Why do so many APs take place in Varisia?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


I've noticed that many of the APs have been set in Varisia, at least partially (RotRL, CotCT, Jade Regent, etc). Now I'm hearing that the AP after Jade Regent will again revisit the Magnimar area. Is there a reason why this region is leaned on so heavily in the APs when there are so many other relatively undeveloped countries around the Inner Sea?

I'm guessing this has probably been asked before, but I couldn't find it in a messageboard posting. Apologies in advance if this has already been addressed! Thanks!


Varisia was the first region they developed. The rest were created in the modules and so forth for the first 18 months. The Gazetteer was the first writeup of the whole bunch, then the 3.5-era Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting, then the current Pathfinder-era Inner Sea World Guide.

I still think Varisia is the most fleshed-out region, probably because of the 3 APs set there. In short, it gets a lot of attention because it was first!


This proliferation of Varisian scenarios and adventures stems from a secret society called the Harrowing Cabal.


And it has a nice "small towns in need of defence right around the corner from ancient evil, giants, goblins, unspeakable horrors, lycanthropes, savage natives, and banjo-playing ogres" that makes the area ripe for good old-school style rpg adventures.


A Reliable Source wrote:
This proliferation of Varisian scenarios and adventures stems from a secret society called the Harrowing Cabal.

A reliable source tells me that this proliferation of Varisian scenarios and adventures stems from a secret society called the Harrowing Cabal.

And note that if we include Jade Regent, 4 APs take place in Varisia for at least some of the time. One plays completely in Varisia, another is also all Varisia except for a short excursion into a neighbouring region for one adventure, one starts off in Varisia but will leave it behind after half-time, and the last one will probably leave it behind earlier than that.

Anyway, as Evil (I can call you Evil, right?) mentioned, Varisia was first. That usually earns one a special place in people's hearts.

And some of the repetition is because some later APs tie into the former ones.

Actually, there are actually ties between the first three APs, even though the characters will probably never meet, none of the locations appear in more than one AP, and the connections are more behind the scenes, only to be understood by GMs and very insightful players (or those who are told about the connections).

Although there is one NPC that appeared in two of them. She also appears in Jade Regent.

But Jade Regent has more open connections to said AP.

And since we're talking about connections: Beyond the connections between Rise of the Runelords, Curse of the Crimson Throne and Second Darkness and the connections between Rise of the Runelords and Jade Regent, there are also connections between Curse of the Crimson Throne and Council of Thieves and Carrion Crown.

And I'm probably missing some connections, too.

Paizo are sneaky sneaks, they are!


Thanks for the insight everyone. This all makes sense; I kind of had a hunch that Paizo just had really developed a lot of this area and as a result it was just easier for them to call up detailed maps, npcs, cities etc.

I dunno though... I like Varisia well enough, and I like the idea of the AP's having some loose connections between them, but it just feels like such a small little corner of the Golarion map... and yeah it does kind of have a classic fantasy feel but I'd love (prefer?) to see more high concept APs in other areas like Carrion Crown and Legacy of Fire to help flesh out the rest of the world and have some thematic variety in the .

Since they seem to be kind of alternating between Varisia classic fantasy and high concept one-offs, I almost wonder if it might be good to make the Varisian AP's even more interrelated, to where they form more of an overreaching narrative or even direct sequels.

I guess maybe that's kind of the direction Jade Regent is starting to go?


KaeYoss wrote:

And since we're talking about connections: Beyond the connections between Rise of the Runelords, Curse of the Crimson Throne and Second Darkness and the connections between Rise of the Runelords and Jade Regent, there are also connections between Curse of the Crimson Throne and Council of Thieves and Carrion Crown.

And I'm probably missing some connections, too.

Paizo are sneaky sneaks, they are!

There's also rather straight-forward connections (from what I understand) in that Serpent Skull (which I have played) ties deeply into the events of the Second Darkness (which I haven't).


I can think of very random links from the second chapter of Runelords to both Carrion Crown and Kingmaker, a stained glass window and a book.


Tacticslion wrote:


There's also rather straight-forward connections (from what I understand) in that Serpent Skull (which I have played) ties deeply into the events of the Second Darkness (which I haven't).

Unless I'm missing something, the link is between the Journal from Second Darkness and the Serpent Skull AP itself. The PCs from SD never have anything to do with it.


Evil Lincoln wrote:
I can think of very random links from the second chapter of Runelords to both Carrion Crown and Kingmaker, a stained glass window and a book.

