Enter the Dragon!

Thanks for showing off the new dragons! I'm especially interested in the rules for making your own types of imperial dragons. Would it be farily straightforward to adapt these to create new chromatic or metalic dragons also?

I am curious though about the forest dragon's breath weapon. What exactly is it made of that it does piercing damage? Splinters? Thorns? Something else?

Awesome I didn't expect the Beastairy 3 preview to be on Tuesday.

Immune to poison and piercing damage breathweapon interesting.

Asian themed monster, sweet. Love the pic.

How exactly does it get both a bite and gore attack. I do not see two heads.

It does look pretty and seems flavorful.

How exactly does it get both a bite and gore attack. I do not see two heads.

Horns AND a mouth?

It's just like a barbarian with the totem rage power to grant a gore attack can gore and bite.

EDIT:And I must say, I love the art work. Looking forward to the write up to find out the piercing breath weapon as folks were pointing out above.

In before "I don't use Asian themed stuff so Paizo shouldn't make it."

How old is the dragon ion the cover of the gazetteer?

:)

How old is the dragon ion the cover of the gazetteer?

:)

QUITE a bit older than the one presented here.

Yeah it is a nice pic.

I am surprised at how low his fly skill mod is though.

Yeah it is a nice pic.

I am surprised at how low his fly skill mod is though.

Well, the description says it doesn't prefer to fly, so I assume it put no ranks in fly, and only has a +1 Dex mod and the size penalty contributing to the total.

Thanks for showing off the new dragons! I'm especially interested in the rules for making your own types of imperial dragons. Would it be farily straightforward to adapt these to create new chromatic or metalic dragons also?

I am curious though about the forest dragon's breath weapon. What exactly is it made of that it does piercing damage? Splinters? Thorns? Something else?

I'resonably sure that what Stephen means by making your own Imperial Dragons is the rules for building up dragons that aren't on the young/adult/ancient spread, in the same way you can already build Chromatic, Metallic & Primal dragons using the tables on p90-91 (92-93 in Bestiary 2)

Just wish it was a bit older so we could see something special. The only thing that pops out to me is the piercing damage breath attack, which is cool.

Are there going to be good Imperial dragons, I mean they are obviously based on Chinese dragons...

"In contrast to European dragons, which are considered evil, Chinese dragons traditionally symbolize potent and auspicious powers, particularly control over water, rainfall, hurricane, and floods. The dragon is also a symbol of power, strength, and good luck. With this, the Emperor of China usually uses the dragon as a symbol of his imperial power."

Are there going to be good Imperial dragons, I mean they are obviously based on Chinese dragons...

"In contrast to European dragons, which are considered evil, Chinese dragons traditionally symbolize potent and auspicious powers, particularly control over water, rainfall, hurricane, and floods. The dragon is also a symbol of power, strength, and good luck. With this, the Emperor of China usually uses the dragon as a symbol of his imperial power."

The imperial dragons have these alignments, ranging from least powerful to most powerful:

Lawful Evil (underworld dragon)
Chaotic Good (sea dragon)
Lawful Good (sky dragon)
Chaotic Evil (forest dragon)
Neutral (sovereign dragon)

The Imperial dragons represent the "five extremes of philosophy," more or less.

Mystic_Snowfang wrote:

Are there going to be good Imperial dragons, I mean they are obviously based on Chinese dragons...

"In contrast to European dragons, which are considered evil, Chinese dragons traditionally symbolize potent and auspicious powers, particularly control over water, rainfall, hurricane, and floods. The dragon is also a symbol of power, strength, and good luck. With this, the Emperor of China usually uses the dragon as a symbol of his imperial power."

The imperial dragons have these alignments, ranging from least powerful to most powerful:

Lawful Evil (underworld dragon)
Chaotic Good (sea dragon)
Lawful Good (sky dragon)
Chaotic Evil (forest dragon)
Neutral (sovereign dragon)

The Imperial dragons represent the "five extremes of philosophy," more or less.

