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I have her personality, and I'd like help picking feats and archetypes that fit it. She's for a homebrew campaign setting that's heavily inspired by Eberron. First, here's what she's like:
Personality wise, she likes to be edgy. She enjoys load music, good food and drink, and the company of pretty girls (she's 100% homosexual). She loves pointing out when people are being idiots, practical jokes, and bawdy humans. She's mouthy, witty, sexy, slightly roguish, and vulgar.
She believes that partying, fornication, vulgarity, witty remarks, and the like are not immoral in any way, and therefore feels no guilt in taking part in it. She's be a bit roguish, but she doesn't do anything that's illegal. She may enjoy being edgy, but she believes heavily in the rule of law (though she does believe that the law should be written in such a way to allow as much individual freedom as possible while keeping people safe from those who would prey upon them), and she follows the law to the letter. She's also smart enough to know when not to be vulgar or mouthy, and shows proper etiquette when it's called for. She's deeply committed to the cause of good, and has a special hatred of corrupt government officials, slavery, and sexual assault. She hates corrupt officials and slavers on general principle, and has had some... personal experience with sexual assault (her sister, not her).
She's 8th level at the moment, and I'm interested in both core and third party feats and archetypes that would fit her. I'm thinking of making her main weapon a scythe, but I haven't finalized that decision yet.
Also, what do you guys think of her personality? I love the idea of a Paladin who's confident, spunky, clever, and sexy while still being Lawful Good. I also imagine her as rather seductive when she wants to be. Lawful Good may mean obeying the law, but it's perfectly possible to be edgy and roguish without ever doing something illegal, and that's what she does.
if you would like to have more alignment flexibility, both the shadowbane inquisitor(complete adventurer) and the gray guard (complete champion I believe) both spring to mind. Shadowbane Inquisitor is one of my favorites. I believe there is also some literature out there on paladins of Shelyn which expresses there love of, well, love.
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I like your personality concept! And the fact that you're not playing the same old dumb paladin...
Feats: Unsanctioned Knowledge (?) from Ultimate Combat will let her get exciting bard spells. If you want a reach weapon, I might try a Spring Attack build; one of my players is playing a fighter with a naginata and Spring Attack and he is completely unstoppable.
Weapons: Scythe sounds fun, but why did she choose it? If you're going for an intelligent/roguish paladin, I might go for a longbow-type build. Because sniping is fun!
Archetypes: I am a huge fan of the Sacred Servant, mainly for the domain and because I like high-magic paladins. If she worships an appropriate deity, I can see her having the Luck or Trickery domain.
Assuming you've played this character in a campaign already and her current stats aren't negotiable, it would help if we knew her ability scores/archetypes/skillset/feats so we could suggest things that complement those.
if you would like to have more alignment flexibility, both the shadowbane inquisitor(complete adventurer) and the gray guard (complete champion I believe) both spring to mind. Shadowbane Inquisitor is one of my favorites. I believe there is also some literature out there on paladins of Shelyn which expresses there love of, well, love.
I remember the Grey Guard. I liked it, but it doesn't fit her. She's very much a classic Paladin in that she doesn't lie or cheat, she respects legitimate authority (unless it's corrupt, in which case she opposes it with whatever legal methods are available), she helps those in need, and she fights evil wherever it rears it's head. Her love of partying, mouthiness, sexuality, and the like are neither illegal nor harmful to others, and aren't signs of alignment flexibility.
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Didn't someone already do this?
Well, except the physical description.
I like your personality concept! And the fact that you're not playing the same old dumb paladin...
Feats: Unsanctioned Knowledge (?) from Ultimate Combat will let her get exciting bard spells. If you want a reach weapon, I might try a Spring Attack build; one of my players is playing a fighter with a naginata and Spring Attack and he is completely unstoppable.
Weapons: Scythe sounds fun, but why did she choose it? If you're going for an intelligent/roguish paladin, I might go for a longbow-type build. Because sniping is fun!
Archetypes: I am a huge fan of the Sacred Servant, mainly for the domain and because I like high-magic paladins. If she worships an appropriate deity, I can see her having the Luck or Trickery domain.
Assuming you've played this character in a campaign already and her current stats aren't negotiable, it would help if we knew her ability scores/archetypes/skillset/feats so we could suggest things that complement those.
