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3 Longships filled with 300-400 lvl 2 Barbarians.
Now what would we expect them to face, how much "plunder".
My players are mostly a 7-8th lvl party.
Any suggestions and tips would be helpful.
Check out the section describing Sandpoint in Rise of the Runelords: Burnt Offerings. That will give you notable NPCs with class levels. Or look to a Gamemastery guide and look at the statistics for a town of that size.
Although why anyone would want to raid Sandpoint is beyond me. Such an awesome town.
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That would most likely wipe Sandpoint off the map.
As of Jade Regent, the militia has become more organized and now has little to fear from goblin incursions. But 300+ ulfen warriors? They would most likely raze it. Even more so with a party of 7th-level PCs taking care of the few pockets of resistance here and there.
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I was getting ready to pull out RotRL and see the various ways Sandpoint can react and repel invaders. Then I saw that I misread the OP and that I had taken off a zero from each relevant number.
Cripes. Why the hate for Sandpoint?
It's probably not going to amount to too much being split 300-400 ways before the actual party comes into the equation.
Then again the local dragons could sink the boats for kicks. Hey, I'm with Team Sandpoint.
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Then again the local dragons could sink the boats for kicks. Hey, I'm with Team Sandpoint.
I like the way you think.
Also, maybe the heroes that put down Runelord Karzoug like he was a rabid chihuahua just happen to be in town having a drink to remember the old days?
Go team Sandpoint!
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They probably can wipe Sandpoint from the map. The might have to face retaliation from Magnimar and possibly from the Varisian tribes (The history of Sandpoint and the money they get from Sandpoints taxes might really p... them off when it is reduced to a smolering ruin).
The plunder will indeed be sparse. If I remember correctly, one local merchant is know for having a low level enchanted crossbow for sale, that wouldn't be the cas eif the place was ripe with gold and enchanted items.
Oh and they will probably have to fave the wrath of Miss Stabby herself and a verrrrry angry epic level T-Rex ;-)
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Yeah, old heroes of Sandpoint and the rest of the local reaction shouldn't be discounted before, during, and after such an attack.
And if Sandpoint is wiped out or otherwise looks like the start of a Scourge of the Slave Lords campaign, there's no shortage of adventurers of a heroic bent to come from Magnimar and the surrounding area who had ties with Sandpoint, Varisian, Shoanti, Chelaxian, or otherwise. Ya better believe they'll finish whatever fight the Nords start, even if they have to go up to Skyrim to do i.....wait, confused...even if they have to go up to Land of the Linnorm kings to do it.
Add that to the fact that outright raiding of nonhostile nations/potential trading partners is frowned upon by a sizable portion of modern Ulfen society(at least if my skimming of Land of the Linnorm Kings was correct(still need to sit down with it)), they'll have an easier time tracking down an extremely large force of Ulfen men that went off on a long-distance raid and came back with pocket change(if they didn't take slaves that is, which is only going to motivate Varisian heroes that much more).
I keep getting this mixed up in my head and wind up thinking of this along the lines of the actual players in the OP being the BBEGs here and the vauge retaliatory force are the players.
Alternately, a high-level white necromancer finds the ruins of Sandpoint, is horrified and outraged, and convinces Shalelu, Belor Hemlock, Ameiko Kaijitsu, and Jasper Korvaski to rise from their graves and bring the destroyers of their home and lives to justice. Hey, worth it for the visuals alone.
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I love the concept! How would you run the raid? PCs leading squads? PCs commanding from the ships or the party on aside mission while troops handle the raid.
Personally I like the idea of letting them get away with the raid and having them walk through a set of political scenarios and complications of running the sacked city. If a city is so easily raided, would it attract other raiders? Rival vikings? Pirates? Heck, if the witches of Irrisen got wind of a newly sacked city would they teleport a a force down? or what if the vikings released a slow eldritch curse on the city when they raided. An internal resistance over time would be cool too, it would be a good opportunity to use the rival guide.
I love ideas like this, thanks for sharing. This may influence the way I run Rune Lords.
Well how my players intend to raid the city is up to them.
I will most likely set up some main encounter in a few of the more defendebel buildings.
