Wizard's Bonded Object question


Pathfinder Society

The Exchange 4/5

ok i got a question i could not find a definitive answer for. I know item creation feats etc. are not allowed. so how does this effect a wizards ability to enchant his bound object i.e. a bound wand or weapon?

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Did you try a search?

The Exchange 4/5

Dragnmoon wrote:
Did you try a search?

nope lol. brain dead, had jury duty today... thank you.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Basicaly for PFS purposes the only use you get out of your Arcane Bond is that free spell per day. You can however switch that bond to a new item you acquire between modules.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Ok this depends on what your Bonded Item is, if it is a mundae item then why would you enchant it. However, if it is say a weapon, it is already masterwork, thus you can enchant it as you wish. This does not change the item being bonded. You can not change this item from adventure to adventure. For example My 3rd level Elven wizard has a bonded weapon of an Elven Curve Blade, I can not cast a spell without it in my hand. I recently enchanted it to +1, should it get sundered though I am in deep doo doo.

The Exchange 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Mediterranean

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LazarX wrote:
Basicaly for PFS purposes the only use you get out of your Arcane Bond is that free spell per day. You can however switch that bond to a new item you acquire between modules.

Incorrect. Josh ruled that:

Joshua J. Frost wrote:

As for the arcane bonded item for a wizard, I am making no changes to the way the arcane bond works on page 78 of the PRPG Core Rulebook. Though PFS doesn't have item creation feats, the arcane bonded item for a wizard still allows that wizard to use those feats per the rules on page 78 of the PRPG Core Rulebook. Please insure that you have fully familiarized yourself with those rules as there are several easy-to-miss steps in there. Specifically, the line

PRPG Core Rulebook wrote:

"A wizard can add additional magic abilities to his bonded object as if he has the level prerequisites of the feat."

means the wizard still has to pay the associated costs and must have the correct item for the feat. (For example, he must have an arcane bonded item "wand" to add wand abilities or must have an arcane bonded item "sword" to add weapon abilities, etc.)

Liberty's Edge 3/5

David Harrison wrote:

Incorrect. Josh ruled that:

Joshua J. Frost wrote:

As for the arcane bonded item for a wizard, I am making no changes to the way the arcane bond works on page 78 of the PRPG Core Rulebook. Though PFS doesn't have item creation feats, the arcane bonded item for a wizard still allows that wizard to use those feats per the rules on page 78 of the PRPG Core Rulebook. Please insure that you have fully familiarized yourself with those rules as there are several easy-to-miss steps in there. Specifically, the line

PRPG Core Rulebook wrote:

"A wizard can add additional magic abilities to his bonded object as if he has the level prerequisites of the feat."

means the wizard still has to pay the associated costs and must have the correct item for the feat. (For example, he must have an arcane bonded item "wand" to add wand abilities or must have an arcane bonded item "sword" to add weapon abilities, etc.)

But, if he wants he can switch to another magic item acquired in a module as the PRPG Core Rulebook also states:

A wizard can designate an existing magic item as his bonded item. This functions in the same way as replacing a lost or destroyed item except that the new magic item retains its abilities while gaining the benefits and drawbacks of becoming a bonded item.

Presumably, you would have to pay the 200gp per wizard level to do so between scenarios to transfer the bond.

I have been thinking about this myself. I was thinking of creating a Diviner with an Amulet as my Arcane Bonded object for Pathfinder, but the only two standard magic items that a Wizard can make are the Amulet of the Planes and Amulet of Proof Against Detection and Location. Both don't seem to be very useful in society play and I doubt they would allow the creation of non-standard magic items for society play as that could lead to abuse. For example, an Amulet of Armor. In other words, Bracers of Armor in amulet form.

So, being able to transfer the bond seems more viable so my wizard can transfer the bond to an Amulet of Natural Armor, which only a druid, and some of the new core classes from the Advanced Players Guide, can make.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
David Harrison wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Basicaly for PFS purposes the only use you get out of your Arcane Bond is that free spell per day. You can however switch that bond to a new item you acquire between modules.