Haven't seen those, or I don't remember. Would you please elaborate?

Silver Crusade

orphicblue wrote:

I've noticed that many of the APs have been set in Varisia, at least partially (RotRL, CotCT, Jade Regent, etc). Now I'm hearing that the AP after Jade Regent will again revisit the Magnimar area. Is there a reason why this region is leaned on so heavily in the APs when there are so many other relatively undeveloped countries around the Inner Sea?

I'm guessing this has probably been asked before, but I couldn't find it in a messageboard posting. Apologies in advance if this has already been addressed! Thanks!

Its home for the writers and developers. As was mentioned earlier, it was the first area developed, and is the most detailed.

I think some of the staff run a home campaign called "shadows under Sand point".

So The writers and developers like the area.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

UNCONFIRMED GENCON RUMOUR:

- Shattered Star will feature tie-ins to previous Varisian APs

- Magnimar gets it's own sourcebook (HELL YES!)

- The fate of other Runelords and their grand schemes come into play

Grand Lodge

I think the best way to explain it, all of Chaos-boy's joking aside, is that Golarion didn't exist at first.

There was no Golarion for the first couple years -- only Varisia.

So obviously the first three APs were in Varisia. That's all that existed.
(They were also 3.5 D&D NOT Pathfinder cuz that didn't exist yet either!)

Now, sure, technically there was stuff off the map that Varisia was connected to, geographically, historically and culturally. But still, the best way to think about it is that in the begining, there was only Varisia.


And because it is so developed, Varisia is a phenomenal land to game in! I'm running RotRL right now, and my players are loving the campaign (almost finished with Book 2).

Personally, I'm psyched about the Shattered Star continuation! My group has the next three APs planned out in our progression (CotCT, SaS, and CC), but I could foresee myself getting them interested in doing Shattered Star when those are completed. =)

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Another reason I think and keep in mind this is just a personal opinion. I think Varisia is the most like the old school default DnD setting. Mostly open wilderness with some scattered towns around and isolated cities. Which assuming I am right(which obviously I think I am :) )) means it is the place most likely to appeal to the largest number of players.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I blame James Jacobs (since Varisia was his campaign setting).


2 people marked this as a favorite.

1. It was first. Being first has benefits.

2. It's a combo of civilization, frontier, and wilderness. Easy to plug adventures into.

3. It's a great jumping-off point. Better than Absalom, IMO. You can start in Varisia and if you're drawn to a particular genre/style of fantasy, most of the big ones surround Varisia or are a ship-ride away.

4. But most importantly, it's AWESOME.


KaeYoss wrote:

a bunch of stuff about connections

Paizo are sneaky sneaks, they are!

there is also an NPC in RotRL (and also Jade Regent now) who has a half sister of Council of Thieves.


orphicblue wrote:
it just feels like such a small little corner of the Golarion map... and yeah it does kind of have a classic fantasy feel but I'd love (prefer?) to see more high concept APs in other areas like Carrion Crown and Legacy of Fire to help flesh out the rest of the world

We have Rise of the Runelords (completely Varisia), Curse of the Crimson Throne (almost exclusively Varisia), Second Darkness (partly Varisia?), Jade Regent (half Varisia), Shattered Star (partly Varisia). That's 5 APs set in Varisia.

However we do have the following which have been expanded upon:

  • Katapesh (Legacy of Fire)
  • Cheliax (Council of Thieves)
  • River Kingdoms (Kingmaker)
  • The Mwangi Expanse (Serpent's Skull)
  • Ustalav (Carrion Crown)
  • Tian Xia (Jade Regent)
  • Mediogalti (Skulls & Shackles)

That's 7 regions which have been (or will be) explored and detailed besides Varisia (5 + 7 = 11 APs ????)

I think we're getting a healthy dose of non-Varisian and Varisian APs. Also after Jade Regent and Shattered Star, I would expect Varisia to be fairly tapped out. Jade Regent is sort of a sequel to Rise of the Runelords with Shattered Star a bit more of a sequel to RotR. I think after that trilogy RotR will have seen as much done with that concept as possible.


Varisia has hulking bald barbarians, hot tattooed gypsies and a grip of ruins everwhere from a couple of failed civilizations. Whats not to love?

APs are in Varisia because Varisia is cool. Kinda like California. Notice that Katy Perry sings about California girls not Iowa girls. Daisy dukes and bikinis on top? Check. Coveralls? Not so much.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

John Lynch 106 wrote:
...Jade Regent (half Varisia)...