Fair enough. If it were me, I'd just have them all True Neutral, you know "forces of nature" and all that. Or at least APPEARING to be alignments to mortals, but really having more a "blue and orange" morality.

(TV tropes FTW)

JoelF847 wrote:

Thanks for showing off the new dragons! I'm especially interested in the rules for making your own types of imperial dragons. Would it be farily straightforward to adapt these to create new chromatic or metalic dragons also?

I am curious though about the forest dragon's breath weapon. What exactly is it made of that it does piercing damage? Splinters? Thorns? Something else?

I'resonably sure that what Stephen means by making your own Imperial Dragons is the rules for building up dragons that aren't on the young/adult/ancient spread, in the same way you can already build Chromatic, Metallic & Primal dragons using the tables on p90-91 (92-93 in Bestiary 2)

Sigh, upon re-reading, you're probably right. I like my idea better though.

SOLD! I'm really looking forward to the B3 :)

Not to be too munchkin about it but,
will there be sorcerer blood lines based on the new dragons?

I really prefer dragons that don't have spells. Just mean, muscled, breath weaponing machines. I'd like to see more of them in the future.

Not to be too munchkin about it but,

will there be sorcerer blood lines based on the new dragons?

Not anytime soon.

I really prefer dragons that don't have spells. Just mean, muscled, breath weaponing machines. I'd like to see more of them in the future.

You're looking for drakes and linnorms, mostly. You'll be well-served by Bestiary 3 in this regard.

Now THIS IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT! YAY AND GOOD JOB PAIZO FOR PREVIEWING THIS! Question for Mr. Jacobs...will we see a talking three-tailed spirit wolf monster (akin to Moro and her ilk from Princess Mononoke) in this Bestiary or in the Dragon Empires Gazetteer?

Will there be Kitsune...
oh please oh please... let them be playable...

Kitsune are playable but there not in the Beastairy 3, there in the Dragon empire primer and Gazetter.

Question for Mr. Jacobs...will we see a talking three-tailed spirit wolf monster (akin to Moro and her ilk from Princess Mononoke) in this Bestiary or in the Dragon Empires Gazetteer?

Nope.

Good stuff!!!

I like asian stuff's.

Will the Bestiary 3 feature an updated half-dragon template to include the Imperial dragons? (...Please?)

Blech. That poor dragon is starving to death. Feed him some knights, stat

Will the Bestiary 3 feature an updated half-dragon template to include the Imperial dragons? (...Please?)

Nope.

I am struggling with Pathfinder after level 8. How is this a challange for level 10 characters? With 22AC and only 129 HP a Paladin could easily solo kill it in two rounds. With the rest of the party around it would be a breeze to do it in one.

Now I realise that you can change the encounter and add more stuff but by the book I thought a CR10 creature was an average challenge for 4 10th level PC's. Heck even a group of 8th or 9th level PC's would be able to kill this beast quite easily.

Lovely art work though.

How exactly does it get both a bite and gore attack. I do not see two heads.

I imagine the same way that someone with a double-headed weapon can attack with both ends. It just hits you with one and if you're still standing, it changes the angle of the weapon (head,) and hits you with the other.

Personally, I'm imagining one tossing somebody into the air with his antlers and catching them in his mouth. Or biting someone on the arm or leg with its teeth and shaking its head to rake or impale them against its horns. Fun times!

====

You know, I think it's fairly easy to modify the half-dragon template to whatever non-standard dragon bloodline you see fit. Just change the breath weapon damage type and/or area and resistances to suit, maybe give magical flight if the dragon parent could fly without wings. Rubba dub dub, you're clean and done!

I am struggling with Pathfinder after level 8. How is this a challange for level 10 characters? With 22AC and only 129 HP a Paladin could easily solo kill it in two rounds. With the rest of the party around it would be a breeze to do it in one.