Thanks for the suggestions.
I've decided that I definitely will go with the scythe. I can't really explain it. It just feels right. I do imagine her as somewhat dark (dark does not have to mean evil or non-good) and seductive, and the scythe does seem to fit that, though I think the sheer coolness is also a factor.
She's a new character I'm making, so she has no feats, archetypes, or skills yet (that's what this thread is to discuss), but I have assigned her ability scores (though they could be changed if they don't look good to you guys):
Str 18
Dex 12
Con 13
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 16
I used 25 point buy for these with +2 Cha at first level for being human and +1 Str at 4th and 8th level.
Also, what magical items should I buy? I have 33,000 GP. I'd like Mithril Full Plate, but is there any point in a non-acrobatic melee Paladin buying that? What about adamantine? I'm also considering Field Plate. Is that any good?
Didn't someone already do this?
Well, except the physical description.
What was that?
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What was that?Didn't someone already do this?
Well, except the physical description.
You must absolutely drop everything, get on Netflix, and stream that movie now!
And the answer is: build the character you're talking about. Except they used a Barbie doll and a Mac, not Pathfinder rules ;-)
What was that?Didn't someone already do this?
Well, except the physical description.
You must absolutely drop everything, get on Netflix, and stream that movie now!
And the answer is: build the character you're talking about. Except they used a Barbie doll and a Mac, not Pathfinder rules ;-)
She was a Paladin?
I just really want to do a Paladin like this. I don't see why you can't be dark, edgy, sexy, and roguish and Lawful Good at the same time.
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What was that?Didn't someone already do this?
Well, except the physical description.
You must absolutely drop everything, get on Netflix, and stream that movie now!
And the answer is: build the character you're talking about. Except they used a Barbie doll and a Mac, not Pathfinder rules ;-)
She was a Paladin?
I just really want to do a Paladin like this. I don't see why you can't be dark, edgy, sexy, and roguish and Lawful Good at the same time.
Your description just struck me as being Lisa. She is everything you described, but she only used her powers to make two geeky dudes realize their potential and have some self confidence. She even slayed a dragon (in a manner of speaking) by taking on one of the character's douchebag brother.
I would watch it, and tell me what you think of Lisa as a character. Keep in mind that it is a John Hughes '80s teen movie, so there is a bit of over the top-ness to it.
I've thought up how her armor looks. It's either full plate or field plate, made of steel, mithril, or adamantium, but what I can say with certainty is that it's lacquered, and the lacquer is black. She wears a dark purple scarf and sash with this armor, and this armor, though somewhat formfitting (at least, as formfitting as metal plates can possibly be), covers all of her vital areas. She likes sexy, revealing clothing, especially in dark colors, but that's outside of combat. In combat, she covers everything up.
Your description just struck me as being Lisa. She is everything you described, but she only used her powers to make two geeky dudes realize their potential and have some self confidence. She even slayed a dragon (in a manner of speaking) by taking on one of the character's douchebag brother.What was that?Didn't someone already do this?
Well, except the physical description.
You must absolutely drop everything, get on Netflix, and stream that movie now!
And the answer is: build the character you're talking about. Except they used a Barbie doll and a Mac, not Pathfinder rules ;-)
She was a Paladin?
I just really want to do a Paladin like this. I don't see why you can't be dark, edgy, sexy, and roguish and Lawful Good at the same time.
I see. I just saw the page, and thought "what the hell is this?".
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I like the stats, and with a scythe high Str is definitely a must. If you take Power Attack and Vital Strike, you should be able to put out a lot of damage. Shield of Swings is useful for all two-handed fighters, as well.
Scythes definitely have a coolness factor.
I'd suggest getting a backup weapon (maybe a masterwork longsword) just in case you end up fighting in a small space where reach will be difficult.
As to items: A belt of constitution helps if you plan on being in the front lines. And what about a mithral breastplate instead of full plate? It's cheaper (meaning you can put more enchantments on it) and gives you much less of an armor check (you won't have many skills, so you should try to get the most out of the ones you have).
And I'd definitely recommend Sacred Servant now, because you would put your high Wis to use with domain powers, and your high Cha to use with the bonus spells a domain grants.
