Umbral Reaver |
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Anyone who has played Shadow of the Colossus will be familiar with what I am attempting to achieve here.
This is a work in progress. Comments and such are welcome and encouraged!
A colossus is a creature of greater than colossal size, composed of multiple parts, each with its own hit dice and statistics. The parts interact with each other according to a set of special rules.
On the battle map, colossi are best represented by multiple flat templates; these templates may be considered mobile mini-maps of their own, as characters can climb them and move about them as if they were terrain. The difficulty of doing so depends on the individual colossus.
Generally, a colossus will have nigh-insurmountable damage reduction and resistances, except at certain points on its body that usually have improved or total cover from most approaches.
Spells and effects used against colossi target individual parts; where a spell would have to affect the whole of a being to have any effect, it is useless against a colossus. They are simply too vast. This does mean that teleporting a colossus is treated as teleporting several creatures of size equal to the colossus' components.
If an effect would affect more than one part of a colossus simultaneously, resolve it as if the parts were individual creatures. The effect cannot cause the colossus to violate any of its special rules, such as the requirement for its parts to be in certain proximity to each other.
If you are fighting a Hydrargyric Tripod (see below), you may attempt to bull-rush one of its legs. This may move the leg, but not beyond its maximum distance from the tripod's core.
Generally, a colossus will have a single core that is where its driving force, engine, soul, brain or whatever resides. This is the only part that has a mind (if any), feats and skills. The other parts use the core's feats and skills but may not have access to its special abilities such as spellcasting, spell-like and supernatural abilities. As well, unless specified otherwise only the core has senses, and all other parts act in relation to what the core can perceive. Only the core has an initiative score. All parts act on the same initiative, in the order of the colossus' choosing. If a colossus has more than one core, each core may roll initiative separately and the colossus uses the highest.
If all cores of a colossus are reduced to 0 hit points or less, the entire colossus is treated as having the same number of hit points (i.e. disabled, dead or destroyed). The other parts retain their normal hit points for all other purposes, which may be relevant if a core is brought into positive hit points again.
All parts of a colossus have a climb DC. Use the climbing rules as normal to ascend a colossus. A colossus can attempt to shake a climber from its body by taking a full-round action with the part the climber is on. This provokes a new climb check at the same DC. If the climber fails, he or she takes a -5 penalty on climb checks for one round. If the climber fails by 5 or more, he or she falls from the colossus.
At some points there may be no continuous climbable surface between two parts. Acrobatics checks to jump function as normal for leaping these distances.
A colossus cannot attack climbers directly unless noted otherwise.
Drawing with a touchpad is hard.This vast construct strides across the battlefield on three sturdy, insectile legs. Its single crystalline eye casts a baleful gaze upon the world before it, engulfing its foes in annihilating light.
Parts core, 3 legs
Hydrargyric Tripod Core
N Colossal construct
Init +0; Senses darkvision 240 ft., low-light vision; Perception –5DEFENSE
AC 30, touch 0, flat-footed 30 (+38 natural)
hp 190 (20d10+80)
Fort +6, Ref +4, Will +1
Defensive Abilities DR 30/-; Immune construct traits, electricity, polymorph effects, sonic; Resist acid 30, cold 30, fire 30OFFENSE
Speed -
Ranged 6 light rays +18 (4d6)
Space 30 ft.; Reach 30 ft.
Special Attacks armageddon's eyeSTATISTICS
Str 42, Dex 6, Con —, Int —, Wis 1, Cha 1
Base Atk +20; CMB 44; CMD 52
SQ climbable, colossus movement, colossus traits, weak pointArmageddon's Eye (Su) The tripod rakes its annihilating gaze across the land, destroying all in its path. As a full-round action, the hydrargyric tripod may charge its armageddon's eye. On the following round, it must fire as a standard action if able. It selects two points within 40 ft. of each other and within 240 ft. of the core. All creatures touching a 5 ft. wide line between these points take 40d6 electricity damage and are knocked prone. A creature that makes a successful reflex save (DC 20) takes half damage and avoids becoming prone. Additionally, any creature climbing on the eye itself when it fires is subject to the same effects without a save and is thrown back 60 ft., taking falling damage as normal.
