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When a magus uses spellstrike to deliver a shocking grasp through his weapon, if his opponent is wearing metal armor, does the magus still get the +3 to hit in melee?
ok thanks... needed to know for sure.
Yes, you do.
Shocking Grasp
Your successful melee touch attack deals 1d6 points of electricity damage per caster level (maximum 5d6). When delivering the jolt, you gain a +3 bonus on attack rolls if the opponent is wearing metal armor (or is carrying a metal weapon or is made of metal).
The +3 bonus to attack rolls is not specific to any weapon type. You get the +3 whether you deliver it with a touch attack, natural attack, unarmed strike, spellstrike, or even a ranged touch attack with Reach Spell. A Mymidiarch Magus even gets the +3 when using spellstrike with a ranged weapon.
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When the spell description was written, touch attack was the only possible way to deliver the spell. If spellstrike works the way a spellstoring weapon does the +3 would not apply.
That's not true. A caster with a natural attack (such as a claw) or a monk/caster with unarmed strike could deliver the spell through the natural attack or unarmed strike. They would be foregoing the touch attack (making a standard attack roll), but if it hit, it would deal both claw/unarmed damage as well as deliver the spell.
With a spell storing weapon, the spell is not cast until the attack hits. This is not the case with spellstrike.
The only difference between using spellstrike and not is the attack though which you deliver the spell.
Other than deploying the spell with a melee weapon attack instead of a melee touch attack, the magus spellstrike ability doesn’t change the normal rules for using touch spells in combat (Core Rulebook page 185). The above is a quote from FAQ about spellstrike. The +3 is for the spell however it is delivered its part of the spell itself. Even if you change damage type it would still retain the +3 to hit metal bareing oponites. That could be one of the reasons it's a magus must have spell.
And if you use it get highent spell and elemental spell and have fun.
Note the two diffences a stored spell has when in a weapon are 1 no need to roll an attack 2 since no attack you can not crit a stored spell. SO if you look at it a stored shocking grasp gives no +3 but a cast shocking grasp does. Means of delivery (i.e. any means of delivering touch spells) recieves the +3 accept auto hits because it doesn't need it.
Gee, now I'm confused again... Guess I'll have to leave this up to my GM to make a house ruling on it. I think the +3 should apply, but I can see there are two sides to this.
I would suggest the following:
Anytime you are trying to do a touch or ranged touch attack and thus are doing only the spell damage I would apply the +3.
However, if you are trying to deliver a regular (weapon, natural weapon, unarmed strike) attack that also happens to carry the spell then the regular attack rules would apply (ie. no +3 bonus to attack roll).
The reasoning is that the +3 bonus is because the electricity discharges easier into a target carrying metal BUT that bonus shouldnt apply to the regular weapon damage. To do so otherwise would seriously ramp up the power of the shocking grasp spell when in the hands of a magus beyond the normal 'add spell damage to the attack'.
This is just my opinion though. - Gauss
or you can look at it as the electricity in the blade acts like a magnet. Or what ever. This has all been asked before btw. the general rule was to take the spell as it is writen.
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This is a difficult question. I believe that Gauss has the right of it, that the +3 bonus should only apply when making a touch attack because of the conductivity of metal armor. However, I also realize that modifying spells opens a huge can of worms and should be avoided.
As another option, I'll offer the following. When a Magus uses Spellstrike to deliver Shocking Grasp, the player rolls to hit without the bonus. If the roll hits, both attack and spell are successful. If the roll misses by 3 or less, then the Shocking Grasp arcs from the weapon to the target clad in metal armor and is delivered despite the fact that the weapon attack missed. If the attack roll misses by 4 or more, both the weapon attack and the spell have missed.
Certainly this falls squarely in the realm of house rules, so don't think I'm offering it as anything other than that. However, I think the OP raises a good question that deserves an official answer. I'll click FAQ, and I advise everyone else to do the same.
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For reference my own preference for house rules is almost word for word of the same as Obirandiaths.
I would like to make it clear that the matter of fact manner that those that support the idea that it doesn't work is based upon the bias of how those particular individuals think it should function rather than a misinterpretation of the English language.
To be perfectly up front and to not obfuscate the clear answer as though it was a disagreement among opposing opinions here's the language:
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Shocking grasp (SRD)
When delivering the jolt, you gain a +3 bonus on attack rolls if the opponent is wearing metal armor (or is carrying a metal weapon or is made of metal)
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Sean K reynolds (PF Official FAQ) - 'The only official source of clarification that touches on the manner that I'm aware of'Other than deploying the spell with a melee weapon attack instead of a melee touch attack, the magus spellstrike ability doesn’t change the normal rules for using touch spells in combat (Core Rulebook page 185).............Basically, the spellstrike gives the magus more options when it comes to delivering touch spells; it’s not supposed to make it more difficult for the magus to use touch spells.
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If you need another reference;Touch spells in combat 'CRB'
Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren't considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges.
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Nowhere is there any evidence that I'm aware of that changes how the rules are expressly written or anything concrete that supports the personal opinion that it doesn't function in such a way per RAW.
It seems pretty clear in my opinion unless I'm fundamentally misunderstanding the language.
1.) The spell confers a +3 bonus to an attack roll to deliver the spell. Since it's doesn't say 'melee touch attack to deliver the spell' it applies to unarmed strikes, natural attacks, and spellstrike all of which hold the capacity to do damage on their own and hold the possibility of being a miss in their own right without the bonus.
2.) There's an developer quoted in the official FAQ that supports it functions the way it's written.
3.) Nowhere that I'm aware of is there anything in the books that says spellstrike changes the way the spell functions.
While the way people think the rules should work has discussion value it is erroneous to support that they do function in that manner. This is a question posted in the rules question section not the house-rules section. So if you're looking for a clear cut answer and I assume you are then the answer is, Yes. AFAIK.
If you want peoples opinions on how it should work that's a different matter entirely.
I will add my vote to bumping the FAQ on this question, though. As any rules clarification is always nice.
He get's it. Anybody may argue that he shouldn't. But that's just arguing for the sake of it. For once, rules are extremely clear on this matter.
