RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
Split from previous thread.
First level rebuilds aren't enough. People that are still very new to Pathfinder and PFS can have characters at any level. Telling them, "Sorry, you need to start all over if you want to make changes to your character" seems like a really bad model.
Also, the release of new content should never discourage people from playing. I had a character that I skipped playing for almost a month because Ultimate Combat was coming out in the near future.
Split this because I wanted to hit two points.
I understand that 3 adventures in might still be counted as 'shiny and new' but in real life we make sub optimal choices. (I have 5 years of college I'm not using in my current job) Sometimes compensating can be an oportunity in and of itself. (Frex, Rey has sleep instead of colour spray because I forgot about the 1 round casting time. As a result in addition to him being a "I don't have to roll to hit" character, he became a "I'm going to stand wayyyyyy over here and throw spells" kind of character.) Plus, if you're 2nd or 3rd level, your character is still 'young' enough to adapt.
Did the release discourage you from playng or from playing a certain concept? Big difference. Again, I have a concept for a character that screams 'Aasimar!' in big golden skinned letters. Not being able to put Tiyet to paper is annoying, but I'm still playing Rey (and Mayim eventually, and 'blob of protoplasm with a higher level Iconic credit applied to it').
Also rebuilding at higher levels makes 'gaming the system' even worse. Right now, Mayim is an unplayed (and unequipped) character at 2nd level. After saturday, she should be 3rd (GM credits). She doesn't have ranks in acrobatics or fly (2nd level versitile performance) but does have bluff and sense motive at max. If I were to 'rebuild her' at 6th level, there's no incentive to keep those points in bluff and sense motive, since I will be able to grab another versitile peformance (sing) and make those moot.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
@Saint Caleth
Oh I agree, maybe I wasn't clear. If I never get to play Mayim (because she's meant to be comprable in level to my niece and nephew's characters) until 6th level, she could appear, fully formed with no ranks in bluff and sense motive because she picked up that second versitile performance. I likely wouldn't do that (I'd feel dirty inside) but it would be a 'reward' for never having the chance to make her grow in an organic enviroment and adapt there.
But if I played her from levels 1-6 and then was allowed to rebuild, what incentive would there be to not optimize and lose those points, even though maxing those skills led to the level/rank/prestige/whatever that allowed her to be rebuilt? That's just an example of my concerns.
Not to mention classes that have limited rebuilding keyed in (fighter's feats, bard and sorcerer spells, etc) see that worth diminished. Rey's going to trade out sleep for another spell (most likely mage armor) at 4th level, as part of his growth. If anyone can rebuild by spending X, it weakens the class.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
|
Also rebuilding at higher levels makes 'gaming the system' even worse. Right now, Mayim is an unplayed (and unequipped) character at 2nd level. After saturday, she should be 3rd (GM credits). She doesn't have ranks in acrobatics or fly (2nd level versitile performance) but does have bluff and sense motive at max. If I were to 'rebuild her' at 6th level, there's no incentive to keep those points in bluff and sense motive, since I will be able to grab another versitile peformance (sing) and make those moot.
Just to note, if you have a character based entirely on GM credit that's never been played, it doesn't need to have anything written down besides a name, number, and faction until you actually play it.
I suppose you could "game the system" and not play her until level 6... but then you're just missing out on 18 games... :S
Here's the appropriate source.
|
|
I am very firmly in the no rebuild camp. I see the value of 1st level rebuilds in whole or in part but beyond that you are absolutely right about the value of retraining features.
DM credit then has the value of allowing you to put off deciding on a path for some time which is completely fine by me.
To actually answer your question though. Releases definitely might discourage me from playing a specific character. I have two characters with 3XP who have stayed that way since the ARG was upcoming and are going to stay that way until they have a chance to rebuild with the new guide.
I am also starting to think about Paths of Prestige already. Until I get more information about what is on it I am going to be playing my Cleric/future Holy Vindicator and my Inquisitor who is unlikely to take a PrC a lot more. I am pretty obsessive about planning out advancement though, and before I start a character I make sure that I can have it work with the play style I want across a wide range of levels.
|
I think First Steps gives you enough different types of adventure to get a handle on what you think might not work with your character. Maybe we should ask the new player after he's played 3 mods if there was anything he'd like to change, just to apply it fairly.
