Pathfinder Society Scenario Retirements

[Mark Moreland]

This thread exists to keep a running update of past and planned retirements of Pathfinder Society scenarios from season 0, the playtest season.

#10: Blood at Dralkard Manor
#15: Asmodeus Mirage
Retired from play on March 29, 2010.

#9: Eye of the Crocodile King
#18: The Trouble with Secrets
#21: The Eternal Obelisk
Retired from play on May 24, 2010.

#11: The Third Riddle
#12: Stay of Execution
#19: Skeleton Moon
#25: Hands of the Muted God
Retired from play on November 15, 2010.

[Arnim Thayer]

Any foreword on what Season 0 scenarios will be converted?

[Joshua J. Frost]

Nothing I'm willing to share yet.

[DarkWhite]

Hi Josh,

A couple of things ...

1) I Cloned last year's GenConOz-2009 event in order to get an event page up for this year's GenConOz-2010 event. I notice it clones the scenarios being run .. including the two retired ones, Dralkard and Asmodeus, but I can't deselect them from display, because their checkboxes are unavailable, due to having being retired.

2) I'll be posting a call for volunteer GMs to nominate which scenarios they'd like to run at GenConOz, and then submit those sessions to GenConOz event registration. Are there any Season 0 scenarios we should avoid due to pending retirement (other than the five already announced)?

Otherwise, I might just include a disclaimer on all Season 0 scenario blurbs that these sessions are subject to change.

PS, I realise Josh is on holidays, maybe someone else can help, or it can wait until his return.

Feel free to reply via email, it's listed on the GenConOz-2010 event page.

Cheers,
DarkWhite

[feytharn]

Will the retired Scenarios still be available for purchase?

[Tom Carpenter]

feytharn wrote:

Will the retired Scenarios still be available for purchase?

It was previously stated no.

But if you had already purchased them they would remain in your downloads. You would not lose your purchase.

[Cpt_kirstov]

Tom Carpenter wrote:

feytharn wrote:

Will the retired Scenarios still be available for purchase?

It was previously stated no.

But if you had already purchased them they would remain in your downloads. You would not lose your purchase.

I *think* it was originally stated that they would not be available, but currently looking at the store, the retired scenarios look like this: Pathfinder Society Scenario #10: Blood at Dralkard Manor (OGL) PDF (Retired) but is still available to download

[Dave the Barbarian]

Nit-picky question - If the next batch of scenario's are retired on May 24th, does this mean that we can play them ON the 24th, but not the 25th, OR does it mean that the last day is the 23rd because on the 24th, it is toast. We have a game day on the 24th and was curious if we could still run any of those on that day. Thanks!

Dave

[Masika]

I will repost here, but how do we report the retired scenario sessions. That is to say, the session that were run PRIOR to the retirement date.

(Yes I have been VERY slack)

[Rocannon II]

Masika wrote:

I will repost here, but how do we report the retired scenario sessions. That is to say, the session that were run PRIOR to the retirement date.

(Yes I have been VERY slack)

Since Josh and the Paizo bunch are relying on the Honor system. If you date the mod on the day you played it, you should be fine.

I forgot to add a player from one session and it worked for me that way.

As I am not a member of Paizo this is just my impression.

[teribithia9]

Rocannon II wrote:

Masika wrote:

I will repost here, but how do we report the retired scenario sessions. That is to say, the session that were run PRIOR to the retirement date.

(Yes I have been VERY slack)

Since Josh and the Paizo bunch are relying on the Honor system. If you date the mod on the day you played it, you should be fine.

I forgot to add a player from one session and it worked for me that way.

As I am not a member of Paizo this is just my impression.

This doesn't work for reporting the retired modules, because they no longer appear in the list of modules to report after the date they're retired.

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Dave the Barbarian wrote:

Nit-picky question - If the next batch of scenario's are retired on May 24th, does this mean that we can play them ON the 24th, but not the 25th, OR does it mean that the last day is the 23rd because on the 24th, it is toast. We have a game day on the 24th and was curious if we could still run any of those on that day. Thanks!

Dave

Well, for the first batch, the date listed was the first day they could no longer be reported, so the second batch should be the same way. You have til Sunday, May 23rd, to play AND report them, and on the 24th they are retired. It looks like the retirements are timed to always go into effect on Mondays so that the scenarios can be played and reported on the weekend before the retirement is official.

Now, if you want to get picky about this, and I am sure people playing in other parts of the world would, what is the exact cutoff time for reporting? Is it midnight Pacific time when the clock changes to May 24th, since Paizo is on the west coast, or is some other time zone used for this, or is it midnight your time, no matter where in the world you are?

[Joshua J. Frost]

It's best to assume that if a scenario is retired on 5/24, then you should get your playing/reporting done on or before 5/23. We don't publish the time we shut it off on 5/24, just that it will be shut off that day.