Jade regent is in fact 1/6 Varisia, actually. It's not really a sequel to Rise of the Runelords at all; it really just uses 2 NPCs from that campaign as significant characters.

The Shattered Star AP, on the other hand, is DEFINITELY a sequel to Rise of the Runelords.

And while what I have tentatively planned beyond Shattered Star doesn't return to Varisia anytime soon... there's enough going on still in Varisia to sustain numerous other APs. The campaign I'm running for the folks here at Paizo, for example, does a lot of stuff in Varisia (in fact, stays pretty much in the Sandpoint hinterlands with a few side trips to Magnimar) that hasn't really figured into anything in print at all.


Gorbacz wrote:

UNCONFIRMED GENCON RUMOUR:

- Shattered Star will feature tie-ins to previous Varisian APs

- Magnimar gets it's own sourcebook (HELL YES!)

- The fate of other Runelords and their grand schemes come into play

This excites me greatly! I have been infatuated with the runelords ever since I discovered them in ROTRL, but the information give on anyone aside from Karzoug is little to none and they are easily my favorite characters from the setting. But on top of this I think another reason is that low level adventurers tend to fight one of three things: kobolds, goblins, and skeletons/zombies, If you look at the map that identifies the major goblin tribes just about all of them are in or near varisia :).

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Gorbacz wrote:


- Magnimar gets it's own sourcebook (HELL YES!)

Will that be the first ever source book dedicated entirely to a city?:)


Pyrrhic Victory wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:


- Magnimar gets it's own sourcebook (HELL YES!)

Will that be the first ever source book dedicated entirely to a city?:)

No. See:

Guide to Korvosa
Guide to Katapesh
Guide to Absalom
Cities of Golarion


BPorter wrote:
Pyrrhic Victory wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:


- Magnimar gets it's own sourcebook (HELL YES!)

Will that be the first ever source book dedicated entirely to a city?:)

No. See:

Guide to Korvosa
Guide to Katapesh
Guide to Absalom
Cities of Golarion

I believe Pyrric Victory was indulging in a bit of edition warring and trolling here...


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
BPorter wrote:
Pyrrhic Victory wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:


- Magnimar gets it's own sourcebook (HELL YES!)

Will that be the first ever source book dedicated entirely to a city?:)

No. See:

Guide to Korvosa
Guide to Katapesh
Guide to Absalom
Cities of Golarion

You forgot City of Strangers.

And I also believe it was a 4e dig.


Someone correct me if I'm wrong (because I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable on the subject as the average person on these boards) but I somehow got the impression that Varisia has greater tolerance of diversity than many other areas in Golarion. So if a player wants to play a less popular race, ethnicity, or class, there is less chance of being ostracized for it in Varisia, and for that reason, it's easier to play in or run a game there.


James Jacobs wrote:
John Lynch 106 wrote:
...Jade Regent (half Varisia)...

Jade regent is in fact 1/6 Varisia, actually. It's not really a sequel to Rise of the Runelords at all; it really just uses 2 NPCs from that campaign as significant characters.

The Shattered Star AP, on the other hand, is DEFINITELY a sequel to Rise of the Runelords.

And while what I have tentatively planned beyond Shattered Star doesn't return to Varisia anytime soon... there's enough going on still in Varisia to sustain numerous other APs. The campaign I'm running for the folks here at Paizo, for example, does a lot of stuff in Varisia (in fact, stays pretty much in the Sandpoint hinterlands with a few side trips to Magnimar) that hasn't really figured into anything in print at all.

I wish you would share with us your tentative plans so we may all treat them as absolute fact. Wow, that was a mouth full! I bet you can't say that ten times fast. I double dare you. Just say what I said, especially the beginning.

Yesssssssss.

Three out of six of our players think Varisia is awesome so we don't mind it. I'm going Jade Regent style on The Shattered Star for a bit though; not making a decision on whether to purchase or not until we get close to the release dates and I can see who's writing what.

Dark Archive

Dark_Mistress wrote:
Another reason I think and keep in mind this is just a personal opinion. I think Varisia is the most like the old school default DnD setting. Mostly open wilderness with some scattered towns around and isolated cities. Which assuming I am right(which obviously I think I am :) )) means it is the place most likely to appeal to the largest number of players.

Bingo.