Climbable The sides of the hydrargyric tripod core have a climb DC of 30 and are 20 ft. high. The top has a climb DC of 20 and is 20 ft. wide and 30 ft. long.
Colossus Movement The hydrargyric tripod core moves according to the placement of its legs; if its legs move and remain within 60 ft. of each other, the core is centred equidistant from the highest point of all three legs. If it cannot be placed in this way, then something must have happened to remove at least one leg and instead it falls and cannot move. A colossus is not subject to attacks of opportunity.
Light Rays (Ex) Each light ray is a ranged touch attack with a range of 240 ft. These attacks overcome any damage reduction.
Weak Point Attacks made against the hydrargyric tripod core right behind the eye ignore half its natural armour bonus to AC, all damage reduction and energy resistance (but not immunity). This location has improved cover against ranged attacks and total cover against attacks from points below the core.
Hydrargyric Tripod Leg
N Gargantuan construct
Init -; Senses noneDEFENSE
AC 30, touch 2, flat-footed 30 (+36 natural)
hp 159 (18d10+60)
Fort +6, Ref +4, Will +1
Defensive Abilities DR 30/-; Immune construct traits, electricity, polymorph effects, sonic; Resist acid 30, cold 30, fire 30OFFENSE
Speed 120 ft.
Melee slam +24 (2d6+18 and knockback)
Space 20 ft; Reach 20 ft.
Special Attacks crushSTATISTICS
Str 34, Dex 6, Con —, Int —, Wis 1, Cha 1
Base Atk +18; CMB 36; CMD 44 (cannot be tripped)
SQ all terrain, climbable, colossus movement, colossus traitsAll Terrain (Ex) The hydrargyric tripod leg ignores all rough terrain, creatures and obstacles shorter than itself when moving, provided there is sufficient space for it to stand at the end of its movement.
Climbable The hydrargyric tripod leg has a climb DC of 30 and is 10 ft. wide and 60 ft. tall. The joint connecting it to the core is of variable length, depending on its distance to the core (see colossus movement) and has a climb DC of 35.
Colossus Movement The hydrargyric tripod legs cannot move to any position further than 40 ft. from each other leg. The core moves with them; see the core's colossus movement ability. A colossus is not subject to attacks of opportunity.
Crush (Ex) As a standard action, the hydrargyric tripod leg may make a crush attack (DC 19) at the end of its movement. This works the same as a dragon's crush attack.
Knockback (Ex) If the hydrargyric tripod leg hits a creature with its slam attack, it may make a free bull rush attempt against that creature.
Umbral Reaver |
It's not really like a chase. If you look at the template I linked, it shows that you fight the tripod like it's four monsters at once, but its movement and abilities link it together so it is like a single creature in many ways. The climbing parts are adequately handled by the rules for climbing and acrobatics, treating the creature's body as climbable surfaces.
The tripod's behaviour should be distributed amongst targets to make it the most fun. While it could do six light ray shots then a crush, slam for knockback and another crush on a single target, that's not how giant monsters act in cinematic scenes!
Since I wrote this all stream of consciousness, I'm sure there are holes in it and things I've missed. Point them out if you spot them or have ideas that could help!
Umbral Reaver |
Also!
I think I may work on making a far lower-powered version of the thing. At high levels it's fairly trivial to deal with the threat of a giant stompy laser robot. Fly/teleport above weak point, deliver fighterbomb. Job done.
As is, it's probably around a CR 15, provided the players know it is to be fought with the colossus rules and not as a straight up slugfest.
Umbral Reaver |
I'm having some issues defining the quality colossi have where they are difficult to affect with single target spells.
