What are the dragons of Tian like? Do they have a spell-casting progression? (I hope.)
I admit I've always been disappointed by the Oriental Dragons as presented by D&D, primarily because unlike the Chromatic and Metallic dragons, they lack a spell-casting progression. Seeing as the Eastern dragons are oft-to-usually portrayed as wise mystical spirits and potent embodiments of nature, I've always felt spell-casting is even more fitting for them than for Western style drakes like the classic D&D ones (except the Golds, which used to be Eastern-style dragons.)
It might be cool if they drew from the Druid or Cleric List more than the Wizard/Sorcerer.
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What are the dragons of Tian like? Do they have a spell-casting progression? (I hope.)
I admit I've always been disappointed by the Oriental Dragons as presented by D&D, primarily because unlike the Chromatic and Metallic dragons, they lack a spell-casting progression. Seeing as the Eastern dragons are oft-to-usually portrayed as wise mystical spirits and potent embodiments of nature, I've always felt spell-casting is even more fitting for them than for Western style drakes like the classic D&D ones (except the Golds, which used to be Eastern-style dragons.)
It might be cool if they drew from the Druid or Cleric List more than the Wizard/Sorcerer.
Full details will be coming in the Dragon Empires Gazetteer (from the flavor side) and Bestiary 3 (from the rules side), but a few quick previews:
1) They do have spellcasting progressions like all other true dragons.
2) Their age categories work the same as other true dragons.
3) There are five of them; alignments are LG, LE, N, LE, CE
4) They represent the balance between law and chaos and good and evil.
5) They're a LOT more involved with humanoid races than the dragons of the Inner Sea are.
Hmm.
I was just reading/skimming another thread regarding an AP focused on Dragons, and a lot of good reasoning for why they (the Paizo staff) have thought about doing an AP with this theme, but also why (ultimately) they haven't. On Golarion, dragons are rare, and doing a Dragon-Focused AP would present some problems.
Neil Spicer, Jason Nelson, and donato had interesting ideas, thoughts, outlines on the subject (and Wes chimed in about their ideas).
But, here, in this thread about the dragons of Tian Xia it is said (by James Jacobs no less) that these dragons are a lot more involved in the lives of the humanoid races of the region.
Maybe that "Dragon focused AP" has more utility in Tian Xia? (I know, I know we have Jade Regent going on right now... but a (possible) return to this land/region/continent (after a year or two) might be worthwhile). Especially if it *can* support a Dragon-Focused AP.
Just my two coppers.
~Dean
Hmm.
I was just reading/skimming another thread regarding an AP focused on Dragons, and a lot of good reasoning for why they (the Paizo staff) have thought about doing an AP with this theme, but also why (ultimately) they haven't. On Golarion, dragons are rare, and doing a Dragon-Focused AP would present some problems.
Neil Spicer, Jason Nelson, and donato had interesting ideas, thoughts, outlines on the subject (and Wes chimed in about their ideas).
But, here, in this thread about the dragons of Tian Xia it is said (by James Jacobs no less) that these dragons are a lot more involved in the lives of the humanoid races of the region.
Maybe that "Dragon focused AP" has more utility in Tian Xia? (I know, I know we have Jade Regent going on right now... but a (possible) return to this land/region/continent (after a year or two) might be worthwhile). Especially if it *can* support a Dragon-Focused AP.
Just my two coppers.
~Dean
That's an interesting idea. Let's see how the Tian dragons turn out...
Full details will be coming in the Dragon Empires Gazetteer (from the flavor side) and Bestiary 3 (from the rules side), but a few quick previews:
On a related note, whatever happened to the "other known septs" of dragons featured in the AP #4 article Dragons of Golarion? Have the abomination dragons and their ilk been retconned out of existence?
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Creative Director
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On a related note, whatever happened to the "other known septs" of dragons featured in the AP #4 article Dragons of Golarion? Have the abomination dragons and their ilk been retconned out of existence?
