should be permanent, unless you can afford (and have prepared) for a raise dead or the like. PvP would not really be viable in general for such a system, but I'm fine with that.

6. Mature! I would very much like to see Paizo keep up its excellent record of tackling and presenting mature themes. Having a child-safe option in the settings is fine to reduce gore and explicit imagery, sure, but by default I want to be able to enter a temple of Calistria and leave the place blushing.

7. Up-front Design! What has been presented to us (the public) are grand-sweeping design plans without any detail. This could benefit from an out-in-the-open design approach similar to the rule playtests that have proven quite successful. A call to "what would you like to see?" really is too open-ended and doesn't foster a sense of being involved with the game. We need to understand the proposed design to give meaningful feedback and suggestions.

8. Stat-driven vs Player driven! I'm concerned with the notion that a level 20 character might be able to own a city better than a level 1 character. That feels weird and wrong.

9. Population generation! If, say, my character founded a village. What would determine its growth? Do NPCs naturally begin to populate the village if the circumstances are favorable? Is it somehow linked to PC population in the village?

10. Incentive! Is there anything stopping me from becoming the greatest wizard-king prophet that happens to be the best smith in the lands? In other words, can I do anything I want, or can I do everything I want? (The latter I would consider poor design.) But if so, what incentive do I have to continue playing once my character has reached the glass ceiling?

11. Many Characters? Has it been considered that instead of having an MMO where I create a character and play him/her to my hearts content, to instead allow me to create many characters (kind of like an MMO version of a fantasy Sims)

Andoran Goblin Squad Member

This is excellent news. I'm glad to see a fresh MMO that doesn't follow the WoW trend. All too many these days are just clones. I'm really excited about this sandbox environment, and I'll be looking forward to the day I can play! Well done!


Best of luck!

However, I am sure I will never play a Pathfinder MMO.


One request.

Let it have minecraft graphics with maximum potential for storytelling/player options-on-top-of-player-options-to-the-point-of-ridiculousness.

If those graphics are too difficult to maintain and still have the latter, I'd be happy with a top-down 2d interface.

The alternative (IMO, of course) would be blockbuster graphics and fun-for-ten-minutes gameplay - which has been done to death...

Lantern Lodge

I'd like to add just a tad bit more to a prior post. I know a lot of people probably wouldn't want an entirely turn-based rpg but I still can't see any reason why a company couldn't write an MMO then when a character goes into "combat mode" that the game engine shifts into turn-based combat and then shifts out when finished... I think it sticks to what Pathfinder is and does best.

man... I really the old gold box games.. (pool of radiance, secret of the silver blades,,etc).. brings back memories.

The games of today are just of bunch of sugary - button mashing nonsense.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Liz Courts wrote:

Whoa. Akalabeth. That's bringing me back to some of my earliest gaming.

So glad we can finally share with y'all! :D

I did not play Akalabeth, but I spend many hours on the Ultima series that followed it. To this day, I consider those games among the best CRPGs ever made.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32, 2012 Top 4

I'm all for this!

My hope is that Pathfinder Online breaks open new ground for MMOs. Innovation is the key here. I hope Paizo takes a cue from Funcom's upcoming Secret World game and develops something similarly new to the increasingly tired MMO industry. Paizo is a little late to the MMO party, but with the proven brains, ingenuity, and creativity of the Paizo staff, I'm sure they can pull this off.

I'm not a big MMO'er, but I'll certainly give Pathfinder Online the old college try. Anything to support this company. ;-)


A GOLARION SANDBOX MMORPG!??!?

*Dies of shock, but Pharasma says I get to come back to play Pathfinder Online*

Now, a few things. While I think the ability for us to customize and create and such is great, be careful not to go the Star Wars Galaxies route where most of the land is covered in houses, generators, factories and such to a degree that I used to joke about why there wasn't a city around the Sarlacc pit in Return of the Jedi (granted later it was changed so you couldn't build that close to the Sarlacc pit due to the Imperial guild that did so setting up turrets that would kill any Rebels trying to get the exploration badge and they got in trouble, but it never should have happened in the first place).

I think the best route I've seen (and if you can come up with a better one that doesn't clutter the landscape like in SWG, great) is the way Everquest II does it. There are many houses throughout the area, and you can "buy" any one you want. When you go inside, you can customize it any way you want. Now, game mechanic wise thousands of players also own that house, but when you enter, you enter YOUR house.