As a side note, I haven't really ever seen or played a character that outright didn't work, rhough I've heard a lot of people claim their's didn't.
|
I'm worried about someone new to the game, making a character in 20 minutes, dashing through first steps in a day and technically being level 2 and then stuck with a character that doesn't really work.
This might sound harsh, but to me then maybe he needed to have cared about his character more.
If it was a new player, why didn't you give him a pregen? He could have then applied all the credit to a single NEW character he could have taken the time to build after the game day.
If this had been my table, I would have stopped at the end of Part 2 and asked the table if anyone is happy with their characters before we go into part 3. If something isn't working then now is the time to change it. Heck, I wouldn'teven have a problem allowing them to change something at the end of First steps part 3 before they play a single adventure as level 2.
|
|
I'd entertain the idea of very limited changes: X PP to swap a Trait, Y PP to swap a Feat, Z to swap a spell.
Or only allow players to purchase Trait changes if you want to avoid stepping on the toes of classes that can swap Feats or Spells.
The mechanical benefit of a Trait is pretty negligible, especially the higher your level.
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm worried about someone new to the game, making a character in 20 minutes, dashing through first steps in a day and technically being level 2 and then stuck with a character that doesn't really work.
I could be wrong (as I'm not privy to the super-secret VO boards), but my understanding is that the intent of the "first-level" rebuilds was actually the exact situation you're talking about - i.e., if you've got 3XP or less (and therefore are technically level 2, but have only ever played at level 1), then you can rebuild.
|
|
I think First Steps gives you enough different types of adventure to get a handle on what you think might not work with your character.
It does. I absolutely loved the flavor both as for a raw recruit as well as "this is the sort of thing you'll be doing." It really convinced me in a hurry that my one shot paladin with 1 skill point might not be the best fit.
I'm just worried about not giving someone enough time to sort through all the disparate books for character creation, particularly if PFS is their introduction to pathfinder.
Perhaps before they start their second level game? (then they're still technically first level)
|
|
I'm worried about someone new to the game, making a character in 20 minutes, dashing through first steps in a day and technically being level 2 and then stuck with a character that doesn't really work.I could be wrong (as I'm not privy to the super-secret VO boards), but my understanding is that the intent of the "first-level" rebuilds was actually the exact situation you're talking about - i.e., if you've got 3XP or less (and therefore are technically level 2, but have only ever played at level 1), then you can rebuild.
Exceeeelent
|
A new player isn't necessarily going to know what does and does not work or what they do and do not like for their character after two adventures.
I am also starting to think about Paths of Prestige already. Until I get more information about what is on it I am going to be playing my Cleric/future Holy Vindicator and my Inquisitor who is unlikely to take a PrC a lot more. I am pretty obsessive about planning out advancement though, and before I start a character I make sure that I can have it work with the play style I want across a wide range of levels.
This is precisely what I was talking about. What if obsessively planning out characters isn't fun for some people? What if they want to play and make choices without having to worry that they are irrevocably bad/wrong?
ExceeeelentI'm worried about someone new to the game, making a character in 20 minutes, dashing through first steps in a day and technically being level 2 and then stuck with a character that doesn't really work.I could be wrong (as I'm not privy to the super-secret VO boards), but my understanding is that the intent of the "first-level" rebuilds was actually the exact situation you're talking about - i.e., if you've got 3XP or less (and therefore are technically level 2, but have only ever played at level 1), then you can rebuild.
Yep, this is my interpretation of the rule when it goes into effect. Until you actually play that first scenario as a level two character, you can rebuild. Once you have that 4th XP, or 3 1/2 on slow path, you can no longer rebuild. And do not forget, you can choose slow path at 1st level, though you cannot play First Steps with that character. So you could go through six scenarios at 1/2 XP each and still rebuild.
|
|
A new player isn't necessarily going to know what does and does not work or what they do and do not like for their character after two adventures.