You could also consider taking the Oath Against Savagery from Ultimate Magic; it gives bonuses against "evil humanoids" and you can extend your reach even further... 15 ft. reach with your scythe. Plus haste as a bonus spell.
The human favored class option can give you energy resistance (APG page 23). I think it'd be cool flavor if you could walk through fire. Edgy, and you'd be able to save orphans from burning buildings. Especially if your DM is like me...
I like the stats, and with a scythe high Str is definitely a must. If you take Power Attack and Vital Strike, you should be able to put out a lot of damage. Shield of Swings is useful for all two-handed fighters, as well.
Scythes definitely have a coolness factor.
I'd suggest getting a backup weapon (maybe a masterwork longsword) just in case you end up fighting in a small space where reach will be difficult.
As to items: A belt of constitution helps if you plan on being in the front lines. And what about a mithral breastplate instead of full plate? It's cheaper (meaning you can put more enchantments on it) and gives you much less of an armor check (you won't have many skills, so you should try to get the most out of the ones you have).
And I'd definitely recommend Sacred Servant now, because you would put your high Wis to use with domain powers, and your high Cha to use with the bonus spells a domain grants.
You could also consider taking the Oath Against Savagery from Ultimate Magic; it gives bonuses against "evil humanoids" and you can extend your reach even further... 15 ft. reach with your scythe. Plus haste as a bonus spell.
The human favored class option can give you energy resistance (APG page 23). I think it'd be cool flavor if you could walk through fire. Edgy, and you'd be able to save orphans from burning buildings. Especially if your DM is like me...
Scythes aren't reach weapons. Their reach is 5 feet. I was planning to make my back-up a short sword and a boot dagger. However, I do want heavy armor, adamantium heavy armor, or mithril heavy armor. I want to have her covered up in battle.
The archetype and favored class option suggestion are appreciated. I like the idea of fire resistance. Power attack and vital strike are will does. What about the cleave tree? Will it be of any use? Should I take Improved Critical? I qualify, and with a scythe that would hurt. 19/20 x 4 critical? Yes, please.
As for the belt of constitution, that's a good idea. She wears a purple sash with her armor, but is there any reason a belt of constitution can't be a purple sash? I can't think of one.
She'll be lucky if her powers are not stripped by her deity for her lustful ways.
Oh, this makes me head hurt.
Always nice to see something a little different from the boring, cliche paladins that I've been seeing lately. Anyway, if you got something that needs help with, just ask. I'm not that good with off-hand help, but anything specific and I would see what I can do.
@Superslayer: Who said the Paladin was lustful? (Lust and Seduction are not synonymous despite the close relation) And who said all good-aligned gods are boring traditionalists who force their followers to be celibate and chaste? Hell, one of the Empyreal Lords is a deity/demi-god of Sexuality!!
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Tell me the concept doesn't scream Lisa! I'd love to see this in play. I'd totally work with it as a DM.I think Lisa is maybe more a sorceress than a Paladin, but it is definitely in the ballpark.
To be honest I thought of Murphy from the Dresden Files books.
I always thought of Murphy as a "paladin" paladin. I guess she's loosened up a bit in the latter books.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I always thought of Murphy as a "paladin" paladin. I guess she's loosened up a bit in the latter books.
Tell me the concept doesn't scream Lisa! I'd love to see this in play. I'd totally work with it as a DM.I think Lisa is maybe more a sorceress than a Paladin, but it is definitely in the ballpark.
To be honest I thought of Murphy from the Dresden Files books.
Yeah, she's definitely a paladin. But she's Sexy, Confident, and Edgy... maybe a touch seductive in a quiet way ;)
I haven't read the last book yet.
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She'll be lucky if her powers are not stripped by her deity for her lustful ways.
Go re-read the write up for Shelyn in Pathfinder AP#50.
So, this concept is not, automatically, going to fall.
Shelyn most certainly has paladins, so the player might want to consider a Glaive instead of a Scythe.
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She'll be lucky if her powers are not stripped by her deity for her lustful ways.
And yet another reason Shelyn is the god to take for this character. Or at least thats the god I wold pick for this character. This how ever it might have me looking more at the glave then the scyth. That choice is still up to the paladin if they want to use a different weapon they can.