If you have the Sandpoint map i am thinking building nr.10, 11, 20, 27 and the local church of desna.
I will use some "local" heroes as defender that are not part of the city in Rise of the Runelords.
As for slavery it is likely that they will enslave a 100 or so they will not be able to transport more then that.
There is no real hate for Sandpoint, but in the eyes of my players a small weak city like this is a tempting target.
Now, as my players main base of operation is Sjoldmur in Broken bay, they are unlikely to anger the king there considering that he is all for raiding.
However i do think they will most likely get into some form of conflict with White Estrid in the Ironbound Isles and possible the king of Karlsgard.
It would be nice to get a few more opinions on other political problems they would face.
In Burt offerings the city has about 50k wealth, is this wealth there trade goods, gold, magic items, food.
Or does this include building etc ?
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Not buildings, but probably (for adventurers) less desireable loot like foodstuff, farm animals and tinder, considering sandpoints role in the magnimar holding.
Don't underestimate the role of varisian caravans as traders and entertainers. Sandpoints special founding still ensures, several Varisian tribes get a steady income of tax money. Considering the strong bounds of the tribes to one another, they might get Broken Bay some economical problems.
There are several Shoanti dwelling in Sandpoint, not all of them totally enstranged from their respective tribes. A warlike people as the Shoanti might seek some sort of revenge for the loss of their people.
Is Varisia a collection of city-states or one united nation?
If they are just city-states holding the town won't be that hard. If it is a nation I think they will try to make an example of the PC's.
My Golarion-fu is weak.
You could borrow the 16th level wizard and 15th level sorcerer from my Rise of the Runelords campaign that took up more or less permanent residence in Sandpoint to act as defenders. With the wizard's small army of simulacrums and ice golems, that should make for a lively encounter.
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3 Longships filled with 300-400 lvl 2 Barbarians.
Now what would we expect them to face, how much "plunder".
My players are mostly a 7-8th lvl party.
Any suggestions and tips would be helpful.
With only three ships the outcome is actually quite swingy, if they attempt an amphibious assault. They are far better landing up the coast and coming overland.
If the town gets any kind of warning, a number of low-level spells and/or fire arrows could easily sink one or more ships. That could result in a number of drowned barbarians that never make the shore (and a great hook for a further adventure regarding the rising of the sodden dead).
I agree with previous posters though - once they make it to land there will be carnage.
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James Jacobs points out that Sandpoint potentially has a superweapon.
Awesome. I had forgotten about that old girl. Like a pissed off Statue of Liberty up in that piece.
Overland travel after landing up or down the shore also adds the possibility of encounters with
Though i dont know the plan for the pcs attack i would expect it to be a night time raid.
I doubt the City will have any warning.(atm only 3 ppl know of the plan to raid the city).
As for use "the super weapon" it would seem weird that this is suddenly operational.
However i would like to throw in something unexpected vs my players.
Something they wont see coming at all.
Of course, depending on whether ROTR has occured, Sandpoint has experience repelling another, nastier invasion...
Giants
Red Dragon
Etc.
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nothing is nastier then player characters :)
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I don't think the Ulfen would ever make it to Sandpoint. There are too many other easier/closer targets. Plus the logistics are problematic. You would have to worry more about desertion or mutiny. This scenario has no realism.
Longship
Maximum Speed 120 ft. (current and muscle) or 30 ft. (muscle only)DESCRIPTION
This long and relatively thin boat has a single mast with a square sail. It can traverse lakes, oceans, and deep rivers. It can carry 50 tons of cargo or 100 soldiers.
Travel Time: The speed of the boat gives about 30-90 (fighting and riding currents) miles of travel per day. This is going to be a very lengthy trip and they are going to pass up at least 2 settlements that are easier targets and much closer. Your party Face is going to have problems convincing 300+ barbarians, scattered across 3 ships, not to sack easy and quick targets. Plus travel to a location they have most likely never heard of. Straight trip is about 240 miles, about 3-4 days of travel.
