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so here's a thought experiment. take one witches cat familiar, add a ton of buff spells (Transformation giving most benifits, then add reduce person [qualifies because of shared spells], mage armour, false life, ward hex. not in that order.) for this we'll work at caster level 11 (min for transformation.)
that gives kitty a healthy (4 size 11 bab 5 dex) +20 per attack on its claw claw bite, and an ac of (4 size 10 natural 4 mage armour 5 dex 3 ward hex) 38 [35 after first hit]. add to that DR 10 (celestial or fiendish template) and you've got an accurate, hard to hit and moderately resiliant little cat there. catch: each attack deals 1 point of subdual damage, which is the minimum possible.
here's the clever bit.
cast frostbite. now kitty is doing a total of 1d6+12 damage per hit, which also causes fatigue with no save. that's 3d6+36 damage a round, without taking up any of your actions. as you're a witch you can still rely on your hexes for your combat, so turning your familiar into a glass cannon like this will cost maybe 2 actions (1 for transformation, familiar moves into target's square [acrobatics or stealth to avoid AoO], then 1 for frostbite [familiar makes full attack against target, weakening it and fatiguing it until either it's attacked [most CR 11 monsters will need a 16 to hit with their primary attack. iterative attacks need not even apply])
before anyone starts this is a thought experiment, not a recommended stratigy. a witch using her familiar like this reaks of desperation, but... what do you think? are there any varients you think would be more viable? any witch spells i've overlooked that would make this work, or even combos that could make it good?
EDIT: i forgot to add: Rime spell on the frostbite. now every attack entangles, no save.
Uh, do all that same stuff on a Psuedodragon who has 5' reach and let him put everyone to sleep.
I like it, though I'd do it to something that could fly, just for the added mobility.
the reason for the cat is that it gets claw claw bite, allowing the fastest distribution of the frostbite touches.
i'd like someone to confirm this for me but at a glance it looks like kitty could take out a young red dragon singlehanded with this build:
first attack hits on a 2 or better, later attacks hitting on -1 or better (Entangled + Fatigued = -6 dexterity). kitty gets hit on natural 20s, and if that's after the first round then thats even without ward. true strike may prove problematic, but shield may as well not even be there. as to how long it would take: cold vulnerability means that each hit deals 1d6+11*1.5, +1. all subdual, of course, but on the assumption that all of kitty's attacks hit (not unreasonable) and that all damage rolls are 3 (a bit below average) then every attack deals 22 damage, for 66 damage a round. the young red is down in 2 rounds, with no further intervention. by the freaking familiar. it's only cr 10, so it's probably a mook, but an unconcious dragon is good particularly if there are any gladiatorial arenas or wizardly manageries in the area.
EDIT: just throw fly or overland flight onto kitty and you have a flying familiar. that simple.
RAW technical problem: Familiar does not have it's own BAB - it specifically uses it's master BAB instead. Master's BAB could be boosted to +11 with transformation cast on master but no spell can be cast with transformation active. And frostbite cast priopr to transformation will be wasted: deliver touch spell feature specifically says that touch spell held by familiar dissipate when it's master casts another spell.
Also I think that AC calculation is off by 2 points. Maybe you missed a buff? Currently it adds to 36 with ward, 33 without.
RAW technical problem: Familiar does not have it's own BAB - it specifically uses it's master BAB instead. Master's BAB could be boosted to +11 with transformation cast on master but no spell can be cast with transformation active. And frostbite cast priopr to transformation will be wasted: deliver touch spell feature specifically says that touch spell held by familiar dissipate when it's master casts another spell.
Also I think that AC calculation is off by 2 points. Maybe you missed a buff? Currently it adds to 36 with ward, 33 without.
before starting this thread i did a rules question thread on transformation and familiars, with the unanimous result that the familiar's BAB would equal its hit dice, which is the caster's hit dice. and you're right, my math seems to be a bit off for AC, thanks.
if you're in the mood you can always add heroism to the buff list, upping the attack bonus to +22. overkill, but still fun.
before starting this thread i did a rules question thread on transformation and familiars, with the unanimous result that the familiar's BAB would equal its hit dice, which is the caster's hit dice.
Looking purely RAW:
Attacks: Use the master's base attack bonus, as calculated from all his classes. Use the familiar's Dexterity or Strength modifier, whichever is greater, to calculate the familiar's melee attack bonus with natural weapons.
If you use share spells to cast transformation on familiar it will get enhancement bonuses to Strength, Dexterity and Constitution and +4 natural armor bonus[/url] and familiar's BAB will equal it's HD. The problem is that due to bold part familiar's BAB is irrelevant in the same way as it's Constitution is irrelevant for it's hp - it specificially uses master's total BAB and half the master's hp.