Sacred Servant : Worship Shelyn
Domain : Charm
If you use traits : Charming is one that really fits the character concept. Along with Inner Beauty if you worship Shelyn.
Feet's : I use feats for combat effectiveness and use skills and traits for character them.
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I always thought of Murphy as a "paladin" paladin. I guess she's loosened up a bit in the latter books.
Tell me the concept doesn't scream Lisa! I'd love to see this in play. I'd totally work with it as a DM.I think Lisa is maybe more a sorceress than a Paladin, but it is definitely in the ballpark.
To be honest I thought of Murphy from the Dresden Files books.
Yeah, she's definitely a paladin. But she's Sexy, Confident, and Edgy... maybe a touch seductive in a quiet way ;)
I haven't read the last book yet.
It's crazy. All I'll say. Total mind eff.
And, on topic, I think Lord Frye has the right of it, if you're playing in Golarion. And I think some god and goddesses would allow a little bit of leeway with the whole "law/chaos" thing (not Erastil, to be sure, but some) if everything else was properly good and orderly.
Shelyn is NG. A paladin of Shelyn would emphasize the lawful aspects of Shelyn.
A paladins LG is different than anyone else's LG. They are exemplars of both lawfulness and goodness.
A little bit of chaos, aka seduction, makes about as much sense as just a little bit of torture and murder. They oppose both chaos AND evil.
Play a paladin of freedom from Unearthed Arcana. It's on d20srd.org.
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Do tell me where seduction is classified as an act of Chaos. Because I have NEVER heard of such.
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I agree. Where is seduction an act of chaos ?
Why couldn't paladins be lustful (not breaking any laws of course)?
It's more of a christian heritage.
Now it's all a matter of personal preference anyway. IF DM agrees then it's all fine.
I would agree... Just to change from the usual Paladin cliche.
Lustful and Seductive are not the same. The paladin can use her charms on others if she wants to, but that doesn't mean she would always have the urge to do so. It also doesn't mean that she's always successful (from a meta-game perspective, it depends on how well the dice are rolled :D)
Perhaps I thought that it was common sense that tricking someone into lusting after you on the false pretense that the feeling was mutual so that you get what you want was chaotic. I guess it isn't.
Also, http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/demon/succubus
It's like people forgot that alingments should be indicators, not uber-strict codes that will yell "YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG" unless you stick to a narrow view of WHAT the actual alignment entails, the character's actual PERSONALITY be damned. Also, using a succubus as an example is not very effective if you ask me, when those are spiritual beings that embody the SIN of lust. And like I said, again, lust and seduction are NOT the same despite being closely related...
It's not so much that suduction seems chaotic (at least to me), it's that the personality seems more concerned with personal freedom in society than with society's rules.
Your character acts the same either way, but a paladin would, be more concerned with people fitting law, than law fitting people.
The flexibility of mind that redoing law to fit freedom requires would conflict, for me, with the need to have an inflexible Code of Conduct.
In my opinion.
I do agree that it would give a strong role-play option, if the DM agreed with it.
But I wouldn't try to force the GM to agree with my opinion that this sort of paladin was main-stream.
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Wanting boobs does not make you an embodiment of chaos. You are following the law of the wild in that you see something you are attracted to and seduce it in order to perform a reproductive act.
Which is to say, lawful. Since it's a law.
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+1 to Trinam.
Also, the Empyreal Lord of Sexuality is Neutral Good. She is also a goddess of freedom despite not being Chaotic.
http://www.pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Arshea
Wanting boobs does not make you an embodiment of chaos. You are following the law of the wild in that you see something you are attracted to and seduce it in order to perform a reproductive act.
Which is to say, lawful. Since it's a law.
A quote from a player whose characters I enjoy:
"I practice capture and release. I think it improves the gene pool."
But it doesn't sound lawful.
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It's like people forgot that alingments should be indicators, not uber-strict codes that will yell "YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG" unless you stick to a narrow view of WHAT the actual alignment entails, the character's actual PERSONALITY be damned. Also, using a succubus as an example is not very effective if you ask me, when those are spiritual beings that embody the SIN of lust. And like I said, again, lust and seduction are NOT the same despite being closely related...