Incorrect. Josh ruled that:

Joshua J. Frost wrote:

As for the arcane bonded item for a wizard, I am making no changes to the way the arcane bond works on page 78 of the PRPG Core Rulebook. Though PFS doesn't have item creation feats, the arcane bonded item for a wizard still allows that wizard to use those feats per the rules on page 78 of the PRPG Core Rulebook. Please insure that you have fully familiarized yourself with those rules as there are several easy-to-miss steps in there. Specifically, the line

PRPG Core Rulebook wrote:

"A wizard can add additional magic abilities to his bonded object as if he has the level prerequisites of the feat."

means the wizard still has to pay the associated costs and must have the correct item for the feat. (For example, he must have an arcane bonded item "wand" to add wand abilities or must have an arcane bonded item "sword" to add weapon abilities, etc.)

Here is the problem. The passage you are quoting from refers to general rules NOT PFS play. In PFS play, not only are the item creation feats forbidden, but so is Item Creation itself save for very specified cases of which the arcane bond is not one of. PFS does not have the mechanics nor the rules to handle the "virtual item creation" feature of the item arcane bond. It has not been addressed so the safe answer if PFS does not specifically allow it, it's forbidden.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
LazarX wrote:


Here is the problem. The passage you are quoting from refers to general rules NOT PFS play. In PFS play, not only are the item creation feats forbidden, but so is Item Creation itself save for very specified cases of which the arcane bond is not one of. PFS does not have the mechanics nor the rules to handle the "virtual item creation" feature of the item arcane bond. It has not been addressed so the safe answer if PFS does not specifically allow it, it's forbidden.

The Passage he was quoting was for PFS play. It was Josh saying that Bonded items in PFS play run as in the Book.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Captain, Texas—Waco

Dragnmoon wrote:
The Passage he was quoting was for PFS play. It was Josh saying that Bonded items in PFS play run as in the Book.

+1

I vividly remember these discussions when they played out because I have a PFS wizard, and Dragnmoon is spot on.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Dragnmoon wrote:
The Passage he was quoting was for PFS play. It was Josh saying that Bonded items in PFS play run as in the Book.

Dragnmoon is correct (as is the original poster of the quote). My primary character is a wizard and I familiarized myself with these rulings early because they were such a huge impact.

The Exchange 4/5

Thank you all this helped a lot. I have a member making a wizard and wanted to bond an item. he now has what he needs to plan out future improvements to said item.

thank you for your help. I love this community. you all are very helpful and make this so much more fun. I look forward to meeting as many of you as i can at paizo con and other conventions in the western USA.

Scarab Sages 1/5

Themes86 wrote:


I have been thinking about this myself. I was thinking of creating a Diviner with an Amulet as my Arcane Bonded object for Pathfinder, but the only two standard magic items that a Wizard can make are the Amulet of the Planes and Amulet of Proof Against Detection and Location. Both don't seem to be very useful in society play and I doubt they would allow the creation of non-standard magic items for society play as that could lead to abuse. For example, an Amulet of Armor. In other words, Bracers of Armor in amulet form.

So, being able to transfer the bond seems more viable so my wizard...

I would point out the Amulet of Spell Cunning from the APG. My wizard is sure drooling over the possibilities.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Matthew Trent wrote:
I would point out the Amulet of Spell Cunning from the APG. My wizard is sure drooling over the possibilities.

That is a fantastic suggestion. This is what I went with though. Nice item, nice price.

The Exchange 5/5

MisterSlanky wrote:
Matthew Trent wrote:
I would point out the Amulet of Spell Cunning from the APG. My wizard is sure drooling over the possibilities.
That is a fantastic suggestion. This is what I went with though. Nice item, nice price.

okay i have been looking through the boards for the last few hours to get a couple of questions answered about wizards and arcane bonded weapons and i need some clarifiactions, i am aware that this may be answered elsewhere but i am at the end of my rope the questions are as follows;

1. If a wizard takes a arcane bonded weapon that is not on his class or racial weapon profiecny lists he is profiecent in its use?