For the sake of our example, we shall use the hypothetical 'doomsnake' colossus. The doomsnake has two parts, each with 2 hit dice: head and tail.
A disintegrate aimed at either part should work as normal, doing damage to that part.
A fireball is pretty simple, too. Each part makes its own reflex save against it and takes damage separately.
However, should a hideous laughter aimed at the head also affect the tail? What happens if you aim it at the tail?
How about grease on some multi-legged monstrosity? Should it trip one leg, limiting the mobility of the rest of it?
It gets tricky, as it seems this might end up being case-by-case for spells and effects.
Orthos |
I would rule one of two things.
1. The "controlling" or "head" portion of the colossus is the only part with the mind; the rest are mindless, and therefore immune to mind-affecting spells. This leads to "WTF why didn't my spell work?" "You have to aim at its head, genius!" and assumes the magic dissipates before traversing the immense distance between one body part and another.
2. The parts are connected and any mind-affecting effect that strikes one successfully affects all, transferring the resulting effect of the spell to all parts. Perhaps include a mechanic where only the "head" can make will saves, and gets to save against any mind-affecting or similar effect that strikes the entire body? Or give it a bonus to saves if it strikes the wrong target, due to the mistargeting?
Either way I'll be borrowing this system. Nice work =D
Umbral Reaver |
I think that's reasonably fair. It does make colossi quite susceptible to mind-affecting affects. I would say that in my doomsnake example, a sleep spell would only have to encompass the head, but the creature is treated as 4hd for the purpose of determining whether it is affected, as the entire creature has 4 hit dice.
Orthos |
I personally like the second version, with the caveat that some spells may only affect the "head", leaving the rest of the body capable of attacking - perhaps at a penalty, perhaps not. I agree that it'd probably require a good amount of adjudication by the GM, and unless we sat down and statted out a colossus's response to every mind-affecting spell and will save effect - which may well be different for each colossus! In addition to being ridiculously time consuming - it might just be better to leave it to the GM's judgement call.
Umbral Reaver |
I was working on a 'great hydra' using these rules but gave up on working out all the stats. It's late and I'm tired. Have the great hydra's special rules! Maybe someone will stat up the rest of it.
This one may or may not have the climbable property, but it does make fighting a hydra much more interesting!
Parts 5 heads, body
Great Hydra Head (core)
Colossus Movement The heads always move after the body and as a move action may move to any unobstructed position within 20 ft. of the body. If for any reason a non-severed head is not within 20 ft. of the body, it must be placed within that distance.Great Hydra Traits If a head is reduced to 0 hit points, it is severed and dies. 2d4 rounds after a head is severed, if the body has 0 or more hit points, a new head regenerates in its place with half its total hit points. In each round that the body has suffered fire damage, the time required for missing heads to regenerate is increased by 1 round.
Great Hydra Body
Colossus Movement The body always moves before the heads and moves normally as a creature of its size. If the body would move into any space where all its heads could not be moved within 20 ft. of it, it is instead moved to the nearest valid space.Regeneration As long as at least one head is alive, the body has regeneration equal to ten times the current number of heads. No type of damage halts its regeneration.
Oh wait, this totally has to be climbable. Those heads could hang around 15 ft. in the air and make bite attacks downward. Climb that sucker and chop off its heads!
If someone knocks out one head, the head movement rule means it gets dragged along anyway. It'd be fair to cast sleep spells and such on individual heads. Maybe even dominate monster one of them and make it fight the others!
Orthos |
Maybe even dominate monster one of them and make it fight the others!
"Now I showing you why Zathras is greatest diplomat! You, head! Be attending me!"
*dominate*
"You are being understanding me, yes? Go!"
*head attacks other head*
*CHOMP*
"BAH! There going my special head. Oh well, is for swords now."
Umbral Reaver |
More ideas! Ahahahaha!