Full details will be coming in the Dragon Empires Gazetteer (from the flavor side) and Bestiary 3 (from the rules side), but a few quick previews:
Not everything we "threw at the wall" in the first few Pathifnders ended up sticking. We were building the world at the same time we were building adventure paths, and didn't really have one person overseeing the whole thing.
And yes, that does mean that some things we put in early volumes of Pathfinder ended up not sticking around. One of those is the "other known septs," including the use of the word "sept" itself in that manner, to describe various types of dragons. Remember, at the time we were generating that content, we weren't even aware that things would be shifting so dramatically with 4th edition D&D and the Pathfinder RPG even... those two events resulted in some pretty significant changes.
Not everything we "threw at the wall" in the first few Pathifnders ended up sticking[...]
Thanks for the quick reply; as for the dragons of Tian Xia, I'm rather glad that an "alternate" set of dragons is sticking to the true dragons' rules subset, and I humbly await what Paizo has in store for us.
3) There are five of them; alignments are LG, LE, N, LE, CE
4) They represent the balance between law and chaos and good and evil.
Three evil dragons, one neutral dragon, and one good dragon. Three lawful and one chaotic... That doesn't sound like "balance" between law and chaos and good and evil as I would expect it. A more expected approach would be for one of the LE dragons to be CG instead, balancing the scales and hitting all the key points on the alignment spectrum in full.
I'd be very interested in knowing how these dragons fit into a concept of "balance."
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3) There are five of them; alignments are LG, LE, N, LE, CE
4) They represent the balance between law and chaos and good and evil.
Three evil dragons, one neutral dragon, and one good dragon. Three lawful and one chaotic... That doesn't sound like "balance" between law and chaos and good and evil as I would expect it. A more expected approach would be for one of the LE dragons to be CG instead, balancing the scales and hitting all the key points on the alignment spectrum in full.
I'd be very interested in knowing how these dragons fit into a concept of "balance."
That's a typo.
The alignments of the five dragons are:
LG, LE, N, CG, CE
So: two lawful, two good, two evil, two chaotic, and one true neutral (the most powerful) lording it over the other four.
3) There are five of them; alignments are LG, LE, N, LE, CE
4) They represent the balance between law and chaos and good and evil.
Three evil dragons, one neutral dragon, and one good dragon. Three lawful and one chaotic... That doesn't sound like "balance" between law and chaos and good and evil as I would expect it. A more expected approach would be for one of the LE dragons to be CG instead, balancing the scales and hitting all the key points on the alignment spectrum in full.
I'd be very interested in knowing how these dragons fit into a concept of "balance."
That's a typo.
The alignments of the five dragons are:
LG, LE, N, CG, CE
So: two lawful, two good, two evil, two chaotic, and one true neutral (the most powerful) lording it over the other four.
That is truly interesting. Can't wait to see/learn more.
3) There are five of them; alignments are LG, LE, N, LE, CE
4) They represent the balance between law and chaos and good and evil.
Three evil dragons, one neutral dragon, and one good dragon. Three lawful and one chaotic... That doesn't sound like "balance" between law and chaos and good and evil as I would expect it. A more expected approach would be for one of the LE dragons to be CG instead, balancing the scales and hitting all the key points on the alignment spectrum in full.
I'd be very interested in knowing how these dragons fit into a concept of "balance."
That's a typo.
The alignments of the five dragons are:
LG, LE, N, CG, CE
So: two lawful, two good, two evil, two chaotic, and one true neutral (the most powerful) lording it over the other four.
Thanks for the clarification.
I like that the neutral is the most powerful, too. Very "Middle Way."
Thanks for such a prompt reply and laying some of my apprehensions to rest. Eastern dragons have long been my favorites, so it's good so see them being portrayed with a sense of respect, awe, and cultured integration.
I've always felt like Oriental Adventures, while being imaginative, made them feel a lot... lesser.