I'm wondering what most players have used to generate stats for their currently active characters. I'm particularly interested in techniques other than the standard point buy or the traditional "roll 4d6, drop the lowest, repeat six times" approach.
I currently have three active characters.
Ranger - standard 15 point buy.
Witch - rolled 4d6, drop 1 six times
druid - rolled 4d6, drop 1 six times
In the campaigns I run I give the players the option of either rolling 4d6 dropping 1 or using a 15 point buy. In my currently active campaign only one player opted for rolling the dice, and he got a reasonably decent roll, but nothing spectacular. The rest all used the 15 point buy.
My druid rolled pretty average overall, but did get an 18. Had she done a point buy it would have been a 16 or 17 point buy I think. The witch rolled crazy good, coming out as something like a 24 point buy as I recall.
When we roll dice we either roll them in person at the gaming table or we use one of the online random dice generator services which deliver the results to the GM directly so there's no fudging of dice possible.
The system I am hearing about that I find most interesting is the one where all players roll dice and the highest player's results are then used by all the players. I've never done that, and frankly I'm not sure I'd like it as a player. But I suppose it's "fair" by some definitions of the word "fair."
Just wondering how other folks have done it.
2d6+6 works for my rolling when it happens. I prefer point buy though.
I plan on having the entire group roll one set together at the start of my next campaign.
You mean the entire group roll their separate 18 dice together? Or pooling all of the dice and then letting the group fight over which ones to apply to their own stats? That might be fun.
Just for kicks I did this three times to see what I ended up with:
First set of dice:
3, 1, 2, 3, 1, 1, 2, 6, 2, 2, 6, 1, 1, 5, 6, 1, 2, 3
Second set of dice:
3, 2, 6, 6, 4, 5, 1, 4, 5, 5, 3, 1, 5, 1, 1, 5, 2, 6
Third set of dice:
1, 5, 3, 4, 5, 6, 4, 5, 6, 1, 2, 2, 6, 4, 5, 3, 4, 5
That first set is pretty sad...
It's interesting to me that all three rolls ended up with precisely three sixes.
Hmm... That's just interesting enough to warrant a player group discussion.
I recall this method from somewhere. Everyone assigns there own stats and then calculates the Point Buy value. If your PB value is over a certain number, you get Hubris points. Anytime the DM needs to make a random decision, like which character will this random event/monster/attack etc... effect/hit, he picks the person with the highest Hubris score, and then subtracts 1 from that Hubris score. I wish I could remember where I saw this...memory is always the 2nd thing to go with age, I just wish I could remember the first.
Another is to use 18 cards divided into 6 stats.
1- randomly divide 18 cards (1-6) 3 per stat, in order
2- add up each stat
3- add 1 to a stat and 6 (max 18)to another stat
3.5(optional) switch any 2 stats
4- adjust for race
The 1 is to make an odd stat even.
The 6 can make a moderate stat good (or a poor stat moderate), if you really want to play a specific class/concept. This gets you the random/organic-ness of rolling, but keeps the fairness(all characters are around the same power) of point buy (without the cookie cutter sameness).
Other methods;
- start with a stat array and randomly assign them to stats
- roll 3 stats and then use some formula to determine the other 3 (something like 21 - rolled stat = new stat)
- everyone rolls an array, but then can choose anybody's array
|
I am pretty much all point buy these days but dice pool option seems kind of interesting.
Dice Pool: Each character has a pool of 24d6 to assign to his statistics. Before the dice are rolled, the player selects the number of dice to roll for each score, with a minimum of 3d6 for each ability. Once the dice have been assigned, the player rolls each group and totals the result of the three highest dice. For more high-powered games, the GM should increase the total number of dice to 28. This method generates characters of a similar power to the Standard method.
I usually use point buy, but I occasionally roll in order when I'm not sure what I want to play or feel like building around scores instead of assigning them.
Starting all new characters :
I roll 3 sets of 4d6 drop lowest, then allow the players to choose any of the three arrays they want.
Starting new characters in existing game :
I roll 3 sets of 4d6 drop lowest, then allow the player to choose any of the three arrays they want.