2. As suggested above, can I PFS legally take either item as my arcane bonded item?

3. I know that Joshua ruled that a wizard can enchant their arcane bonded item without the normal play required feats as long as they pay for the cost; has this been erratted or changed?

any assistance and clarification greatly appreciated


Thakell wrote:


okay i have been looking through the boards for the last few hours to get a couple of questions answered about wizards and arcane bonded weapons and i need some clarifications, i am aware that this may be answered elsewhere but i am at the end of my rope the questions are as follows;

1. If a wizard takes a arcane bonded weapon that is not on his class or racial weapon proficiency lists he is proficient in its use?

2. As suggested above, can I PFS legally take either item as my arcane bonded item?

3. I know that Joshua ruled that a wizard can enchant their arcane bonded item without the normal play required feats as long as they pay for the cost; has this been errattaed or changed?

any assistance and clarification greatly appreciated

1: The rules say you have be able to wield the arcane bond if it is a weapon in order to get the benefit, not hit something with it, so I would say you do not have to be proficient with it as long as you are not going to physically attack with it. And if you do attack with it, then you get the usual minus to your roll.

2: You can buy any item that is labeled as always available and that would apply to weapons you are not trained to use.

3: I have seen no changes to Josh's original ruling. so I would say it is safe to continue to do it that way.

4: Related to 1 and 2, if, in the future, you were to play a character class or race that was restricted from using a specific type of weapon, then you could not use that for an arcane bonded weapon, but just not being proficient should not make any difference at all.

The Exchange 5/5

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

sorry to thread-rez,

but is there a limitation on what caster level you set for your bonded item ( wand )?
If you've got a 10th level wizard for example, can you make your bonded wand a Wand of Fireballs at CL 10th as long as you pay ( CL 10th x spell level 3rd x 375 gp )? or are you required to make the wand at minimum caster level even if that's below your own caster level?

Dark Archive 4/5

I think I posted in the other thread but I'll post it here again. They have to follow the standard item creation rules of PFS, therefore minimum caster level.

The Exchange 5/5

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

i'm unaware of special magic item creation rules in the guide. what page are those on? i might have missed it. "standard item creation rules" for pfs are "no item creation" afaik.
wizards get a special pass on that due to bonded items.

if you mean the section of the society guide for Potions, Scrolls, and Wands:

Quote:

Potions, Scrolls, and Wands

All potions, scrolls, wands, and other consumables are made by clerics, druids, or wizards in Pathfinder Society Organized Play. The only exceptions are spells that are not on the cleric, druid, or wizard spell list. For example, a scroll of lesser restoration must be purchased as a 2nd-level scroll off the cleric spell list and may not be purchased as a 1st-level scroll off the paladin spell list. If a spell appears at different levels on two different lists, use the lower level spell to determine cost. As an example, poison would be priced as a 3rd-level druid spell instead of a 4th-level cleric spell. All potions, scrolls, and wands are available only at the minimum caster level unless found at a higher caster level on a Chronicle sheet.

calling it the rules of item creation is misrepresentative, its more accurate that they're the rules for buying potions, scrolls, and wands. It still only looks like it pertains to actually purchasing potions, scrolls, and wands from npc spellcasters (citing the key phrase "available only at the minimum caster level"). Not ones crafted by a PC wizard for his bonded item (wand), who could choose the caster level , up to his own caster level, when crafting the wand.

The FAQ for upgrading bonded items basically only says that they have to meet prerequisites, and adhere to fame restrictions on buying items. (i.e. must be 7th level if they're going to set the CL of their item at 7th level, must be 6th level to upgrade a weapon to a +2 enhancement ), and follows the other PFS rules for upgrading equipment ( ex. you can pay the difference between a +1 sword and a +2 sword to upgrade, instead of selling it and re-buying. )

Dark Archive 4/5

The FAQ on bonded item creation states that you have to follow the PFS rules for access and upgrades. That points you to the quoted information you provided regarding wands specifically which states that wands are at minimum CL and with full charges. If you get access to a wand of Magic Missle at CL 5 with 10 charges, you can purchase that and make it your bonded item. It doesn't mean your wizard can now suddenly create wands of MM CL 5 with 10 charges.