So maybe start a new character a few levels down the road with your first? I don't think anyone is expecting your first character ever to be perfectly optimized. There are growing pains in everything, and I think higher level rebuilds are akin to skipping part of the journey. Do note I would also be in favor of doing it via prestige with different costs based on what you want to change if it is ever allowed in the future.
What if they want to play and make choices without having to worry that they are irrevocably bad/wrong?
Then play a class or character that allows for that. Maybe an evolutionist summoner? Or a Samurai (who can change orders).
|
|
Then play a class or character that allows for that. Maybe an evolutionist summoner? Or a Samurai (who can change orders).
Along those lines, what if a player started their Samurai as a mounted combat guy only to figure out 3 or 4 levels in that there's little room in PFS for mounted combat.
Being stuck in this sort of situation can be pretty frustrating for a new player.
|
|
Along those lines, what if a player started their Samurai as a mounted combat guy only to figure out 3 or 4 levels in that there's little room in PFS for mounted combat.
Being stuck in this sort of situation can be pretty frustrating for a new player.
Well then he decides whether he wants to continue playing the Samurai or something else. If he wanted to play a samurai that does mounted combat, would that same player want to play a non-mounted combat samurai? Maybe what he wanted WAS to play a mounted character (cavalier, paladin, what have you).
Related question, would you allow him to change his race (with these fictional rebuild rules) so he could be a small samurai (allowing for medium mount). If so, would he be allowed to change his horse, who he has equipped with barding by level 5. What about his gear, which is now small and not medium sized?
I just think Lvl 2+ rebuilds will bring out a LOT of extra questions.
|
|
I just think Lvl 2+ rebuilds will bring out a LOT of extra questions.
Some I thought of from top of my head:
1. Could a Gunslinger swap out gunsmithing?2. Could I swap out Point Blank Shot after I get Precise Shot?
3. I went with an archer build. Took PBS, Precise and Weapon Focus (light crossbow). Few levels in I notice crossbows suck. I swap out for Weapon Focus (Longbow). What happens to my +1 light crossbow now?
4. Similar to above. Took Heavy Armor prof, bought full plate, didnt like the ACP, then swapped it back out. Wasted full plate?
5. I'm a ranger with favored enemy (goblin). I am about to play in a scenario called "To scale the dragon". Before the scenario, I tell my GM "Hey by the way, I decided to pay 4PA to swap out my favored enemy from goblin to dragon. Just FYI."
6. Same as #5 but with spells. If you are a spontaneous caster and you could swap out spells learned, might as well play a wizard/cleric. You can then metagame the scenario. (aware that clerics can do that now, like preparing remove paralysis if they are going into a creepy tomb. But that's part of the class)
7. People will metagame the feats/traits that are better at earlier levels. Wizards will take Toughness at level 1, swap out at level 7 for a metamagic feat.
By the way, I think #7 is really the crux of the problem. It will introduce another level of power gaming and theorycrafting to the game that I really do not want to see.
|
|
Optimizer are already going to optimize the game to absurdity. Hurting legitimate players for fear of that isn't helping anyone, except now the legitmate player is screwed and the optimizer still gets to have his fun.
If you make the cost of retraining high enough, doing so to "game the system" will not be worthwhile.
For example, the cost of retraining factions is something like 1/3 your total fame. So at level 7 you're looking at something like 14 prestige. If it cost 14 prestige to rebuild (nearly the cost of a raise dead), no minmaxer worth his salt would bother.
|
|
And again, I don't see why you can't just start another character. I have a Paladin, and when I saw the ARG I really want to make a Stonelord Paladin now. But I don't want to rebuild my current one. I am gladly happy to have two paladins. Is that really such a big deal? Two of the same class... how dare I!
|
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
|
A new player isn't necessarily going to know what does and does not work or what they do and do not like for their character after two adventures.So maybe start a new character a few levels down the road with your first? I don't think anyone is expecting your first character ever to be perfectly optimized.