Of course allowing familiar to use transformation-boosted BAB is sensible house-rule and may be even closer to RAI. Myself I allow using familiar's own BAB and hp when higher (might be important in case of Improved Familiars).
Also, now rereading transformation I noticed that the familiar won't get +10 natural armor, regretfully. transformation grants natural armor bonus to AC which would not stack with natural armor bonus calculated from master's level. I always thought that transformation granted enhancement bonus to AC, which would improve "normal" natural armor bonus but it is not the case.
before starting this thread i did a rules question thread on transformation and familiars, with the unanimous result that the familiar's BAB would equal its hit dice, which is the caster's hit dice.Looking purely RAW:
Attacks: Use the master's base attack bonus, as calculated from all his classes. Use the familiar's Dexterity or Strength modifier, whichever is greater, to calculate the familiar's melee attack bonus with natural weapons.If you use share spells to cast transformation on familiar it will get enhancement bonuses to Strength, Dexterity and Constitution and +4 natural armor bonus[/url] and familiar's BAB will equal it's HD. The problem is that due to bold part familiar's BAB is irrelevant in the same way as it's Constitution is irrelevant for it's hp - it specificially uses master's total BAB and half the master's hp.
Of course allowing familiar to use transformation-boosted BAB is sensible house-rule and may be even closer to RAI. Myself I allow using familiar's own BAB and hp when higher (might be important in case of Improved Familiars).
Also, now rereading transformation I noticed that the familiar won't get +10 natural armor, regretfully. transformation grants natural armor bonus to AC which would not stack with natural armor bonus calculated from master's level. I always thought that transformation granted enhancement bonus to AC, which would improve "normal" natural armor bonus but it is not the case.
How dare you actually read the rules! ;)
on a note, the familar's bonus to natural armour from caster level is not technically a bonus, it's an adjustment. i think that techicality would allow you to get away with it, but this build is looking like it'd be made around DM discression.You can always use greater heroism to buff the familiar's attack if it really came to it, and lets face it if you lose both the +ac and +bab from transformation then (on the assumption that you'd want to try this without it's main strong point) swapping transformation for greater heroism seems like the way to go.
so would the bonus to natural armour stack with an adjustment?
How dare you actually read the rules! ;)
Sorry :(
on a note, the familar's bonus to natural armour from caster level is not technically a bonus, it's an adjustment. i think that techicality would allow you to get away with it, but this build is looking like it'd be made around DM discression.
(...)
so would the bonus to natural armour stack with an adjustment?
Interesting question. The rules state that this adjustment is in addition to *existing* natural armor bonus. While the natural armor bonus from transformation is not preexisting natural armor it still seems to be treated as regular natural armor (no other note) so it is highly possible that they will stack. So we return to +10 natural armor bonus.
(comparing the wording of familiar's natural armor adjustemnt with 3.5 srd): slight change wording, but irrelevant for that matter.
As a side note: I think that I houserule that transformation grants enahancement to natural armor so casters with existing natural armor can benefit from that bonus anyway.
so on the assumption that both natural armour and BAB work (just for the sake of arguement in this case, as i'd rather keep this in general discussion than have it moved to the rules thread) what other touch spells would you have psyco-kitty delivering? Frostbite is good as it allows for a lot of touches, scales nicely with level, allows no saves or spell resistance, and metamagics well.
Vampiric touch is good because it further buffs the kitty's survivability, especially important for a witch's familiar.
persistant chill touch is good against undead, as it forces them to make a lot of save or lose saves per round (6 to be exact)
any others that spring to mind?
Vampiric touch is useful due to temporary hit points gained from it but unlike frostbite/chill touch has only one charge so it does not gets better in hands, er, paws of kitty than any other familiar with less impressive number of natural attacks.
Force punch for a similarly familiar-focused wizard would be comic. While, like vampiric touch it does not benefit from kitty's multiple attacks it should look great to see kitty's gentlest scratch sending much larger opponent knocked back several feet.
I remember one 3.5 spell that allowed for 1 touch per level bestowing a negative level on a failed save (enervating touch or something like that) - GMs that allow 3.5 stuff in their games should be wary of such combo.
If the party has Druid he might augment your familiar with bloody claws to make your kitty's freezing/chilling spree even more devastating, especially against multiple opponents (each will get 1 nonlethal, bleed 1 and effects of either frostbite or chill touch.
if you had frostbite or chill touch as a spell-like ability (and thus could activate it without losing held charges) could you have kitty hitting with both spells at once? cos that would rock.
EDIT: force punch is now a must have for my wizard. your idea is an image of fantastic beauty.