I should try that 18d6 thing sometime. Maybe even count 1s as 2s... or 24d6-6 lowest
Point buy bro.
If you get your fun out of rolling stats I personally think that you're silly.
! checked out the big bang, and using the numbers 666555444333333222, I got numbers ranging from 20 point buy to 9 point buy. It promotes min-maxing, so I'm moving back to 20 pb or 25 depending on the occasion.
Either a 20 point buy or 4d6 drop lowest re-roll ones, whichever my players want to do for that campaign. I did 25 point buy once my group didn't like it very much.
|
It really depends on the game (Pathfinder isn't the only game I've played, or that I play now).
The two current Pathfinder games I'm in were point-buy. Because both of them were intended to be about 'True Heroes', we got 25 pts for it, which is the highest end offered in the book, so the characters are (potentially anyway) very capable, stat-wise.
I like 25 point buy. In general, I like the PCs on the powerful side.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It promotes min-maxing, so I'm moving back to 20 pb or 25 depending on the occasion.Min-maxing happens regardless of the rules used. If you think point buy makes any difference I don't know what to tell you.
I think point-buy makes min-maxing a little more prevalent. :)
Then again, while I don't like 'min-maxing' when someone takes it too far-- I do not believe that it is bad role-playing to want an effective character, and to take steps (optimization) to make your character effective (again, so long as you don't take that optimization too far-- aka, attempt to jam in all kinds of things that don't make sense for the character, solely for the powers/abilities it gives you-- that's too far).
Hmm, I really like the look of The Big Bang....
Though since I like having powerful groups I am thinking of doing 24d6 drop the lowest 6 :D
It promotes min-maxing, so I'm moving back to 20 pb or 25 depending on the occasion.Min-maxing happens regardless of the rules used. If you think point buy makes any difference I don't know what to tell you.
Either every single means of creating a character is exactly equal in min-max opportunity, or some means facilitate min-maxing more than others. My bet is that some are more conducive than others. I suppose you could argue which is more and which is less, but to say it makes no difference seems the least logically supportable argument.
A min-maxer will min-max regardless of the method.
A NON-min-maxer will still min-max in less noticeable ways, merely by taking reasonable options.
But if you are trying to minimize min maxing (heh, that's almost a pun) then choosing the technique that does so makes sense. Which I believe is what the comment was suggesting.
In my games the players roll 2d6+6 for stats, assigning the resulting numbers as they see fit.
I typically use 15 pt. point buy, but that is because I allow the group to vote on everyone using that option or one of the following options.
B) 3d6 six times arrange as desired
C) 4d6 drop lowest rolled in order
Wow, I think you just won hard-core GM of the thread!
Usually point buy but my guys once convinced me to let them roll one pool of dice and then they took turns taking one dice at a time from the pool.
Usually point buy but my guys once convinced me to let them roll one pool of dice and then they took turns taking one dice at a time from the pool.
I've thought about this. In fact I took it far enough that I decided the only fair way to do it is to alternate turns for each cycle so that the player who picked a die last in the first round picked first in the second round and the person who picked first in the first round would pick last in the second round until all the dice were picked.
Still, those first few players have a pretty huge advantage.
My first DM did 3 methods for the players.
1) You could roll 3d6 seven times, then drop the lowest number in the set. You rolled 3 sets, then chose the one you wanted.
2) You could roll 4d6 and reroll 1's (and occasionally 2's if the campaign was going to be high-powereed). You rolled 3 sets, then chose the one you wanted.
3) The DM rolled 5 of Option 1 and 5 of Option 2. He then rearranged them randomly. You could then roll 1d10 and take the associated set. This method seems boring (after all, rolling the dice is a lot of fun), but this guy is by far the luckiest guy I have ever met - his sets were usually quite powerful. To explain the luck factor, I saw him do this method once and came up with [18,18,17,17,17,16] on a set, assign it to a number, then roll for his own DM character. Naturally, it was that set. It was completely ridiculous. I thought his dice were loaded, but I couldn't recreate it with those specific dice.