I agree that lust and seduction are different. Lust is fine. Seduction is not Lawful though.
act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth)
Perhaps my definition of seduction is different from everyone else. I see it as deceitful manipulation into getting someone to do something for you under false pretenses.
If you define seduction as "trying to get laid", then yea, sure. It's not against the Code.
Do note that Calistria's portfolio includes "Lust" though. And deception. And charm. Shelyn's portfolio includes "Love". Take that as you will.
But enough about that. Everything that would be said has been said about that particular point, and I regret derailing the thread.
Kelsey, check out this: Paladin of Freedom. If this is Golarion, while it technically isn't allowed (JJ has repeated that the only paladins in Golarion are LG ones, and that they oppose chaos as much as evil), it would allow for no arguments about the character concept. Also, seems like it'd be a better fit anyways.
Whether it fits or not is not the point, dude. It's the fact that Kelsey wants to try out a Paladin who breaks off from the cliche versions we see every darn day. THAT is why I like this concept so much, and I also like it because it doesn't go against the Paladin code despite what some say.
A very interesting character concept, but I too believe it has a chaotic element. Of course, resisting the temptations of acting chaotic give the LG character some (very real) pathos...
I have her personality, and I'd like help picking feats and archetypes that fit it. She's for a homebrew campaign setting that's heavily inspired by Eberron. First, here's what she's like:
** spoiler omitted **
She's 8th level at the moment, and I'm interested in both core and third party feats and archetypes that would fit her. I'm thinking of making her main weapon a scythe, but I haven't finalized that decision yet.
Also, what do you guys think of her personality? I love the idea of a...
ohoohohohohoh thirdparty feats.
Check out here for d20pfsrd's collection.
Open Design (I think?) has the Divine Favor series. They look into Paladins in one of their books, and provide a few feats. I have not purchased that book though.
The thing about scythe using paladins is that you want Improved Critical ASAP. So that should be your 7th level feat.
I think that the Cleave line of feats would fit the scythe image as well.
So...power attack, cleave, greater cleave, improved critical, and maybe Word of Healing.
Perhaps I thought that it was common sense that tricking someone into lusting after you on the false pretense that the feeling was mutual so that you get what you want was chaotic. I guess it isn't.
Also, http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/demon/succubus
You have hit on a real problem here.
What does "to seduce" actually mean? The primary definition of Sedution (to lead astray, as from duty, rectitude, or the like; corrupt) is not just "Chaotic" it is actively evil.Conterwise, is "free love" (which is what I think is actualy being discussed with the Paldin concept) too "chaotic" for the paladin code of conduct?.
[off topic thought]
Back in college, there was a story in the lit book about a man who was robbed and left tied up in such a way that he was limited in movement but not locked down.
He ended up joining a traveling show, living quite well and building a new life for himself as a proformer, showing the crowds how he could get around in his bonds.
A jealous rival freed him, causing him to lose his place, friends, and career.
That's how I see a paladin.
His limits define him.
And are what makes the class interesting to play.
[/off topic thought]
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While she didn't "seduce", we did have a 1/4 Succubus therapist actress Paladin of Shelyn in our Council of Thieves game who slept with a lot of people to help them experience moments of beauty. She refused to repeat with the same person out of worry they might become fixated on her, as she had no plans on entering a long-term relationship, and she didn't sleep with those of an evil nature unless she felt they were on the path to redemption. She herself was rescued from a life of prostitution to become a paladin by the Wiscrani high priestess of Shelyn.
Those who find such paladins to be inappropriate say what you may, but this Paladin managed to redeem / help work out psychological problems a large number of Council of Thieves NPCs who I won't list here due to spoilers (granted, her therapy was mostly not sex). This was greatly in keeping with Shelyn's mandate to spare life and let love and beauty come from even unlikely souls.