I'd be very surprised if anybody new to Pathfinder didn't have some second thoughts about their first PFS character. In my case (with several decades of RPG experience, though hardly any with 3.0/3.5/PF) there are several things I'd do differently if I rebuilt that character today. My wife's experience is similar - a character class that could work well in a tabletop game isn't necessarily a good choice for PFS.
We did what Crobledo suggests - we built our second PFS characters when character-1 was around third level. We also built them with the expectation that we'd often be adventuring together, so we could pick things (like teamwork feats) that a solo player might not choose.
|
|
For you, and plenty of others, just starting over is a simple and viable solution but for others it's not. Telling players that if they want to achieve what they want for a character that they need to abandon several hours of time investment, can be a major turn off.
The whole system works great for those of us that have been doing this Organized Campaign thing for a while but for those that are new to PFS or OP as a whole, the rigid system we have in place can be a major barrier.
Am I suggesting that we abandon all the rules we've come to appreciate? No.
But making things a little more forgiving could mean a lot for growing the hobby and that should ultimately be the goal.
Over the past ten years or so I've introduced a couple dozen friends to Organized Campaigns (LG and PFS now) and only a few actually took to the idea and ran with it. Obviously PFS isn't for everyone, but the biggest deterrent has always been the unforgiving character building rules.
|
|
Over the past ten years or so I've introduced a couple dozen friends to Organized Campaigns (LG and PFS now) and only a few actually took to the idea and ran with it. Obviously PFS isn't for everyone, but the biggest deterrent has always been the unforgiving character building rules.
I will have to disagree that build rules are the biggest deterrent, but thats a different discussion for another time. "Has always been" is a strong phrase to toss around.
Are you a video game player? This happens in video games all the time. MMOs in particular, others in general (Mass effect comes to mind). Choosing characters and making decisions can be hard. And yes there is a time commitment involved. But for ME (I mean myself, not mass effect), that commitment and effort is part of the reward.
Feral, I think rebuild rules have a place. I will suggest that we do this in baby steps. I think it's too big a change to be taken lightly. I proposed 7 possible problems above, and that was just in 5 minutes of thinking about it. We are getting level 1 rebuilds in a month and a half. Why don't we wait for a bit, see how that goes, let the dust settle and then go towards something else. I dont have advanced knowledge of what will happen when level 1 rebuilds go live. I think anyone saying they can predict exactly what is being naive. Let's just wait and see.
It will be way better than making the hasty solution to open the floodgates. Opening floodgates often leads to not being able to hold the waters back anymore.
|
|
I saw your problems as great opportunities.
The human cavalier is dissatisfied with his level 7 character? Does he want to try to salvage the mounted combatant thing or can he have fun fighting on-foot? That's something he gets to decide, but what's important here is that he has an option. He's not forced to start over and abandon his ~64 hour time investment.
It's funny that you mention video games because all modern MMOs and even Mass Effect offers easily accessible rebuild options. Mass Effect is only upwards of 40 hours of gameplay. Shouldn't Commander Sheppard just start over when he/she finds out Incinerate isn't his/her style?
Choices should be important but players should never feel forced to start over to correct their mistakes.
Level 1 rebuilds is a good start but it's only just a start. People are unlikely to really know what they do or do not like at level 1.
I will have to disagree that build rules are the biggest deterrent, but thats a different discussion for another time. "Has always been" is a strong phrase to toss around.
That was in reference to my experience trying to get people into organized play. For what it's worth the second biggest deterrent has been the way loot is handled, "What do you mean I can't have the magic sword? Why do I have to sell it and buy it back?"
Having seen the horrors of loot distribution in Living City, I consider that one a necessary evil.
|
Choices should be important but players should never feel forced to start over to correct their mistakes.
PFS is a bit of a meat grinder, but the time investment that goes into getting that character to a point where he can survive the meat grinder should really be considered. At its core, one of the most important things a PFS player can do is have fun. Some people's sense of "PFS isn't hardcore enough for some people" are basically saying people should deal with poor choices early on or start all over again. Guess what, if I didn't die of my own stupidity then I fell really really ripped off if someone says "remake your character."