Some abilities for fun (not complete blocks):
This seething mass of corpses takes a horrifying, vaguely humanoid form. As it raises its misshapen arms to swing, you can just catch a glimpse of a sickly red light within its hideous torso.Parts body, 2 arms
Fleshwarden Body (core)
CE Gargantuan undead
Devour Flesh (Ex) When a fleshwarden's swallow whole reduces a living creature below 0 hit points or it eats a corpse, that creature must make a fortitude save or be consumed into the body. Dead creatures automatically fail the save. Consuming a creature heals the body a number of hit points equal to the consumed creature's normal maximum hit points. If the body is destroyed, any consumed corpses may be recovered and raised normally.
Weak Point Deep within the fleshwarden sits its animating force, a sickening fusion of all the hearts that belonged to the bodies now making up its form. The weak point of the fleshwarden can only be affected once one or more of its arms have been destroyed. Attacks against the weak point ignore half the fleshwarden's natural armour bonus to AC, its damage reduction and its resistances (but not immunities).
Fleshwarden Arm
CE Large undead
Absorb Flesh (Su) When a fleshwarden arm reduces a living creature below 0 hit points with its slam attack or it touches a corpse, that creature must make a fortitude save or be consumed into the arm. Dead creatures automatically fail the save. Consuming a creature heals the arm a number of hit points equal to the consumed creature's normal maximum hit points. If the arm is destroyed, any consumed corpses may be recovered and raised normally.
I can imagine it now. Dozens of hands reaching out from the unholy mass, grasping at those trying to climb its towering form. A poor warrior struggles against them, inexorably drawn into the mass. Soon, his companions see their own friend's limbs clawing at them from the fleshwarden's terrible body.
It could do lots of horrible things, such as disgorging zombies upon taking sufficient damage! Or being able to spawn zombies by sacrificing an amount of hit points equal to that of the zombie, then consuming flesh to restore itself. A growing tide of undeath with the fleshwarden at its centre!
>:D
Umbral Reaver |
Feel free to stat up the great hydra or the fleshwarden if you like! I might do it later, when I'm less sleepy.
Here's some more.
A towering infernal creature strides forth, wickedly spiked chains hanging from its many limbs. Its flesh is plated in countless layers of rusted metal, hellish light radiating through jagged cracks in its mask.Parts body, 4 arms
Siege Kyton Body (core)
LE Colossal outsider (evil, kyton)
Climbable The siege kyton's legs are 10 ft. wide and 60 ft. tall, with a climb DC of 25. Its torso is 40 ft. wide and 40 ft. tall, with a climb DC of 20. Its head is 10 ft. wide and tall, with a climb DC of 20.
Feed on Pain (Su) Whenever a living creature loses hit points within 120 ft. of the siege kyton, the siege kyton heals half that number of hit points divided evenly between its remaining injured parts, rounded down.
Spiked Body Each time a creature makes a climb check to climb the siege kyton, that creature must take a -5 penalty on its check or suffer 3d6 slashing damage from the many razor-sharp spikes covering the kyton's body and armour and 1d6 bleed damage each round thereafter.
Weak Point By clinging to the ragged armour on the siege kyton's face, you can see countless multitudes of bloodshot eyes glaring back at you through the cracks. The siege kyton's weak is on its face and has improved cover against attacks and effects originating from further than five feet away. Attacks against the weak point ignore half the siege kyton's natural armour bonus to AC, its damage reduction and its resistances (but not immunities).
Siege Kyton Arm
LE Gargantuan outsider (evil, kyton)
Climbable The siege kyton's chains drag on the ground and span up to 100 ft. between the ground and its arms, with a climb DC of 25. Its arms are 10 ft. wide and 60 ft. long, with a climb DC of 25.
Dragging Chains (Ex) When the siege kyton's arm moves over a creature, that creature must make a reflex save or take 5d6 slashing damage. A creature damaged by dragging chains takes 1d6 bleed damage each round thereafter.