I actually really dislike Varisia for the lack of central government and all the wilderness. Never liked it. I find Taldor, Cheliax, and Qadira the most interest settings.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Advice Glabrezu wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
John Lynch 106 wrote:
...Jade Regent (half Varisia)...

Jade regent is in fact 1/6 Varisia, actually. It's not really a sequel to Rise of the Runelords at all; it really just uses 2 NPCs from that campaign as significant characters.

The Shattered Star AP, on the other hand, is DEFINITELY a sequel to Rise of the Runelords.

And while what I have tentatively planned beyond Shattered Star doesn't return to Varisia anytime soon... there's enough going on still in Varisia to sustain numerous other APs. The campaign I'm running for the folks here at Paizo, for example, does a lot of stuff in Varisia (in fact, stays pretty much in the Sandpoint hinterlands with a few side trips to Magnimar) that hasn't really figured into anything in print at all.

I wish you would share with us your tentative plans so we may all treat them as absolute fact. Wow, that was a mouth full! I bet you can't say that ten times fast. I double dare you. Just say what I said, especially the beginning.

Yesssssssss.

Three out of six of our players think Varisia is awesome so we don't mind it. I'm going Jade Regent style on The Shattered Star for a bit though; not making a decision on whether to purchase or not until we get close to the release dates and I can see who's writing what.

The current tentative list of authors includes your six favorites, so you should advance order right now.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Advice Glabrezu wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
John Lynch 106 wrote:
...Jade Regent (half Varisia)...

Jade regent is in fact 1/6 Varisia, actually. It's not really a sequel to Rise of the Runelords at all; it really just uses 2 NPCs from that campaign as significant characters.

The Shattered Star AP, on the other hand, is DEFINITELY a sequel to Rise of the Runelords.

And while what I have tentatively planned beyond Shattered Star doesn't return to Varisia anytime soon... there's enough going on still in Varisia to sustain numerous other APs. The campaign I'm running for the folks here at Paizo, for example, does a lot of stuff in Varisia (in fact, stays pretty much in the Sandpoint hinterlands with a few side trips to Magnimar) that hasn't really figured into anything in print at all.

I wish you would share with us your tentative plans so we may all treat them as absolute fact. Wow, that was a mouth full! I bet you can't say that ten times fast. I double dare you. Just say what I said, especially the beginning.

Yesssssssss.

Three out of six of our players think Varisia is awesome so we don't mind it. I'm going Jade Regent style on The Shattered Star for a bit though; not making a decision on whether to purchase or not until we get close to the release dates and I can see who's writing what.

The current tentative list of authors includes your six favorites, so you should advance order right now.

Let me guess Greg Vaughn is writing one.:)

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.
James Jacobs wrote:
Advice Glabrezu wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
John Lynch 106 wrote:
...Jade Regent (half Varisia)...

Jade regent is in fact 1/6 Varisia, actually. It's not really a sequel to Rise of the Runelords at all; it really just uses 2 NPCs from that campaign as significant characters.

The Shattered Star AP, on the other hand, is DEFINITELY a sequel to Rise of the Runelords.

And while what I have tentatively planned beyond Shattered Star doesn't return to Varisia anytime soon... there's enough going on still in Varisia to sustain numerous other APs. The campaign I'm running for the folks here at Paizo, for example, does a lot of stuff in Varisia (in fact, stays pretty much in the Sandpoint hinterlands with a few side trips to Magnimar) that hasn't really figured into anything in print at all.

I wish you would share with us your tentative plans so we may all treat them as absolute fact. Wow, that was a mouth full! I bet you can't say that ten times fast. I double dare you. Just say what I said, especially the beginning.

Yesssssssss.

Three out of six of our players think Varisia is awesome so we don't mind it. I'm going Jade Regent style on The Shattered Star for a bit though; not making a decision on whether to purchase or not until we get close to the release dates and I can see who's writing what.

The current tentative list of authors includes your six favorites, so you should advance order right now.

Sell that book James! SELL THAT BOOK!


It's so I can pretend that playing an untrustworthy gypsy in game after game is just me trying to be setting appropriate.


Justin Franklin wrote:
BPorter wrote:
Pyrrhic Victory wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:


- Magnimar gets it's own sourcebook (HELL YES!)

Will that be the first ever source book dedicated entirely to a city?:)

No. See:

Guide to Korvosa
Guide to Katapesh
Guide to Absalom
Cities of Golarion

You forgot City of Strangers.

And I also believe it was a 4e dig.