As for reporting scenarios that are retired--they're retired. We have no process for reporting something that's retired, even if you ran it before the retirement date. It's important that GMs/coordinators report in a timely manner and this one a of many reflections why.

[Vic Wertz]

Cpt_kirstov wrote:

Tom Carpenter wrote:

feytharn wrote:

Will the retired Scenarios still be available for purchase?

It was previously stated no.

But if you had already purchased them they would remain in your downloads. You would not lose your purchase.

I *think* it was originally stated that they would not be available, but currently looking at the store, the retired scenarios look like this: Pathfinder Society Scenario #10: Blood at Dralkard Manor (OGL) PDF (Retired) but is still available to download

Yes, you can still buy them after they're retired, but during checkout, you have to acknowledge that you understand they're no longer legal for PFS play.

[DarkWhite]

As this thread has been resurrected and Josh is back from holidays (welcome back ;-) I thought I'd mention these two again:

1) I created an event page for GenConOz-2010 by cloning last year's event. However, the Scenarios listing displays Blood at Dralkard Manor (retired) and Asmodeus Mirage (retired), even though these didn't appear in the editable checkbox list (because they've been retired), so I'm unable to remove them.

2) At GenConOz I'm going to focus on Season 1 scenarios, but hoping to offer one Pathfinder Classic table per session to give players an opportunity to catch up on scenarios they might have missed. I'll be giving preference to scenarios with sequels, eg Mists of Mwangi + Voices in the Void; Among the Dead + Among the Living; etc, though other favourites may appear too.

Is there any chance of knowing which scenarios may be retired before end of September, now so that I can register sessions for the event? By private email if necessary, my contact details are on the GenConOz-2010 event page.

Cheers :-)
DarkWhite

[Masika]

Joshua J. Frost wrote:

It's best to assume that if a scenario is retired on 5/24, then you should get your playing/reporting done on or before 5/23. We don't publish the time we shut it off on 5/24, just that it will be shut off that day.

As for reporting scenarios that are retired--they're retired. We have no process for reporting something that's retired, even if you ran it before the retirement date. It's important that GMs/coordinators report in a timely manner and this one a of many reflections why.

Thanks for the feedback Joshua.

I will suck that up and chest up to my players and tell them that the results from those adventures are null and invalid. If the player/s weren't attending a Con to play I would let them keep it. It is my fault for entering the data in.

I had been slack as I stop following the forums for a time and the nice new system for entry didn't exist. My only issue is that I (and others) can enter in older events (June 2009) around scenarios I ran then but are valid as they are not retired scenarios.

I like to think of myself as honest. Just seems off that folks can enter in scenarios from a ways back so long as the scenarios are valid.

[Joshua J. Frost]

It's not invalid. Their physical record still counts. They just don't have a digital record.

[Joshua J. Frost]

DarkWhite wrote:

Is there any chance of knowing which scenarios may be retired before end of September, now so that I can register sessions for the event? By private email if necessary, my contact details are on the GenConOz-2010 event page.

DarkWhite: send me an email.

[Joshua J. Frost]

#9, #18, and #21 are now retired. Updated the first post.

[MisterSlanky]

Hey Josh,

I just bought these three modules for my collection and the purchasing interface only notified me that #9 was being retired. I think the interface may not let you know that multiple scenarios are retired if you're buying more than one retired scenario.

Just thought you might want to know.

[Enevhar Aldarion]

While the system may not have let you know that, each scenario being retired or already retired does have text in bold print in the actual item description saying so.

[Masika]

Hi Joshua,

I am just curious as to what you updated on the first post? I was kinda expecting an announcement on the next scenarios that are being cut.

[IronWolf]

Masika wrote:

Hi Joshua,

I am just curious as to what you updated on the first post?

He just changed the text stating that the modules (#9, #18, #21) are now retired instead of going to be retired.

[Gary Teter]

MisterSlanky wrote:

I just bought these three modules for my collection and the purchasing interface only notified me that #9 was being retired. I think the interface may not let you know that multiple scenarios are retired if you're buying more than one retired scenario.

The interface does properly warn if buying more than one retired scenario... as long as the products have been flagged properly. :-)

I've fixed the two scenarios that weren't warning correctly. Thanks for the heads-up!

[MisterSlanky]

Gary Teter wrote:

I've fixed the two scenarios that weren't warning correctly. Thanks for the heads-up!

I took the route of: "Of course they couldn't screw up something that obvious. I'll name something else in the database that would be a harder find during testing."

Guess I should just stick with Occam's Razor.

[Tim Statler]

A razor is a slashing weapon not a piercing one. You can't 'stick' with it.

[Darkwolf]

Josh, I'm sure this isn't the kind of question you will actually answer, so I'm really just asking so you know it's being thought of.