Two words...

ROCK ON!

~Lord of the Rings Online Beta Tester, Lifetime Subscriber, Warg Stalker MPvP, Elendilmir Server.

~Star Wars:The Old Republic Beta Tester - Jedi Consular

Also eagerly waiting for Fallout Online by either Interplay or Bethesda.

Taldor

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Tales Subscriber

Apart from using the River Kingdoms and having a general fantasy theme, what will this have in common with Pathfinder?

Will it have PFRPG classes and stats?
Races?
Spells?

Andoran RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

The more I think about the announcement/blog, the more I am drawn to the begginning part the most - does anyone know where I can get a copy of Aklabeth? I haven't played that in ages.

Goblin Squad Member

i really hope they stay as close to the paper and pen as they can i know not every thing can go in to a mmo but i would really like to tack a carter from one or the other with out much translation at all

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Scott Betts wrote:
LazarX wrote:
It simply isn't possible, or more accurately not practical.
This is essentially my understanding. I'll be interested in seeing how successful Goblinworks is in proving this conventional wisdom wrong.

They'll still have to deal with the same basic logic and multi-player situation. Everyone pays for content and the expectation that they will be experiencing it. Warcraft wouldn't be the success it is if only one group got to fight and defeat the big bad of each chapter. What you want can easily be done in first person solo games, but a shared world is quite a different matter. Roleplayers need to frame their expectations with these inherent format limitations in mind.

Blizzard came up with the compromise solution of phasing and I can't imagine Goblinworks being able to do anything but something similar.

Andoran

This is very cool. I'm 33 now. I anticipate being nearly 40 by the time this actually hits shelves. Even so, I'm stoked.

My one request: I'm happy to hear that the game has some PvP aspect to it. I would encourage you to look at how Guild Wars implemented that concept, particularly the Guild vs. Guild battles and the Arena game types. I wasted so many hours doing those two events that I can hardly conceive of it; and I'd do so again.

Also, if players can build cities, I highly recommend that the forum community go all-in on a city of our own. Call it Sebastiania. Done.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

That's a very ambitious project, and congrats to Paizo to being able to take it on. It's exciting to see something this huge come into light, and I wish it every success and more.

It's hard to sound enthusiastic though, because I'm a single player gamer. No MMOs for me, for a variety of reasons not worth going into, but they're good reasons for me personally. So it's disappointing to see your favorite company make something which is basically labeled, "THIS NEAT THING. IT IS NOT FOR YOU." But I also know I am a niche gamer who likes to play in niche markets, and if you're going to take on computer games, you should definitely cater to... well, not me. If you want to make money, anyway, and I hear that's important in the corporate world.

But I truly do hope it does well, because that's still good for Pathfinder in general and Paizo deserves all the success it can get.


Andrew Jackson 394 wrote:

Not for me but good luck.

I gave up on pc gaming a while back, if you can do an Xbox version I would be interested.

^ This.


Well, it's official. Pathfinder plays just like an MMO. :P

Goblin Squad Member

Well I would of preferred seeing a single player game as a MMO is a beast to undertake and an online game is many more times complex to develop, balance and sustain. However, if D and D online can work, no reason Pathfinder can't. There's plenty of talent floating about from various MMO studios, you'll really want to take a long, hard look and analysis at the MMO space and see what succeeds, what treads water and what fails. The development budgets for AAA titles are in excess of AAA movies. The MMO audience is a fickle bunch..


Congratulations to Paizo on their new venture!

I'm one of those people who don't play MMORPG and would rather have the Baldur's Gate style single player. But on the other hand, this allows me to save my money for the other products Paizo produces that I like. So I'm cool with that.

The one thing that concerns me about this announcement is that I've already had to struggle for the last dozen years or so to find and establish rpg groups. When EQ first came out, a number of my players gave up the dice rolling and shared company in favor of solitude with a computer screen. That only multiplied with the release of WoW to the point where some players never came back to good ol' tabletop rpgs.

Given that, I must admit it bothers a little that my favorite RPG company is now looking to contribute to this unfortunate dilemma.

Best of luck nonetheless. I'm happy to see so many excited people celebrating the announcement. I have no doubt that Paizo will continue to demonstrate excellence.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

First of all I would like to congratulate you on creating such a wonderfully exciting and dynamic table top RPG. I've loved it from beta all the way up to the current incarnations of expanded bestiary and ultimate combat/magic.