The Exchange 5/5

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

but do you see the ridiculousness of that as a benefit?

there is no benefit for a wizard to buy a partially charged wand, and then pay to make that his bonded item.

the only point in having a bonded item (wand) is to be able to craft it yourself, and put a nice spell in there, at a hopefully useful caster level.

otherwise you've just spent x on the wand, and 200gp x level , to change your bonded item to the wand. which only provides a mechanical benefit in crafting your wand.

and again, there is no FAQ on "bonded item creation"
there's an FAQ on UPGRADING a bonded item. link

Quote:

A character with the arcane bond class feature may create a bond with any item he owns, either magical or mundane, as long as the item falls within the categories permitted by the arcane bond ability (the cost for bonding with a new item still applies). If a caster later wishes to upgrade an existing bonded item, he may do so for the cost (not price) of the final item as listed in the item's statblock.

For items which can be enhanced incrementally (such as weapons or a ring of protection), the caster must meet all prerequisites for the item as outlined in the item crafting rules. For example, a nonmagical bonded dagger can be enchanted to a +1 dagger for 1,000 gp instead of the normal 2,000 gp, but the caster must be at least 5th level (a prerequisite for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat). To upgrade the item further to a +2 dagger, the caster must have a caster level of 6 or higher (three times the item's enhancement bonus).

A bonded item that is enhanced must still conform to all the campaign rules for access to and upgrading of magical items. The final and total price of the item (not the cost) is used on the Fame chart to determine whether a caster can apply such an enhancement to a bonded item.

so a bonded item that is enhanced, must conform to the rules for access to and upgrading of magical items.

is crafting a wand of fireballs enhancing an item? or creating it?
does crafting a wand pertain to access of an item? does it pertain to upgrading an item?
ergo there's no FAQ for creating magic items. just upgrading wondrous items and weapons.
which have to follow campaign access rules like: does the character have enough fame for this item? this material? do they have access? can they afford the full price of the item with fame,not just the cost of the item?

so yes, wands need to be addressed, or the wording on the FAQ aligned so that it applies to wands as well.

Dark Archive 1/5

The creation rules for wands state that "The price of a wand is equal to the level of the spell × the creator's caster level × 750 gp." And that "A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell." Therefore, if a character has a wand as a bonded item, they can create it at any CL up to their own (at half price, so times 325gp instead of 750gp)

The big downside (well, teeny tiny insignificant downside, really) of using the item creation rules for your bonded item are that you need a DM to sign off on your check to create it: as stated in the item creation rules, "At the end of this process, the spellcaster must make a single skill check (usually Spellcraft, but sometimes another skill) to finish the item. If an item type has multiple possible skills, you choose which skill to make the check with. The DC to create a magic item is 5 + the caster level for the item. Failing this check means that the item does not function and the materials and time are wasted. Failing this check by 5 or more results in a cursed item." This means that if you don't have the appropriate skill for the crafting, you might end up with a cursed item that you have to buy off before you can continue using your character.

Liberty's Edge

D3my wrote:

The creation rules for wands state that "The price of a wand is equal to the level of the spell × the creator's caster level × 750 gp." And that "A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell." Therefore, if a character has a wand as a bonded item, they can create it at any CL up to their own (at half price, so times 325gp instead of 750gp)

The big downside (well, teeny tiny insignificant downside, really) of using the item creation rules for your bonded item are that you need a DM to sign off on your check to create it: as stated in the item creation rules, "At the end of this process, the spellcaster must make a single skill check (usually Spellcraft, but sometimes another skill) to finish the item. If an item type has multiple possible skills, you choose which skill to make the check with. The DC to create a magic item is 5 + the caster level for the item. Failing this check means that the item does not function and the materials and time are wasted. Failing this check by 5 or more results in a cursed item." This means that if you don't have the appropriate skill for the crafting, you might end up with a cursed item that you have to buy off before you can continue using your character.

Spellcraft is fine for crafting magical items and the crafter can take 10 when doing it.

It is practically impossible to fail the check when making a wand at minimum caster level even if you have only 1 skill rank.

Maximum DC +5+7(fourth level spell at minimum caster level) ) DC 12. You must have the spell to make the wand, so there is no +5 increase in DC for missing the spell.

Class skill +3, 1 skill rank, taking 10 = minimum result is 14.
And that guy has an intelligence of 10 (sorcerer with a bonded object or other class that get it somehow).

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