Flexible The siege kyton's arms may make attacks against creatures climbing on its body or other arms. An arm may not make attacks against creatures climbing on itself.
Spiked Body (see above)
Umbral Reaver |
I can't stop myself!
A beautiful, nymph-like woman floats forward in a serene pose. As she nears, it becomes clear that she is not flying but is supported by a thick mass of tendrils hanging from a massive plantlike structure. The entire thing moves forward on several short, spiky wooden legs.Parts praetor, trunk, 4 legs
Praetor (core)
CN Medium fey
Spells A praetor casts spells as an 11th level druid, but cannot swap out prepared spells to cast summon spells.
Withdraw (Ex) As a move action, the praetor may move into or out of the trunk if adjacent to it. As long as the trunk has half its total hit points or more, this grants the praetor total cover. While within the trunk, the praetor only has line of sight and line of effect to herself and the trunk.
Trunk
CN Colossal plant
Invisibility (Su) The trunk may turn itself and its legs invisible (CL 11th) at will, as a standard action. This does not affect the praetor, although she is hidden while inside the trunk.
Leg
CN Large plant
Umbral Reaver |
The idea for the praetor of dreams is that she is a dryad gone mad, so obsessed with her connection to her tree that through some eldritch process she has joined with it in body and mind, becoming something powerful and strange.
Part dryad, part treant. Maybe those praetors that lose themselves along this path are destined to become Sards?
Umbral Reaver |
What should be on the list? We can broaden into other creature types.
Let's see...
Triumvirate Archon - Styled after Marvel's Tri-Sentinel.
Worldshaker Giant - Your classic slumbering piece of landscape.
Titanic Dragon - Fight its minions on its back while it soars! Destroy the wings to ground it, then go for the heart!
Landback Leviathan - The island that moves.
Umbral Reaver |
Okay, let's see if we can work this thing out.
Spells and Areas vs Colossi
If a spell or ability would affect all of a colossus at once as if it were a single creature, i.e. hideous laughter or trap the soul, the spell's target or area must include the core but does not have to encompass other parts. The core gains a +2 bonus to any saves per additional part that will be subject to the effect.
If the core is affected (by being hit, failing its save, etc) in this way, all parts of the colossus are affected identically.
A colossus is hit with the confusion spell and fails its save. The core rolls once on the confusion table and all other parts use the same result.
Area spells that inflict conditions or damage are usually simple to resolve. Each part within the area makes its save and is affected separately, taking damage to its own hit points and suffering conditions individually. One part of a colossus may be stunned or fall prone while the rest is still active or upright, due to the vast scale of its form.
Multi-Core Colossi
If the colossus has more than one core, the effect must be able to affect all cores at once as if they were separate creatures in order to have any effect on the other parts, and they make separate saves; otherwise, only the cores included in the effect are affected.
A great hydra's head fails its save against dominate monster. The caster gains control over that head alone and can command it within the limits of its ability. It cannot violate its colossus rules but can attack the other heads or the body.
The caster then casts mass charm monster against the great hydra. If all of the heads fail their saves, the entire colossus is charmed, including its body. Otherwise, only the heads that fail their saves fall under the charm.
As there are a vast number of spells and abilities, it may be up to GM discretion whether a colossus part can be affected individually or if it must affect it per the above rules.
Generally, mind-affecting spells all come under the above rules, as regardless of how many parts it has, a colossus usually only has one mind. As well, many spells only make sense if they affect the whole colossus, such as teleport, polymorph effects and trap the soul.
If a colossus is polymorphed, base the new statistics on the highest mental abilities amongst its cores and the highest physical abilities amongst its parts. Its parts 'go away' until it returns to its original form.