I'm starting to run some PFS scenarios for a new group I'm playing with. And something I would REALLY like to do is run a Mists of Mwangi/Voice in the Void 'double feature'. But since this group is starting fresh in Season 1 and will likely do at the most one game night (maybe two scenarios) per month, I don't want to run any Season 0, 1 PA scenarios.

So, really the question/suggestion/hope is that you are planning to make Mists of Mwangi one of the first converted season 0 scenarios. And further more, that it happens relatively soon...?

[Dave the Barbarian]

Wolf - For a new group, it might actually be good to have a 1 PP style scenario as their first so they can get used to the idea of faction missions. Then in Voice in the Void, they get an opportunity for 2 PP. I think they would really enjoy that combo of scenario's. I doubt that anything will happen with Mists of Mwangi in the near future. With Paizo Con and other large Con's looming, deadlines for new scenario's, and other demands; Mists falls pretty far back on the priority list. I have not heard that they intend to revise season 0 adventures and increase Prestige Points. I would be surprised if they did.

Give those adventures a shot and see what your group thinks.

[MisterSlanky]

Dave the Barbarian wrote:

I have not heard that they intend to revise season 0 adventures and increase Prestige Points. I would be surprised if they did.

Josh has made direct comments regarding the "retirement and revision of Season 0 Adventures" on a couple occasions and does not speak directly to it, but infers it earlier in this thread. I think revisions of some scenarios is likely and the poster was thinking Mists of Mwangi would be one of them simply because it's one of the highest rated scenarios.

Mists, Silent Tide, and Frozen Fingers are on my guess list when it comes to think about what they might be converting. You are correct though, we have heard nothing regarding what is actually being converted and when.

[Cpt_kirstov]

Dave the Barbarian wrote:

I have not heard that they intend to revise season 0 adventures and increase Prestige Points. I would be surprised if they did.

While it has been mentioned that they will be updating the season 0 scenarios that don't get retired, It has not been mentioned if doing so will make them a 2PA scenario or not.

Wolf - I've done 1-3 scenarios a month for the past year and a half or so, over half have been season 0 (1 PA) adventures. I don't feel slighted in the least. Remember, the 1PA adventures 90% of the time the PA is easy... where the 2 PA adventures you are only supposed to get both PA on some occasions (thus requiring a decent roll on a skill you may not have).

[Demoyn]

Wolfthulhu wrote:

Josh, I'm sure this isn't the kind of question you will actually answer, so I'm really just asking so you know it's being thought of.

I sure wish I could figure out how to send you a private message withough going through Outlook. :(

[Enevhar Aldarion]

There is no private messaging for these forums, so the only way to contact Josh privately is to email him.

[Darkwolf]

Thanks for the replies all. But I think I left the wrong impression, I'm not wanting to start things off with this double-feature. I just want to run it at some point before they move beyond the appropriate tiers.

Cpt_kristov is right, nothing has been mentioned about upping PA. Guess I was kind of making an assumption. I have personally played/GMd season 0 and season 1 games and have no complaints either, I just don't want to mix seasons with a new group, for entirely personal reasons.

Demoyn, unfortunatly email is the only option here. You can private message me at

Spoiler:

darkwolf71 at gmail

if you want. Or, you can send a PM through ENWorlds system. Also to Darkwolf71.

[Shieldknight]

Cpt_kirstov wrote:

... where the 2 PA adventures you are only supposed to get both PA on some occasions (thus requiring a decent roll on a skill you may not have).

Begin mini rant...

My group has taken exception to this. We understand making one of the PA harder to achieve, but when they become impossible it just upsets and infuriates my players.

For example...

SPOILER:

In the scenario where you go through the maze under Absalom, you need a DC 20 Knowledge (geography) check to map the maze for Cheliax. Or if you are Osirion or Qadira (not sure which), you need a DC 20 Disable Device to get sand from the hourglass.

Now no one, not a single player, had an issue with the high DC. However, just because they happened to be playing a character that didn't, and never would, have the appropriate skill, they were unable to receive the second PA of the scenario. They felt cheated out of a chance to receive the PA. As the rules state, no one can achieve that high of a DC without being trained in those skills. Thier comments were that it felt more like it was all based on luck, whether or not you had the right skill available. Now in the previously mentioned scenario, they didn't even have another character in the party who had taken any of the skills, so they couldn't even have someone from another faction try it for them.

Now before I get stomped on, I understand that the second PA is supposed to be hard to achieve. But there still exists a suggestive nature that there is a chance to get it, when that is definitely not the case.