Side note: That DM had no problem with high stats. He was "classically trained," so he knew there were plenty of ways to get around high stats.
My current group (all of which were taught by that same DM) uses point buy, usually 15-25. Our main campaign has rolled stats, but we kinda dislike rolling... we usually see one character who just overshadows the others just because the player is luckier. We've tried to come up with balancing factors (like giving points to distribute based on differences total modifiers), but not a lot of stuff works - point buy is effective in terms of putting a group all on the same playing field. It just encourages min-maxing quite a bit.
I usually just do point buy, since it allows people to fully prepare a character outside of "face time", without anybody having to trust anyone else over rolled stats. (I nearly always trust my players, but I know that the temptation to just fudge a hair can be there, and I'd rather the players get the "at the helm" feeling that comes with being behind their stats - whether they're picking them or rolling them - rather than having me tell them what array they're using because I rolled.) Particularly if characters are going to start at a higher level, producing characters takes long enough that I'd typically rather people be able to do it on their own time. There are some things about rolling systems that appeal to me, but logistically point buy is easier to work with. (There are also some things about rolling systems that don't appeal to me; while not everyone dislikes characters having randomly assigned large advantages compared to others, there's not that many people who say, "why yes, I am happiest only when it's the case that some players randomly get large bonuses or penalties compared to others, completely out of anyone's control.")
After a lot of experimentation, I feel that I'm generally happiest with what I see out of 20-point buys. Yeah, point buy allows - and arguably encourages - dumping, but I do my best to make every stat matter for every character as much as I can, within the constraints of the system. Even when I'm trying to do "low power" campaigns or scenarios, half of the time I look at what can be done with lower point buys and end up using 20 anyway.
|
|
I typically use 15 pt. point buy, but that is because I allow the group to vote on everyone using that option or one of the following options.
B) 3d6 six times arrange as desired
C) 4d6 drop lowest rolled in order
The problem I see with this is that I'd like to play a hero... not someone who seems worse off than the real-life me. Kind of a bench-line I use more often for modern games... if *I* am more capable in reality than my character seems to be in the game, it's a game I'm probably not going to be interested in.
Hmmm... with this you could five 13s and a 10. Or three 14s and three 10s. Or, you could break the bank and get a 16, a 14, and four 10s. You do get your racial stat boosts, fortunately, and it is playable. But it's not very heroic. You don't have to go the 25 pt buy that the two campaigns I'm currently playing in have, but I wouldn't want to go lower than the 20 pt buy that PFS play uses.
I do 4d6 drop the lowest 8 times, keep your best 6 if I want a 'high stat' game.
Alternately, I'll give the players the option of a variant of the 1st Ed UA rules, where they have 9d6 for their 'main' score, 8d6 for the next, and on down the list in an order determined according to their needs. This tends to really help MAD characters.
Also, if any character substantially breaks the curve, I'll give free points to characters to bring them to comparable power (not the exact same number, but comparable), but that seldom happens. Maybe twice in the last 5 years.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
One alternate I had someone do when they GM'd was dice allocation.
You get 24 dice to allocate amongst your 6 stats, roll and pick the 3 highest for each stat.
So,
if you're going to go for a druid, for example, you might allocate 6 dice to your wisdom, 4 to Con, 4 to Cha, and 3 to each of the remaining stats. Then roll the allocated dice, and pick the highest 3 dice and total them up for each stat.
It's sort of like a weighted 4d6 drop lowest.
We recently started rolling 24d6, dropping the 6 lowest rolls. It seems to be a much more dependable method if you're wanting to churn out some mid-high stats reliably. On average, it seems to yield stats totaling somewhere in the neighborhood of +6 overall to +10 overall. There are extreme exceptions, of course, but that was the more or less the ballpark.
Wish I could remember what method we used for our 0-level characters. Those characters were always the easiest to grow attached to.
Roll for ability scores? People still DO that!?
|
|
The problem I see with this is that I'd like to play a hero...I can assure you that my players feel their characters are plenty heroic with the options we use... as that "hero" feeling is more about how successful your character ends up being than the specific numbers actually involved.