I agree that it seems a bit unfair to those who played casters through their crappy levels to let someone have a sword and board until they'd rather be a caster of equal level, but frankly it seems that if you have to choose one or the other (and you don't) PFS as a whole would be better served by choosing the option that's more "fun" for the people playing said characters, not the option that's more "fair" to people who are happy with choices they make.
Then again my joke character turned out to be viable so what do I know.
|
|
Hey Michael, can you do me a favor and answer the question in the thread you just locked beyond "listen to the VCs" since, you know, the VCs even saw some ambiguity in the FAQ statement and were hoping for clarification?
e. Then delete this post and go to Black Raven or something it's way too nice outside.
|
|
Hey Michael, can you do me a favor and answer the question in the thread you just locked beyond "listen to the VCs" since, you know, the VCs even saw some ambiguity in the FAQ statement and were hoping for clarification?
e. Then delete this post and go to Black Raven or something it's way too nice outside.
I was actually at Black Raven earlier with a VC and VL but thanks.
And, if you are at Paizo Con, I will be happy to discuss further.
|
|
I can't be at Paizo Con because I happen to be getting married that weekend. I'd really just love a little clarification without me needing to postpone my wedding and spending money I don't have to find out whether or not vestigial non-mechanic character visuals are okay in any way shape or form!
Black Raven 4 lyfe~
e. Do you take bribes in beer form? We can swap stories about being FAQ guys at game companies and dealing with idiots like me ohwaitnevermind
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I can't be at Paizo Con because I happen to be getting married that weekend. I'd really just love a little clarification without me needing to postpone my wedding and spending money I don't have to find out whether or not vestigial non-mechanic character visuals are okay in any way shape or form!
Black Raven 4 lyfe~
No, your character can not have wings, whether they work or not, unless you are an Aasimar who takes the Angel Wings feat. No, you can not be a half-whatever half-orc.
*EDIT*: And, I just checked with half the staff here on the first floor. Half-orcs are made up of humans and orcs, not other races and orcs.
|
|
That wasn't the question at all, that was a random example someone tossed out, and the half-orc thing wasn't even in question. The question was "Can a character have non-mechanical visible traits granted by virtue of class features or other mechanics solely for the sake of flavor?"
e.g. a Dark Tapestry Oracle having traces of otherworldly corruption in a non-mechanical flavour way.
|
|
The question was "Can a character have non-mechanical visible traits granted by virtue of class features or other mechanics solely for the sake of flavor?"
e.g. a Dark Tapestry Oracle having traces of otherworldly corruption in a non-mechanical flavour way.
I believe "No, your character can not have wings, whether they work or not, unless you are an Aasimar who takes the Angel Wings feat." covered that question already.
Please don't make Mike lock more threads.
|
|
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
The question was "Can a character have non-mechanical visible traits granted by virtue of class features or other mechanics solely for the sake of flavor?"
.
Since I wasn't clear enough or answered the wrong question, let me just reply to this question with a simple No.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
We will be adding first level retraining to Guide 4.2. This option will not expand past first level for the foreseeable future.
Thank you for both. Now I just need more newbies to feed to, er run through, First Steps and make sure to have downtime afterwards to say "Is there anything you want to change?"
Also, it just hit me this helps Beginner's Box characters. "Ok, you've survived First steps, and bought the full rulebook, now let me tell you about traits..."
Since I wasn't clear enough or answered the wrong question, let me just reply to this question with a simple No.The question was "Can a character have non-mechanical visible traits granted by virtue of class features or other mechanics solely for the sake of flavor?"
.
Thanks Mike.
Skinning is one thing but I really hate feeling like I am playing Starwars with all the freaks.
I for one like my Humans to look, well, like humans.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Back to OP's topic.
Certain decisions for how organised play operates will influence what kind of people we have attracted to organised play.
If we have a system that enforces knowing exactly what progression your character is taking, with no room for mistakes, we are pushing players on the path to system mastery.