Sigh. You're right.

I'd forgotten about the latest 4e marketing nonsense. I thought it was just a generic-Golarion question.

I am so bad at recognizing sarcasm in Internet posts sometimes...

Dark Archive

I've got to say, I find Varisia personally very compelling. It sort of typified what Pathfinder means to me; breaking out of old ruts in D&D and doing something interesting with old tools, making something that feels new and different despite being rather old. It heavily features the classic RPG mainstays of Goblins and Ogres and Giants and Wizards, but makes them actually fit into the world. It made Lamias a major enemy. Lamias! that's an achievement in and of itself.

Then the rest of the setting came along and went all kitchen-sink psudo-post-renaissance or whatever you call it. Which is great, don't get me wrong, but I still have a fondness for the original region.

I'm fine with Shattered Star being a true sequel to Rise of the Runelords, and I'm also fine with leaving varisia for a good while. Here's hoping the AP after that will finally be the Numeria one. My players have a hankering for alien juice.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Justin Franklin wrote:
BPorter wrote:
Pyrrhic Victory wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:


- Magnimar gets it's own sourcebook (HELL YES!)

Will that be the first ever source book dedicated entirely to a city?:)

No. See:

Guide to Korvosa
Guide to Katapesh
Guide to Absalom
Cities of Golarion

You forgot City of Strangers.

And I also believe it was a 4e dig.

Yes, Just some harmless fun. I actually do play 4e upon occasion with 1 of my friends who is also in my Pathfinder group. But after seeing the other thread I could not resist.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

And on point...I love Varisia and am eagerly awaiting the hardback RotRL. Unfortunately my group of 40 somethings with families does not play nearly enough. We are just finishing up 2nd Darkness after about 2 years of play and I think everyone is suffering from a little adventure path fatigue. So we are going to switch to PFS for a little while to enjoy the one shots but by next summer everyone should be ready again for a big campaign.

Sovereign Court

The Shattered Star and a Magnimar book will tie-in really nicely with the RotRL re-release as well. Pretty much everyone wanted more information about Magnimar when running RotRL.
Players who come to PF, or just the APs, with Jade Regent will probably be interested as well.
The fact that it is a sequel to RotRL is just the icing on the cake.

I would describe the re-focus on Varisia as... coherent.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Pyrrhic Victory wrote:
Yes, Just some harmless fun. I actually do play 4e upon occasion with 1 of my friends who is also in my Pathfinder group. But after seeing the other thread I could not resist.

Edition wars and insults/snark against game companies on these boards is never regarded by us at Paizo as harmless fun. Please don't engage in it.

Frog God Games

I love Varisia. I love the whole feel of the setting. I also love how I can take all the APs located within Varisia and meld them into a more sandboxy style campaign with a lot of complex things going on somewhat simultaneously. It gives my 9 players enough material to swim around in as they choose and gives me enough material for experience and treasure to make up for the fact that there are 9 of them in adventures written specifically for 4 players in mind.

Dark Archive

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Varisia is compelling to me because it seems to embody the best aspects of that 'into the unexplored wilderness' feeling that alot of epic fantasy starts with.

More than any of the other regions, it feels to me, like it has the greatest history to play with, a well worn legacy built on the dust and ruins of ancient powers, not unlike a comparison between Star Wars and Star Trek.

There's no ruling power to compete with my players, and the city state structure makes for an interesting dynamic where the frontier zones are literally ruled by the strongest or smartest.

The land is still untamed, and even the places where humanoids are dominant (ie. Kaer Maga), it still feels largely like that's just because an ancient greater power hasn't grown bored enough yet to swat them away, and there are huge regions where humanity is still irrelevant to mother nature (Cinderlands).

I'm sure there are tons of other reasons given enough thought, but ultimately I just love the dichotomy between unexplored wilderness and "holy crap, look at the size of that ruin, what the hell could have built that!".

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Pyrrhic Victory wrote:
Yes, Just some harmless fun. I actually do play 4e upon occasion with 1 of my friends who is also in my Pathfinder group. But after seeing the other thread I could not resist.
Edition wars and insults/snark against game companies on these boards is never regarded by us at Paizo as harmless fun. Please don't engage in it.

I am sorry James, based on the number of threads that engage in this kind of comment, I had no idea that official Paizo policy was that this should not be done. Just to be clear, because I know that typing is sometimes unlcear, I am not being sarcastic. I will avoid this in the future. Consider me slapped down.

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