Supply: I am guessing the crew are barbarians and will be fighting. That leaves room for 3-20 (400-300 barbs) tons of cargo per ship. It will take about 1.25 tons per ship per day to feed the barbarians. If you take 400, there is not enough space for supplies for a round trip. Are they relying on looting their return supplies? If the ships stop daily to forage, there is no believable way to get that much forage after a full day of travel. Water will take up most of the cargo, but may nessecitate early stops daily for refills. Are barbarians going to want to row all day and eat trail rations? If you are taking closer to 400 barbarians, there is no room for loot, unless you are hoping on heavy losses. Ulfen loot for a living, would realize the space constraints, and be harder to convince.
Murphy's Law
1) All it takes is a faster boat to sight them and warning could be given. Magnimar is close enough they would send a few ships carrying low level wizards to set your fleet on fire. If they don't stop you before landing, they can raze your boats while the barbarians are off looting. If you leave a group behind to protect the boats, your raiding force is weakened.
2) A storm could spread the fleet or possibly wreck a boat. Spread out the fleet is more prone to attack and any loss could ruin the chance of victory.
3) Navigation hazards. They exist and the Ulfen crew are most likely not going to know the area. If they hug the coastline to stay out of the trade lanes, increased chance of breeching the hull. Since you plan on raiding at night = low tide and better chance of hitting something or accidently getting grounded.
I hope these few pointers show you how much I want your Ulfen to die and leave the poor downtrodden town of Sandpoint alone.
some good points there, but they will probably raid more then just sandpoint.
Its more of a round the world trip were they will be raiding targets that they find.
They will however probably need more ships.(probably steal)
Btw Norse sailors got to the Americas with longboats so i would expect a trip to varisia to be easy.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Btw Norse sailors got to the Americas with longboats so i would expect a trip to varisia to be easy.
They didn't have to worry about running into any big nasties with pointy teeth or fireballs. No one really knows how those trips were conducted, but I suspect they did not have boats full of barbarians and they packed lots of supplies. We only know details of the few successful groups. Looking over the tales, many more crews were never seen again.
well i try to not let my players run into a kraken every they get on a ship even though its tempting.
They shouldn't get past the Shadde-Quah.
Shadde-Quah (The Axe Clan)
One of the few Shoanti clans who utilize permanent homes, the sea-cave-dwelling members of the Shadde-Quah are noted divers and fishermen. The Axe Clan plays a vital role in protecting Varisia from seaward invaders from the west, defending their homeland in a way completely different than their land-locked brethren.
Magnimar and Riddleport send tribute, in the form of food and weapons, to the Axe Clan, so they're generally well-equipped; three longships would be easy prey for their fire arrows and boarding axes.
Longship
Ac 2
Hardness 5
Hp 675(337)
That is going to take a few arrows.
Shadde-Quah will be an encounter for sure though i do not enjoy running mass battles as a dm so much :)
Longship
Ac 2
Hardness 5
Hp 675(337)That is going to take a few arrows.
Shadde-Quah will be an encounter for sure though i do not enjoy running mass battles as a dm so much :)
But they´ll bring warning, so you´ll have one at Sandpoint, or not?
Some thoughts.Anyways, PRD says 50 crew and 120 soldiers, that would be 510 men in all, with no provisions and heavy weapons. So 300, most 2lvl and Jarls/Thanes/Officers/Captains ? Thats a lots of men to feed and entertain. And water !
They will need to land often, passing Celwynvian, the Ancient elven capital, which is still watched over by elves and Hollow Mountain, also ancient capital, of the Runelord empire.
The they will have to decide if they want to follow the islands or the mainland. The islands scream cyclopses for me, but might hold anything, the mainland holds another Runelord-ruin.
If they want to strike for Sandpoint directly, they really deserve the Kraken.
PS: Check the Pathfinder wiki/Golariopedia for inspiration;).
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I would have the Shadde-Quah attack in small groups. A largish group would approach in ships shooting burning arrows to draw attention and cause fires. From the opposite side a few approach stealthily. Toss a couple alchemist's fire on board before diving below the water to hack holes in the hull. The ships would be slowed due to loss of sails, holes in hull, and rowers having to protect themselves. The Shadde-Quah circle like sharks, ripping the boats to shreds. Sounds fun.