As an avid MMO player I am extremely excited to see this game come to fruition. One of the largest areas I've always felt was lacking from tabletop RPGs was the consistent player base. I've always had to fight and scrounge for players that are not only consistently excited about the game, but those that can manage to show up on time and regularly to sessions. I've always found that by opening the games up to the internet, I've had much more success finding a dedicated group willing to not only game regularly as a group but get into the role play as well.

Although there are many challenges when designing a game of this magnitude, I look forward to seeing how Goblin Works will topple these seemingly impossible tasks and bring what we all know and love into the game. If nothing else, the game will have a loyal and passionate fan base excited about playing with others of their ilk. From playing MMO's the players have always been the most memorable part of the entire experience and can often make bad games good and great games even better. Goblin Works and Paizo seem to be aware of this taking the unorthodox approach of player feedback right from the get go.

I look forward to the creation of the game, not only because I want to play it, but also I am excited to participate in something I believe will bring a breath of fresh air to the stale MMO genre.

Lantern Lodge

My first thought was to make sure it wasn't April 1st. I was flabbergasted, but I look forward to seeing more - I'll probably be checking it out.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Exocrat wrote:
I'm guessing Q4 2014.

Putting it head to head with Everquest Next, a TOR expansion and probably WoD online.

Also, the days of a startup putting out a great MMO are over. The projects are a lot bigger than they were 10 years ago. A new company REALLY should do another game first with the same engine to get familiar with it and each other. A 30 hour single player/co-op RPG would do that, as well as introduce video gamers to the setting, giving you a larger market for an MMO.

I honestly doubt a Pathfinder game could even pull in LOTRO numbers as it is.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
B0sh1 wrote:

Well I would of preferred seeing a single player game as a MMO is a beast to undertake and an online game is many more times complex to develop, balance and sustain. However, if D and D online can work,

I'm not sure that you can say that it worked, given that it's already made the transition from subscription to free to play. Overall it looks like more on it's way out.

Andoran

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I just wanted to say I'm amazed at all the negative back lash and people demanding the MMO be their way or else they won't play it.

Personally, I'm excited as heck. I don't care if its f2p or p2p, I don't care if it has pvp or is strictly pve, Paizo's name on it (no offense to Goblinworks, I just don't know you) means I will give it a shot and I will judge it based on its merits alone.

Qadira Goblin Squad Member

HawaiianWarrior wrote:

"or they can use the game's archetype system go beyond the standard options to create nearly any sort of character imaginable."

EXCELLENT!

Now, can we PLEASE have something like this for the tabletop RPG? I hate picking a class and would love a method of making a character outside those little preconceived boxes.

Thank you.

Play GURPS. Pathfinder is fine with a classed system.

Goblin Squad Member

Mothman wrote:


Maybe Lisa and co are thinking further outside the box than some of us.

It doesn't matter how far outside the box you think if the technology doesn't exist to provide it. Currently the (best and pretty much only) technology type that exists to provide an experience where your character/party/raid can have a "change" on the terrain of the game world is the phasing system used by WoW (and slowly making its way into other games as well). Phasing is complex, resource intensive (at least at first), and in some cases can lock you out of content (something I personally have no problem with on a macro level, but find frustrating when the inner completionist in me finds it can no longer do Quest Chain #1456900).

I'm interested to see what Goblinworks' statement of "player impact" will actually rattle out as. As I've said before, the folks behind this have a seriously GREAT opportunity to do a real huge deep-dive into the MMO's that have come before them, and find out what did not work, and then do the opposite.

If I had to make one insanely outrageous request, it would be this:

Dear Paizo/Goblinworks:

Do not fall prey to feature-creep. Seriously. I don't care how cool it is that some committee somewhere had a meeting and decided that players want tiny pets they can Pokemon-Battle while riding steam powered mastadons across their player-created superhighways while dressing in bunny costumes and emoting /vampire_pose_2. I really DO NOT CARE about that. What I care about is whether or not your game delivers a solid, stable foundation of fun, interaction, and most importantly, immersion.

You are not making Second Life: Golarion Edition. You are not making City Of Ever-Expanding Useless Emotes. You're making Pathfinder Online.

If you fall prey to feature creep, and start adding "cool new stuff" at the expense of immersion, you will ultimately fail. I'm sure you know this, but someone needed to say it as the voice of your fan-base.

We love you guys. We want you to make this the awesomest awesome that ever awesomed. :)

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