If we have a system that doesn't forgive character building mistakes for players who have dedicated 4 days gaming (4 sessions to lvl2.33), but forgives those who have spent 3 days gaming (3 sessions to lvl2) then we are considerably increasing the 'scare off newbies' factor of the society.
Why is it that if you give more time to playing in PFS, you have options to tweak your character for new products from Paizo removed?
It seems like you're sacrificing a lot to limit any potential shenanigans of exploitative players. We kind of need to draw up a Pros and Cons list here.
Of course, we all know the exploits that *could* happen because we're still here, because we followed the path of system mastery.
Seems like we're building just another neon sign signalling to gamers to start home games where retraining is available, and avoid PFS.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
Skinning is one thing but I really hate feeling like I am playing Starwars with all the freaks.
I for one like my Humans to look, well, like humans.
No offense intended. I just found it funny (with the recent furries thread elsewhere) your comment vs your nickname. :-)
No offense intended. I just found it funny (with the recent furries thread elsewhere) your comment vs your nickname. :-)Skinning is one thing but I really hate feeling like I am playing Starwars with all the freaks.
I for one like my Humans to look, well, like humans.
None taken.
I get that a lot. For the curious my family is in the fur business, Coats, farms, the whole 9 yards.
So thats where the name comes from :)
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm against retraining past first level for a number of reasons:
1) Potential abuse issues.
2) Additional complexity (If you retrain a feat, do you get to retrain the gear related to that feat?)
3. Additional paperwork - tracking all the retraining. There's enough documentation that comes with an organized play environment already.
4. Frankly, I just don't like the feel of it. This is a campaign, not a series of one-shot adventures. Your decisions about your character should matter as they're part of the history of the character.
|
|
I'm against retraining past first level for a number of reasons:
1) Potential abuse issues.
2) Additional complexity (If you retrain a feat, do you get to retrain the gear related to that feat?)
3. Additional paperwork - tracking all the retraining. There's enough documentation that comes with an organized play environment already.
4. Frankly, I just don't like the feel of it. This is a campaign, not a series of one-shot adventures. Your decisions about your character should matter as they're part of the history of the character.
Jonathan, I have to agree with you, I fully support retraining through 1st level, but once you've hit 2nd you should have somewhat of a less fuzzy idea of the direction for your character. There are lots of things I wish I could have changed on my fighter, but I learned to work with her the way she kind of grew up.
|
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
|
Jonathan, I have to agree with you, I fully support retraining through 1st level, but once you've hit 2nd you should have somewhat of a less fuzzy idea of the direction for your character. There are lots of things I wish I could have changed on my fighter, but I learned to work with her the way she kind of grew up.I'm against retraining past first level for a number of reasons:
1) Potential abuse issues.
2) Additional complexity (If you retrain a feat, do you get to retrain the gear related to that feat?)
3. Additional paperwork - tracking all the retraining. There's enough documentation that comes with an organized play environment already.
4. Frankly, I just don't like the feel of it. This is a campaign, not a series of one-shot adventures. Your decisions about your character should matter as they're part of the history of the character.
Add me to the batch of people who think this way.
And to echo the bunny woman, I have a retired character who played with core rules, only. He did fine, and was a lot of fun, even though I really wanted to implement some of the sub-domains and such. Just means I have to create a new character to explore all those options, which is the point of all this, isn't it?
|
|
Jonathan, I have to agree with you, I fully support retraining through 1st level, but once you've hit 2nd you should have somewhat of a less fuzzy idea of the direction for your character. There are lots of things I wish I could have changed on my fighter, but I learned to work with her the way she kind of grew up.I'm against retraining past first level for a number of reasons:
1) Potential abuse issues.
2) Additional complexity (If you retrain a feat, do you get to retrain the gear related to that feat?)
3. Additional paperwork - tracking all the retraining. There's enough documentation that comes with an organized play environment already.
4. Frankly, I just don't like the feel of it. This is a campaign, not a series of one-shot adventures. Your decisions about your character should matter as they're part of the history of the character.Add me to the batch of people who think this way.