Talynonyx |
I made something like this for a game that went into Numeria for a short time, based on a WH40k Titan. I made it pretty big and the party flew around it, some landed on it and attacked weak points to slow it down. I made it perfectly capable of one-shotting any one of them with it's primary cannon, along with death by a thousand cuts with it's multitude of cannons, but allowed them to eliminate cannon batteries by blowing up it's ammo stores, to even annihilate it's massive cannon with the right spell. It was a blast to run, but a little incoherent at times. But I think your stuff looks great.
Umbral Reaver |
I think my next colossus will be another construct, for low-levels to fight:
The Walking Fort! CR 9-10, including archers?
Body (core), two arms.
It's your average smashy golem (probably made of sturdy wood at this level), with a pair of turrets on its shoulders. A couple of low-CR archers sit in the turrets, shooting people trying to climb the golem to attack its weak point on its top as well as throwing things like flasks of various things.
Umbral Reaver |
Other thoughts:
The natural impulse of a player is likely to want to use CMB against such creatures rather than climb and acrobatics. Should that be allowed? For now, my thought is no. CMB is for imposing conditions and maneuvers on enemies, not clambering up their vast bodies.
A dedicated climber is likely to have a much higher climb than CMB. However, someone that hasn't put max ranks into climb is likely to have a higher CMB.
Maybe a feat or trait?
Combat Climber
Benefit: You may use your CMB score in place of your climb and acrobatics skill totals when climbing a colossus. Additionally, you gain a +2 bonus to maneuvers against creatures larger than you.
Fnipernackle |
I'd like to codify the rules more clearly and solidly before we start distributing.
(That, and I'm kinda holding out for the chance that a publisher wants to pounce on this)
;)
like i told evil lincoln in another thread, of course this needs to be very well thought out and balanced becore we type it up in anythibg. but once that is id like to include it.
as for a publisher picking this up, i dont see that happening. not that its not good enough or that it shouldnt, but usually publishers come up with similar or dofferent ways to produce something rather than take from a poster due to them having to pay royalties. the only thi.g ive seen close to this was when i typed up and distributed the sigils and talents rules. pfsrd wanted to post it online, but never got back to me on that. then shortly afterwards, super genius pit out sorcerer arcana similar to wizards arcana rather than picked up on this idea. so i wouldnt hold ur breath on it, but u never know. ive been wrong before. but if no one picks this up itd at least be nice to get this into the new pdf which is structured similar to the sigils pdf.
Fnipernackle |
I'd like to codify the rules more clearly and solidly before we start distributing.
(That, and I'm kinda holding out for the chance that a publisher wants to pounce on this)
;)
like i told evil lincoln in another thread, of course this needs to be very well thought out and balanced becore we type it up in anythibg. but once that is id like to include it.
as for a publisher picking this up, i dont see that happening. not that its not good enough or that it shouldnt, but usually publishers come up with similar or dofferent ways to produce something rather than take from a poster due to them having to pay royalties. the only thi.g ive seen close to this was when i typed up and distributed the sigils and talents rules. pfsrd wanted to post it online, but never got back to me on that. then shortly afterwards, super genius pit out sorcerer arcana similar to wizards arcana rather than picked up on this idea. so i wouldnt hold ur breath on it, but u never know. ive been wrong before. but if no one picks this up itd at least be nice to get this into the new pdf which is structured similar to the sigils pdf.
Quanerious |
Look into Dragon Magazine #336 for some ideas. They cover the concept of building a main monster and then breaking it down part by part for things like climbing, special attacks, and the like.
I've run an encounter like this before. I've noticed that if I make the monster have any sort of armor that the PCs hit they just attack the legs, arms, wings or whatever slows it down and then will kill the beast as it is prone. The point of the SotC game was to find the weak spot on each monster that was fought. Define a battlefield based on a particular "weak spot" and the encounter around trying to get to that weak spot.
Also, think about movie like "Cloverfield" and their type. The monster is rarely able to be directly confronted until the heroes find the special thing to kill the monster. It could be a special sword, spell, locations (my favorite), or a number of other ways to drop the resistance of the monster.