Now I realise that you can change the encounter and add more stuff but by the book I thought a CR10 creature was an average challenge for 4 10th level PC's. Heck even a group of 8th or 9th level PC's would be able to kill this beast quite easily.

Lovely art work though.

That's because a CR 10 monster isn't supposed to be challenging for a level 10 party of four. That's not how the CR system works.

An encounter of CR=APL is a speed bump that will drain some party resources. A CR=APL+1 will drain more resources, CR=APL+2 will be a rough fight with PC deaths possible and CR=APL+3 means the party better be on the ball and have Lady Luck on their side, or it's a TPK.

In other words, facing a Forest Dragon...

Level 10 party: Oh, dragon.
Level 9 party: Oh, dragon!
Level 8 party: Oh CRAP, dragon!
Level 7 party: ZOMGBBQSUBMARINE, a dragon! Battle Formation Ttango! Have we got raise dead ready?

That's how CR works, and on the record Paizo is remarkably excellent at assigning CR's to monsters in Pathfinder bestiaries. It's a quantum leap compared to 3.5 (yes dragons and Ogre Mage, I am looking at you all).

Your also forggeting that this guy is not a brute but an ambush predator. He would cast shield before combat begins. using sound imitation he could lure people into traps, other creatures, or just terrain more to his liking, he has woodland stride and pass without trace wich means he can move without hinderance in the forest and it would be hard to track him so hit and run tactics would useful as well. casting obscuring mist would not hinder him ether so combine that with shield spell. Also he has +17 stealth for a large creature, he can fly, climb, and burrow as well. So I think if the DM was using him correctly he could be a pain in the butt. There also one more thing to keep in mind he is a dragon with treasure so give him a magic item he could use like bracers of armor, magical ring, amulet of natural armor, etc. fom his treasure hord.

Nice to see some art by Jim Nelson by the way.

Very much looking forward to Bestiary 3.

Dean

I am really looking forward to the Beastairy 3

New Linnorms(Cairn, Fyord, Tiaga, Tor)
Imperial Dragons(Forest, Sky, Underworld, Sea, Sovereign)
New Drakes(River, ?)
Faerie Dragon
Atomie
Nixie
Catfolk
Alraune
Adlet
Jotund Troll
Hugry Fog
Shadow Mastif
Heucuva
Allip
Giant AntLion
Annis Hag
Yithian
Tanuki
Kappa
Norns
Valkyrie
Bigfoot
Boogyman
Caryatid Column
Water Naga
Clockwork Horrors
Phantom Fungus
Nephilim
Lammasu
Garuda
Yuki-onna
Axebeak
Ascomiod
Dragonne
Graveknight
Goblin Snake
Suli
Demilich

Cacaelia
Ratfolk
Bandersnatch
Dybbuck
Demodands
Daemons(Vulndaemon, Crucidaemon)
Vanara
New Sphinxes(?)
Sleipnir
Vishkanya
Rusalka
Kami(Kodama, Zuishin, Shikigami, Toshigami, Jinushigami)
Behemoths(Tempast, Thalassic, Thunder)
Unfettered Eidolon
New Giants
New Golems
More Fey
and much much more....

why does it have the same concentration check for spell like and sorcerer spells. shouldn't the sorcerer spells be at +2?

interesting that despite some criticism on asian fluff you go full in and complete what you've started.
I'm happy for every well designed monster I get, I just hope you don't do but one culture every year, like old african myths and classes next year.

I hope the next preview includes descriptions, as they are at least as interesting as the picture.

Anyhow, I like this dragon even tough he doesn't look very evil.

Very nice. Looking foreward to the rest of the previews (and really hoping one of these will be catfolk)

You guys do relise that this dragon is only age catergory "young" and at the same CR range as a Red Dragon. Wich of course makes me very curious of the power level of these dragons between each of there own kind and that of other true dragons.