And to echo the bunny woman, I have a retired character who played with core rules, only. He did fine, and was a lot of fun, even though I really wanted to implement some of the sub-domains and such. Just means I have to create a new character to explore all those options, which is the point of all this, isn't it?
hehe bunny woman ..I'm giggling here
but yeppers ... sometimes the easiest thing to do is to just rebuild, if it's because you want a different race etc ... I have three versions of my heavens oracle in addition to a wind oracle that I play (I love oracles fyi). I'm sure eventually I'll have another version of my fighter or my sorceress just because of all the kewl awesomegoodfun things that have come out and will come out.
part of the cyclical nature of OP is making new characters and making old characters even more betterawesomefun
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
hehe bunny woman ..I'm giggling here
but yeppers ... sometimes the easiest thing to do is to just rebuild, if it's because you want a different race etc ... I have three versions of my heavens oracle in addition to a wind oracle that I play (I love oracles fyi). I'm sure eventually I'll have another version of my fighter or my sorceress just because of all the kewl awesomegoodfun things that have come out and will come out.
part of the cyclical nature of OP is making new characters and making old characters even more betterawesomefun
Good point. I've a 3rd levle Magus I don't play anymore because I'm not as familiar as I hoped and I am VERY rusty on prepared casters. I'll likely play a wizard or two before I look at playing him again for that reason. Sometimes 'bad builds' show OUR weaknesses, not lack of 'system mastery'
|
|
Good point. I've a 3rd levle Magus I don't play anymore because I'm not as familiar as I hoped and I am VERY rusty on prepared casters. I'll likely play a wizard or two before I look at playing him again for that reason. Sometimes 'bad builds' show OUR weaknesses, not lack of 'system mastery'hehe bunny woman ..I'm giggling here
but yeppers ... sometimes the easiest thing to do is to just rebuild, if it's because you want a different race etc ... I have three versions of my heavens oracle in addition to a wind oracle that I play (I love oracles fyi). I'm sure eventually I'll have another version of my fighter or my sorceress just because of all the kewl awesomegoodfun things that have come out and will come out.
part of the cyclical nature of OP is making new characters and making old characters even more betterawesomefun
Very true, for me also trying different classes and different builds means I become better at Gming those classes and builds ... so while I haven't tried a witch yet, that's actually my next one .. and then I'm thinking Magus after that .. or maybe alchemist ...
|
|
Making decisions - good ones and bad ones - which count and can't be easily reversed - this is what defines character.
Overcoming adversaries is what let's you feel achievement.
We should not forget that we play PCs - player characters
I don't say that playing a PB - a player build - can't be fun as well or in certain circumstances can be even more fun.
But it is still called a player character and I hope this aspec of the game won't change.
|
Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
|
And to echo the bunny woman, I have a retired character who played with core rules, only. He did fine, and was a lot of fun, even though I really wanted to implement some of the sub-domains and such. Just means I have to create a new character to explore all those options, which is the point of all this, isn't it?
Since I happen to agree with Thea and you on this, does this make you and I "Echoing Bunny Men?"
(You have to be old for that joke to make any sense.)
;)
|
|
And to echo the bunny woman, I have a retired character who played with core rules, only. He did fine, and was a lot of fun, even though I really wanted to implement some of the sub-domains and such. Just means I have to create a new character to explore all those options, which is the point of all this, isn't it?Since I happen to agree with Thea and you on this, does this make you and I "Echoing Bunny Men?"
(You have to be old for that joke to make any sense.)
;)
I'm not old so I don't get it (only 25 doncha know) but does this mean I get to start my own collection of bunny-men (thinking yes-men)?
ooo collection or harem.. which sounds better ....
|
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
And to echo the bunny woman, I have a retired character who played with core rules, only. He did fine, and was a lot of fun, even though I really wanted to implement some of the sub-domains and such. Just means I have to create a new character to explore all those options, which is the point of all this, isn't it?Since I happen to agree with Thea and you on this, does this make you and I "Echoing Bunny Men?"
(You have to be old for that joke to make any sense.)
;)
That'd be us. (-:
Thanks for picking up on it and not leaving me hanging.