Longship
Ac 2
Hardness 5
Hp 675(337)That is going to take a few arrows.
Shadde-Quah will be an encounter for sure though i do not enjoy running mass battles as a dm so much :)
That is HP for the whole boat. By the time it has lost that many HP it should be in pieces and sinking quickly. The hull of the ship is made of wood, each board having 5 hardness and 10-20 HP. Wouldn't take long for a few Shadd-Quah to start holing your ships.
Plus longboats used pitch to seal the ship. Pitch burns really well. The fire would spread quickly. Also a few burning arrows into the sail and it is done for. They have no hardness and 1 hp.
im not looking to TPK my players again...
So i wont be trowing any RotRL parties at them, though maybe i could resurrect my lvl 20 Desna Cleric that i played in RotRl :)
After taking my own advise and reading about Sandpoint itself, i´d say the main plunder will be found in the shipyards, the brewery and the handfull of manors.
Personally i´d be exspecially interested in the cellar of the academy, but i´d hate to fight my way in there;).
I´d exspect a good-sized militia with warrior levels and bows in every window.
Btw Norse sailors got to the Americas with longboats so i would expect a trip to varisia to be easy.They didn't have to worry about running into any big nasties with pointy teeth or fireballs. No one really knows how those trips were conducted, but I suspect they did not have boats full of barbarians and they packed lots of supplies. We only know details of the few successful groups. Looking over the tales, many more crews were never seen again.
The Ulfen have had a whole COLONY in Arcadia (fantasy North America) for the past five THOUSAND years. And they have to sail past the remnants of Azlant to get there and back.
These Vikings are badass super sailors.
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If Ulfen raids were a rather common occurrence in the latest decades on the Varisian coast, you can bet that every sizable coastal settlement has some means of not suffering too much from such a raid, whether it is common aquatic dangers of the area, powerful defense systems or an advance warning system and the ability to flee quickly with their valuables.
Ditto if such raids were frequent whan the settlement was built, though if they have become rarer, the means described above might be partly out of order.
In other words, if Sandpoint was such an attractive prey for Ulfen raiders, some would probably have already destroyed the town before the PCs even heard about it.
BTW, how did the PCs learn about this easy juicy target ? Because if it is mostly OOC knowledge, then you should consider strongly deviating from the cannon description of Sandpoint, if only to punish them for using OOC knowledge.
I know I would.
If Ulfen raids were a rather common occurrence in the latest decades on the Varisian coast, you can bet that every sizable coastal settlement has some means of not suffering too much from such a raid, whether it is common aquatic dangers of the area, powerful defense systems or an advance warning system and the ability to flee quickly with their valuables.
Ditto if such raids were frequent whan the settlement was built, though if they have become rarer, the means described above might be partly out of order.
In other words, if Sandpoint was such an attractive prey for Ulfen raiders, some would probably have already destroyed the town before the PCs even heard about it.
BTW, how did the PCs learn about this easy juicy target ? Because if it is mostly OOC knowledge, then you should consider strongly deviating from the cannon description of Sandpoint, if only to punish them for using OOC knowledge.
I know I would.
I've read somewhere that King Sveinn Blood-Eagle is telling the raiders not to raid others because he's trying to get the Linnorm Kings a lot of trade from other nations and raids kind of put a rain on that parade. That's why there's been very few notable raids in the last 50 years of the timeline except for White Estrid raiding Absalom.
They dont really care about what some King says :)
They do what they want when they want to.
Also i will not use a standard Sandpoint as it is far to weak to be any fun(for me).
Bear in mind that 300-400 warriors with two PC class levels are a pretty elite force. This force cannot only wipe an insignificant coastal village off the map, with the right leadership (read: a group of mid to high - level PCs) it can probably conquer a small nation.
A more typical several hundred strong ulfen invasion force would probably consist of predominantly lvl 1 warriors, with two dozen lvl 2/3 veterans and a handful champions with barbarian levels (I'd say lvl 2 to 5).
Also for 400 vikings you will need more than 3 longships (5 at least, probably as many as 10).
aye though it is possible to fit 140 ppl in one longship it would leave no room for food or loot so they will need more ships.