(cut for space)
with a 15 pt. spread, any race can easily have 2 scores fit that description without being below average in any regard.
I might play in such a game (if there were lots of other compensating factors)-- but that's one policy made part of it that I will never be happy with. 15 pt characters are barely above average, as far as I'm concerned (mathematically, it might qualify as a bit more than average, but it doesn't feel that way to me). Yes, you can start with two 15s, if you basically set every other stat as a 10 (one can be 11) or drop a stat or two. If you like playing average joes who are struggling to overcome their circumstances and master the universe, Great, go for it (not my interest). I already spent 20+ years being an average joe, doing all the exciting things (and all the miserable things) that civilians never get to experience. I do NOT play role-playing games so I can feel like I've gone right back to being an average soldier in the ranks. No, I'm not a munchkin-- but I stand by what I said: if *I* am more competent than my starting character is, I'm not interested-- and 15 pts feels like it's on that wrong side of line, for a character that's as good (basic abilities-wise) as my fellow soldiers and I were when I was in the military. 20 pts (like PFS uses) feels like it's on the right side of that line (seems like heroes at that level are at least a little better).
Clearly I'm not going to change your mind, nor the minds of those who agree with you, but I still vehemently disagree, and NOTHING you have said gives me any reason to reconsider. Continuing this particular discussion is probably pointless, between you and me (continuing it with others who are undecided is another matter). You want to game that way, more power to you... it's your game.
Hi.
I like to roll 4d6 drop the lowest IN ORDER.
Then players can place a freebie 18 in any 1 ability score OR they can place two 16's in any two ability scores.
Usually tends to make pretty high modifiers, BUT some of them inevitable end up in a stat that does not help the character mechanically and I find it is these stats that the players usually use to create an interesting aspect of their actual CHARACTER. Ex. A fairly strong wizard makes his back story about growing up on a farm and takes 1 point in profession farming. He never would have done that under a controlled point buy or even being able to place his scores.
Try it, its fun.
At the time, point buy (15 or 20), plus a single +2 on any one stat that does not yet have a racial modifier.
Used several times before: 7 times (4d6, drop lowest), drop lowest.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Roll for ability scores? People still DO that!?
Accept no substitute! I chalk it up to a healthy bit of nostalgia and personal preference, but I have never liked point-assignments in any format. Rolling up characters is one of the funnest parts of the creation process for me.
Deadlands had a character creation process that I absolutely adored. Your stats were based on cards that you drew from a standard deck of playing cards. Fun times.
3d6 for all, move them around and take from one to give to another, roll a whole new set if not happy. Add racial adjustments.
Opportunity to increase ability scores through play. Yes, the heroes do not start out actually that heroic, brilliant or great all round. Shucks, they even have weaknesses. I'm so embarrassed.
4d6, reroll 1s, drop lowest. Six times. If not happy the DM can re-roll the entire set for you. Assign, then apply racial adjustments. This is how my old group (in between groups right now) usually does it.
When I DM? Depends on the power level of the campaign I wanna run. In general, I tend to run campaigns that can be brutal, but thats another topic. My most usual tactic is thus. Roll 4d6, re-roll 1s, drop lowest. Do this five times. Enjoy a freebie 18 so the players don't b+%&$ about bad scores. I can re-roll one number below 10, or the whole set of six scores, but you're stuck with it, which means possibility of no 18.
I've been waiting for a group where I can do this OLD SCHOOL, like I used to play when I was a kid. 3d6, assign in order, no re-rolls whatsoever.
If given a choice by the GM I will always roll stats. Sometimes I get awesome statts, sometimes I get lame stats. Usually I get pretty average stats. When I get awesome stats I try to take that as an opportuny to explore a unique character instead of creating a super-optimized behemoth. When I rolled up my witch and the dice came up with an 18, a 16 and a 15, I put the 18 in int, but I put the 16 in charisma and built the character as a flamboyant party dude. As a bonus he works out well as the party "face" but charisma doesn't do much else for a witch.
My favorite character of the past decade is one whose stats equalled a 16 point buy.