As to what was mentioned above in the example...

cont'd:

The player who was to map the maze, went out of his way to acquire the proper tools and equipment, even spending gold on a masterwork tool kit for cartography. Then when he said he was going to begin mapping, I asked for a roll. He said that he didn't have the appropriate skill. At which point I told him that he could map it, but it doesn't appear to be a good enough representation and won't work. Said player was ready to throw a fit. Thankfully, he is a reasonable adult and simply played on, even continuing to roleplay and map, though he wasn't going to get the PA. I thank him for that. But in lesser minds it would have been quite a scene at the table.

I would like to suggest that skills that can be used untrained, should be used instead of trained skills. Make the DC high, that's not the issue.

If the writers or Josh could give me a reasonable explanation that I can take to my players, I would greatly appreciate it. And please, don't just say "its supposed to be harder to get." I guess I'm looking for a reason as to why they are set up the way they are, not as to why they are harder.

Rant over. Thanks for reading.

[Darkwolf]

Shieldknight wrote:

Cpt_kirstov wrote:

... where the 2 PA adventures you are only supposed to get both PA on some occasions (thus requiring a decent roll on a skill you may not have).

Begin mini rant...

Pretty far off topic of retiring scenarios. Perhaps a new thread?

Spoiler:

Not that I am entirely unsympathetic. But I think that if a PC normally gets his full PA, a once in a while impossible to get one is acceptable. No one is perfect and all that.

[Tom Baumbach]

Shieldknight wrote:

If the writers or Josh could give me a reasonable explanation that I can take to my players, I would greatly appreciate it. And please, don't just say "its supposed to be harder to get." I guess I'm looking for a reason as to why they are set up the way they are, not as to why they are harder.

I'm neither, but it's been my impression that the hard-to-achieve PA requires the player to think creatively and/or ask for help from the rest of the table (probably to promote role playing).

If that table really didn't have anyone that could reach DC 20 in those skills, then yeah, it is a case of bad luck, but I can't see that happening every time.

[Shieldknight]

Shieldknight wrote:

PA stuff

Discussion taken to a new thread.

[Masika]

I am assuming that there will be more retirements soon... just wondering when the announcement will come. I am organising a few dates with events in mind. Would love to run retiring events.

[TwilightKnight]

It's only two occurances so far, but the trend seems to indicate every other month. If so, expect another retirement announcement after Paizocon for the end of July. Although, I could see Josh waiting until after GenCon to retire any more.

[Darius Silverbolt]

TwilightKnight wrote:

It's only two occurances so far, but the trend seems to indicate every other month. If so, expect another retirement announcement after Paizocon for the end of July. Although, I could see Josh waiting until after GenCon to retire any more.

It means we all need to knock out the Season 0 mods!

[Masika]

Thanks for the heads up... now that you pointed it out it is obvious! (Sorry Josh - I did not mean to spam up the forum boards)

In finding this out, work has decided it need greater access to my gaming time and I do not think I can run as many gaming sessions as I plan. I just want to make sure I run scenarios for my players (home games) so their characters can get credit for them.

[Joshua J. Frost]

I currently have no plans to do any more retirements before Gen Con.

[Tambryn]

Maybe this has been answered before, but I didn't see it in this thread. Why are scenarios being retired?

Tam

[Tambryn]

Nevermind.

Tam

[NotMousse]

Anything new going into retirement before end of year?

[Joshua J. Frost]

As a rule, we don't pre-pre-announce scenario retirements. Should we decide to retire additional season 0 scenarios, we'll use this thread to make the announcement. :-)

[Hyrum Savage]

Hey everyone,

The following scenarios will be retired on 11/15:

PSS # 6: Black Waters
PSS# 11: The Third Riddle
PSS# 12: Stay of Execution
PSS# 19: Skeleton Moon
PSS# 25: Hands of the Muted God

Please make sure that you have played and REPORTED the events by 11/15. Once the scenarios are retired they will be removed from the reporting system.

And... the promised conversion of 3.5 scenarios has now begun!

Hyrum.

[Mark Garringer]

Hyrum Savage wrote:

PSS # 6: Black Waters

I guess it's a good thing I was planning to run this one already this weekend then :)

[Dane Pitchford]

Excellent. Glad that things are proceeding :)

[Charles Evans 25]

Hyrum Savage wrote:

Hey everyone,

The following scenarios will be retired on 11/15:

PSS # 6: Black Waters
PSS# 11: The Third Riddle
PSS# 12: Stay of Execution
PSS# 19: Skeleton Moon
PSS# 25: Hands of the Muted God

Please make sure that you have played and REPORTED the events by 11/15. Once the scenarios are retired they will be removed from the reporting system.

And... the promised conversion of 3.5 scenarios has now begun!

Hyrum.

(edited, tidied up)

When assigning priorities for conversions, is there any chance you could have the shortage of low level scenarios recently written somewhere at the forefront of your mind, please? I don't have the budget to do much PFS myself, but I gather from those that do that the limited current crop of low-level modules is a bit of a nuisance when it comes to bringing in new players with new characters.
Thanks very much.