But knowing my players they will find some way of getting more ships for sure.
Last time they set sail they raided another ship at took it.
I assume it will happen again.
Longship
Ac 2
Hardness 5
Hp 675(337)That is going to take a few arrows.
Not so many if they can set the ships on fire -- wooden ships were pretty easy to burn, because the materials used to make them water resistant also made them highly flammable. In addition, longships are open -- the rowers are not protected from arcing arrows by a deck over their heads. You wouldn't have to wound or kill all that many of the rowers to screw up the synchronization of the oars and slow the ship to a crawl or get it going in circles, either.
I might not be your best advisor, though, because I absolutely would TPK any group of PCs that proposed to sack Sandpoint; I love that town.
They dont really care about what some King says :)
They do what they want when they want to.
Yeah, I'm sure that will work out well. Let's not forget that the region isn't called Land of the Linnorm Kings for nothing. Each one of the rulers has killed his own Linnorm. Alone. Besides White Esgrid, who keeps hers as a pet.
Yeah they will get into trouble sooner or later.
Im looking forward to it
If you look at the NPCs from the Gamemasters Guide, you'll see that the average NPC is not level 1.
Well thats arguent is somewhat flawed, since releasing a book full of lvl 1 NPC would be pointless.
Bu you're right, seasoned warriors probably deserve 2 levels, 1 lvl would be fresh recruits.
PC classes though - thats s.th. different.
Having 300-400 level two Barbarians running around just is cheesy, though.
If you look at city statblocks, most melee type people there are Warriors. A viking raiding force should be mostly compromised of those as well, given that they live in pretty civilized ( for a medieval setting ) settlements. And having 300-400 second level Warriors running around ( supplemented by some Barbarian lieutenants ) is also much more reasonable from an equipment point of view. Imagine that Sandpoint miraculously survives... they'll have a sudden influx of 300.000 to 400.000 GP of loot. ^^
Having so many of those Barbarians available for raiding raises a lot of logical questions why your PC's are the leaders, what the local liege lord is thinking of your guys running off with them and the danger of you probably starting an outright war with the Shoanti and Magnimar. Riddleport probably won't respond kindly to such a raid either, given that they will rightly have to fear that they are next in line.
And when you get so many powers angry at you, suddenly a lot of pretty high level people start showing up at your doorstep with their own armies.
I'm the player who is planning this. I'm not sure if I should be reading this thread, but I doubt BEGS will post his final plans for Sandpoint on here until after the raid is over.
I see a lot of opinions here so I thought I could explain a little.
I made my barbarian to be a viking raider type character, with the ultimate goal of becoming a linnorm king. I have all skills I could think of to be relevant for seafaring and captaining a ship like profession sailor, intimidate, craft woodworking for repairs and knowledge nature.
The ships I've gained by killing their owners and taken them, the men, mostly the ships original crew whom I let live, and forced/intimidated into following me. Then in turn taken them raiding and giving them a share of loot.
Some men I've hired. I've spent no money on gear, but only on equipping and improving my raiding force.
The crew is also the raiders, they started out as level 1, but after taking them on many fights, and us the players having gained many levels BEGS upgraded them to level 2.
I don't see the capacity of the ships or the short distance to Varisia to pose any problem for my plans, and as to how I've heard of Sandpoint I would rather think it strange if a travelling seafaring people such as ulfen had not heard of Saqndpoint with all the events that has taken place there.
The reason Sandpoint was chosen is a coincidence. First I just told BEGS I wanted to raid small villages down the varisian coast. When he pressed me for a more specific location sandpoint was the first one that popped into my head, and I knew BEGS would like it, hehe.
I knew he would like it because when I GM'd RotRL the players, and especially BEGS hated Sandpoint. Why I don't know. I did my best to get them to take an interest in the town, but they much preferred to live in Magnimar. I could barely get them to bother defending sandpoint when the giants attacked.
Anyways I'm coming for sandpoint, I plan to raze the town, plunder, rape, kill and enslave, leaving nothing but a burnt ruin :-)
If that's how your group rolls, we can hardly stop you. :-/
Yeah they will get into trouble sooner or later.
Im looking forward to it
Me too :p