Anyway, her build (two-handed weapon) is similar to the OP's, so to the OP, here's what Laeni looked like at level 11 according to our campaign wiki:
Has slept with approximately 1% of the population of Westcrown, apparently. This list currently includes: Crunkfrey, Calseinica, Stav, Thatteus Bard
Laeniaxis
Paladin 11
Str 22=18+4
Dex 15
Con 16
Int 12
Wis 14
Cha 28=24+4
HP: 126
AC: 28 (touch 14, flat-footed 27)
CMB +19
CMD 36
Fort +23
Ref +18
Will +22
Attacks: +2 Greatsword +20/+15/+10 2d6+11, 17-20x2 critical
Traits: Attractive, Child of Infamy
Feats: Fiendish Heritage, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Greatsword), Furious Focus, Improved Critical, Dazing Assault (she takes -5 to hit, anyone she hits must make DC 21 fort or be dazed)
Specials: Smite Evil 4/day, Lay on Hands 5d6 14/day, Channel Positive Energy, Divine Bond, Aura of Resolve, Aura of Justice
Mercies:Sickened, Diseased,Cursed
Spells:5 1sts per day, 3 2nds per day, 3 3rds per day
Skills: Diplomacy +23(+24) (11 ranks), Handle Animal +13 (1 rank), Sense Motive +12 (7 ranks), Bluff +9(+10), Know[Dungeoneering]+2, Know[Engineering] +2, Know[History] +2, Know[Nobility] +5 (1 rank), Know[Religion] +7 (3 ranks), Perform [Act] +23 (10 ranks+1 trait)
Items:+3 Fullplate, +4 Str Belt, Rod of Splendor, +2 Greatsword, Wayfinder and +1 insight to AC stone (resonant power of +2 insight to CMB and CMD), Cloak of Resistance +1, Ring of Protection +2, +2 amulet of natural armor, +3 cloak of resistance
7106.38 gp
219341 xp
Oh dude, that's brilliant. A paladin that gets around, with Disease removing Mercy.
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The problem I see here is you have 33,000g and you will spend it all on your armor being a special material if you go the route you want. Thats fine, but from a standpoint of utility it may be advisable to go with a Breastplate or take away the special material goal you have...
If I were you...
+1 Light Fortification Breastplate (Adamantine is 10,000g)
+1 Keen Scythe (Add Elemental Burst next chance)
+1 Ring of Protection
+1 Amulet of Natural Armor
Handy Haversack
Belt of Physical Might (+2) (I'd put it in Dex and Con)
Ioun Torch
Change your Wisdom and Intelligence scores. You don't need high Wisdom as a paladin...your saves will be fine.
Pick up Combat Expertise and use it. You should for the most part be fine with hitting the enemy and having an ability that allows you to turn on or off extra AC will help in situations that need it since you seem hellbent on not carrying a shield. And it is a pre-req for a lot of other feats that aren't bad.
Those are the only tips I have...but if my math is right those magic items should leave you with enough gold to buy some potions or maybe a wand...remember you can use ANY wand that is on your spell list even if you aren't capable of casting that spell at the level you are at.
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Oh dude, that's brilliant. A paladin that gets around, with Disease removing Mercy.
Yep, she also specifically went around to brothels and other places to use her Mercy when she had extra LoH uses for the day. We had a second Paladin of Shelyn (Crunkfrey, a half-orc, as mentioned in the list of people she slept with) who ran the temple's hospice with her help. Disease-immunity is helpful in a variety of ways.
For Laeni, being immune to disease herself and able to cure STDs helped cut out one of the big 'problem' aspects with having many partners.
Now she did, as QXL99 suggested, have pathos as she tried to channel her grandmother's essence into something that was LG and in keeping with Shelyn. People often asked her "Why is it that someone with Demon blood would follow a NG deity and be more lawful than usual for that religion." Her response was that Shelyn and the strict vows of the Paladin give her the discipline she needs to channel all that baggage from her heritage into something good--that is, if she hadn't been a Paladin, it would be harder to be Good-aligned altogether.
If seduction is a chaotic act and nonlawful, someone needs to dial Asmodues and tell him the Whore Queens are a black mark on Hell's shining LAWFUL reputation.
Whelp, seduction must be evil then :-D
As a general statement, I'm okay with these concepts so long as they're done respectfully, and not by That Creepy Guy (TM) at the table. I've been at those tables, and it's uncomfortable as heck.
Just do it respectfully.
And yeah, it /is/ trading one trope for another. But, it's a fun way to say hey, a paladin isn't just one thing.
Laeniaxis, Paladin of Shelyn is a very nicley done paladin build.
It sounds like she played well at the table, too.